Homosexuality in ME3

[Epona]

Bioware's newest dating sim. You guys remember when they made RPG's?

 

[Vault101]

So apparently Shepard also has to "come out" in ME2 from ME1 about suddenly being able to vault over cover. And suddenly slow down time.

I just wish Bioware had had the balls to include fully romance-attemptable at least (i'm gonna go with the Samara cockblock bit as being actually pretty well done and a cool character moment-not every character needs to be able to be romanced SUCCESFULLY) back in the ME1 days. Moreover, it'd be kind of hilarious if each character had a "type"--oh what's that, your shepard isn't a blonde? welp, no luck for you there.

hahaha..thats actually pretty funny

I was a little annoyed that everytime I spoke to Jacob it was like I was trying to get into his pants...he was suposed to be the Kaiden replacment..but even Kiaden was mroe itneresting than him

Bioware's newest dating sim. You guys remember when they made RPG's?

oh come off it, its a completly optional part of the series

 

[boag]

So apparently Shepard also has to "come out" in ME2 from ME1 about suddenly being able to vault over cover. And suddenly slow down time.

I just wish Bioware had had the balls to include fully romance-attemptable at least (i'm gonna go with the Samara cockblock bit as being actually pretty well done and a cool character moment-not every character needs to be able to be romanced SUCCESFULLY) back in the ME1 days. Moreover, it'd be kind of hilarious if each character had a "type"--oh what's that, your shepard isn't a blonde? welp, no luck for you there.

that would actually be a pretty good mechanic for the waifu simulaator part of the game, im all for it

 

[SageRuffin]

My Fem [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Ruffin316/Hi-Def%20Sage%20Screens/ErikaAllisonShepard3.jpg]Shep [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Ruffin316/Hi-Def%20Sage%20Screens/QueryStandardErika.jpg] has only had the hots for Ashley, speaking in terms of role-playing, of course. Kaidan was "eh", and Liara was a little too meager for Erika's tastes (that's my FemShep's name). but here was Ashley... rugged, battle-tested, and not afraid to give you a few extra orifices. She has her flaws (she's NOT fucking racist!), but Erika was cool with that. Erika had a great admiration for the Chief, and the Chief had great admiration for the "Butcher of Torfan."

Then came ME2's options. Jacob was okay if a little too ghetto at times (my own annoyance with the sultry tone of FemShep's lines when speaking to him notwithstanding), Garrus came off as more of a slightly psychotic drinking buddy (same goes for Zaeed), and Thane was simply just... there taking up space. Even if "eating at the Y" was an option like was originally in store, Tali was nothing more than a simple friend, and all Erika wanted to do with Jack was punch her hard enough to knock her tattoos out of her skin. Erika has too much respect for Samara to try and hook up with her, and Kasumi's lady-boner over Jacob definitely removed her from any equations (no, fuck you and your threesome suggestions). Miranda, however... there was apprehension at first, but she wasn't so bad once you talked to her enough. I always imagine Miranda having a bit of a girl-crush on Erika after all's said and done with the campaign.

Erika still can't forget Ash though... breaking shit on Therum, the brief squabble between her and Wrex over the rachni queen, the shock at losing Kaidan on Virmire... they've been through some shit. And then came Horizon and that exchange... here, I like to imagine Erika either putting a rage-fueled fist into her aquarium or sitting under the showerhead in the bathroom, the hot water masking silent tears of heartbreak.

Oh yeah... Kelly. She's a cute one, but I imagine Erika not really trying to get down and dirty with the yeoman considering the limited contact. I know you can kinda make anything happen during the lulls in missions or even gameplay sessions entirely, but that's what I've been rolling with so far.

But here's hoping Erika and Ash can reconcile their past mistakes. I at least wanna imagine the two sharing a final kiss a la The Force Unleashed before Erika goes out in a blaze of glory (yeah, I'm fully expecting either Shep to die at the end, a bittersweet ending, but one I can roll with).

---

Query: What this "coming out" subplot I keep hearing about? If it's what I think it is then that sounds like a completely terrible idea and just smacks of bad design choices, not to mention it also kinda implies that BioWare (or EA... or both) assumes that their fans have no imagination whatsoever. Seems like their trying too hard.

 

[SageRuffin]

Bioware's newest dating sim. You guys remember when they made RPG's?

oh come off it, its a completly optional part of the series

I dunno... have you ever been to the GameFAQs forums? Or even the BioWare site itself?

But hey, they're still better than rabid yaoi fangirls (note my choice of words there), if you can believe that one...

 

[WonderWillard]

I understand that it's optional for Shepard to be gay, but I think that if you play as a straight Shepard, then someone else on the crew WILL be gay. Now that part, I don't like. Bioware is forcing homosexuality into the game when it was not in the first or second games. I know that people are bringing up Liara, but it made sense with the established lore with Liara being an asari and all. Maybe I'm being a little homophobic or enforcing a double standard, but it will just be jarring for me if I'm walking around the Normandy and I find a gay couple.

 

[Darh Abdomino]

You know, I keep trying people who actually hate the idea of homosexuality in ME, but the only ones I've found are on this thread. Everywhere else, it's people bitching about the people bitching.

That said, I don't care. Put it in (Pardon the unintentional pun), obviously there is a group for it, and the chances it takes resources from other parts of the game in any significant amount are next to nil.

The idea that you can get "too friendly", so to speak, with a male character (and find yourself in what I'm sure is going to be the highlight of FOX News), is a slightly valid concern, in that in similar games (Dragon Age II comes to mind) rejection of a LI nets rivalry/dark side/baddy bad of badness when you're going for a Space Jesus/Elven Jesus/Goody good of goodness Jesus can be rather frustrating, but that's where save points and the internet come to save the day.

Sorry for any swearing that snuck in there, this topic is starting to grate.

Disclaimer:

Spoiler

I'm not gay, I'm not, what's the word these days, "progressive"? I'm just a fundi Christian who simply wants people to quit giving him weird looks when they find out that I don't damn them all to Hell.

 

[Mikeyfell]

2. you can fuck Aliens...[/B]

Hey, a dick is a dick. Alien or human, doesn't matter, still a dick.

3. ROLE PLAYING [/B]

and this one I cant stress enough, it seems easy to forget that underneith everything ,ME was originally a role playing game

and there is no "canon"

So that means that YOU decide what shepard is like...My femshep has no interest in Aliens, what so ever, just because the game gives me the option does NOT make it true, she's not going to screw Garrus and she never will or even consider screwing Garrus, or ashley or Liara

so from that as far as Im concerned my Femshep is straight

just like now maleshep and be as straight and gay as YOU want

and thats my opinion..whats yours? (god forbid)

Okay, here's the real thing I was going to say.

(I totally support gayness in Mass Effect and want to see more gay and Bi characters in RPG's and games in general.)

There is one issue that I do have with that.
Yes, there is no Cannon, and Shepard is an undefined character who should be free to pursue any character (s)he wants to, the other characters do have defined personalities.
You (as Shepard) should be able to flirt with any male/female/alien crew member, but if they are strait/gay/xenophobic they will turn you down. (I know they did that with Samara)
My Femshep was gay and wanted to sleep with Jack but the option wasn't even there to try. If the option was there, even to get shot down she could have at least stayed true to her character.(Even though Jack says she's bisexual in one of the earlier conversations, I raged hard at that)

That's also what annoyed me about Dragon Age 2, all the characters were Bi, but that's only because they never bring up Hawke's gender in any of the relationship scenes.

 

[Vault101]

I understand that it's optional for Shepard to be gay, but I think that if you play as a straight Shepard, then someone else on the crew WILL be gay. Now that part, I don't like. Bioware is forcing homosexuality into the game when it was not in the first or second games. I know that people are bringing up Liara, but it made sense with the established lore with Liara being an asari and all. Maybe I'm being a little homophobic or enforcing a double standard, but it will just be jarring for me if I'm walking around the Normandy and I find a gay couple.

thats like saying children shouldnt exist in the ME universe because you dont see them "in-game"

if aliens can exist why not gay people?

 

[Vault101]

My Fem [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Ruffin316/Hi-Def%20Sage%20Screens/ErikaAllisonShepard3.jpg]Shep [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Ruffin316/Hi-Def%20Sage%20Screens/QueryStandardErika.jpg] has only had the hots for Ashley, speaking in terms of role-playing, of course. Kaidan was "eh", and Liara was a little too meager for Erika's tastes (that's my FemShep's name). but here was Ashley... rugged, battle-tested, and not afraid to give you a few extra orifices. She has her flaws (she's NOT fucking racist!), but Erika was cool with that. Erika had a great admiration for the Chief, and the Chief had great admiration for the "Butcher of Torfan."
.

Im glad to see SOMONE that doesnt hate ashley with a buring passion

I actually chose to save ashley the very first time on virmire, it was only then I realised that one of them REALLY DID die that I figured I may as well play out the romance (and so achly has died everytime)

I think femshep and ashly go great togehter, I might have even romanced her if I could

 

[Heaven's Guardian]

Part of it is that Mass Effect was never a true open-world RPG. Shepard was a well-defined character for the most part and it seems like pandering to throw in a "oh, now you can make him gay" option in the last game. In fact, it means that once again we have a character whose backstory we aren't getting without initiating a relationship. I personally dislike the idea of creating a fully-customizable character in all RPGs, because story usually depends on characters having fairly intricate details. I don't think many of us would complain if it were present at the beginning, but to me it looks like a retcon and I don't much care for retcons.

Also, I'm assuming that we aren't getting through ME3 without the deaths of one or more squad members even in a golden ending. (If someone has spoilers, DO NOT correct me on this). Assuming Vega is going to be the male gay option, and that we will have to kill a character, and that a lot of people are going to decide to kill off the newbie because we don't have any real affection for him from previous games: won't it look like a lot of us are just killing off the gay dude? I mean, I've already decided that he can die if it means getting to keep one of my more-liked squadmates alive, which I think a lot of other people are going to do. Will love to see the reaction if that happens and BioWare sees a 70%+ kill rate for the guy.

 

[WonderWillard]

I understand that it's optional for Shepard to be gay, but I think that if you play as a straight Shepard, then someone else on the crew WILL be gay. Now that part, I don't like. Bioware is forcing homosexuality into the game when it was not in the first or second games. I know that people are bringing up Liara, but it made sense with the established lore with Liara being an asari and all. Maybe I'm being a little homophobic or enforcing a double standard, but it will just be jarring for me if I'm walking around the Normandy and I find a gay couple.

thats like saying children shouldnt exist in the ME universe because you dont see them "in-game"

if aliens can exist why not gay people?

My point is more that they are only adding it in now. Take Dragon Age, they had gay romances in Origins, so it was no surprise that they were in the second game. I wouldn't be griping if it was there in Mass Effect 1 and 2, but it wasn't, so I am.

Part of it is that Mass Effect was never a true open-world RPG. Shepard was a well-defined character for the most part and it seems like pandering to throw in a "oh, now you can make him gay" option in the last game.

Shepard is a bit of a blank slate, but didn't Bioware even come out and discuss their stance on homosexuality in the ME series? I'm pretty sure they said that you could be gay in Dragon Age because the Grey Warden was a completely open character, and that Shepard was a bit less open. You can make choices, but they do have a bit of a defined character for him, and being gay was not a part of that. I don't understand why they are adding it now, and it does feel a little like pandering.

 

[CyanideSandwich]

Once, just once, I'd like to play a homosexual protagonist. And not one that's all, "Look at me, I'm gay!" and makes it a core part of the story, but someone who just happens to be gay and isn't stereotypical about it. (Not one where you choose to be gay, either, one where the character you play is gay.)

 

[WonderWillard]

Part of it is that Mass Effect was never a true open-world RPG. Shepard was a well-defined character for the most part and it seems like pandering to throw in a "oh, now you can make him gay" option in the last game.

Shepard is a bit of a blank slate, but didn't Bioware even come out and discuss their stance on homosexuality in the ME series? I'm pretty sure they said that you could be gay in Dragon Age because the Grey Warden was a completely open character, and that Shepard was a bit less open. You can make choices, but they do have a bit of a defined character for him, and being gay was not a part of that. I don't understand why they are adding it now, and it does feel a little like pandering.

Where was it that his character was defined as straight? I see nowhere where it is determined. It looks like it is left open, but for some reason people are deciding that, for no real reason, Shepard must be straight.

This is a whole article about homosexuality in Mass Effect, or the lack thereof.
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9026170

Ray Muzyka says this about the issue: "Sometimes, in some of our games, we are going to have a defined character with a more defined view. Almost like a third-person narrative -- where Mass Effect is more in that vein, Dragon Age isn?t in that vein; you could see the differences between the two. It?s just part of the design and the choices made for each game."

I just don't understand why they had this stance, then decided to go against it in Mass Effect 3.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

From memory, the biggest complaint people had was that their Shepard might be "accidentally" homosexual.
That is, the player might inadvertently click dialogue options "a bit too friendly" and spark a love interest where it's not wanted.

.

That may be a bit more of a valid concern now that every dialog wheel only consists of two options, but I didn't understand it before.

Seriously though, I think it's good that you can be gay, but it depends on who you can be gay with if it seems like tasteless pandering or not. For example, Garrus is obviously strait in the first two games. He talks about women in a way that shows he's interested in them, I'm pretty sure he eggs Shepard on when he's nailing them, and he never makes a pass at you. If ME3 lets you turn your bone on him it will make no sense to the character and will just seem like Bioware cares more about pleasing their fanbase than they do about genuinely writing a character, which very well may be the case.

On an unrelated note, I think it would be hilariously fitting to make the buff marine guy either exclusively gay or at very least a gay romance option. It would also be a nice touch if you choose whether Shep is a top or a bottom but that may be taking it a bit too far.

 

[Demongeneral109]

I didn't agree with you. I was saying okay for simplicity's sake.

so you don't think they have pandered to their audience in the past?

And you haven't answered the question. Why is it okay?

Because people are entitled to express their opinions, like how you and I are doing now.

And furthermore why is this not okay? Why should they be not allowed to explore sexuality?

This is a video game, not a gender studies/philosophy class, so I rather not have this video game talk to me about LGBT/sexuality topics. ME is a sci-fi action game, so I'd perfure them to focus on sci-fi and action. I don't need ME telling me about LGBT/sexuality topics anymore than I need ME telling me what my religion should be. There is a time and a place, and (imo) ME is neither of those when it comes to the subject of sexuality. Perhaps a game like Heavy Rain can cover such a topic.

And what is your definition of pandering because as far as I can tell it's having anything other then straight males on screen.

...no. Having a krogan or a geth on screen would not be pandering.

As far as the incident with Jennifer Harper has nothing to do with this thread as she doesn't work on Mass Effect. And I will ignore your offensive use of the word "repulsed".

You can ignore it all you want, it doesn't mean that I don't feel that way when I see men(not including a father and son) kiss.

just pointing out; Ash does discuss religion in ME1, she has strong religious beliefs; which, according to her dialogue, leaves most people somewhat incredulous... ME is more than just a game, its a story; in the rich world of customs and cultures in the ME universe, the idea of not discussing religion, racism/speciesism, or even sexuality is a waste of its potential

Now, to the people that complain about Bioware derping implementation of romances, I would argue that a decent fix to that might be only if the romance-able character is in your party more than 50% of the time? The discussions to indicate a growing trust between the party members; i imagine that comes with the filler we don't see in the game, the crew just hanging out between loading screens and warp-jumps. If we add the party idea, then the relationship is logically stronger with the members watching eachother in life-or-death struggles... Thoughts?

 

[Demongeneral109]

My Fem [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Ruffin316/Hi-Def%20Sage%20Screens/ErikaAllisonShepard3.jpg]Shep [http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v602/Ruffin316/Hi-Def%20Sage%20Screens/QueryStandardErika.jpg] has only had the hots for Ashley, speaking in terms of role-playing, of course. Kaidan was "eh", and Liara was a little too meager for Erika's tastes (that's my FemShep's name). but here was Ashley... rugged, battle-tested, and not afraid to give you a few extra orifices. She has her flaws (she's NOT fucking racist!), but Erika was cool with that. Erika had a great admiration for the Chief, and the Chief had great admiration for the "Butcher of Torfan."
.

Im glad to see SOMONE that doesnt hate ashley with a buring passion

I actually chose to save ashley the very first time on virmire, it was only then I realised that one of them REALLY DID die that I figured I may as well play out the romance (and so achly has died everytime)

I think femshep and ashly go great togehter, I might have even romanced her if I could

Agreed, the thing is that im pretty sure she was supposed to be a romance option for FemShep originally, but they took it out before release for one reason or another. They forgot to take out the subtext though, so I was waiting for her to make a move but it didn't happen... I wonder if it will in ME3?

 

[Demongeneral109]

So apparently Shepard also has to "come out" in ME2 from ME1 about suddenly being able to vault over cover. And suddenly slow down time.

I just wish Bioware had had the balls to include fully romance-attemptable at least (i'm gonna go with the Samara cockblock bit as being actually pretty well done and a cool character moment-not every character needs to be able to be romanced SUCCESFULLY) back in the ME1 days. Moreover, it'd be kind of hilarious if each character had a "type"--oh what's that, your shepard isn't a blonde? welp, no luck for you there.

hahaha..thats actually pretty funny

I was a little annoyed that everytime I spoke to Jacob it was like I was trying to get into his pants...he was suposed to be the Kaiden replacment..but even Kiaden was mroe itneresting than him

but the priiize...(sorry, contractually obligated to make that joke whenever Jacob is mentioned in a relational context)

Bioware's newest dating sim. You guys remember when they made RPG's?

oh come off it, its a completly optional part of the series[/quote]

Also, isn't who your Shepard loves an important aspect of playing his/her role?

 

[Prof. Monkeypox]

I think gay and lesbian relationships in the ME universe are perfectly valid and entirely acceptable. However, I don't want any recurring characters from the first two games, who already indicated their heterosexual nature to suddenly turn gay. That'd just be silly, and (I'd argue) offensive to both fans of those characters (because it rewrites their bios) and to homosexuals in general (as it implies homosexuality can just be flipped on and off as is convenient to the story).

I can accept that some characters may have ambiguous sexual orientations, but there are at least a handful with a definitely heterosexual orientations. Having them suddenly become homosexual or bisexual would just be weird.

 

[Samus Aran but a man]

I don't really get why people are making a big deal of it, but maybe I don't care because I am a homo myself (However I love Tali too much to sleep with anyone else, so I'll save gayShep for my 2nd playthrough).

Also WOAH guys that Jennifer Hepler thing isn't real