Hitman's "Attack of the Saints" Trailer and the misguided people that defend it.

[Thoric485]

I think it was quite the marketing misfire, though it was actually in-line with the tone of the previous games. While the overreaching story of Hitman has been good, the scenarios, settings and characters in the individual missions themselves have almost inevitably been straight out of a B-grade 80s action movie. Of course for the sake of humor and making NPC patterns predictable, not to keep minorities down.

So I guess what they wanted to remind us with that trailer was that they've not gone all grimdark, and Hitman's distinctive pulpiness is still in there, but they timed it badly with the "women in gaming" issue being the topic of the month and made themselves a target.

Hearing that IO made changes makes it interesting though, as I'm sure the crowd that stood up for BioWare's "artistic integrity", and the one that took part in this backlash overlap.

 

[Negatempest]

Oh, entertainment in general has treated women far worse than what that trailer did.

Were the "evil" nuns dressed as sex symbols? yes.
Were they all nearly in a perfect hourglass shape? yes.
Can you call this part the trailer sexist? sure.

What was not done?
Were the women kidnapped in anyway? No.
Were they as fragile as a butterfly? No.
Did they need a man's help in the trailer? No.
Were they nagging/complaining? No.


I, as a guy, would feel far more offended if it showed the women in "kitchen" clothing, tripping over themselves, and acting like a damsel in distress. This trailer was interesting in the form that 6 assassins could do nothing on the Agent.

So, because other mediums do even worse, and this particular trailer did not include other stereotypes of women, that excuses them from any sort of criticism or claims of sexism? Just because it's not sexist in one area does not make it non-sexist if it goes the opposite route.

Okay, I will go a little more into detail.
It is sexist, but it is not blow your gasket sexist. At worst they dressed extremely sexy, at worst. At best they could of been top 10 assassin's in the world who could not kill a single guy.

 

[Black Arrow Officer]

Oh yes, the Hitman series has NEVER been over-the-top or featured sexualized violence before.

Nor have the previous Hitman games featured such excessive and brutal violence.

Killer nuns are completely out of place for Hitman.

So yeah guys, lets all get worked up over something we don't even understand! Because examining context is sooooo much harder than sensationalism!

 

[Zack Alklazaris]

I was more angry that the trailer was NOT hitman. Hitman is about stealth and creative execution of the objectives. The trailer appeared dumbed down and thats what ticked me off. I don't think people have a right to complain. Yes it was sexualized, but hitman has had an element of sexuality in their advertisements.

Spoiler

So thats nothing to complain about from a gamer stand point. Also there is a constitutional right to do this, though you do so with the risk of bad press. I have noticed there is a lack of women to kill in video games, that generally games show its ok to kill men in vast genocidal numbers, but not women. Yet complaints are few and far between.

It doesn't feel right that as a man I'm seen as so expendable and mistreatable, but I don't complain, because its a game. People who are upset about this need to do the sensible thing and just not play the game, instead of throwing their own beliefs into other peoples faces. Just because you have a strong belief doesn't make your opinion more important than others.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Killer nuns are completely out of place for Hitman.

I don't...did you link the wrong picture? I don't understand how that last picture is a killer nun.

I totally understand why people found that trailer obnoxious, because it was obnoxious. Trailer proponents...if you replaced the nuns with priests, and the guys threw off their shirts and pants to reveal skin tight bondage outfits with leather collars and bulging packages, would you be like "Hey cool, Hitman has always been kooky!", or would you think "Why would anyone choose to fight in that?". It wasn't SEXIST, per se, at least not by the technical definition of sexism, but it was most certainly PANDERING. Lazy, juvenile pandering. Mix in the violence and I honestly cannot believe anyone is surprised it caused a furor. The moment I saw it I thought "Well that's going to cause a furor".

CAPTCHA: Kitten Mittens. Wheee!

 

[daveman247]

Killer nuns are completely out of place for Hitman.

I don't...did you link the wrong picture? I don't understand how that last picture is a killer nun.

The picture is from the last game. They were showing the fact that it isnt the first time this kind of thing has been in the games already ¬_¬ One level in the past was set in a bondage meat factory, ran by a morbidly obese scottish man. And so this trailer is STILL in the same tone as before.

OT: I saw nothing wrong with the trailer. People just like to get offened these days. One day i fear everything will be sterilised and "safe" and boring... Can't rock the boat now can we?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

The picture is from the last game. They were showing the fact that it isnt the first time this kind of thing has been in the games already ¬_¬ One level in the past was set in a bondage meat factory, ran by a morbidly obese scottish man. And so this trailer is STILL in the same tone as before.

OT: I saw nothing wrong with the trailer. People just like to get offened these days. One day i fear everything will be sterilised and "safe" and boring... Can't rock the boat now can we?

No I get that there was pandering in the games before, that was pretty obvious. It's just he kicks it off with "Killer nuns are out of place in Hitman...psssht yeah right, check this out" and shows a picture of a dude in a masquerade mask killing a woman in her underwear. I don't get it. I DON'T GET IT. I was expecting a killer nun.

As for your OT...careful around that slope. It looks slippery.

 

[Saviordd1]

I'm not defending it, I just think anyone who attacks it has way to much time on their hands and needs to get over it.

 

[rob_simple]

Here's the thing I don't understand about you people that harp on about a game's integrity or maintaining tradition: why do you just want to keep playing the same game?

It seems like every time a new franchise game comes out people lose their minds, declaring it non-canon and saying it's ruined the series (Devil may Cry) before they've even get to play the damn thing.

I liked the old Hitman games, but I like the sexploitation grindhouse feel of the new one (whether or not that will exist in the finished product now, who knows) and think it could be interesting. Sure it could be a disaster, but I'd rather a game fail for trying something different than be good because it's the same thing we've been playing for more than a decade.

I'd just like to remind you, OP, that Resident Evil 4 was a huge departure from the established style of the series, and it ended up being one of the most critically and publicly acclaimed games in the franchise, so maybe wait til the new Hitman comes out before we decide they've ruined everything, huh?

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Here's the thing I don't understand about you people that harp on about a game's integrity or maintaining tradition: why do you just want to keep playing the same game?

It seems like every time a new franchise game comes out people lose their minds, declaring it non-canon and saying it's ruined the series (Devil may Cry) before they've even get to play the damn thing.

I liked the old Hitman games, but I like the sexploitation grindhouse feel of the new one (whether or not that will exist in the finished product now, who knows) and think it could be interesting. Sure it could be a disaster, but I'd rather a game fail for trying something different than be good because it's the same thing we've been playing for more than a decade.

I'd just like to remind you, OP, that Resident Evil 4 was a huge departure from the established style of the series, and it ended up being one of the most critically and publicly acclaimed games in the franchise, so maybe wait til the new Hitman comes out before we decide they've ruined everything, huh?

I don't mind change if the series is rebooting. Like you said, the dMc fans were mad as hell over no reason. The thing is, this isn't a reboot. The is part of a continuing story, and for the turn that the narrative seems to be taking it seems out of place. It's like if out of nowhere Metal Gear Solid 5 was announced and the trailer depicted an army of female clones that use their feminine wile to take control of the worlds nukes. It doesn't fit. Change can be good but if it doesn't mesh with the pre-existing universe it looks messy.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Oh yes, the Hitman series has NEVER been over-the-top or featured sexualized violence before.

Nor have the previous Hitman games featured such excessive and brutal violence.

Killer nuns are completely out of place for Hitman.

So yeah guys, lets all get worked up over something we don't even understand! Because examining context is sooooo much harder than sensationalism!

The first picture seems pretty normal to me. He's about to kill someone in a bikini. Big deal, are you saying just because she's in a bikini near a pool that the game is oversexualized? You're gonna have to do better than that.

Second photo seems more like a player dicking around in the second level of Hitman: Blood Money if I'm not mistaken. And to be honest that doesn't help your point of making the game look overly violent. Keep in mind that the ranking system in Hitman would've given whoever took that screenshot a pretty shitty score.

The third picture has some context because both the victim and Agent 47 are in costume. Agent 47 obviously in disguise. Same can't be said for the trailer. Sorry but there's no rational explanation for the Saint's Row gang reject that walked up in latex nun costumes with RPGs. It went from a great atmosphere of a professional assassin to Hollywood trying to rip off Quentin Tarantino. And that's my point here, people seems to not know what is offending fans of the series when its kind of obvious if you know anything about the Hitman games.

 

[rob_simple]

Here's the thing I don't understand about you people that harp on about a game's integrity or maintaining tradition: why do you just want to keep playing the same game?

It seems like every time a new franchise game comes out people lose their minds, declaring it non-canon and saying it's ruined the series (Devil may Cry) before they've even get to play the damn thing.

I liked the old Hitman games, but I like the sexploitation grindhouse feel of the new one (whether or not that will exist in the finished product now, who knows) and think it could be interesting. Sure it could be a disaster, but I'd rather a game fail for trying something different than be good because it's the same thing we've been playing for more than a decade.

I'd just like to remind you, OP, that Resident Evil 4 was a huge departure from the established style of the series, and it ended up being one of the most critically and publicly acclaimed games in the franchise, so maybe wait til the new Hitman comes out before we decide they've ruined everything, huh?

I don't mind change if the series is rebooting. Like you said, the dMc fans were mad as hell over no reason. The thing is, this isn't a reboot. The is part of a continuing story, and for the turn that the narrative seems to be taking it seems out of place. It's like if out of nowhere Metal Gear Solid 5 was announced and the trailer depicted an army of female clones that use their feminine wile to take control of the worlds nukes. It doesn't fit. Change can be good but if it doesn't mesh with the pre-existing universe it looks messy.

That's absolutely fair enough, but Resident Evil 4 wasn't a reboot either, it was characters from an existing universe put in a different place with a different enemy and new mechanics, but it was still had the survivalist feel of a Resident Evil game just now with a lot more intense action and big set pieces. It was everything a good sequel should be, in my opinion.

The truth is, we don't know exactly how the narrative is going to pan out in this game, given the feel of the trailer I took it to be a hunter becomes the hunted sort of thing but all I'm saying is we need to wait to see the finished product before we say the series has been ruined or that this game is going against the grain of the established universe.

Also, I don't think there's anything Metal Gear Solid could do to make the story more stupid than it already is. (Joking, mostly.)

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Dark and Goofy is one thing. (Again Hollywood has done the Dark and Goofy thing a lot) It's the utter ridiculousness of the fact that it was an explosion filled trailer that portrays this random seemingly choreographed American film style fight scene when the Hitman series has been about stealth and finesse. The series has had goofy "bits". Those are humourous and yet add to the dark world of being a Hitman in ANY situation. The trailer for Absolution was a mistake. That trailer was what the wanted to sell the game on. Tits Explosions and Blood. Not what the series is known for.

Just saying.

Again you're missing the point. Posting a fan-made vid proves nothing. Yes there are sexual themes and violence in the series, but they're handled properly. Bikini babe assassins make sense considering they're near pools of water in a mansion. We've all seen James Bond. My point is that the latex clad nuns had no realistic reason to be dressed they way they were. They looked like Saint's Row gang rejects. Hell, if they weren't in latex and were trying to kill Agent 47 in a church, this would not be an issue. The fact is that this trailer is out of place with the rest of the series. If the developers thought enough to change the Saints' appearance in-game to try to preserve the integrity of the game, then by all means that portion of the game probably needed it. As we've seen footage of the game itself that looks to be a great Hitman addition I think you can agree that the latex RPG toting nuns would not have been a great addition to the game.

 

[Living Contradiction]

Are some people just blowing hot air when it comes to being mad at IO for making the changes it has?

Heh. You're on an internet forum, friend. There are people who will blow hot air because it's Friday and they have to work.

That being said yes, there are folks who will use the article and its content to further their own agendas, be it attacking feminism, the portrayal of women, the willingness of companies to cave to consumer demand, or what have you.

However, look closer. IO Interactive had to know the reaction they'd garner by releasing a hyper-sexualized trailer like that. They knew people would go "Bondage nuns? Da fa?!" and roar up and down the internet. The trailer was an ad and effective advertising reaches as many people as it can, be it through controversy or annoying jingle making. Since I can't picture IO putting the tagline "Your baldy headed friend who never smiles" on the Hitman franchise, we get controversy.

Do you agree with IO for making said changes?

To be honest, I don't think the game was changed. Once again, this was planned for. IO put teasers throughout its trailers for fans (like myself, I'm not going to fight this one) to find and say, "Oho! So not only did 47 take out a wetwork team sent by his former employer, he's going to have to do it again in game."

Yes, I knew the Saints were going to be in game long before this press release hit. Colour me unsurprised. Colour me even more unsurprised that this particular comment to the press came out the day after a new trailer was posted on Youtube about the game. Now I wonder why that could be?

Do you think people should research a topic before getting fired up about it?(Kind of obvious I know but its for discussion's sake)?

Gods, no. How else can those of us who know what we're talking about demonstrate our superiority? Heh heh.

Seriously though, if people did research instead of knee-jerk reactions, the forums and internet as we know it wouldn't be the way it is. Human beings react to things in a variety of ways but just as there are people who think first and react later, so there are those who react first and think afterwards...or who don't think at all, content that their reaction is enough to carry the day and leave them to do other, more important, things.

Behold the human experience. Neat, eh?

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

what with the Hollywood style random explosions and the over the top sillyness that has never been a major part of the Hitman series.

You couldn't be more wrong.

Exhibit A:

The game has had tons of goofy and dark humour through it.

Dark and Goofy is one thing. (Again Hollywood has done the Dark and Goofy thing a lot) It's the utter ridiculousness of the fact that it was an explosion filled trailer that portrays this random seemingly choreographed American film style fight scene when the Hitman series has been about stealth and finesse. The series has had goofy "bits". Those are humourous and yet add to the dark world of being a Hitman in ANY situation. The trailer for Absolution was a mistake. That trailer was what the wanted to sell the game on. Tits Explosions and Blood. Not what the series is known for.

Really? You've never played Hitman in the Psychotic Style where you just lay waste to the place? Huh. And I'm pretty sure the Hitman series has never shied away from sexiness either.

I haven't played a Hitman game like a psycho because the game actually rewards you for playing it like a pro Assassin. Hell, the ranking system in-game kind of tells you the game was meant to be played stealthily. And no the series has never shied away from sex, but what the hell is the purpose of sending in latex clad nuns who look like they didn't make the cut to be Matt Hazard villains in?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I'm not defending it, I just think anyone who attacks it has way to much time on their hands and needs to get over it.

I've never really understood this reasoning. In the time it took you to type your gripe, I could type a gripe about any given subject. It doesn't take a lot of time to complain.

I fucking hate Mangoes. There. Took me less than 3 seconds.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Here's the thing I don't understand about you people that harp on about a game's integrity or maintaining tradition: why do you just want to keep playing the same game?

It seems like every time a new franchise game comes out people lose their minds, declaring it non-canon and saying it's ruined the series (Devil may Cry) before they've even get to play the damn thing.

I liked the old Hitman games, but I like the sexploitation grindhouse feel of the new one (whether or not that will exist in the finished product now, who knows) and think it could be interesting. Sure it could be a disaster, but I'd rather a game fail for trying something different than be good because it's the same thing we've been playing for more than a decade.

I'd just like to remind you, OP, that Resident Evil 4 was a huge departure from the established style of the series, and it ended up being one of the most critically and publicly acclaimed games in the franchise, so maybe wait til the new Hitman comes out before we decide they've ruined everything, huh?

I don't mind change if the series is rebooting. Like you said, the dMc fans were mad as hell over no reason. The thing is, this isn't a reboot. The is part of a continuing story, and for the turn that the narrative seems to be taking it seems out of place. It's like if out of nowhere Metal Gear Solid 5 was announced and the trailer depicted an army of female clones that use their feminine wile to take control of the worlds nukes. It doesn't fit. Change can be good but if it doesn't mesh with the pre-existing universe it looks messy.

That's absolutely fair enough, but Resident Evil 4 wasn't a reboot either, it was characters from an existing universe put in a different place with a different enemy and new mechanics, but it was still had the survivalist feel of a Resident Evil game just now with a lot more intense action and big set pieces. It was everything a good sequel should be, in my opinion.

The truth is, we don't know exactly how the narrative is going to pan out in this game, given the feel of the trailer I took it to be a hunter becomes the hunted sort of thing but all I'm saying is we need to wait to see the finished product before we say the series has been ruined or that this game is going against the grain of the established universe.

Also, I don't think there's anything Metal Gear Solid could do to make the story more stupid than it already is. (Joking, mostly.)

I hear what you're saying and before I continue I'd like to thank you for actually having a point beyond showing YouTube videos and screenshots of old Hitman games and going "I don't know what you're talking about, there's violence and boobs here, durrrr."

While I understand that RE:4 was critically acclaimed it wasn't without disappointed fans. A lot of people do feel that RE:4 was when the series stopped being a survival horror game and started to become another flashy action game. Don't get me wrong, the game is still amazing to play, but the "I'm supposed to be scared" aspect took a significant hit. People didn't love RE:5 as much as RE:4 because the horror aspect was completely gone and now look at RE:6. it looks ridiculous.

I think fans of Hitman fear that one of their favourite franchises is going in the same direction. Can't blame them for being worried, with the way a lot of franchises have changed over the year for the worse people want to keep as many of the good ones around to enjoy in their entirety as possible.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

I'm not defending it, I just think anyone who attacks it has way to much time on their hands and needs to get over it.

I'm not defending it, I just think anyone who attacks it has way to much time on their hands and needs to get over it.

I've never really understood this reasoning. In the time it took you to type your gripe, I could type a gripe about any given subject. It doesn't take a lot of time to complain.

I fucking hate Mangoes. There. Took me less than 3 seconds.

Pineapples suck. 1.5 seconds.

But seriously, its a forum. Forums exist because people have free time to discuss stuff like this. If people don't like it when discussions are had, why even comment on the post?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Pineapples suck.

The fuck you just say about pineapples? You are going DOWN, man. Shit just got real up in here.

 

[Living Contradiction]

My point is that the latex clad nuns had no realistic reason to be dressed they way they were.

Sorry, I couldn't resist. Here's a bit of context for you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGJDoe62eNI&feature=plcp

Tap pause at the forty-second mark and you'll see an internal memo written by an angry manager to the handler assigned to aforementioned group of latex-clad nuns. Allow me to quote...

I am not comfortable with the i424 project. You say their effectiveness...proves their value. I do not argue the success...what matters is not that they can, but why...

They can because they're fucking nuns and people don't expect nuns to suddenly pull out automatic weapons and start blasting the shit out of things.

Also, what's with these fetish costumes?! I find them inappropriate and exploitative. They seem to defeat the purpose of the disguise?!

The handler's response to this last part of the memo was succinct. "I will ask them."

The implication here is plain: These are not cardboard cut-outs. These are developed characters who have motivations and histories. And like 47, they have enough personality to stand out from generic "go here and perform the objective" assassins.

The fact is that this trailer is out of place with the rest of the series. If the developers thought enough to change the Saints' appearance in-game to try to preserve the integrity of the game, then by all means that portion of the game probably needed it. As we've seen footage of the game itself that looks to be a great Hitman addition I think you can agree that the latex RPG toting nuns would not have been a great addition to the game.

I've said it once and I'll say it again: the developers did this on purpose. The integrity of the game was never in doubt and was not modified by public outcry. I'm looking forward to seeing how the second team of these women take on 47, since their standard tactic of a direct frontal assault didn't work. And when I play Absolution, you'd better believe that I'm going to be watching every single church I pass for a sniper scope, just in case.