Hideo Kojima and Women

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Hideo Kojima and Women

Yahtzee plays MGS:peace Walker and asks "What the hell is wrong with Hideo Kojima?"

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Yahtzee Croshaw

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Wasn't really expecting any compliment from a man who so openly despises Kojima's work :p

In all honesty though, the zooming feature was pretty weird. But I'd expect this from any Japanese game that has such a feature, not necessarily Kojima specifically...
 

Cherry Cola

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Well, a mad genius is a mad genius.

Some mad geniuses try to create earth-quakes with pocket-devices, others want to play doctor with under-aged torture-victims.
 

hawk533

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I haven't played all the way through a Metal Gear since MGS2. The storyline took such a left turn during that game that I just couldn't keep interested in the series.
 

oranger

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He's right, of course. Yahtzee, I mean. There's a line between extra bits and pointlessness.
 

qbanknight

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Ooo waiting for some skewering of Kane and Lynch 2 tomorrow.

But Kojima has always had this attitude towards women. In some of the lockers in MGS 2, there were real-life photos of Japanese models in tight swimsuits. You could even get a better look once you hide inside a locker and crouch so you can get the "full effect". Not that it fit with the sissy, pussy-whipped protagonist of that game
 

-|-

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I liked MSG4 - though killing the women bosses was kind of weird, but whatever.

I did laugh at 'slip the leash of editors' though. Oh the irony.
 

Onyx Oblivion

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Ahh...Kojima. He's working with Mercury Steam on the new Castlevania.

I wonder what's going to happen to the women in that?
 

Nazz3

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thetrue13th said:
So he hasn't got to the mission 'A date with Paz' yet...
And completed it with a S rank.

Nor went to the Outer Heaven staff to 'preview' the womens 3D models :p
 

Zhukov

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Well... the predominantly male audience has always ensured that the depiction of women in video games is often far from stellar. So once you add the Japanese element... this sort of thing probably shouldn't come as a surprise.

But yeah, that does sound exceptionally creepy.

Also, I eagerly await the verbal crucifixion of Kane and Lynch 2. That game deserves nothing less.
 

WanderingFool

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Onyx Oblivion said:
Ahh...Kojima. He's working with Mercury Steam on the new Castlevania.

I wonder what's going to happen to the women in that?
...wow... I just got a mental image of that now... and its not that bad.
 

Jhales

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In the special edition of MGS:3, there is a special cut scene mode where it goes through all of the scenes with women in them and you can push a button to see them in their underwear. It's pretty weird.
 

Babitz

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Kojima is a mediocre designer at best. Not to mention how much he "borrows" influence from others. After MGS1, everything went downhill.

Anyway, can't wait to see K&L2 raped by Yahtzee.
 

Phoenix09215

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Secret world leader (shhh) said:
MGS4: Naomi upskirt shot and beauty and beasts.
MGS:pW: x-ray pervert-o-vision.
MGS: rising: ????
Oh God a game with Raiden... I fear for my soul if I can press a button during a cutscene. "shudders"

And also; Naomi upskirt shot? <.<
 

EightGaugeHippo

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Hideo = Japanese
In Japan Sex = major industry selling point.

[Edit]

In UK, 16 = Legal = WIN SAUCE!!!!

Secret world leader (shhh) said:
MGS4: Naomi upskirt shot and beauty and beasts.
MGS:pW: x-ray pervert-o-vision.
MGS: rising: ????
Just to add to the list:
MGS1: Merly's pantless sections
MGS1 VR missions: Naomi/Meling photo shoots
MGS2: Locker posters
MGS3: Eva
MGS3: EVA!!!
 

Dogstile

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Kane and Lynch?

You're going to skewer it?

I love you. Have some tea. Would you like PG tips?
 

Dave Brohman

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Glad I'm not the only one who realizes that Hideo Kojima is twelve flavours of crazy.

The George Lucas comparison is apt beyond simply representing an auteur run amok. Kojima, like Lucas, is riding his name like a surfboard on a seemingly endless wave fanboy adulation engendered by his early work. I find the entire MGS series to be akin to like Lady Gaga or Marmite - products whose popularity is an absolute mystery to me.
 

dead_rebel

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I'm now anticipating the pantsing of a lifetime for Kane and Lynch 2. Should be epic.
 

Lord_Gremlin

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Wow, I couldn't even complete Kane and Lynch 2 demo, it's just too shitty to tolerate. And he played through the entire game - I can't imagine how pissed he must be.

Also, I think I should go buy MGS4. Never played it, and I had PS3 for a long time, almost got to trophy level 13.
 
Jun 7, 2010
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Phoenix09215 said:
Secret world leader (shhh) said:
MGS4: Naomi upskirt shot and beauty and beasts.
MGS:pW: x-ray pervert-o-vision.
MGS: rising: ????
Oh God a game with Raiden... I fear for my soul if I can press a button during a cutscene. "shudders"

And also; Naomi upskirt shot? <.<
Yes, when snake meets her in the hospital, she sits on a bed and he drops his cigarette. Hold L1 and it goes into first person view and snake turns to sneak a peek up there. At least thas how i remember it.
 

kuolonen

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I didn't end up playing much of Peace Walker on my trip, but fortunately I was able to play through the entirety of Kane and Lynch 2 the day after I got back. Much obliged, Io Interactive. Although somehow I doubt you'll return those sentiments after the review.
Ohhohou, this is gonna be good... looking forward for tomorrow.
 

Outright Villainy

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Secret world leader (shhh) said:
Phoenix09215 said:
Secret world leader (shhh) said:
MGS4: Naomi upskirt shot and beauty and beasts.
MGS:pW: x-ray pervert-o-vision.
MGS: rising: ????
Oh God a game with Raiden... I fear for my soul if I can press a button during a cutscene. "shudders"

And also; Naomi upskirt shot? <.<
Yes, when snake meets her in the hospital, she sits on a bed and he drops his cigarette. Hold L1 and it goes into first person view and snake turns to sneak a peek up there. At least thas how i remember it.
Never mind the fact that they plant the camera squarely at chest height whenever she wanders into the scene. And she's not wearing a bra for some reason, and has her lab coat and shirt buttoned down to her navel.
She looks ridiculous!
I mean I can kinda see why they had it for Eva, because she was trying to manipulate him with the sexy, but it was just totally off character in that game.

Mgs was never short on fanservice though, so it's not that surprising...
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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I don't know if I'm willing to call Kojima a good thing because he's a rare video game auteur. It's only because there aren't more of them. If there were, Kojima would probably be derided as a severely uneven writer. For every good idea like the plausible near-future sci-fi of a railgun-launched nuke (and its implications) or Snake struggling with what it means to be a soldier and obey orders from people who may not be trustworthy, there's bullshit like pointless incest storylines or twisty nonsense conspiracies.
 

Thunderhorse31

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I've found the odd sexist vibe tough to overcome at points as well, especially in MGS4.

<spoiler=Just in case someone here hasn't played MGS4, though I doubt it>Besides the obvious insanity of the boss fights, I was surprised that I didn't feel bad about Naomi dying, at all. I guess it had something to do with the fact that her and Snake's relationship had progressed from innocent flirting in MGS, to backstabbing, to the unbelievability of her helping both sides without being noticed, to the whole "Press L1 to stare at her boobs or look up her skirt" scenes. It's just silly. As were her reasons/circumstances for killing herself.

"I'm being kept alive by medical advances, how terrible, boo hoo..." *click*

Seriously? I didn't feel remotely sympathetic during that scene, though I got the impression they were trying to force me to feel that way. Contrivance be damned!

Anyway, I'm amused by the fact that even genius scientists are made to walk around with their shirts unbuttoned for your viewing pleasure. As if you might be tempted to respect this individual as a person, here are tits to remind you "Oh, it's a woman."
 

Forgetitnow344

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I've always loved this exact thing about Kojima's work. MGS manages to combine beautiful story-telling, compelling characters, and an enthralling plot while still maintaining a fantastic sense of humor and several little Easter Eggs that are so ridiculous I have to love them. Haha, I remember when I put my controller down during a codec call with my lovely shrink. Suddenly, her boobs jiggled! All I could think was, "No way. That can't be real." Sure enough, Sixaxis made her boobs jiggle. I know everyone else knew all about this a long time ago, but I had avoided info about MGS4 like the plague.
 

snowman6251

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I'll admit that sometimes the story in the Metal Gear series gets a little wonky and frequently do cutscenes run on too long but I can't help but love the series. I like the characters, as overly verbose as they are, and I really like the gameplay, particularly in 4. Not enough games have stealth elements, let alone stealth elements that don't amount to "Wait til enemy patrols past corner. Run behind his back to other shadow".

I'm also really looking forward to Rising for entirely unrelated reasons. That trailer had the coolest sword combat I've ever seen.
 

dangitall

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Nazz3 said:
thetrue13th said:
So he hasn't got to the mission 'A date with Paz' yet...
And completed it with a S rank.

Nor went to the Outer Heaven staff to 'preview' the womens 3D models :p
Right now I am suprised that some humans out there are doing that, and proudly annoucing such a disgraceful thing.
[sub][sub]Do you get any new weapons after that?[/sub][/sub]
 
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Outright Villainy said:
Secret world leader (shhh) said:
Phoenix09215 said:
Secret world leader (shhh) said:
MGS4: Naomi upskirt shot and beauty and beasts.
MGS:pW: x-ray pervert-o-vision.
MGS: rising: ????
Oh God a game with Raiden... I fear for my soul if I can press a button during a cutscene. "shudders"

And also; Naomi upskirt shot? <.<
Yes, when snake meets her in the hospital, she sits on a bed and he drops his cigarette. Hold L1 and it goes into first person view and snake turns to sneak a peek up there. At least thas how i remember it.
Never mind the fact that they plant the camera squarely at chest height whenever she wanders into the scene. And she's not wearing a bra for some reason, and has her lab coat and shirt buttoned down to her navel.
She looks ridiculous!
I mean I can kinda see why they had it for Eva, because she was trying to manipulate him with the sexy, but it was just totally off character in that game.

Mgs was never short on fanservice though, so it's not that surprising...
I never noticed the camera placement.

Also, i just remembered that when talking to rosemary in the codec, shaking the sixaxis makes her boobs jiggle.
 

jamescorck

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Yeah, but what can you expect from a game series when the first instalment of it included a part where you had to check the ass of enemies in order to identify who was wagging it side to side? Because, you know, she was a girl and so wasn't trying to infiltrate with the enemy or anything.

Looking forward to Kane and Lynch 2! Let's see what an honest person thinks about it.
 

kintaris

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I think it's not just the simple fact that there is a hell of a lot of female exploitation in the games, which, sadly, is true of many others. It's the way that Kojima makes you the pervert, and gives you the opportunity, should you choose to take it, to become a peeping Tom. He does this by putting almost all the 'sexiest' shots into an alternative viewpoint, if you press the view button at the right time.

Instead of these depictions being even marginally related to the story, Kojima instead is openly saying, here's the cutscene and the narrative, but if you feel like seeing some tits or a flash of underwear, press this button. It undermines further what little credibility the series has in the first place.

If you're talking about a game like, for example, Bayonetta, the exploitation is acceptable within the context of the work, because it is a game based around a batshit insane woman whose clothes explode off all the time. That was the unique selling point of the game. But MGS, these are games that are sold on their narrative depth, their conflicted central characters and the unique stealth counter-terrorist gameplay. Jiggling tits and up-skirt camera angles just don't gel with that.

Neither does a monkey in a diaper, though. Or a soldier literally having diarrhoea on screen. Or... you get the picture.

Looking forward to Lynch getting a Kaneing. Yeah, I went there.
 

Jaebird

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Women and young girls with fucked up backgrounds, some of which get turned into super-weapons? That sounds an awful lot like Elfen Lied.* And it's just about as coherent as MGS.

*A friend forced me to watch all of that depressing series. I really wish I can un-watch it.
 

Zer0Saber

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Did anyone listen to the tape of the lesbian lotion rubdown in Peace Walker? That's not a joke, that's in the game.
 

Jared

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Pretty much what I expected from Yahtzee, but, also fairly honest too...well, to be expected when you done like Kojima as it is, heh
 

Raithnor

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To be fair: Yes, Lucas did put Leia in a metal bikini (which became iconic in its own right) but Lucas didn't have the camera "molest" her the way Kojima, Team Ninja, and Michael Bay (see TF:ROTF first scene with Mikayla) seem to.
 

Caliostro

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Sinclose said:
Wasn't really expecting any compliment from a man who so openly despises Kojima's work :p
He never said he despised him, he said his writting/story telling is absolute crap. Which it is. From what I gather the gameplay in MGS4 is excellent... It's a shame you get to experience about 2/3 hours of it between 10 hours of cinematics exposing the horribly overwritten and contrived piece of tripe that is the MGS4 story.

That said...

I didn't end up playing much of Peace Walker on my trip, but fortunately I was able to play through the entirety of Kane and Lynch 2 the day after I got back. Much obliged, Io Interactive. Although somehow I doubt you'll return those sentiments after the review.
Oh...this will be good.
 

ImBigBob

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Interesting to read about your thoughts on the MGS universe, and I was honestly surprised that you like the series as much as you do. I considered getting a PSP for Peace Walker, though I don't think there's enough on the system to fully justify the purchase.

Also, do you HAVE to review every crappy generic FPS/TPS that comes out? Dead to Rights, Kane & Lynch, Singularity, Battlefield: Bad Company 2, AvP, the list goes on and on. There are other genres out there, you know.
 

TheGreenManalishi

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Peace Walker had a lot of sexually screwed up female characters whose only role is to flirt with Snake in the briefing files and show how much of a player he is.

Even though he eats raw animals and had his balls cooked in a nuclear explosion.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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You know, technically you don't have to kill the B&B corps. I've yet to kill a single one of them, all are tranqed. And that's whats nice about his games. You are allowed to play as offensively as you like, and how you go about it is up to you. Personally I couldn't bring myself to kill those poor lasses, so I merely put them to sleep.



that... and there's rewards for doing it too...
 

Dectilon

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I remember seeing a bit of an interview with Kojima (I think it was on Gamecenter CX). I don't remember the exact wording, but part of it went something like this:

*Kojima turns to his female co-worker*
- How long have we been dating now?
- ...We're not dating.
*Quiet for a few seconds*
- Well, you've been here so long that I consider us a pair by now.

I get the feeling Kojima has deeper issues than most think.

To me it just seems like japanese society as a whole is ill. The sexuality stuff is one thing, but this idea that seems ingrained into the japanese mindset about men and women and the relation between the sexes seems like it's from another age entirely. Metroid: Other M (M Other, oh, how clever :p) seems to be a good example of that. Metroid wasn't selling well in japan, so they tried to lure the native audience back in by saying: Oh, were you intimidated by this silent, strong woman? Then I'm sure you'll be glad to know that she's secretly a weak, frail, weepy and insecure little girl who's totally dependent on a man!

Kojima is creepy and doesn't know when to stop, but that bit, the purely sexual bit, isn't the important one.

edit: I'd also like to add that the first bit of this feature was possibly the most pretentious hipster shit I've read all week. I think it's time to tone down the Yathzee persona bit, dude.
 

zelda2fanboy

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Did anyone else have to look up the word "cagoule?" Is that an English thing? I've never heard it before and I'm not 100% sure how to pronounce it. Also, can't stand Metal Gear. Played 1 and 2 and hated them. They always seem to be trying to slavishly recreate MSX gameplay in 3D. However, the weird sex stuff was about all I enjoyed in the games. I'm surprised we haven't had playable fully nude women yet. Or maybe a gun that rips off the clothes of female guards. That would be sweet.
 

ZetaAnime

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I dont think theres anything wrong with Hideo Kojima i mean come on its japan. It would be normal there cause i mean where else can you find hentai selling on the streets in public, On the streets were everyone can see it. Unlike here thats normal. So let him do what he does cause the metal gear series is a good series even if they use women like that >.>
TIMBAP_AJR
 

Caliostro

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Sinclose said:
Caliostro said:
Sinclose said:
Wasn't really expecting any compliment from a man who so openly despises Kojima's work :p
He never said he despised him, he said his writting/story telling is absolute crap.
I said his work, not the man himself.
Ok, go back and read my post again.
 

BrownGaijin

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Wow. I've always known about the fan service Easter Eggs, but to strip a victimized 16 year old down to her skivvies? Wow. That's just wrong.

Jbird said:
Women and young girls with fucked up backgrounds, some of which get turned into super-weapons? That sounds an awful lot like Elfen Lied.* And it's just about as coherent as MGS.

*A friend forced me to watch all of that depressing series. I really wish I can un-watch it.
Actually I didn't even think about that until you mentioned it. I can't believe you sat through the entire series. I was barely able to watch the abridged version of it.

Yahtzee Croshaw said:
So yes, I had a lovely holiday, not that anyone asked.
Oh I'm sorry to hear that. If I had known how to contact you I would've asked. So Yahtzee you magnificent stallion with potent ancestors, how was the food?
 

The_ModeRazor

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Hey, it's Japanese. Be thankful that at no point in the series did you have to commit sexual crimes against women in a quick-time event.
Wait, I didn't play any of the games. But it would've probably been mentioned in the comments if it happened.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Caliostro said:
Sinclose said:
Caliostro said:
Sinclose said:
Wasn't really expecting any compliment from a man who so openly despises Kojima's work :p
He never said he despised him, he said his writting/story telling is absolute crap.
I said his work, not the man himself.
Ok, go back and read my post again.
Uh huh. I read it first time around as well.
I still don't see what you're getting at. I never said Yahtzee despised Kojima, I said he despised his work. You made it sound as though I said Yahtzee despised Kojima, which I never inferred. Heck, he even said in this here article that it's a rare thing to have a creator in the games industry intimately attached to his franchise, so it'd be a pretty stupid thing to say.

I never said anything that would warrant the statement you made in the 1st place :-/
 

Celtic_Kerr

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Glad yahtzee enjoyed his vacation.

But comeone, it's Hideo, the dude is bat shit fucking insane. He has a weird way of portraying women, but what do you expect from the culture that created tentacle porn to get around the "you're not allowed to display penises on the screen" rule
 

Dody16

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"And it's considerably more progressive than a lot of stuff that comes out of Japan, the country where sex crime is the foundation of the entertainment industry"

As someone who grew up in Japan, I have to say that it's sad how true this statement is.

...

(sigh)

Good stuff Yahtzee.
 

coldfrog

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If I didn't know better than to directly connect his real personality with his ZP video personality, I'd think that this article is amusing considering how Yahtzee's been attacked for the comments he makes about women in his ZP videos.

Otherwise, it's amusing in its own right. I played through the first two games a few times and thoroughly enjoyed them, but Kojima is without a doubt, totally nuts.

And if we asked him about how his vacation was, doesn't that make us just more than a little creepy? Just saying.
 

Indignation837

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Hey now Yahtzee, that's not fair. I had every intention of asking how your vacation was in the comments - not that you'd reply - but you never gave me the chance. Anyway, I can't say I've ever played through an MGS game, but I'll take your word for it. We are also talking about the country that makes JRPGs after all, where 90% of female characters are shy and may as well have a tattoo on their forehead that reads "Please fall in love with me, main character".
 

Randall92

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Spoiler for Peace Walker ahead:


It might be wise to add that the girl in question is revealed to be in her twenties for the typical end game twist. But yeah it is a bit creepy without knowing that.
 

ForensicYOYO

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Im not sure what to say. But maybe he has a fetish for beautiful sexy women who get abused. Wait. . . ewww eww EWWW! I really dont want to think about what hes thinking alone in bed all night. Off that note, I did send you a message hoping you best on your trip so you cant say no one asked. :D
 

Canadamus Prime

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So let me get this straight, in Metal Gear Solid: Peacewalker in the middle of, what I presume, is a serious cutscene, you get a magic prompt to strip the female characters and ogle them?
I don't know about anyone else, but I'd never be able to take the game seriously after seeing something like that.

Anyway so Yahtzee, I guess we can look forward to your review of Kane and Lynch 2 on Wednesday?
 

Akalistos

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canadamus_prime said:
So let me get this straight, in Metal Gear Solid: Peacewalker in the middle of, what I presume, is a serious cutscene, you get a magic prompt to strip the female characters and ogle them?
No, you get to strip a 14 year old girl to her underwear for no F'in reason. I thought they did it to show scars on her (being tortured and kept prisoner) but i restart the game and there's nothing to see. And I play the game with a connector to a 32'' Flat screen HD TV. There's no way i could have miss them even if i wanted to.
 

Amerikhan

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I actually, sadly, haven't enjoyed MGS since the first for PC. I bought 3 for PS2 and really didn't like it.
 

Akalistos

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Zer0Saber said:
Did anyone listen to the tape of the lesbian lotion rubdown in Peace Walker? That's not a joke, that's in the game.
I heard how Strangelove gave bath to That bird chick every so often, and how she was so gentle.
 

Kogashi

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Personally I disagree with the idea that Kojima has anything 'wrong' between him and weapon. Simply because he includes women as enemies in some games, or 70% naked through out most of the game, or heaven forbid have some kind of social comment on what has happened to civilians through out the world because of wars does not, in my view, mean he has any issues with women...

I cannot speak for the zoom-in feature nor the dating sequence for I haven't played Peace Walker. However, I found it impressive that he would even have female bosses between metal gear 1-3. True while Sniper Wolf's main point could be seen as to die, or make us worry about the girl following us around, her death was also use to feel for Otacon, to for just a second, give the sense that he had balls and though about more than Just anime and giant robots.

As for Fortune... Well... in general 2 was a bit odd so I didn't give the bosses in 2 any thought as in to what they were actually there for aside from being a kind of terrorist group... Though I really don't see a problem with Snake/Raiden finding and using 'girly mags' to distract guards.

3... The whole thing is a lamp shading of most of those 'I'm a guy that women just seem to take their clothes off around me for no good reason' style spy movie, of course Eve's gonna have her jump suit zipped down to basically her crotch. As for The Joy and her baby issues, while I know I cannot fully explain what is trying to be said about sending a woman who was heavily pregnant, I do know that the scar she had from having the baby taken away was just suppose to be symbolic, since it's a snake... And you're snake... and the game's Snake Eater... and so on.

Finally what little I have played of 4, I really thought they was just trying to grip at her emotional heart strings in that, while we are fighting animal women gone insane, is the fact that they are insane because, big shocker, bad things happen to good people when wars break out. I'm sure that, while not becoming exactly this insane and well armed, how mentally, physically, and emotionally tortured these women were, and how crazy they turned are not that far off from how some real women ended up.

... course those are just my views I could be completely wrong and both I and Kojima have terrible, terrible issues with women who knows.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Akalistos said:
canadamus_prime said:
So let me get this straight, in Metal Gear Solid: Peacewalker in the middle of, what I presume, is a serious cutscene, you get a magic prompt to strip the female characters and ogle them?
No, you get to strip a 14 year old girl to her underwear for no F'in reason. I thought they did it to show scars on her (being tortured and kept prisoner) but i restart the game and there's nothing to see. And I play the game with a connector to a 32'' Flat screen HD TV. There's no way i could have miss them even if i wanted to.
And the difference being... what?
 

Caliostro

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Jan 23, 2008
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Sinclose said:
Uh huh. I read it first time around as well.
I still don't see what you're getting at. I never said Yahtzee despised Kojima, I said he despised his work. You made it sound as though I said Yahtzee despised Kojima, which I never inferred. Heck, he even said in this here article that it's a rare thing to have a creator in the games industry intimately attached to his franchise, so it'd be a pretty stupid thing to say.

I never said anything that would warrant the statement you made in the 1st place :-/
You're being pedantic, and in the process missing the point entirely.

tl;dr: He never said he hated the man's work, only his atrocious writing. Kojima's work is more than his writing.
 

Gigaguy64

Special Zero Unit
Apr 22, 2009
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Iv never played a MGS game even though i knew Kojima was insane.

But i never knew he was THIS insane.

Wow......i doubt ill be getting Peace Walker just because i don't have the Cash for a PsP, and i don't think ill play any MGS game until i move out.
 

Axeli

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Because I know someone has or will defend the Beauty&Beast bosses from MGS4 with some rambling about the mixture of their extreme emotional trauma and utter hotness is supposed to be a really creepy combination:

Bullshit.

The camera is glued on their asses (even while they fricking die), they act sexually (in a really corny sense) and they do so without any real creepiness thrown into it (I mean, okay they do still attack Snake like that... By hugging and fondling him. And they are not something that poses any real threat once the fight comes to that point).
But most of all, the goddamn easter eggs. Once you see those there's no way you can believe the developers took the characters so seriously they'd think the business at hand was so dark that it'd out-weight the fanservice.

Even if it was more than just a poor excuse, it failed horribly at whatever point it was trying to make. And if it indeed was trying to shame us for ogling at objectified women in the same manner the game occasionally does with violence, it was the most hypocritical message ever considering where it was coming from.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Caliostro said:
Sinclose said:
Uh huh. I read it first time around as well.
I still don't see what you're getting at. I never said Yahtzee despised Kojima, I said he despised his work. You made it sound as though I said Yahtzee despised Kojima, which I never inferred. Heck, he even said in this here article that it's a rare thing to have a creator in the games industry intimately attached to his franchise, so it'd be a pretty stupid thing to say.

I never said anything that would warrant the statement you made in the 1st place :-/
You're being pedantic, and in the process missing the point entirely.

tl;dr: He never said he hated the man's work, only his atrocious writing. Kojima's work is more than his writing.
Ah, so this is where we viewed things differently.
I said his work because although only his writing was mentioned, Yahtzee claimed dislike for the mechanics of the MGS franchise as a whole, although not necessarily within ZP. For example, he hated the emphasis on gunplay(that he disliked as well) in MGS4 despite this being an 'espionage adventure' and the last mission of Snake. His review of MGS4, as one example, mentions more than the writing as a negative factor. Granted I don't know what he thinks of Kojima's games outside MGS(have no idea if he even played them), but his dislike of Kojima's work expands to more than his writing.

I was being pretty broad when I said that, I'll admit. I merely believe he hates more than just the writing in Kojima's work. When his dislike expands to gameplay also I think it encompasses dislike of the breadth of Kojima's work, although I can see where you're coming from.

It's cool though, apologies for having missed the earlier point you were trying to get across. I admit I overflew it, and also could have done a better job of making a more specific statement ^_^
 

Knight Templar

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Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Plus, being English, I felt uncomfortable knowing I was probably related to someone who'd done a massacre there once.
Is that better or worse than being a Queenlander, and knowing that the last ansestor who visited might have done so to collect some slaves.
But I guess you're both huh?

[sup]Not from Queensland myself[/sup]
 

zombi2989

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How stoked are you that Duke Nukem Forever is really happening and that you'll get a chance to review it for real?
 

Diddy_Mao

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Well at least his attitude towards women is still better than Frank Miller, a man who has yet to realize that the word Woman and the word Whore are not interchangeable.

Playing Devil's advocate I will say that Kojima has frequently said that he sees the Metal Gear Solid series as his version of a James Bond story. And James Bond movies have never had the most progressive attitude towards their female characters.
In fact their cartoonishly lascivious femme fatales are one of the trademarks of the franchise.

On the other hand I'm not going to try to defend Kojima's sanity in any way, the man is completely off his nut.
If you decide that your Military adventure game needs Psychic Ghosts, Russian Pyromantic Cosmonauts and a crazy Bee Man you have clearly lost your mind.
 

Caliostro

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Jan 23, 2008
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Sinclose said:
Ah, so this is where we viewed things differently.
I said his work because although only his writing was mentioned, Yahtzee claimed dislike for the mechanics of the MGS franchise as a whole, although not necessarily within ZP. For example, he hated the emphasis on gunplay(that he disliked as well) in MGS4 despite this being an 'espionage adventure' and the last mission of Snake. His review of MGS4, as one example, mentions more than the writing as a negative factor. Granted I don't know what he thinks of Kojima's games outside MGS(have no idea if he even played them), but his dislike of Kojima's work expands to more than his writing.

I was being pretty broad when I said that, I'll admit. I merely believe he hates more than just the writing in Kojima's work. When his dislike expands to gameplay also I think it encompasses dislike of the breadth of Kojima's work, although I can see where you're coming from.

It's cool though, apologies for having missed the earlier point you were trying to get across. I admit I overflew it, and also could have done a better job of making a more specific statement ^_^
He did say he disliked MGS4 as a whole, particularly because it moved away from stealth and mostly into "bad action" terrain. But still, "wouldn't have been that bad if we actually got to PLAY the game" was the feeling I got from his MGS review.

From my point of view, Yahtzee seems to appreciate the earlier titles's gameplay. I admit I'm not the biggest MGS fan in the world, but the series seems to have moved further and further away from the "stealth" aspect and into "sneak around...long enough to kill everything!" mode.
 

Azure-Supernova

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Hmmmm, well the dilemma here is that the choice is down to you. Snake has always been shown to have love for the ladies, I guess you get some cutscenes in two views:

The 'actual' cutscene where we listen to Roy Campbell or Otacon or Liquid.
The actual cutscene which shows us where Snake's attention is really aimed.

You don't have to undress Paz, but you can if you want to delve into Big Boss' deeply hidden perversive thoughts.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Diddy_Mao said:
Well at least his attitude towards women is still better than Frank Miller, a man who has yet to realize that the word Woman and the word Whore are not interchangeable.
The best example of this is Linkara's review of All Star Batman and Robin, when he comments on the script issued by Miller...
 

ProtoChimp

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Here's something weird you guys might not believe: Japan, the same country which damn near idolises rape, has the lowest rape rate in the world last time I checked. Seriously.

And I wonder what he will say about that scene in K&L2 where they run through the streets naked.
 

RTR

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Good to hear you had fun.
So...any thoughts on the reappearance of Duke Nukem Forever?
 

Gralian

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So... you're going to completely overlook the incredibly controversial 600-comment clusterfuck of the last article to do with the term 'gamer'? I expected at least some sort of venerable defence against folks who disagreed with you for that article.

I did envy your holiday, though. The most i did was go to Norfolk - hooray. And i hope you lynch Kane & Lynch 2 tomorrow, i really do. I can't stand IPs that live long past their sell-by date, particularly incredibly shoddy ones that weren't even that popular to begin with and never deserved a sequel. I'd also like you to tear apart Army of Two 40th Day and Crackdown 2 when you get the chance. They also fill this criteria.
 

civver

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ProtoChimp said:
Here's something weird you guys might not believe: Japan, the same country which damn near idolises rape, has the lowest rape rate in the world last time I checked. Seriously.
Who here's willing to bet a lot is unreported?
 

TheMadDoctorsCat

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Babitz said:
Kojima is a mediocre designer at best. Not to mention how much he "borrows" influence from others. After MGS1, everything went downhill.

Anyway, can't wait to see K&L2 raped by Yahtzee.
Yeah, see I'm not sure if a "spoiler warning" for that last bit might have been a happy warning, or the most redundant addition to a text since the long-forgotten eleventh commandment was written a couple of thousand years ago ("Thou shall not spoon"). Let's just say that I wasn't expecting him to call it a masterpiece.
 

ilion

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I only liked the first one, and i dont think it went to much overboard in that one, but yeah sex sells. Kojima probably wanted to be born a girl or something, just see the amount of attention he gives to Raiden jezz.
 

silversnake4133

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Meh, Hideo seems to be just another designer in the still male-dominated industry of the gaming world. Seriously why does every game like that have to resort to sexually demeaning women? Yeah, we have boobs, so what? If you guys like them so much, why don't you get your own? I can guarantee that you'll get tired of them after the first few days. They aren't really that great, especially when you have kids. But oh well... there are just some things you can't beat out of a dead horse. Or in this case an entire industry of like-minded people.

I hope you enjoyed your holiday Yahtzee. :] Welcome back.
 

Retardinator

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Yahtzee Croshaw said:
So yes, I had a lovely holiday, not that anyone asked.
Of course I didn't. And I don't care. I want my weekly dose of shits and giggles.
And a Mafia 2 review.

Oh god it's gonna get bloody tomorrow with KL2...
 

Nomanslander

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Hmmm, all I got from that is I need to youtube or google image some MGS: Peace Walker scenes, and I should enjoy Yahtzee tearing K&L2 a new asshole tomorrow....thanks Yahtzee, you're the best!=D

Zer0Saber said:
Did anyone listen to the tape of the lesbian lotion rubdown in Peace Walker? That's not a joke, that's in the game.
Oh thank you! I'll start with that first...=D
 

bawkbawkboo1

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Christ, that's just the beginning of this particular rabbit hole. did you see the promotional shots for Peace Walker?

http://www.kotaku.com.au/2010/05/sexy-time-with-metal-gear-solid-peace-walker/
 

For.I.Am.Mad

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I think Kojima's gay. If not then he's just a typical dude who hides his fear of women through lame in-jokes, exploitation, and misogyny. But I really think he's gay. There's just too much.....stuff in his games. And everybody just plays it off as wacky Japanese humor. I don't think so, I think he's telling us something. Doesn't Snake hide in the closet a lot? 'Duh, those are lockers, duh' Same difference.

And Raiden, come on. Dude's gay. And don't forget Zone of Enders. The cockpit? FLLLAAAAAMING, HELLOOOOOOOOOO! Or not.....maybe I'm gay for thinking he's gay.
 

Shippy

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Apr 14, 2010
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i would like to ease Yahtzee's conscience somewhat by pointing out that it's not that likely that his relatives ever directly massacre anyone.

just gave them syphilis.

rule britainia we will literally f**k you to death
 

BobisOnlyBob

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Nov 29, 2007
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The major thing I've noticed about Hideo Kojima's female characters is their propensity for talking. And talking. And talking. And talking some more. And then just when you think they've stopped talking and the cutscene is over, they talk some freaking more! Every single female character is a walking exposition dump. Well, I suppose all Kojima's characters are, but the women get stuck with it more often.
 

aaron552

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Axeli said:
Even if it was more than just a poor excuse, it failed horribly at whatever point it was trying to make. And if it indeed was trying to shame us for ogling at objectified women in the same manner the game occasionally does with violence, it was the most hypocritical message ever considering where it was coming from.
I'd like to see a game that actually does this (non-hypocritically). I doubt it will be a MGS game, though.
 

daftnoize

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MGS1 was the first game I ever truely really LOVED so the series really has a fondness in my heart. But even i can admit MGS4 wasn't perfect... at all. However all the rubbish about the psp being the inferior handheld. Really? For someone who despises nintendo knockoff series rehashes so much. I don't want to do bloody maths on my console I want to play patapon, gitaroo man, Wipeout. You know games which run on a previous generation console they're still making games for it was so good. I love my psp and see no faults with it.

Looking forward to Kane get Lynched!
 

blalien

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Anybody remember Meryl from the first MGS? She was conditioned into losing her sexual attraction to men, but they never explain why they did this to her or why they didn't do it to anybody else. And she ends up falling in love with Snake anyway. I was weirded out.
 

Silver Patriot

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thetrue13th said:
So he hasn't got to the mission 'A date with Paz' yet...
I thought it was a bit weird, but there is one with Kaz as well. So it balances out. I least . . . I think it does.
 

moosek

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At least he's not Itagaki. That dude is hopelessly crazy, as opposed to Kojima's relatively mild eccentricities.

Until we hear about Kojima sexually harassing any female (or male) interns, we can rest assured that Japan's game industry has worse people running it.
 

Tom Phoenix

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While I agree that Kojima is completely insane (although, you have to be in order to be a genius), I don't think it's fair to compare him to George Lucas. At least Kojima's work didn't suck from the get go.

That said, it certainly does sound like Kojima has been treating the female characters worse with each new title....MGS 3 being considered a prime example.

 

Not G. Ivingname

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Yahtzee Croshaw said:
I assume then that MGS: Peace walker won't get a full review?

Hmm... Ok.

I personally would like to see you rip Kane and Lynch: The 4 hour Youtube video expansion pack 2
 

MeTheMe

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Ah, sounds like a nice time was had on vaction, except for the PSP buisness.

Me, I've never completed a MG game, I got about half way through Solid before I had to return it, but it does sound like his perversions are leaking... flowing... flooding, into his game design. I've never had much of a problem with perversions, but putting them into your job, whish millions of people across the world will play? Bad form.
 

Supp

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From the mgs wiki:

During development of Metal Gear Solid 4, Hideo Kojima wanted the Beauty and the Beast Unit to be naked, though this would have severely affected the game's censorship rating. Yoji Shinkawa stated that the motion capture actors were asked to do the motion capture nude, though this could also not be used in the game.
 

beema

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I can't f'ing wait for you to shit all over Kane & Lynch.

As for this topic -- is it really any different then how women are treated/depicted in almost every other video game?? It's got more of a weird Japanese spin on it, but that's to be expected. You are basically combining Kojima's noted insanity with the average hyper-sexualized depiction of chicks in video games. The result isn't very surprising to me.

Meryl was a strong admirable female character though... except for when she was pining over Snake like a schoolgirl and busy being helpless and needing rescue, and undergoing some kind of torturous pain.. oh wait.
 

Antonio Torrente

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Indignation837 said:
Hey now Yahtzee, that's not fair. I had every intention of asking how your vacation was in the comments - not that you'd reply - but you never gave me the chance. Anyway, I can't say I've ever played through an MGS game, but I'll take your word for it. We are also talking about the country that makes JRPGs after all, where 90% of female characters are shy and may as well have a tattoo on their forehead that reads "Please fall in love with me, main character".
do you like golden sun?
 

Judgement101

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Yay! Kane and Lynch 2! Maybe someone wll actually not say its awful.

OT: I laughted at the "Oh, it's medical" part.
 

Something Amyss

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This really is more of a "what's wrong with the industry" question, though I do wonder what is wrong with Kojima.
 

Zer0Saber

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Akalistos said:
Zer0Saber said:
Did anyone listen to the tape of the lesbian lotion rubdown in Peace Walker? That's not a joke, that's in the game.
I heard how Strangelove gave bath to That bird chick every so often, and how she was so gentle.
I was taking about the recording that Paz makes about Strangelove giving her a topless rubdown, it's a bit detailed.
 

Nouw

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I wonder what would happen if a woman played one of these games...

Seriously, there is a fine line between extra bits of goodness and extra bits of pointlessness to express his insanity.
 

Mcupobob

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Glad you're back Yahtzee, and that your vaction was good. Also great artical, though I disagree with the oversexulaztion. I mean it is there clearly but Hideo oversexualise both men and women. Something you don't see often in games, if the writting were to clear up and the stealth go back to the mgs three days then I think we would have a even more solid series.
 

Bloodeye

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Kane and Lynch 2? Nuts. I was hoping for a verbal mauling of Metroid: Other M/Metroid Prime retrospective.
 

Caradinist

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I have to say i agree though. Even before Metal Gear Solid's popularity, games like Snatcher had things you wouldn't see in any other game.

I don't even like the Metal Gear Solid series past number 2, but you have to admit, they give alot of attention to detail, as well as completely different problem solving methods you wouldn't see in any other game.

Even if some of the problems you have to solve are completely over the top and insane.
 

docbox1567

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MGS4 let you zoom in on a cutscene. I thought it was so creepy those times that when there was a woman on screen the camera would zoom in by itself. The fun of having the ability to zoom in makes you feel like a perv zooming in on someone's breasts. When the game does it for you then it makes me feel like I'm sitting next to an even bigger pervert. It aslo makes me think that all the female models were nude when they did their job. People really should be calling him out on being such a perv. It's really getting out of hand, unless you like that kind of thing.
 

Android2137

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docbox1567 said:
I thought it was so creepy those times that when there was a woman on screen the camera would zoom in by itself. The fun of having the ability to zoom in makes you feel like a perv zooming in on someone's breasts. When the game does it for you then it makes me feel like I'm sitting next to an even bigger pervert.
That made me laugh. Thanks for that. And it sounds like the same kind of reaction I get when I see sex scenes in movies. I feel like I'm intruding on something I shouldn't and I'm not allowed the option of respecting privacy.
 

SL33TBL1ND

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Last sentence = Zing! And yes, Hideo is fucked up, but he makes good games though.
 

Numina Infuscata

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And don't forget to then phone Otacon or Rose while you were "kissing" the pictures...
Then you got a rather disturbing Codec call =D
 

nightwolf667

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And some people wonder why A) most girls don't play video games, B) Girls get offended by video games, and C) gamers get (whether they deserve it or not) the reputation of being gigantic pervs while society judges. Yet unfortunately, games get a worse rap for being violent than they do for exploiting female bodies (and have the girls do a strip tease show). Well, they do that everywhere else in this culture anyway, so I shouldn't be surprised.

Then, guys complain about women having rights, being touchy, or being feminist.

As a woman I get that in the "clothes removing x-ray gaze" from men when I walk down the street, honestly Kojima I don't need to come home and find it in my recreational entertainment. But then again, you're a Japanese man. I should probably just find a crow bar, beat you over the head and call it a day.
 

Akalistos

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canadamus_prime said:
Akalistos said:
canadamus_prime said:
So let me get this straight, in Metal Gear Solid: Peacewalker in the middle of, what I presume, is a serious cutscene, you get a magic prompt to strip the female characters and ogle them?
No, you get to strip a 14 year old girl to her underwear for no F'in reason. I thought they did it to show scars on her (being tortured and kept prisoner) but i restart the game and there's nothing to see. And I play the game with a connector to a 32'' Flat screen HD TV. There's no way i could have miss them even if i wanted to.
And the difference being... what?
Pedophilia! Why the hell do you need that sequence in a game, really. As much as he Yahtzee says you can "zoom" through clothes, there's only 2 instance. Paz's Intro and Amanda's Fall from the Colibri(Hummingbird). The second is a stupid gimmick (stolen by the new MK), but show her fracture leg for story purpose (aka: removing her from it). There's another scene later where Cecile, a captured French ornithologist, escape and found Snake, in which you inspect her... but she at least half dress.

Paz is the only one treated that way and [HEADING=2]That's a major difference![/HEADING]
 

Akalistos

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Zer0Saber said:
Akalistos said:
Zer0Saber said:
Did anyone listen to the tape of the lesbian lotion rubdown in Peace Walker? That's not a joke, that's in the game.
I heard how Strangelove gave bath to That bird chick every so often, and how she was so gentle.
I was taking about the recording that Paz makes about Strangelove giving her a topless rubdown, it's a bit detailed.
I'm at the point where i got to get her back, but the base is alerted. Must be after... and I'm gonna get sick.

Edit: Also see Previous post... just above this one.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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civver said:
ProtoChimp said:
Here's something weird you guys might not believe: Japan, the same country which damn near idolises rape, has the lowest rape rate in the world last time I checked. Seriously.
Who here's willing to bet a lot is unreported?
Almost certainly, apparently there's an expectation for Japanese women to be submissive and to not make a fuss about it. I looked into it a while ago after spending an afternoon yelling "why don't you just kick his ass!?" at anime. Apparently the sexual culture over there is completely different to in the west.
 

RobfromtheGulag

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This article was hilarious.

MGS steadily went downhill for me as well; I enjoyed 1, liked 2, and that was it. I forced myself to play 3 like swallowing cough medicine, but it was awful and would just not end. And I lucked out and had a devoted roommate play 4 so I saw most of the cutscenes. 'Most' being 100 hrs or whatever.

I had noticed, though attributed to the action setting, the bias on women for some things in the series. Rose in MGS2 was somewhat of a crackhead too, though I guess that depends on whether you believe it was her towards the end or some AI version of her talking.

-Another thing that got me about the series was the believability. MGS1 had largely realistic stuff in it. MGS2 and onwards went way over the top, starting with Vamp. Who was so appealing they decided to reprise his role in 4. Awesome.
 

Bernzz

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Secret world leader (shhh) said:
MGS4: Naomi upskirt shot and beauty and beasts.
MGS:pW: x-ray pervert-o-vision.
MGS: rising: ????
Ehehe, MGS: Rising. 'Rising.'
 

hyperdrachen

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I think it's important to remember that, while I even agree with you that this is creepy beyond my ability to appreciate it creativly, this is still vision unchained. We can't praise creative freedom, but then decide there's too much of it when somone creates something we don't care for.

That said... fucking japan seriously. A nation I have never been to that has had a profound influence on my youth, and simultaniously presents me with things that show me just how far the rabbit hole goes if you don't decide to stop crawling.

I haven't played a metal gear in a while. I enjoyed 2 but i could feal the creepy factor moving toward my threshold at the end. It was just enough for me to call it unique and enjoyable. But I felt a bit weary of the narrative by the end.
 

Togusa09

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Go to hear you had a chance to relax.

I'd been guessing for a holiday you'd either lock yourself in a room with a few classics to play for a week, or get as far away from games and anyone who could recognise you.
 

FallenMessiah88

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Yeah this doesnt really surprise me at all. Its pretty much been like this always. But sometimes the japanese seem to take this to ridiculous heights. I mean just look at Naruto. Allright so maybe not so much in regards to sex, but more in regards to gender roles.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Right. I've been known to enjoy a bit of Japanese media, a few games and local cuisine and hell even one of their martial arts. So does this make me some kind of huge bastard?

Moving on, how exactly does one bring about social change that massive? We're talking about a complete shift of expected social roles.

There is one thing I'm reasonably sure of: the average Japanese man, goes to work with same concerns as you and I: "Will I still have a job in six months?", "Can I afford all my payments this month?" etc. They love their spouses, love their children, their parents and so on and so forth.

While I'm firmly of the opinion that anyone who tries to have a stab at sexual assault deserves to get their throat crushed 'neath your heel I'll no more condemn the Japanese as a whole for it than the common man on the street for all the sex crime that happens in Australia.


And looking forward to Kane and Lynch's curb stomping.
 

KDR_11k

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Those mech women sound like a satire of a staple of anime, obviously not something that'll fare well among people who don't watch that kind of stuff.

Anyway, from what I hear Yahtzee really needs to play Amnesia: The Dark Descent because it plays like the fixed-up version of Silent Hill Shattered Memories he wanted.
 

Flankhard

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Babitz said:
"..." After MGS1, everything went downhill.
Mm-hmm, couldn't agree more. By now, I'd take an upskirt QTE over another 30 min. speech about battlefield honor any day of the week.
 

Stewie Plisken

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Akalistos said:
No, you get to strip a 14 year old girl to her underwear for no F'in reason. I thought they did it to show scars on her (being tortured and kept prisoner) but i restart the game and there's nothing to see. And I play the game with a connector to a 32'' Flat screen HD TV. There's no way i could have miss them even if i wanted to.
Sixteen-year-old. And ironically enough, you did miss the scars; they're there. If your Flat screen HD TV is playing tricks on you, disconnect or just youtube the scene.

Never was bothered with women in MG-MGS2, despite women being treated like crap, mainly because I got the "guy game" vibe. And I admit that in MGS3, I quite liked the Boss. Peace Walker managed to creep even me out. The zooming, the "Date" mission and even the characterization; it even managed to (spoiler alert) turn the Boss from someone loyal to what's essentially a woman continuously abused by someone with power. That's pretty fucked up, Hideo.
 

Dak_N_Jaxter

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LOL
I don't know why, but I was really hoping Yahtzeee would do something on Peace Walker.
Whats funny is that he hasn't got to Celcile the bird Lady, or the date with Paz yet..... or Kaz.... or even those extra briefing tapes, Stranglove 1 through 3, and Paz 5.
He'd have a ball talking about those.
 

dunnace

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I think Hideo Kojima and Suda 51 should work together on a game.

And that game should be kept somewhere highly secret and safe. Then they should both be assigned to social workers. But for the love god not female ones.
 

Mangue Surfer

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Generic Gamer said:
civver said:
ProtoChimp said:
Here's something weird you guys might not believe: Japan, the same country which damn near idolises rape, has the lowest rape rate in the world last time I checked. Seriously.
Who here's willing to bet a lot is unreported?
Almost certainly, apparently there's an expectation for Japanese women to be submissive and to not make a fuss about it. I looked into it a while ago after spending an afternoon yelling "why don't you just kick his ass!?" at anime. Apparently the sexual culture over there is completely different to in the west.
I think you are misunderstanding things.

1 - The rape rate are low for the same reason that rates of all other crimes are low. The Japanese legal system is very, very harsh. You do something like stealing a candy from a grocery store and you are f* for the rest of your life.

2 - Japan is a 1st world country and the second largest economy on the planet. The countries with the highest rape rates are all underdeveloped.

3 - There's a big difference between being a f* weirdo and f* a criminal. I meam, this obsession rape-lolicon is very "WTF?!" and some men probably think that women should be submissive. But think because of that Japan is Gotham City is kind of too much.
 
Apr 16, 2008
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what you said makes sense, but its no better in other games. I mean hell, almost all of Team ninja's work does this. Even in their recent Metroid game, they just blatantly weakened Samus, made her wear her skintight jumpsuit more than she should, upped her cup size and made her have to ask her "daddy" for permission to use any weapons.

Its disturbing.

...SO WHEN ARE YOU REVIEWING STARCRAFT 2?
 

civver

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Mangue Surfer said:
1 - The rape rate are low for the same reason that rates of all other crimes are low. The Japanese legal system is very, very harsh. You do something like stealing a candy from a grocery store and you are f* for the rest of your life.
The harshness of the legal system's punishments does not necessarily mean that a high percentage of crimes are discovered and reported. Also, it is possible for cultural incentives to exist that discourage reporting of rape.
 

Ubermetalhed

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This made me laugh and I adore the MGS series.

Kojima is insane but my god do I love his insanity. He is one of the few truly creative minds in the industry at the moment and if he wants to do all sorts of crazy shit involving women then I can roll with it.
 

Indignation837

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Antonio Torrente said:
Indignation837 said:
some words
do you like golden sun?
Yes, probably to an unhealthy degree. Although, it's probably more for the nostalgia at this point, but back when it first came out I definitely had an obsession with it. When I heard the 3rd one was coming out, I jumped for joy.

Back on topic: Incidentally, Golden Sun is one of the only JRPGs that didn't have any kind of forced love story and the female characters were just as integral to the story and capable in battle as the males were.
 

Infinatex

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May 19, 2009
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Wooo! I'm going on a P&O South Pacific cruise in 2 weeks! Gonna be sweeeeet!

Well after his K&L review I can see why they may not be pleased!
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Sinclose said:
Wasn't really expecting any compliment from a man who so openly despises Kojima's work :p

In all honesty though, the zooming feature was pretty weird. But I'd expect this from any Japanese game that has such a feature, not necessarily Kojima specifically...
unnecessary partial nudity has been in MGS from the first one (the first metal gear solid game, obviously not the first metal gear)
The zooming in thing was weird I guess but pretty normal compared to the other games.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Mangue Surfer said:
I think you are misunderstanding things.

1 - The rape rate are low for the same reason that rates of all other crimes are low. The Japanese legal system is very, very harsh. You do something like stealing a candy from a grocery store and you are f* for the rest of your life.

2 - Japan is a 1st world country and the second largest economy on the planet. The countries with the highest rape rates are all underdeveloped.

3 - There's a big difference between being a f* weirdo and f* a criminal. I meam, this obsession rape-lolicon is very "WTF?!" and some men probably think that women should be submissive. But think because of that Japan is Gotham City is kind of too much.
No, I'm understanding those things. I didn't imply that it was a hellish lawless state, but that the culture towards resisting and reporting rape was completely different. The reason that rape is so common in third world countries is that rape is used as a weapon by militant factions, to demoralise and destroy civilian resistance.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/4078677.stm

In Japan there is still a huge stigma against the victims of rape and as a consequence it is vastly under reported.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=LmvG9CR8anwC&pg=PA46&lpg=PA46&dq=japan+rape+underreporting&source=bl&ots=hpdoNqlhhN&sig=1x2IiquRcIIAdvHt-YJlnZ-tB8U&hl=en&ei=ehiITJuADseQjAeI3fHmCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10&ved=0CEoQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=japan%20rape%20underreporting&f=false

So no, I'm not implying that Japan needs it's own Batman (hilarious thought that undoubtedly would be) but you do need to look at their statistics and mull it over. If they're really so low, why are they so low?
 

rddj623

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Never understood some of the gimmicks like those in games, distracting to gameplay and sexist.
 

ph0b0s123

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EightGaugeHippo said:
Hideo = Japanese
In Japan Sex = major industry selling point.

[Edit]

In UK, 16 = Legal = WIN SAUCE!!!!

Secret world leader (shhh) said:
MGS4: Naomi upskirt shot and beauty and beasts.
MGS:pW: x-ray pervert-o-vision.
MGS: rising: ????
Just to add to the list:
MGS1: Merly's pantless sections
MGS1 VR missions: Naomi/Meling photo shoots
MGS2: Locker posters
MGS3: Eva
MGS3: EVA!!!
Could not detect if a sarcastic comment, so just incase...

Yes, UK age of consent is 16.....

but as of 2009, having any media of anyone under 18 (even drawn / imaginary) that is in anyway sexual = kiddie p0rn = jail & sex offenders register. Just saying....


?And it's considerably more progressive than a lot of stuff that comes out of Japan, the country where sex crime is the foundation of the entertainment industry.?

Could not agree more. I love Anime and some parts of Japanese culture. I also understand the whole of Asia's fascination with youth and cuteness. But enough with the rape stuff, already.... especially this idea sold to guys that all those shy cute girls secretly want to be treated that way, no they bloody don't.... If you you are going show that stuff, then at least depict it in a realistic way, 'hopefully' that would turn most people (even Japanese men) off ever watching anything like that again....

Stopped playing MSG after 'Sons of Liberty'. Enjoyed the game (did not see anything echi, but was not looking). Just got fed up with the ending sequence that just went on an on about not very much. Just got too pretentious for my taste....
 

Desert Tiger

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I was a little weirded out by this too. I love Hideo's work (and yeah, I was a fan of MGS4) but I sort of just stared blankly at the screen and went "wait... what?" when it did the Paz thing. Luckily later on WHEN CERTAIN THINGS WERE REVEALED it became less creepy. So yeah.

Technically, I think the first one was a "medical diagnosis" too. She was meant to be covered in scars or something. I dunno. All I know is that Paz was just about the most annoying character ever.

kintaris said:
Instead of these depictions being even marginally related to the story, Kojima instead is openly saying, here's the cutscene and the narrative, but if you feel like seeing some tits or a flash of underwear, press this button. It undermines further what little credibility the series has in the first place.

If you're talking about a game like, for example, Bayonetta, the exploitation is acceptable within the context of the work, because it is a game based around a batshit insane woman whose clothes explode off all the time. That was the unique selling point of the game. But MGS, these are games that are sold on their narrative depth, their conflicted central characters and the unique stealth counter-terrorist gameplay. Jiggling tits and up-skirt camera angles just don't gel with that.

Neither does a monkey in a diaper, though. Or a soldier literally having diarrhoea on screen. Or... you get the picture.
Thing is, MGS is MEANT to be batshit-insane. Ever since the beginning it has been (and don't forget we're talking about a game that breaks the fourth wall almost FLUENTLY, with one of the most in/famous scenes ever as such with Mantis reading your memory card) and it continues to out-do itself at every turn with ridiculousness and weirdness. I don't think it's so much as "oh yeah. We're a serious game. But do this if you can't be bothered with all that sneaking and story stuff". It's a game that mixes seriousness and stupidity like some ridiculous vinegar/oil solution.

Besides, if anything you could say these prompts etc are Easter Eggs. Most games nowadays have Easter Eggs.
 

SimpleReally

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I haven't read past the first page but did you know that one of the female's last name (cecile)is kojima is really a god.

Also it's possible to have sex with a dude in this game
 

BlackAura

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Gordon_4 said:
Right. I've been known to enjoy a bit of Japanese media, a few games and local cuisine and hell even one of their martial arts. So does this make me some kind of huge bastard?

Moving on, how exactly does one bring about social change that massive? We're talking about a complete shift of expected social roles.

There is one thing I'm reasonably sure of: the average Japanese man, goes to work with same concerns as you and I: "Will I still have a job in six months?", "Can I afford all my payments this month?" etc. They love their spouses, love their children, their parents and so on and so forth.

While I'm firmly of the opinion that anyone who tries to have a stab at sexual assault deserves to get their throat crushed 'neath your heel I'll no more condemn the Japanese as a whole for it than the common man on the street for all the sex crime that happens in Australia.
THANK YOU! I was getting tired of all the "'Cause they're Japanese, amirite?!" hate going on.
 

Birdmad

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While I love pretty ladies a lot, the whole beauty&beast thing pissed me off a bit....
It's like screaming: "you don't care about the character at all, she's just an object. Oh, and we added some data to your twisted fantasies. yay. Enjoy."

Why the hell did they even add a background story to them? They are there only so you can drool over the object you'll never have laying around naked in your sofa. Or cooking dinner for you. Or whatever.

I wonder how it'd be if they changed the b&b girls for male characters! Would their broken story make a difference then? (Besides creating a whole fantasy in your mind that you could "fix" them, like a sink - the damn fantasy that is so damn present on lots of anime and manga as well)
I'm not sure how it'd be, but they definitely wouldn't pose for pictures in sexy positions while wearing a white catsuit, that's for sure.


It pisses me off 'cause, well, it's sexist as hell....

You can have sexy ladies in a game as much as you want to, but you don't need to almost state women are an object made for your sole entertainment, whose bodies matter much more than whatever they've been through...


Ok, sorry.... got a bit angry there ^^'


Sorry for english mistakes. As always, it's not my first language.
 

Gyrefalcon

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Good point that this "medical examination tool" probably won't come into play for overweight 40 year old men. Somehow I doubt it came into play for 18 year old male athletes either. :/
 

shadow skill

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Birdmad said:
While I love pretty ladies a lot, the whole beauty&beast thing pissed me off a bit....
It's like screaming: "you don't care about the character at all, she's just an object. Oh, and we added some data to your twisted fantasies. yay. Enjoy."

Why the hell did they even add a background story to them? They are there only so you can drool over the object you'll never have laying around naked in your sofa. Or cooking dinner for you. Or whatever.

I wonder how it'd be if they changed the b&b girls for male characters! Would their broken story make a difference then? (Besides creating a whole fantasy in your mind that you could "fix" them, like a sink - the damn fantasy that is so damn present on lots of anime and manga as well)
I'm not sure how it'd be, but they definitely wouldn't pose for pictures in sexy positions while wearing a white catsuit, that's for sure.


It pisses me off 'cause, well, it's sexist as hell....

You can have sexy ladies in a game as much as you want to, but you don't need to almost state women are an object made for your sole entertainment, whose bodies matter much more than whatever they've been through...


Ok, sorry.... got a bit angry there ^^'


Sorry for english mistakes. As always, it's not my first language.
Hmm I thought they were rather sad creatures. That you got that from those characters is more likely than not your own fault.
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Extra Punctuation: Hideo Kojima and Women

I admit to having a soft spot for the Metal Gear Solid series. They are extremely overwritten and batshit insane, and I will happily say without qualification that Metal Gear Solid 4 was absolutely fucking dreadful

Read Full Article
Well you're right about the "no qualification" part...

For someone who "has a soft spot for the Metal Gear Solid series" you sure like to ***** alot. Why do you even play them at all? If someone goes to a restaurant and find out they don't quite like the food there, the answer isn't to keep going back but simply stop whining and GO TO ANOTHER ONE.

If you don't like the MGS series fine, many other people do. Just simply STOP PLAYING THEM, Have a coke, a smile and a big serving of STFU.
 

Loonerinoes

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nhgifnd said:
Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Extra Punctuation: Hideo Kojima and Women

I admit to having a soft spot for the Metal Gear Solid series. They are extremely overwritten and batshit insane, and I will happily say without qualification that Metal Gear Solid 4 was absolutely fucking dreadful

Read Full Article
Well you're right about the "no qualification" part...

For someone who "has a soft spot for the Metal Gear Solid series" you sure like to ***** alot. Why do you even play them at all? If someone goes to a restaurant and find out they don't quite like the food there, the answer isn't to keep going back but simply stop whining and GO TO ANOTHER ONE.

If you don't like the MGS series fine, many other people do. Just simply STOP PLAYING THEM, Have a coke, a smile and a big serving of STFU.
Unlike yourself, critics don't get the luxury of playing just the things they'd like to play. If they did, there wouldn't be that much left for them to criticize now, would there?
 

Zanaxal

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Oh shit, Yahtzee actually decided to dive deep into what is metal gear solid Storytelling.

I feel armageddon aproaching.

Mgs is fun, the story is exciting.


Mgs 4 however was a explanation that was uncalled for by all the "cough" yahtzee naysayers that wanted every damn thread of the story explained to minute detail.

Which just ended up being some kind of unplayabale everlasting crap cutscene game.

So RIP mgs you outlived yourself. Now the only continuation can be some weird clone saga or back in time travel for the series.
 

I_am_acting

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this is a game series that comes from japan, do you REALLY need an explanation to understand that yes, their games will be fucked up (as proven by those weird scenes in silent hill 0__0)
 

nipsen

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lol. ..seriously, did no one think it just was hysterically funny when Otacon screams: "get away, get away - she's going to hug you!".

I mean - in the story, the women are actual people. Naomi for example is very feminine, but is still strong enough to do what she wants. Lots of examples of that in Metal Gear.

Instead, the warped thing Kojima makes fun of, imo, is the otakus and complexes about women. All the "peeking" is something you choose to do yourself. Always outside of the actual story.. While you're in the story, the women simply are beautiful, and no more or less exposed or exploited than the men. And what's up with Psycho Mantis..?

I mean, you could easily make the case that the ones who get the shaft in the Metal Gear series is the "sick" culture that exists on the backside of the narrative. And that this really turns into complete overdrive with Peace Walker, in about the same way as the product-placements.

..you can say what you want, but it's.. you know.. possible to play through the series without summing it up as "a series of episodes where women get molested in the worst ways possible, while you can zoom in on their bits". :D
 

nipsen

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Desert Tiger said:
Thing is, MGS is MEANT to be batshit-insane. Ever since the beginning it has been (and don't forget we're talking about a game that breaks the fourth wall almost FLUENTLY, with one of the most in/famous scenes ever as such with Mantis reading your memory card) and it continues to out-do itself at every turn with ridiculousness and weirdness.
:D exactly. Juggling in the codex as well - outside the story-flow, where you're gaining psyche by listening to her voice.
 

Sacman

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May 15, 2008
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Hubilub said:
Well, a mad genius is a mad genius.

Some mad geniuses try to create earth-quakes with pocket-devices, others want to play doctor with under-aged torture-victims.
I know which category I fit in...and it's not the first...
 

Yahtzee Croshaw

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A soldier undressing attractive women with his eyes.... so strange! It would never happen! Yet japan= home of panty vending machines... and idol panty fetish ( ala signed photos with used underwear) and alien tentacle rape porn. That kojima, such a edgy fellow.....

Edit: Not saying japanese people are the weirdest people out there, just saying that these "scenes" of debauchery or strange suddenly overt sexuality may just tie in to that niggling id in our consciousness that reflexory stimulus makes us think, " she is a beautiful girl, I may die soon, I wonder what she looks like naked".

As for the beauty/beast thing, I didn't play it, can't be entirely accurate, but once again seems like an introspective look on psyche en masse. I think I'm a fairly balanced and rational guy, does it mean that when I meet women who have undergone abuse and want to help them, want to make things right/normal, I am objectifying them? Or does it mean I empathize with people who've been hurt and wish them something better than they could have attained alone?
 

Monk Ed

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What the heck is up with this article? The MGS series is enormously progressive towards women. Let me make the counter-case:

Objectification is /not/ about how a woman is portrayed during sexy-time, but how she is portrayed at all /other/ times. A lot of women in MGS are shown in their underwear and tight clothes, sure. (Incidentally so are the men but apparently that doesn't count.) But those women are more often than not also fully fleshed out characters with critical roles in the story. Even the B&B had backstories.

Showing a woman in a sexualized manner is not by itself in the least bit denigrating. In fact, quite the opposite, complaining about it is what's denigrating, for it ascribes an inherent defenselessness to women. If anything, there is a distinct correlation between the sexualization of women in a society and sexual equality in that society. It's treating women as sacred untouchable idols that objectifies and denigrates them as people.

Besides, Kojima is totally equal-opportunity. Raiden goes around completely naked in MGS2 for a full level -- after being strapped similarly naked to a torture rack. (If it had been a woman in the exact same situation you can bet Yahtzee would have been all over it in this article.) Snake, in most appearances, has a bulging, distinct package. If you so choose, Snake can go around with his shirt off for the entire game of MGS3. It's fair to say that the proportion of fanservice between genders in MGS is roughly equal to the proportion of genders who play the game.

Kojima is about the most sexually progressive designer out there: He acknowledges that women can be both sexual and people -- and that in fact the two, far from being opposing ideas, serve to strengthen each other.

As for Eva going around with her shirt unzipped... Duh, she was manipulating Snake. That was made pretty obvious.

As for Paz and the B&B and their tragic backstories... A comedian once joked that tortured artists get more chicks than comedians. The point being, 'brokenness' is a kind of flavor that some people like. I see Paz and the B&B as being analogous. So if it's okay for women to go "Aw he's so tortured, it makes me want to hug him... and stuff...", I don't see what's wrong with men going "Aw she's so tortured, it makes me want to hug her... and stuff."
 

GumbaMasta

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I was on the fence if I should buy Peace Walker, but now, after reading this article I'm determined to get it.
 

kinapuffar

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The reason women aren't more prominent is because kojima wants to convey the sense that war is still and always has been something men do. Women usually aren't even allowed on the frontlines, and for these spec ops super-soldier kinds of things, it's surprising you see any women at all.
Sure, Kojima could go all politically correct and add an action-girl and make snake not stare at their boobs. But that would come across as fake and forced.
He looks up to The Boss, and that comes across as honest by comparison.


The part where you undress women with the camera is supposed to show that naked snake (big boss) still is, despite being the greatest soldier ever, just a man. And it also shows that he has become so familiar with war that even in the middle of it all he can still ignore it and think about girls.
 

Sergen Irmak

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for real x ray experience visit www.vistaverda.com
technology of VISTA VERDA which reveals the true shapes of any object is now available on mobile devices.
 

Zeckt

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Last I played of Metal Gear was when Raiden's girlfriend was yelling at him about relationship issues while on a life or death mission. It even had dramatic music playing during her complaining because apparently we were supposed to feel emotionally involved in that drivel. Never touched the series since!