Hotline Miami 2 Refused Classification in Australia - Update

[laggyteabag]

What is the point of an 18+ rating if they are just going to ban games anyway? All this is going to do is boost piracy for the game, and that doesn't benefit anyone.

If an adult is more than happy to watch a bunch of pixels have their way with another group of pixels in a video game (of which the classification board described out of context), why does some group of people across the country whom you have never met get a say in whether or not that is right to watch?

Whats wrong with something like

Hotline Miami 2
18+
This game contains scenes of intense violence and implied sexual assault.

Then just stick that on the store page.

 

[hermes]

While it sucks for Australians that your ratings agency is run by puritan baboons, I have to appreciate the graphic and explicit depiction of the scene.

Good for you, baboon #1685. That is some E.L. James in the making grade of quality...

 

[tzimize]

So what's this means for me? Buy the damn thing online?

Seriously, fuck these people. Fuck them with a rusty spork that's covered in rape and sexual content, just so that they'll feel extra naughty. We have an R+18 rating for this reason. Adults can choose this. Children CANNOT, I repeat, CANNOT purchase this game. But no, adults can't choose.

I guess that new game about a rape victim, Autumn I think, that should be banned. Why, that even puts the player in a position that lets them see the whole experience from start to finish (NOTE: The board just thinks that this is what happens, they couldn't figure out the movement keys.) That shocking, horrid game must be burnt at the stake lest the children see!

CENSORSHIP, HO!

...

(I imagine this is the part where the grannies board their SS Censor-Ship and sail off with Tony Abbott to shoot any cargo ships containing Hotline Miami 2.)

Hehehehehehehe, the SS Censor-Ship. I like that. I like that a lot.

 

[Revolutionary]

Oh, this shit again? Ugh.

Spoiler: UGHHHH What do we even do about this?

Devolver I love you but I'm not buying a censored game.

 

[RicoADF]

Ugh. What is with the fucking Australian government and video games? This really IS censorship this time.

Speaking of Hotline Miami 2, when the FUCK is it coming out?

Err this isn't a videogame thing, if only these sites stopped depicting it as such. Games have been brought upto movie's level, but even movies are ruled by these restrictions. Basically because of a rape scene which they believe had no artistic merit.

That said as always we can just import it, which is why this is not censorship and people need to learn what it means. If it was censorship it would be illegal to possess the unedited movie/game etc which it is not. I can legally buy this game from an online store an import it. It's only the sale of these games in stores that's restricted.

Well, that's fucking stupid. Wasn't this the entire point of R18+, so games that would until then have to be banned or censored can now just be slapped with R18+ and adults can finally not be treated like fucking children? Laughably funny really, maybe this is the ratings board going fuck you to everyone who campaigned for R18+.

Also, isn't that bit actually part of a movie they're doing? Seem to recall the plot having 2 parts, a movie thing that isn't real, obviously, and a gang that's inspired by the guy in the first game?

What is the point of an 18+ rating if they are just going to ban games anyway? All this is going to do is boost piracy for the game, and that doesn't benefit anyone.*SNIP*

No, the point was to bring it to the same level as movies which have R18+. That does not mean you can depict anything you want.

Does this mean I can't buy the game at all (I live in Australia)? Can I buy it on Steam, or does refused classification only apply to retail.

If this refused classification bullshit means I can't legally purchase and play the game, the Classification board can go f*** itself, I really liked the first game and I've been waiting months to play the second game.

Why can't adults buy whatever the hell they want, why does the government have to butt in and dictate what is appopriate for adults to consume?

You can just buy the game from an online store or a gray importer such as ozgameshop.
Because our society has decided that we don't want movies/games etc that show drugs as being a good thing you should do or that rape is acceptable etc. That's what these restrictions are for, and movies/games/TV/music etc are all given the same rules now that games have R18+. Previously games were gimped at M15+ levels.

But I really want to buy this from GOG.

Then buy it, I probably will too. It's not illegal to purchase, own or play. As long as the store sells it knock yourself out

 

[Metalrocks]

crap like this makes me happier that i have moved away from this country. also for other reasons that has nothing to do with any entertainment medium but looks like 18+ rating is still a huge problem for these idiots to think straight. they must have monkeys sitting there who do all the decisions.

 

[Ronald Nand]

Does this mean I can't buy the game at all (I live in Australia)? Can I buy it on Steam, or does refused classification only apply to retail.

If this refused classification bullshit means I can't legally purchase and play the game, the Classification board can go f*** itself, I really liked the first game and I've been waiting months to play the second game.

Why can't adults buy whatever the hell they want, why does the government have to butt in and dictate what is appopriate for adults to consume?

You can just buy the game from an online store or a gray importer such as ozgameshop.
Because our society has decided that we don't want movies/games etc that show drugs as being a good thing you should do or that rape is acceptable etc. That's what these restrictions are for, and movies/games/TV/music etc are all given the same rules now that games have R18+. Previously games were gimped at M15+ levels.

But I really want to buy this from GOG.

Then buy it, I probably will too. It's not illegal to purchase, own or play. As long as the store sells it knock yourself out

So I can still buy the game from Steam and GOG then, that's great. What's really the point of this refused classification thing anyway, I don't think this game will be sold by any retailer, as far as I know they don't stock indie titles like Hotline Miami, its mostly digital distribution isn't it.

As long as I can buy the game somewhere I'm happy though.

 

[EbonBehelit]

"Too offensive for Australians"

It's like these people don't actually live in this country or something.

 

[Trishbot]

Don't you just love governments telling adults what type of harmless entertainment they can and can't enjoy?

 

[Genocidicles]

Does this mean I can't buy the game at all (I live in Australia)? Can I buy it on Steam, or does refused classification only apply to retail.

If this refused classification bullshit means I can't legally purchase and play the game, the Classification board can go f*** itself, I really liked the first game and I've been waiting months to play the second game.

Why can't adults buy whatever the hell they want, why does the government have to butt in and dictate what is appopriate for adults to consume?

You can just buy the game from an online store or a gray importer such as ozgameshop.
Because our society has decided that we don't want movies/games etc that show drugs as being a good thing you should do or that rape is acceptable etc. That's what these restrictions are for, and movies/games/TV/music etc are all given the same rules now that games have R18+. Previously games were gimped at M15+ levels.

But I really want to buy this from GOG.

Then buy it, I probably will too. It's not illegal to purchase, own or play. As long as the store sells it knock yourself out

It's a digital game. They're not making any physical copies. So banning it like this implies they're banning it from being sold on a digital storefront.

I'm sure there's a way to get access to another country's steam store with a proxy or whatever, but still.

 

[Neeckin]

Oh fuck me. It's fine to bash a duds head in with a baseball bat but it's a make believe rape scene that pushes it over the edge? Where is the consistency?

 

[Haerthan]

With the chance to sound like a broken record:

This is censorship. Not what Target did.

So yea.

 

[CaitSeith]

Just to play the devil's advocate: was that rape scene really necessary?

 

[Haerthan]

Just to play the devil's advocate: was that rape scene really necessary?

Why wouldn't it be? If the artist wants it in, then it should be in. The only way that scene gets changed is through a contract between the developer (artist) and its publisher. Or self-censoring if they want to legally sell it in Australia.

Captcha: California. Hotel California you mean Captcha?

EDIT: DOes that mean that Autumn, a game that has more than just an implied rape scene, will get banned in Australia? Well congratz Australians your government is filled with idiots.

 

[ryukage_sama]

Jesus Christ this shit makes me want to reenact some choice scenes from the first game at the offices of the Classification Board.
...
I'm just joking.
Mostly.

You're toeing a dangerous line.

Myself, I'm convinced that even if the members of the board were in fact comprised entirely of men(?) with giant animal heads that I still couldn't have any less respect for them than I already do.

 

[JCAll]

Just to play the devil's advocate: was that rape scene really necessary?

The game isn't even out yet, but since the first game was basically just one giant mind screw it's entirely possible.

 

[AlphaAscalon]

Just to play the devil's advocate: was that rape scene really necessary?

Why wouldn't it be? If the artist wants it in, then it should be in. The only way that scene gets changed is through a contract between the developer (artist) and its publisher. Or self-censoring if they want to legally sell it in Australia.

Captcha: California. Hotel California you mean Captcha?

EDIT: DOes that mean that Autumn, a game that has more than just an implied rape scene, will get banned in Australia? Well congratz Australians your government is filled with idiots.

First some context, I'm an Australian and I'm a gamer of many many years.

I'm not going to play devils advocate since I happen to be on side with the Board. If based on their judgement they consider Hotline Miami 2 to be 'too offensive to the normal Australian's sensibilities' based on an extensive set of legal and moral criteria then, honestly that is completely fine.

The artist might have wanted his rape scene (whether it's real or fake within the context of the game is irrelevant, it is still a scene that visually occurs), but the real question is 'does his rape scene have any merit or offer any significant insight or point for discussion within the subject?'

If it does not, then I think that censoring it is completely reasonable. Adults complaining that 'I'm old enough/sensible enough to have rape in my game' is on a certain level, perverse.

Also I should think everyone knows by now that just because a game is R18+ and cannot be bought by minors doesn't mean it won't get played by minors. Stop thinking that 'because I can handle it fine' means that everyone can.

One final point to bring up, if media can influence people positively then it can also influence them negatively.

 

[Azure23]

Just to play the devil's advocate: was that rape scene really necessary?

From what I can recall of the demo (didn't play it but saw videos) the context of the scene was that you were an actor in a horror film aiming to depict the events of the first game. If you played the first game you'll likely recall a level where you go to a crooked movie producers house, kill all his gangster buddies, kill him, and then rescue a woman who he had chained to a bed, carrying her unconscious to your car. Apparently the point being made during the movie shoot levels from the second game is that from a certain perspective (that of law enforcement looking over the tapes afterwards) it looked like Jacket just massacred everyone in the house and abducted that woman. A lot of the levels in the first game had cameras all over them, so in the game's world Jacket's killings were highly publicized and no doubt most people thought he was some sort of terrifying serial killer.

As to whether it was necessary? I don't really know, I kind of like the idea of an in universe director turning Jacket's exploits into a shlocky, exploitative horror film. I don't speak for all survivors but I'm personally fine with the scene being in the game, however stupid it was to release a demo of that particular level with no context.

 

[Haerthan]

Just to play the devil's advocate: was that rape scene really necessary?

Why wouldn't it be? If the artist wants it in, then it should be in. The only way that scene gets changed is through a contract between the developer (artist) and its publisher. Or self-censoring if they want to legally sell it in Australia.

Captcha: California. Hotel California you mean Captcha?

EDIT: DOes that mean that Autumn, a game that has more than just an implied rape scene, will get banned in Australia? Well congratz Australians your government is filled with idiots.

First some context, I'm an Australian and I'm a gamer of many many years.

I'm not going to play devils advocate since I happen to be on side with the Board. If based on their judgement they consider Hotline Miami 2 to be 'too offensive to the normal Australian's sensibilities' based on an extensive set of legal and moral criteria then, honestly that is completely fine.

The artist might have wanted his rape scene (whether it's real or fake within the context of the game is irrelevant, it is still a scene that visually occurs), but the real question is 'does his rape scene have any merit or offer any significant insight or point for discussion within the subject?'

If it does not, then I think that censoring it is completely reasonable. Adults complaining that 'I'm old enough/sensible enough to have rape in my game' is on a certain level, perverse.

Also I should think everyone knows by now that just because a game is R18+ and cannot be bought by minors doesn't mean it won't get played by minors. Stop thinking that 'because I can handle it fine' means that everyone can.

One final point to bring up, if media can influence people positively then it can also influence them negatively.

Now I don't exactly know the context of Hotline Miami 1 and 2. But I consider EVERY artifact made by humans (or art, since art shows the culture of a people or developer etc) has a point. I do not know Hotline Miami's point, but rest assured by its very existence it has a point. It has a context. Being on the side of the Board is just imposing your moral/legal/religious/etc stance on a people that think differently from you.

The whole thing of "minors can get their hands on R18+ games" just smacks of "think of the children". If parents do their jobs, if the clerks in stores do their jobs, the incidents of minors getting their hands on adult entertainment drastically gets lowered. And this comes from a guy who supports the government in some things. Censorship however is not something I will ever support.

Yes media can influence people negatively, but only that influence. No reputable science has ever found a correlation between violence (physical or sexual) and videogames.

 

[default]

Just to play the devil's advocate: was that rape scene really necessary?

Why wouldn't it be? If the artist wants it in, then it should be in. The only way that scene gets changed is through a contract between the developer (artist) and its publisher. Or self-censoring if they want to legally sell it in Australia.

Captcha: California. Hotel California you mean Captcha?

EDIT: DOes that mean that Autumn, a game that has more than just an implied rape scene, will get banned in Australia? Well congratz Australians your government is filled with idiots.

First some context, I'm an Australian and I'm a gamer of many many years.

I'm not going to play devils advocate since I happen to be on side with the Board. If based on their judgement they consider Hotline Miami 2 to be 'too offensive to the normal Australian's sensibilities' based on an extensive set of legal and moral criteria then, honestly that is completely fine.

The artist might have wanted his rape scene (whether it's real or fake within the context of the game is irrelevant, it is still a scene that visually occurs), but the real question is 'does his rape scene have any merit or offer any significant insight or point for discussion within the subject?'

If it does not, then I think that censoring it is completely reasonable. Adults complaining that 'I'm old enough/sensible enough to have rape in my game' is on a certain level, perverse.

Also I should think everyone knows by now that just because a game is R18+ and cannot be bought by minors doesn't mean it won't get played by minors. Stop thinking that 'because I can handle it fine' means that everyone can.

One final point to bring up, if media can influence people positively then it can also influence them negatively.

No. You are wrong. Who the fuck are you or the grumpy-grandma board to tell me or artists what they can or cannot create or consume? Bugger off.

It could be a rape scene purely for the sake of having a rape scene. It could be the most half-assed, pointless and offensive piece of shit ever depicted. It is still the right of us as fucking people existing on this earth to make and enjoy these FICTIONAL pieces of media. If it were a real fucking snuff/rape film, then yes of course it's wrong! But it's not. It's fake! It's a story! The fact that censorship exists at all for creative work fucking staggers me in its pointlessness and stupidity.

The minors point is moot. It's the parent's responsibility to limit that. If they are letting their child watch 'Chainsaw Fuck 3', that is entirely their fault.

Sure, media affects people negatively and positively. THAT IS WHAT ART AND STORYTELLING IS. Who the hell remembers or enjoys ANYTHING that did not affect them on an emotional level?

You need to pull back and look at the bigger picture.