Hideo Kojima and Women

[ph0b0s123]

Hideo = Japanese
In Japan Sex = major industry selling point.

[Edit]

In UK, 16 = Legal = WIN SAUCE!!!!

Spoiler: Edit 2

MGS4: Naomi upskirt shot and beauty and beasts.
MGSW: x-ray pervert-o-vision.
MGS: rising: ????

Just to add to the list:
MGS1: Merly's pantless sections
MGS1 VR missions: Naomi/Meling photo shoots
MGS2: Locker posters
MGS3: Eva
MGS3: EVA!!!

Could not detect if a sarcastic comment, so just incase...

Yes, UK age of consent is 16.....

but as of 2009, having any media of anyone under 18 (even drawn / imaginary) that is in anyway sexual = kiddie p0rn = jail & sex offenders register. Just saying....


?And it's considerably more progressive than a lot of stuff that comes out of Japan, the country where sex crime is the foundation of the entertainment industry.?

Could not agree more. I love Anime and some parts of Japanese culture. I also understand the whole of Asia's fascination with youth and cuteness. But enough with the rape stuff, already.... especially this idea sold to guys that all those shy cute girls secretly want to be treated that way, no they bloody don't.... If you you are going show that stuff, then at least depict it in a realistic way, 'hopefully' that would turn most people (even Japanese men) off ever watching anything like that again....

Stopped playing MSG after 'Sons of Liberty'. Enjoyed the game (did not see anything echi, but was not looking). Just got fed up with the ending sequence that just went on an on about not very much. Just got too pretentious for my taste....

 

[Desert Tiger]

I was a little weirded out by this too. I love Hideo's work (and yeah, I was a fan of MGS4) but I sort of just stared blankly at the screen and went "wait... what?" when it did the Paz thing. Luckily later on WHEN CERTAIN THINGS WERE REVEALED it became less creepy. So yeah.

Technically, I think the first one was a "medical diagnosis" too. She was meant to be covered in scars or something. I dunno. All I know is that Paz was just about the most annoying character ever.

Instead of these depictions being even marginally related to the story, Kojima instead is openly saying, here's the cutscene and the narrative, but if you feel like seeing some tits or a flash of underwear, press this button. It undermines further what little credibility the series has in the first place.

If you're talking about a game like, for example, Bayonetta, the exploitation is acceptable within the context of the work, because it is a game based around a batshit insane woman whose clothes explode off all the time. That was the unique selling point of the game. But MGS, these are games that are sold on their narrative depth, their conflicted central characters and the unique stealth counter-terrorist gameplay. Jiggling tits and up-skirt camera angles just don't gel with that.

Neither does a monkey in a diaper, though. Or a soldier literally having diarrhoea on screen. Or... you get the picture.

Thing is, MGS is MEANT to be batshit-insane. Ever since the beginning it has been (and don't forget we're talking about a game that breaks the fourth wall almost FLUENTLY, with one of the most in/famous scenes ever as such with Mantis reading your memory card) and it continues to out-do itself at every turn with ridiculousness and weirdness. I don't think it's so much as "oh yeah. We're a serious game. But do this if you can't be bothered with all that sneaking and story stuff". It's a game that mixes seriousness and stupidity like some ridiculous vinegar/oil solution.

Besides, if anything you could say these prompts etc are Easter Eggs. Most games nowadays have Easter Eggs.

 

[SimpleReally]

I haven't read past the first page but did you know that one of the female's last name (cecile)is kojima is really a god.

Also it's possible to have sex with a dude in this game

 

[BlackAura]

Right. I've been known to enjoy a bit of Japanese media, a few games and local cuisine and hell even one of their martial arts. So does this make me some kind of huge bastard?

Moving on, how exactly does one bring about social change that massive? We're talking about a complete shift of expected social roles.

There is one thing I'm reasonably sure of: the average Japanese man, goes to work with same concerns as you and I: "Will I still have a job in six months?", "Can I afford all my payments this month?" etc. They love their spouses, love their children, their parents and so on and so forth.

While I'm firmly of the opinion that anyone who tries to have a stab at sexual assault deserves to get their throat crushed 'neath your heel I'll no more condemn the Japanese as a whole for it than the common man on the street for all the sex crime that happens in Australia.

THANK YOU! I was getting tired of all the "'Cause they're Japanese, amirite?!" hate going on.

 

[ZippyDSMlee]

The reason is boobs, stare at them long enough and you will be broken!!

 

[Birdmad]

While I love pretty ladies a lot, the whole beauty&beast thing pissed me off a bit....
It's like screaming: "you don't care about the character at all, she's just an object. Oh, and we added some data to your twisted fantasies. yay. Enjoy."

Why the hell did they even add a background story to them? They are there only so you can drool over the object you'll never have laying around naked in your sofa. Or cooking dinner for you. Or whatever.

I wonder how it'd be if they changed the b&b girls for male characters! Would their broken story make a difference then? (Besides creating a whole fantasy in your mind that you could "fix" them, like a sink - the damn fantasy that is so damn present on lots of anime and manga as well)
I'm not sure how it'd be, but they definitely wouldn't pose for pictures in sexy positions while wearing a white catsuit, that's for sure.


It pisses me off 'cause, well, it's sexist as hell....

You can have sexy ladies in a game as much as you want to, but you don't need to almost state women are an object made for your sole entertainment, whose bodies matter much more than whatever they've been through...


Ok, sorry.... got a bit angry there ^^'


Sorry for english mistakes. As always, it's not my first language.

 

[Gyrefalcon]

Good point that this "medical examination tool" probably won't come into play for overweight 40 year old men. Somehow I doubt it came into play for 18 year old male athletes either. :/

 

[shadow skill]

While I love pretty ladies a lot, the whole beauty&beast thing pissed me off a bit....
It's like screaming: "you don't care about the character at all, she's just an object. Oh, and we added some data to your twisted fantasies. yay. Enjoy."

Why the hell did they even add a background story to them? They are there only so you can drool over the object you'll never have laying around naked in your sofa. Or cooking dinner for you. Or whatever.

I wonder how it'd be if they changed the b&b girls for male characters! Would their broken story make a difference then? (Besides creating a whole fantasy in your mind that you could "fix" them, like a sink - the damn fantasy that is so damn present on lots of anime and manga as well)
I'm not sure how it'd be, but they definitely wouldn't pose for pictures in sexy positions while wearing a white catsuit, that's for sure.


It pisses me off 'cause, well, it's sexist as hell....

You can have sexy ladies in a game as much as you want to, but you don't need to almost state women are an object made for your sole entertainment, whose bodies matter much more than whatever they've been through...


Ok, sorry.... got a bit angry there ^^'


Sorry for english mistakes. As always, it's not my first language.

Hmm I thought they were rather sad creatures. That you got that from those characters is more likely than not your own fault.

 

[Loonerinoes]

Extra Punctuation: Hideo Kojima and Women

I admit to having a soft spot for the Metal Gear Solid series. They are extremely overwritten and batshit insane, and I will happily say without qualification that Metal Gear Solid 4 was absolutely fucking dreadful

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Well you're right about the "no qualification" part...

For someone who "has a soft spot for the Metal Gear Solid series" you sure like to ***** alot. Why do you even play them at all? If someone goes to a restaurant and find out they don't quite like the food there, the answer isn't to keep going back but simply stop whining and GO TO ANOTHER ONE.

If you don't like the MGS series fine, many other people do. Just simply STOP PLAYING THEM, Have a coke, a smile and a big serving of STFU.

Unlike yourself, critics don't get the luxury of playing just the things they'd like to play. If they did, there wouldn't be that much left for them to criticize now, would there?

 

[Zanaxal]

Oh shit, Yahtzee actually decided to dive deep into what is metal gear solid Storytelling.

I feel armageddon aproaching.

Mgs is fun, the story is exciting.


Mgs 4 however was a explanation that was uncalled for by all the "cough" yahtzee naysayers that wanted every damn thread of the story explained to minute detail.

Which just ended up being some kind of unplayabale everlasting crap cutscene game.

So RIP mgs you outlived yourself. Now the only continuation can be some weird clone saga or back in time travel for the series.

 

[I_am_acting]

this is a game series that comes from japan, do you REALLY need an explanation to understand that yes, their games will be fucked up (as proven by those weird scenes in silent hill 0__0)

 

[baseracer]

Maybe Yatzhee should talk about the dead or alive games...

 

[nipsen]

lol. ..seriously, did no one think it just was hysterically funny when Otacon screams: "get away, get away - she's going to hug you!".

I mean - in the story, the women are actual people. Naomi for example is very feminine, but is still strong enough to do what she wants. Lots of examples of that in Metal Gear.

Instead, the warped thing Kojima makes fun of, imo, is the otakus and complexes about women. All the "peeking" is something you choose to do yourself. Always outside of the actual story.. While you're in the story, the women simply are beautiful, and no more or less exposed or exploited than the men. And what's up with Psycho Mantis..?

I mean, you could easily make the case that the ones who get the shaft in the Metal Gear series is the "sick" culture that exists on the backside of the narrative. And that this really turns into complete overdrive with Peace Walker, in about the same way as the product-placements.

..you can say what you want, but it's.. you know.. possible to play through the series without summing it up as "a series of episodes where women get molested in the worst ways possible, while you can zoom in on their bits".

 

[nipsen]

Thing is, MGS is MEANT to be batshit-insane. Ever since the beginning it has been (and don't forget we're talking about a game that breaks the fourth wall almost FLUENTLY, with one of the most in/famous scenes ever as such with Mantis reading your memory card) and it continues to out-do itself at every turn with ridiculousness and weirdness.

exactly. Juggling in the codex as well - outside the story-flow, where you're gaining psyche by listening to her voice.

 

[Sacman]

Well, a mad genius is a mad genius.

Some mad geniuses try to create earth-quakes with pocket-devices, others want to play doctor with under-aged torture-victims.

I know which category I fit in...and it's not the first...

 

[Monk Ed]

What the heck is up with this article? The MGS series is enormously progressive towards women. Let me make the counter-case:

Objectification is /not/ about how a woman is portrayed during sexy-time, but how she is portrayed at all /other/ times. A lot of women in MGS are shown in their underwear and tight clothes, sure. (Incidentally so are the men but apparently that doesn't count.) But those women are more often than not also fully fleshed out characters with critical roles in the story. Even the B&B had backstories.

Showing a woman in a sexualized manner is not by itself in the least bit denigrating. In fact, quite the opposite, complaining about it is what's denigrating, for it ascribes an inherent defenselessness to women. If anything, there is a distinct correlation between the sexualization of women in a society and sexual equality in that society. It's treating women as sacred untouchable idols that objectifies and denigrates them as people.

Besides, Kojima is totally equal-opportunity. Raiden goes around completely naked in MGS2 for a full level -- after being strapped similarly naked to a torture rack. (If it had been a woman in the exact same situation you can bet Yahtzee would have been all over it in this article.) Snake, in most appearances, has a bulging, distinct package. If you so choose, Snake can go around with his shirt off for the entire game of MGS3. It's fair to say that the proportion of fanservice between genders in MGS is roughly equal to the proportion of genders who play the game.

Kojima is about the most sexually progressive designer out there: He acknowledges that women can be both sexual and people -- and that in fact the two, far from being opposing ideas, serve to strengthen each other.

As for Eva going around with her shirt unzipped... Duh, she was manipulating Snake. That was made pretty obvious.

As for Paz and the B&B and their tragic backstories... A comedian once joked that tortured artists get more chicks than comedians. The point being, 'brokenness' is a kind of flavor that some people like. I see Paz and the B&B as being analogous. So if it's okay for women to go "Aw he's so tortured, it makes me want to hug him... and stuff...", I don't see what's wrong with men going "Aw she's so tortured, it makes me want to hug her... and stuff."

 

[GumbaMasta]

I was on the fence if I should buy Peace Walker, but now, after reading this article I'm determined to get it.

 

[kinapuffar]

The reason women aren't more prominent is because kojima wants to convey the sense that war is still and always has been something men do. Women usually aren't even allowed on the frontlines, and for these spec ops super-soldier kinds of things, it's surprising you see any women at all.
Sure, Kojima could go all politically correct and add an action-girl and make snake not stare at their boobs. But that would come across as fake and forced.
He looks up to The Boss, and that comes across as honest by comparison.


The part where you undress women with the camera is supposed to show that naked snake (big boss) still is, despite being the greatest soldier ever, just a man. And it also shows that he has become so familiar with war that even in the middle of it all he can still ignore it and think about girls.