Hogwarts Legacy Will Allow For Transgender Characters

Status
Not open for further replies.

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,788
2,081
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
does anyone care about those ones, though? There's been, what 10+ Batman movies, and one of Spawn, who most people may not even have heard of.
  • Shaft? Yes. Though the recent film was just average and a time killer.
  • Spawn? Yes. They do exist. The live action film sucks, yet the HBO animated series is admirable and was great. Too bad the show got canceled and ended on a huge cliff hanger with three plots waiting in line.
  • Black Adam ? Yes. He's suppose to be in the next Shazam film, but COVID put a lot of things on hold.
 
Last edited:

Asita

Answer Hazy, Ask Again Later
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
2,823
420
88
Country
USA
Gender
Male
Yeah, I don't know if the new black Batwoman is a lesbian, but she's definitely a new character, with the first lesbian Batwoman still being canon to the show.
Well, for those familiar with the DCAU, there should be some rather amusing resonance with that, considering that the big twist in Mystery of the Batwoman was that there were three of them
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Dwarvenhobble

Is on the Gin
May 26, 2020
2,888
273
88
Country
United Kingdom
So...which bathrooms are the trans wizards going to use?

No, that's not a random silly question, bathrooms are surprisingly important in like half of the Harry Potter books.
Also the game is set in like the late 1800s I mean we should probably hope they have got the bathrooms installed by this point and aren't going with the lore of what happened before bathrooms were put in............
Ah, but are they wrong, though?

Half of every film made nowdays seems to be either an adaptation of a book series, or a reboot/sequel/prequel of a franchise from 20 years ago. Nobody wants to take a risk with something new and ending up with Jupiter Ascending.
I mean Superman and batman have traded places over the years as DC's most profitable.

Harley Quinn organically rose to being near A list eve if she's not quite a in he top spots. It also seems like Cyborg as a character is seeing a push though if it's organic or if it's DC going "Shit we need a Black character" I can't tell but he's gone from Teen Titans mostly to being a more major part of the Justice League in many versions.

You are right about no-one wanting to take risks though. I think Moviebob ever covered that problem a few years ago in either his follow the money episode or the Broken Biz episode.

Being bad doesn't stop movies from doing well if they are part of existing franchises. Star Wars comes to mind.
*Looks at Solo a Star Wars Story*
it doesn't always work
 

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
2,037
1,170
118
Australia
Also the game is set in like the late 1800s I mean we should probably hope they have got the bathrooms installed by this point and aren't going with the lore of what happened before bathrooms were put in............

I mean Superman and batman have traded places over the years as DC's most profitable.

Harley Quinn organically rose to being near A list eve if she's not quite a in he top spots. It also seems like Cyborg as a character is seeing a push though if it's organic or if it's DC going "Shit we need a Black character" I can't tell but he's gone from Teen Titans mostly to being a more major part of the Justice League in many versions.

You are right about no-one wanting to take risks though. I think Moviebob ever covered that problem a few years ago in either his follow the money episode or the Broken Biz episode.


*Looks at Solo a Star Wars Story*
it doesn't always work
I feel DC has a few really easy goals it could kick for diverse characters. Want a black character? Use John Stewart as Green Lantern instead of Hal Jordon. Fuck there’s a good chance most people know John better cos he was in the DCAU. Plus doing that means Cyborg can go back to the Teen Titans where he feels like a more natural member.
 

SilentPony

Previously known as an alleged "Feather-Rustler"
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
10,506
974
118
Corner of No and Where
I feel like using race as a marketing feature and slapping it on an established more marketable character shows a mistaken dismissiveness toward minority characters. Like publishers just can't imagine that a minority character can be beloved (and therefore profitable) without tying them to an established marketable character.
See I'm not sure how I feel. On one hand I can see something like the black Superman that's just Obama being lazy. I'm reminded of a quote from Kristen Stewart of all people, and I'm paraphrasing here, but she said something akin to "Female empowerment is such a big thing right now, and people really want it, but then they hand me a script and change Bob to Sue and think its empowerment, and its just disgusting." The point just taking a character, and changing their race/gender/religion/sexuality isn't the same as making an authentic character from that group.

On the other hand I see no problem is imaging a new version of a mantle character. Spiderman, Batman, Superman, Jedi, Starfleet Captain, ring bearer, what have you - these are titles, mantles different characters can find their way to. Miles Morales is arguably more popular than Peter Parker right now, but they're both Spiderman and their races are central to their character and their interpretation of the mantle of Spider Man. No one thought Captain Janeway was just a gimmick female Starfleet Captain, she was a legit badass in her own right, and her being a female was central to several storylines without being her entire character.
Even this thing with a black Superman I'm okay with so long as they're not lazy and come up with an interesting new Kryptonian and their struggles growing up black in America and also trying to find the good in people. That sounds like a really interesting take on the Superman mantle, while allowing for Clark Kent to also be around as an another Superman. I see no reason why they need to 'reboot' Superman when if they want to add a new character they can just add a new character.
I mean lets be honest this is comic book lore, at any given time there are 5-6 versions of each character pimping around, including a furry, a gender swapped one, and oddly enough a pleasant 50s suburban version that never ages. There's a reason they do those huge crossover events every few years, because they just have to take stock of how many alternate versions of characters they want to write this time.
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 12, 2020
3,158
914
118
Country
United States
The problem that that is that the game USED to have a character creator, and then the devs took that away and gave everyone completely randomized characters instead.

Yeah, if I bought a game with a specific feature, and liked that feature and then that feature was removed I'd be pissed, and it would have nothing to do with race or gender and everything to do with not getting what I paid for.
They did not, in fact, have a character creator: everybody was just a white dude.
 

Dirty Hipsters

This is how we praise the sun!
Legacy
Apr 18, 2020
6,779
867
118
Country
'Merica
Gender
3 children in a trench coat
They did not, in fact, have a character creator: everybody was just a white dude.
My mistake then.

I never owned rust, nor do I particularly care about what the characters I play look like (in pretty much any game that lets me design my own character I end up wearing a full face mask or helmet).

I totally thought that people were upset because they had created their own characters and then that ability got removed and replaced by complete character randomization.
 

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
2,037
1,170
118
Australia
See I'm not sure how I feel. On one hand I can see something like the black Superman that's just Obama being lazy. I'm reminded of a quote from Kristen Stewart of all people, and I'm paraphrasing here, but she said something akin to "Female empowerment is such a big thing right now, and people really want it, but then they hand me a script and change Bob to Sue and think its empowerment, and its just disgusting." The point just taking a character, and changing their race/gender/religion/sexuality isn't the same as making an authentic character from that group.
Which is ironic considering that’s more or less how Ellen Ripley came into being.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
16,925
886
118
Something tells me if 90% of game protagonists were gay, and straights were out there demanding gay characters be turned straight there would be a lot of uproar.
Considering there's no history of straight people converted into being gay, but the other way around is still very much happening, that wouldn't be too surprising. But then that's taking into account a scenario that most likely would never exist anyway.

And its not deflecting diversity if media, its saying that audience control of the story isn't as important as the story being told the way the authors want. That quote is from the Dishonored 2 review, and Yahtzee goes out of his way to say the woman's story is the stronger, better story, and there was no need to give the choice to play as the man. That one is a natural progression of the story from the first game, and the other is for people who no sense of narrative build. Some stories are meant to be told from a single person's perspective, and changing some fundamental detail like their gender can make the story worse.
Yeah, but a phrase like that hits a bit differently in a conversation about gay or trans representation in media. It basically tells those people who typically get ignored to stop complaining about being ignored.

And unless we're talking about books, how many authors actually have control over how they want to tell a story? Most movies, TV shows, and videogames are subjected to the pressure of producers and investors. I've heard the argument of 'if someone doesn't want to put gay or black characters in their story that's their decision as an artist', but with big productions it's not really the artist who makes the decisions. I don't think many people will complain about a bunch of obscure, trashy novels not having a lot of diverse representation. But big blockbusters meant to make money never really taking the risk to feature a protagonist who isn't white or straight, sends a message that if you're not white, or straight, or maybe even a guy we can't make (as much) money off of you, which means you're not worth as much.

And as far as this idea that women, gays, racial minorities have been forced to identify as straight white males is, well frankly its bullshit. We've had none white male characters since like we've had writing. Books going back to when books first started weren't all white males, they didn't tell the story of John Smith public accountant from Cheshire in Ancient Egypt. The Greeks weren't well known for only having straight male heroes/Gods. Movies have had diverse leads and stories since movies first started. Same with video games. Its only popular video games from the last 2000s/2010s that sell well with straight males that do well with straight males, and some companies want to pander to that audience. Before that most game popular game characters were cartoon animals, weird monsters, genderless sprites/objects, or robots. Doesn't mean alternative don't exist, didn't exist, or aren't readily available.
When it comes to Hollywood, they certainly have been forced. Even many of those older stories have been white washed by Hollywood. I mean, how many depictions of Jesus have there been where he isn't a white guy? There have also been plenty of movies about gays and lesbians, which were made on a shoestring budget due to Hollywood not giving them the time of day and doomed to obscurity. Can you name any? Heck, there's been countless fanfictions with loads of LGBTQ representation for decades, a result of this group not getting any exposure in mainstream media and just writing their own shit.

And with videogames, you don't find it surprising that the moment human characters got semi-doable to render we mainly got white people? Even the game characters recognizeable as human from the pre-PS1 era are generally white, whether it's Mario, Link, Mega Man, or the characters from Metal Slug.

Yeah, there were always alternatives, but on the fringes, in the crevices. The popular, the default was and still largely is white, and straight, and usually male.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Kae

Ethereal
Legacy
May 8, 2020
5,691
597
118
Country
The Dreamlands
Gender
Lose 1d20 sanity points.
I will admit I don't really care about Harry Potter, never been a fan so I'm pretty indifferent to the whole thing and therefore unlikely to get it, not to mention I'm extremely sceptical of corps in general when it comes to these things and while I don't mind the option in the character creator it adds little to the story, it would be more meaningful if it was a named character with an actual story (Would be acceptable as a secondary character rather than the protagonist), whether that's as simple as some lines indicating the change and it being of little consequence or them having some difficulties because of it, as mentioned above by other posters a subplot about bathrooms could be interesting, however having the option is still nice though.
Just like Tracer being a lesbian has zero baring on her being a soldier in Overwatch. Or any number of other characters with non-explained sexual orientations. Because it means fuck all in the course of the game. Yet people still make a big deal out of this crap like labeling a fictional character means anything.

Let me ask a question. If there is no relationships or romance in a piece of fiction, what is the point of labeling them as gay, straight, bi, asexual, etc? Why not leave it blank and let the reader decide to make them whatever they want in their own mind? Why can't Tracer be a lesbian for those who want her to be, and why can't she be straight for others? Would that not allow for the player/reader to create their own bonds with a character if they so chose?

I perfectly understand options in game with romance ala Elder Scrolls, Mass Effect, etc etc. But why put it there when it has no place to be there as you said yourself?
Actually regarding the topic of Asexuality, or more accurately Aromanticism if the game isn't going to deal themes of sex, it could actually be seen as a pretty good artistic statement, having a character who has no interest in romance and having the plot decide that it doesn't matter would very much mean that there's nothing wrong with it, which is great because dealing with media telling you that the only way to be happy or to have a meaningful life is to find romantic love can be an existential nightmare and leads people to make bad decisions seeking that wonderful feeling that people describe but you somehow can't feel.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
4,961
988
118
Considering there's no history of straight people converted into being gay, but the other way around is still very much happening, that wouldn't be too surprising
I dunno about that. Many american senators with wives and kids have been caught getting gay blowjobs in very important bathrooms. It is a stereotype for a reason.

Most likely these people are bi with more leaning towards one preference or another.

Not that im excusing the practice of trying to "cure" the gay out of people either. I frankly dont understand why what gender people want to have sex with has anything to do with who they are as a person.

A great musician is a great musician no matter what. A great actor is great no matter what. A great doctor, lawyer, car salesman, and most importantly, person. A great person is great no matter race, gender, religion, or sexuallity (except the attracted to kids one).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dwarvenhobble

Bob_McMillan

Elite Member
May 11, 2020
3,345
275
88
Country
Philippines
I frankly dont understand why what gender people want to have sex with has anything to do with who they are as a person.

A great musician is a great musician no matter what. A great actor is great no matter what. A great doctor, lawyer, car salesman, and most importantly, person. A great person is great no matter race, gender, religion, or sexuallity (except the attracted to kids one).
Inherently it doesn't, but our world just so happens to be one where preferring sex with someone with the same tooling as you automatically makes your life harder to live. So achieving the same things as those without that handicap is admirable and inspiring, especially to those who share that situation.

I personally have never wanted to feel represented, or ever even felt represented for that matter, but then I've never personally been discriminated against because of my race or my religion. I don't think its something you can ever really understand unless you've lived in their shoes.
 

McElroy

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
4,030
135
68
Finland
Muggles invented gender. I bet it was those shameful mudbloods who wanted separate dorms to being with! Everyone wears robes and pointy hats in Hogwarts, don't they?

From a video game perspective character creation can be whatever the devs dare imagine. From the Wizarding World's perspective it's a muggle thing.
 

Hades

Elite Member
May 7, 2020
1,098
323
88
Country
The Netherlands
This is probably likely.

A quick look on Twitter to Jim Sterling and Laura Kate Dale and they are still just calling the game Biggoted and refuse to accept that the devs are trying to help. Which I think is just as bias as they claim Rowling to be. Which I've always felt is kind of counter-productive to the pursuit of acceptance.
Didn't Jim say that they feel bad for the devs working on it only for Rowling to go mask off despite their efforts?
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
4,961
988
118
Inherently it doesn't, but our world just so happens to be one where preferring sex with someone with the same tooling as you automatically makes your life harder to live.
What does that have to do with fictional characters? Does it make Harry Potter's live any harder in the fictional world if he were gay? Fictional characters live as hard of a life as the creators deem to impose on them regardless.

Would the latest Joker film resonate with people more if Arthur was also gay? Would the LBGTQ community favor watching a homosexual go through that kind of abuse? Because from what I've seen from the trans community's responses to hardships with trans characters, they don't particularly care for that shit. Ultimately it is a sticky situation, you try to appeal and it doesn't work so it just causes problems.

And again why does it matter? Furthermore the wokeness of things has only continued to grow, forcing long time voice actors to step away from roles because they're playing people not of their race. Simpsons and Family guy have both removed white actors from playing the black characters that they've voiced for decades. It's getting out of hand, and the strict focus on race only drives for more racism. Just like doing the same thing with gay/trans actors drives more phobia.
 

Hades

Elite Member
May 7, 2020
1,098
323
88
Country
The Netherlands
Does it make Harry Potter's live any harder in the fictional world if he were gay?
Looking at the Dursley's.....yeah. Yeah being gay probably would make it harder for Harry. They don't seem the types to respond very well to it.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
4,961
988
118
Looking at the Dursley's.....yeah. Yeah being gay probably would make it harder for Harry. They don't seem the types to respond very well to it.
But ultimately that's up to the author, not JK's opinions withstanding. There is no rule in fiction you would have to give a homosexual character extra strife,
 

Kae

Ethereal
Legacy
May 8, 2020
5,691
597
118
Country
The Dreamlands
Gender
Lose 1d20 sanity points.
I will add this, while I'm not a huge fan of representation just for the sake of representation as I I feel it doesn't make for particularly good stories or interesting stories and often tends to stereotype which isn't great, it'd be foolish to not acknowledge that media does genuinely affect how people act and it often leads people to think about things they hadn't before, which is precisely why representations is relevant and a good thing, most people think trans people are just like mentally ill, so having good relatable trans characters in media helps people see that we're really not different from other people, precisely by empathising with the "other", so even if I'm not a huge fan of it I understand why it's a thing.
There's also an argument to be made that it's just nice when you find a piece of media that just resonates with you, I'm sure we've all had that at some point, something that feels like "It just gets me", so having that is just cool, for me it's weird I've only felt that about a really cynical guarded girl from some Anime, and a character in a book that her whole deal was that she felt like she was losing her mind and could no longer tell what even was reality because she was struggling with a lot of traumatic events combined with literally the alteration of memories in order to try to forget those event and that's it, like I'll bet that most people have more than just two, I guess.

The other thing I will add is that the argument that representation doesn't matter comes across as really insincere and disingenuous when the people making it do it on every single thread about the topic and always have pages of stuff to say about it, like if it really doesn't matter why do you care so much about it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
4,961
988
118
I will add this, while I'm not a huge fan of representation just for the sake of representation as I I feel it doesn't make for particularly good stories or interesting stories and often tends to stereotype which isn't great, it'd be foolish to not acknowledge that media does genuinely affect how people act and it often leads people to think about things they hadn't before, which is precisely why representations is relevant and a good thing, most people think trans people are just like mentally ill, so having good relatable trans characters in media helps people see that we're really not different from other people, precisely by empathising with the "other", so even if I'm not a huge fan of it I understand why it's a thing
This is the most sound response I've seen. Because you also include the caveat that the characters must also be well written. I have said many times that the best answer for diversity is simply to have good writing, because good writing will automatically include a diverse cast of people as a nature of simply good story-telling.


There's also an argument to be made that it's just nice when you find a piece of media that just resonates with you, I'm sure we've all had that at some point, something that feels like "It just gets me", so having that is just cool, for me it's weird I've only felt that about a really cynical guarded girl from some Anime, and a character in a book that her whole deal was that she felt like she was losing her mind and could no longer tell what even was reality because she was struggling with a lot of traumatic events combined with literally the alteration of memories in order to try to forget those event and that's it, like I'll bet that most people have more than just two, I guess.
But this is where you lose me. There have been many piece of fiction that have resonated with me, and there are lots that have miss the mark for me. But never have they missed the mark because I don't share the same skin color, sexual orientation, or genitals of the main character.

Representation is nice, but only if included organically and there are lots of example of that.

Another thing that's important is that I feel like the progressives need to open up and be open to humor. Allow your identity to be the subject of self-reflective teasing, because humor is a great way to open up people that might not agree with your world view as a great way of letting them see that you go through the same funny shit that they go through.
 

Kae

Ethereal
Legacy
May 8, 2020
5,691
597
118
Country
The Dreamlands
Gender
Lose 1d20 sanity points.
But this is where you lose me. There have been many piece of fiction that have resonated with me, and there are lots that have miss the mark for me. But never have they missed the mark because I don't share the same skin color, sexual orientation, or genitals of the main character.
Except I just listed that, the two characters I allude to are Kumiko form an Anime called Sound Euphonium and Harrowhark Nonagesimus from series of books called The locked Tomb Trilogy (There's no 3rd book yet), both characters are cis women, one of them heterosexual but kind off ambiguously lesbian (Because Japan) the other a lesbian and a nun (so religious), one Japanese and the other white, I'm none of these things, however the experiences reflected in those stories are ones that resonate with me a lot because of my personal experiences.

The thing is that there's a set of experiences that only ever happens to certain groups of people, so there are certain things, emotions, stories, drama, fulfilment that can really only be communicated by having a character with those, and while I'm not saying it's required for me to relate to a character it should would be cool to see those stories and themes show up in media, it would be great to be able to point out to a film or a game or whatever and say "That's it, that's how I feel" or "That's what it's like", just because it would be cool, I don't think there needs to be another reason.

Another thing that's important is that I feel like the progressives need to open up and be open to humor. Allow your identity to be the subject of self-reflective teasing, because humor is a great way to open up people that might not agree with your world view as a great way of letting them see that you go through the same funny shit that they go through.
Humour is very much allowed, but the thing is that comedy is really fucking hard, so if you are going to make fun of something you better be damned good at making jokes, also you probably have never interacted with a lot of gay or trans people, because like there are jokes mocking each other like all the time.
Anyways, we must also take into account who is making the joke and why, it's not really a secret that trans people in particular have been used as a joke for a really long time, particularly trans women, where the whole joke is that "LOL she has penis that makes you gay" or "Gross she used to be a man" (Normally followed by a spit-take or puking), , which are things that can actually be pretty damaging to people, for example one of my uncles dated a trans-woman when he was younger, but because of how people treated them because of it and all the gay jokes, he distanced himself from her because he didn't want to be seen as a pervert which is both damaging to the woman that probably felt like a freak being told by society that she isn't deserving of love (I'm guessing) and it was damaging to my uncle that denied himself a relationship that could've been good as well as this leading him to make a lot of really stupid acts of macho posturing in order to affirm his masculinity to other people, a story BTW that I only heard because my dad was making fun of him by telling that story and that he still doesn't like to talk about though he has on a few occasions, most notably getting angry when people refer to her as a man.

In any case, my point being that even if something seems like just a silly harmless joke, it's not really always the case and it can genuinely have a negative or positive effect on people's lives, so I think it's reasonable to be weary of these kinds of humour, which is often what edgelords and conservatives refer to when they're complaining that they aren't allowed to make a joke.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan
Status
Not open for further replies.