Holy crap, Frozen suuuuuucks.

[MrHide-Patten]

My sister could tell that Hans was a sociopath from the get go and didn't know beforehand. Goes to show, sometimes the classic trope is modern creep. Granted I do think Frozen was a tad over-hyped along with Toy Story 3.

 

[Dandres]

I think Disney knew what they were doing when they made is movie. The target audience was young girls and people who like musicals. Out of the people I work with I have only heard of one person?s daughter not liking. Complain all you like but Disney does not care because you?re not the target audience and the target audience is going to get their parents to buy them all the Frozen merch they want. Also I would only rate this as middle of the road as far as animated kid movies go because there are a lot worse ones out there.

 

[Patathatapon]

As a cure for cancer, I agree, it is pretty terrible.


I think your primary issue was you went into it with very high expectations. I'm not saying the complaints you had are incorrect or wrong either, but they shine more because of what you expected it to be. I thought it was alright, but I was disappointed it didn't cure cancer.

 

[Drathnoxis]

Spoiler: Illogical Magic

It's magic; suspend your disbelief. If magic worked in a logical, predictable manner, what would be the point of it? If magic is just tantamount to advanced technology, a tool to expand narrative possibility, there's nothing unique about it. Supernatural elements in stories are a trade off, and there's no point in including them unless your getting something in return for the extra confidence your asking from your audience. Remember when Lucas tried to explain the Force? Remember how much that pissed people off? The lack of rational explanation, the ethereal nature of magic, is the source of it's appeal. It should trigger that primeval part of the human mind that doesn't insist that things make rational sense. The same part that fears the bump in the night that you try to explain away but are somehow unable to; the same part that wonders what mysteries are held by the endless, unexplored reaches of the universe. Trying to frame magic in terms of logic and science deprives it of it's... well... MAGIC.

Professor Rock Troll's School for Gifted Ice Gods
Yeah, this decision by Elsa and Anna's parents doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but I don't think it's the gaping plot hole it's typically framed as. I just assumed that the King and Queen were paranoid about their daughter's abilities and made an emotionally fueled, irrational decision. Plus, they died, so it's possible that no one else in the nobility even knew the trolls existed. As for Elsa herself, again, she's frightened of her own power, and the whole point of the story is her learning that she doesn't need to be.

BOOM, HEADSHOT!
I refer you to my previous comments. I have a feeling that your submitted essay on the thoroughly documented scientific effects of Ice Magic would not go over well with experts.

What is Love!? Baby, don't hurt me...
There's really nothing to be said of your opinion on the themes of the film. Personally, I don't take issue with love as a central idea in story telling, but I do take issue with how it's often overblown. Love is a powerful enough emotion and source of inspiration by itself, it doesn't need supernatural powers backing it up. What matters is that Elsa loves her sister, the idea of love also being an arbitrary curative for destructive magic is unnecessary, and diverts focus from the power love already has in the real world. Since love also needs to be the reason that Anna is saved, I understand their decision, but I'm not convinced a more grounded approach could not have been concocted. As for Elsa's confinement, this is a central plot point and theme. The idea isn't just that Elsa needs to feel love for Anna, she also has to express it so that the two of them can actually enjoy and benefit from that connection.

Whether or not it's magic, it should still have internal consistency within the work. If Elsa's magic requires her to be emotionally stable and feel love in order for her to control it, then she should not have absolute mastery over her gifts before her emotional arch reaches its climax. If they had taken a moment to explain why Elsa's control of her ice powers was simultaneously hindered and unhindered by her lack of love, that would have been fine. Unpredictability of magic I could handle, but it should be clear that the magic is supposed to be unpredictable because it's magic and not simply for the convenience of the plot. This is really the core of my issues, the inconsistency of magic in this movie doesn't evoke any sort of wonder or fantastic mystery, it just seems like the writers didn't care to make things consistent because "it's magic, who cares!" Plus, I would argue that the way they handled her magic, being dependent on her love, was utterly predictable - in a cliched sense.

Also, I guess this isn't really a fault of the movie, but I just hate it when characters are ridiculously super powered and have done nothing to earn their powers. It just seems so cheap when a character can do ridiculously awesome feats just because they were born that way, rather than having to work hard or suffer or have any sort of trade off for their powers. Like, she hasn't used her powers in 15 years and she just up and makes the most spectacular ice castle ever conceived in less than 5 minutes? Man, I couldn't even come up with the architecture for a castle like that in my head in 5 hours, let alone use my previously unused magic to make it a reality.

Spoiler: Stranger Danger

I cannot fathom what your issue is with Hans. None of the actions you presented as examples of his heroic nature are proof of it. I want to draw attention to a basic fact that is often ignored in movies; Lying is not a difficult thing to do. People lie all the time, in fact. Were you expecting Hans to try and connect with Anna, and then be unable to hold in his raging murderous instincts, causing him to explode in a psychotic frenzy and try to cut her in half? I think learning to play a part would be a pretty major aspect of growing up as a power hungry aristocrat, no?

Why does Hans act like he loves Anna? Because he wants to marry her and be king; can't do that if she refuses.

Why does Hans risk his life to saver Anna? Because he wants to marry her and be king; can't do that if she's DEAD.

Why does Hans not murder Anna's sister? Because she probably won't marry him if he murders her sister.

Why does Hans act kindly towards the populace of the kingdom he wants to run? Because he wants the residents of this foreign land he plans to covertly take over to like him, so that nobody suspect that he doesn't give a shit about them and revolt, and also because the rulers of this land will probably not want him to join their family if he treats their people like shit.

Why does Hans betray Anna and leave her to die? Because all he cares about is ruling her kingdom, and she's no use to him anymore. Better to skip the Princess and move straight for the Queen.

Why does Hans not cackle under his breath, rant about his evil plan, and generally act like a complete psychopath? Because most psychopaths don't want people to KNOW that they're psychopaths, so they don't act like psychopaths (Example: Real life serial killers).

Why does Hans act all heroic, and kind, and shit like that? Because he wants people to think he's heroic, and kind, and shit like that, as opposed to a ruthless killer (Example: Real life serial killers).

This is something I appreciate about the film; people don't fall in love over night, people lie, and being careless with your desires and feelings is just as dangerous as never expressing them. As for why Hans motivation is not just spelled out in the first five minutes, that's because having the audience in on the plot twist would undermine it's effects. We're supposed to understand why Anna could be taken in by this guy; what better way to do that than to have the audience get taken for the exact same ride?

Let it Show, Let it Show! Can't Explain the Plot Any More!
How do we know that Hans is actually a ruthless tyrant? Well, that becomes apparent when he attempts to murder Anna in cold blood.

The idea of "Show don't tell", is that you should demonstrate important aspects of your story instead of coldly informing your audience of them, because they won't emotionally internalize how important a piece of information is if it's delivered via lifeless exposition. "Show don't tell" doesn't mean you can't surprise your audience, or that you have to spell everything out for them, or that you can't leave them in the dark about certain things for dramatic effect.

My issue with Hans comes down to the fact that he pretty much becomes a different character once the big twist is revealed. It's not that it can't be justified after the fact, it's that it doesn't jell with what we've seen of Hans up to that point. Everything about his character is completely thrown out the window as soon as he refuses to kiss Anna and he becomes a standard power grubbing villain after his betrayal. It's really easy to make a character twist unexpected when you swap out the character for another one.

I mean, look at him with this dreamy smile here.
Anna already left, who was he trying to fool here? His horse?

Spoiler: How Kirstof and Anna Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Reindeer

Sorry you missed the memo, but that montage was only the span of a few hours at the most. The sun never rises, and when they go to see Elsa about getting engaged, the ball is still in full swing. Not much else to say there.

Something I would like to point out; I don't remember Kirstof and Anna ever actually saying they were in love. I remember Olof and the trolls pushing them into it, presumably because they were tired of Kirstof living at home and were concerned about his relationship with his increasingly perverse sexual fantasies. I could be wrong, but I think the operative idea here is that Anna and Kirstof aren't rushing into a commitment or projecting their fantasies onto each other. I can totally buy them developing attraction to each other having lived through a perilous situation together, and the film doesn't end with them getting hitched or anything, they just like each other.

It's time to revisit show don't tell. While it's true that Kirstof and Anna don't literally spend that much more time together than Hans and Anna, we the audience see a lot more of the prior relationship. The film subverts "Love at first sight" not by giving us a relationship that is literally different, but by allowing the audience to connect with a relationship over time instead of instantly. We get to know Kristof over the course of the whole movie, where as Hans and Anna's relationship is communicated in a matter of minutes over a song.

The key term here is metaphor. Hans and Kirstof's time spent with Anna are literally different; Hans and Anna have a bit less time, Hans is being dishonest, Anna is projecting a preconceived fantasy onto the relationship, and the two of them commit to a marriage; Anna and Kirstof have about three times as much time to get to know each other, the two of them are always up front about who they are, they start out as friends and don't try to define the relationship before it has a chance to develop, and they ultimately just express how they feel without committing to anything long term (Kirstof has to take some time to get therapy; his lack of human contact and sexual fascination with reindeer took him to a dark place...).

But more importantly, the two relationships are metaphorically different. The way the film presents the relationship with Hans to the audience is steeped in theatrics and unrealistic fantasy; the whole things is a song full of extraordinary imagery. While Kristof does get a song as well, his relationship with Anna is a great deal more grounded. They just talk, hang out, and go through some shit together.

One is a fantasy of a perfect love that doesn't exist, where the people involved are secondary to the idea of love itself. The other is a realistic relationship between two flawed people, where the trappings and glamour of romance are of less importance than the connection between the participants.

I'm not here to argue that this is some great love story; I think it's perfectly decent, but it didn't make my heart sing. It is, however, entirely appropriate for the overarching themes of the film.

This was probably one of my weakest points. I'll admit that the relationships are quite a bit different and that I was stretching a bit by saying they were pretty much the same. Still If Kristof/Anna counts as a subversion of "love at first sight" for a Disney movie, then what about Beauty and the Beast, Lion King, Hunchback of Notre Dame, or even Lady and the Tramp (I think). I don't really get all the fuss that people are making when this sort of thing isn't exactly uncommon for Disney films that came out after the 60s.

Spoiler: Snip

A 300 page long, excruciatingly detailed essay on why Frozen's songs are the pinnacle of human achievement, followed by my book "Let It Go: Our National Anthem in All but Name"
Just kidding. I could take or leave most of the songs. In the interest of full disclosure: My favorite is Let it Go; catchy, decent lyrics, fits the story. My least favorite is Little Bit of Love; I neither understood most of the lyrics, nor do I care to. Doesn't fit the story quite so well.

Anna as a Character
Not a whole lot to say on that front. I did get a good chuckle out of the image of a giddy Disney cartoon plummeting to her death mid song. I'll just say that I don't have a problem with her and leave it at that.

Masterpiece?
To answer your last question; no I don't think Frozen is excellent. I have overall net positive feelings about the film, but I'm not head over heels for it like some people are. It's a good film that differs from the norm in some appreciable ways, but it's not gonna light my world on fire.

By the way, I just want to say I enjoyed the subtitles you gave each section of your post, they were quite amusing.

 

[Fishyash]

I quite liked Frozen myself. As a music guy I mainly watched it for the music which I found very enjoyable besides Let it Go (as someone who enjoys, yet isn't very experienced, with musical theatre). The songs are definitely what I'd call "modern Broadway", which honestly despite being cheesy is a style I really like. Frozen will probably be highly successful on Broadway. I liked the songs enough that I bought the piano/vocal selections book and learned 4 of the songs from that (although that was a while ago, I ought to go ahead and practice them again).

Honestly for me, plot is definitely the least important part of whether I enjoy a film or not. I'm more interested in the visuals (in this case animation and art style), (voice) acting, sound design, music and overall storytelling than the actual plot itself.

The plot was indeed kinda shit, for similar reasons mentioned in the OP. They botched the storytelling too, (the Hans plot twist was done very poorly). I felt everything else was good enough for me to consider it a good film, despite the poor story.

Still though, nothing I have watched has captured the magic of Disney the way Pinocchio has for me. Maybe it's nostalgia talking though...

 

[GodzillaGuy92]

Utterly Missing the Point at Every Turn: The Thread.

 

[wildstyle96]

I think the storyline problems stem from the fact that Elsa was meant to be the protagonist originally but it was changed after they saw how great a character she was. Which possibly explains Hans 0-100 character change for no reason.

On the subject of magic, just because it's a kids film and magic doesn't mean all reasoning goes out the window. At least have some kind of logic to the things that happen. I still haven't seen Frozen, thank the tumblr users for that; spoilers galore. (no point in watching)

 

[Mate397]

Frozen was just meh, stupidly over-praised and over-hyped, nothing special was in it so I never really understood why is everybody loving it so much as if it's the second coming of Christ or something, plus the songs were meh too, sure for little girls under 10 it might look nice but an adult should see it's just another cliché princess story.