Hotline Miami 2 Devs Remove "Rape Scene" From Demo

[DerangedHobo]

I know 'lol double standards' and all but can someone please explain to me why I can not only brutally murder in games but get points for it too and a rape scene or even an implied rape scene IS SO OUT THERE! What the fuck?

 

[Amir Kondori]

There was no rape scene first of all, there was a scene where rape was implied to be ABOUT to happen, and then was revealed to be part of a movie shoot.
In any case I trust these guys to use this stuff to make a point, in fact the response and discussion it has prompted makes me think it is a very good point to make and something we should be thinking about ourselves.

 

[JazzJack2]

The context of my larger argument is that rape and murder are SEPERATE words confined by SEPERATE definitions and requirements for them to be true. Rape being a matter of the will of the individual, while Murder is a construct of the rule of law.

I may have identified the source of our disagreement. What you would call "murder" outside the rule of law I would call "willful homicide", especially after looking up the definition of murder and seeing that it is dependent on the rule of law for that definition to be satisfied

No murder is not a construct of law, what constitutes justification for killing is actually a construct of personal legality/morality. It is of course dependent on law in the sense that a legal precedent is required to vindicate this morality and give it worth, but a murder is still a murder even if there is no legal precedent by which you can achieve justice for the crime. But if you want to argue that this dependency on law makes murder a legal construct you cannot not argue that rape is not also a legal construct. A persons right to consent and to have personal freedom are of course moralistic and not legal concepts, but they are entirely dependent on law to vindicate them in the same way as it is required for murder.
This why I think your distinction is entirely erroneous, as an analogy imagine a post-apoc world where there is no legal system. Now if someone kills someone unjustly you would say this cannot constitute murder because there is no rule of law to hold him to account or to establish this killing as unjust as opposed to just. So why is rape different? If someone forces someone to have sex with them in this world it is surely not rape because there is no rule of law to establish a persons right to their own personal freedom.

Another part of that context is that killing can be justified whereas rape cannot.

Interesting that you seem to argue morality is subjective but then force your view that rape cannot be justified as if it where objective truth.

Unjustified killing is what we commonly refer to as "murder". We typically rely on the rule of law to determine whether that justification has been met.

Except that's not true and it only seems that way because people in the west largely agree with their Government's view of what constitutes murder, but there are clear cases where people have a large disagreement with the state for what is 'legal' e.g a Government that has capital punishment or one that commits genocide, these are not established as murder in the Government's own legal system but clearly do constitute murder to any sane citizens who holds his government legally accountable.

Here's a good video of Noam Chomsky explaining the difference between what is personally legal and what the state defines as legal.

 

[Adultism]

Does not matter. Game will be amazing and this is pretty old news.

Also how does murdering tons of dudes not prove to be slightly offensive? Hell Hotline Miami was one of those games that pushed the boundaries and I loved it.

EDIT: I'mma let you finish, but Hotline Miami had one of the best stories of all time. As well as a beast mode soundtrack

 

[Dante dynamite]

Ok, ok, I admit to using an "extreme" edge to try to prove my point. I don't feel it was an overreaction, per se. And I was merely venting my frustration at the people who demonize the feminism movement and concoct paranoid conspiracy theories about their actions independent of definitive knowledge of their actual involvement or intent. Your follow-up statement clearly places you outside of that group. I apologize for any implication that you were part of that group. I certainly didn't mean to say that you were. We both seem to be bothered by the level of vitriolic hyperbole that boils up over this issue.

I am not sure why you are offended by the "social media" comment. In my experience I have seen many people in many walks of life claim things have gotten worse when in reality it's only been increased media exposure of something that's been happening all along with either the same frequency or even a declining frequency. I sometimes have to remind myself of this. If this forum and other forums were not so prevalent these "toxic discussions" would be happening with less frequency and they would have a smaller audience. "Social justice warriors" use social media for communication between themselves and as a platform to broadcast their ideas.

Specifically I hopped into this thread because I wanted to defend the exchange that happened between the developers and the people that were bothered by the content of their demo. Not every artist creates for an audience or is concerned with the reaction of an audience, but these developers are. It can be hard to judge the reaction of other people to things. The developers of this game did seem genuinely surprised at the reaction their demo received. It wasn't the reaction they wanted. They made changes accordingly.

I too fail to see the problem or need for a "toxic discussion", nor would I characterize the original exchange as a "shitstorm". I do leave open the possibility that it might have been. The content of the article at best uses incomplete/inconclusive evidence.

Well thanks for apologizing.

I took the social media comment badly because i though you were implying i was narrow minded or something. I also thought you were talking about the Feminism and sexism thing in general.

I came to this forum because usually people go of saying that if they changed it, it was probably shit or they didn't believe in it in the first place regardless if the creator was harassed or not because if the creator thought it was good they wouldn't have succumbed, I thought you were saying something like that but you've now made it clear you are talking about this situation so I'm sorry for the misinterpretation it seems I have made a mistake

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

Oh, please. Stick to your guns, Devolver, going back on your decision that has overall no effect on the actual game is weaksauce. Don't change your mind right before the game is released.

 

[JazzJack2]

Eight pages of bollocks. It's almost certainly too late, but here's a short heads-up for you manchildren:

IS IRRELEVANT, YOU FUCKING DOLTS. KILLING IN SELF-DEFENSE IS NOT FUCKING MURDER.

Thank you for your precious Cheeto-gobbling time.

Well then clearly you haven't played HM since all the killings your character commits are murders and there is not a single instance of self defense.