How about you let me PLAY my game?

[00slash00]

you act like this is your first metal gear solid game. metal gear solid has never been about gameplay. the focus has always been about story and they tell the story through codex conversations and cutscenes. if youre that pissed off about cutscenes then you should probably stop now and return the game, because its not going to get better. however, if you can stomach the fact that theres more story than gameplay, you will experience the best game in the mgs series

 

[AgentCooper]

*Snip*

*Snip*

Metal Gear is really a parody if you did not know that of the military.

I know Kojima is trying to satirize the military, but there's a trap in satire. Before you can launch a good satire, you have to have an understanding of the thing you are sending up. I couldn't write a really effective satire of, say, Chinese cultural practices, because I know very little about them beyond a very superficial knowledge of the language and trends. If I tried to satirize Chinese culture, I'd probably come off sounding ignorant if lucky, racist at worst. I could satirize American culture, since I am American and can knock on places where American culture is just freaking wonky as hell.

When Kojima talks about the military, he falls into that "over-reaching" trap.

BTW, parody is when you mock a fictional work. Satire is when you criticize society. Conker's Bad Fur Day is a parody. MGS is a satire.

Its more of both if any more of an parody. But you know opinions and what not.

Most of the shots come from America military cinema rather than standard military protocol. Also, Kojima likes to add his two cents to the story and what not with the genome solder in MGS1, To the implausible nature of how mercenaries are used and talked about in MGS4. He does have a skewed opinion towards the military, I have to admit it goes against his story telling a few times.

Metal Gear Solid is the last place to look for hard facts of anything related to the military and feels like a regular "human" perspective from the outside.

The Sci-Fi elements work fine to a degree. I think he is still stuck in his previous works dealing with space and what now. But, It had its theme in MGS3 with the Russian cosmonaut that did work well for the cold war setting in my opinion.

I am HUGE metal gear solid fan and I have to admit the game is far from perfect but the story,characters and stealth game play brings me back to the series.

 

[Fappy]

constant tutorials.

Elder Scrolls games.

Seriously, Bethesada, the intros were cool the first time around. But sometime around the 5th reroll, the start getting old.

There is no intro dungeon for Morrowind. You can get out of the first area in >5 minutes.

and once again we find ourselves singing morrowinds praises over the other elder scrolls games. still, it needs to be done

This is the truth.

 

[thedoclc]

*Snip*

*Snip*

*Snip*

*Snip*

Its more of both if any more of an parody. But you know opinions and what not.

Most of the shots come from America military cinema rather than standard military protocol. Also, Kojima likes to add his two cents to the story and what not with the genome solder in MGS1, To the implausible nature of how mercenaries are used and talked about in MGS4. He does have a skewed opinion towards the military, I have to admit it goes against his story telling a few times.

Metal Gear Solid is the last place to look for hard facts of anything related to the military and feels like a regular "human" perspective from the outside.

The Sci-Fi elements work fine to a degree. I think he is still stuck in his previous works dealing with space and what now. But, It had its theme in MGS3 with the Russian cosmonaut that did work well for the cold war setting in my opinion.

I am HUGE metal gear solid fan and I have to admit the game is far from perfect but the story,characters and stealth game play brings me back to the series.

A parody of American cinema with the military in it? Yeah, that I could see. I have to cede that point. Parodying film, sure, though the satire side doesn't work.

The sci-fi didn't work for me. I really liked how MGS1 handled its super-powered rogue's gallery. Why could Vulcan Raven have birds swoop down and have crazy visions? Because he's Vulcan Raven. He's a ridiculously buff mystical shaman who can lug around a fighter plane's canon. We're not explaining it, we don't want you to think about it, just deal. With sheer chutzpah, you can pull that off.

A game later, I'm facing a crazy vampire and I don't care. A couple of games later, I'm being told that the "vampire" had...nanomachines? And now I'm groaning. Yes, yes, I've heard about how it was supposed to be the original baddies were natural and the later ones were not and...blah...don't care.

Back to MGS1. In the same game, Liquid started babbling about genes. Now, Kojima wasn't clear on genetics works and later tried to retcon it into Liquid wasn't clear about how genetics works. If Liquid had just said he was the inferior genetic clone, then fine. When he drops the wallbanger about "I got all the recessive genes!", immersion was snapped in half. I had to stop and say, "Ok, either the writer is an idiot or Liquid is an idiot." You don't want the player thinking that.

I'd invoke a general rule here. First, commit to soft sci fi or hard sci-fi. If you're writing soft sci-fi, like MGS, explain nothing. Just don't. No explanations, period. You'll say something stupid. If you're writing hard sci-fi, make sure you've checked everything for accuracy. Then hire at least two grad students to double check you. Those suckers work cheap.

I loved MG on the NES and MGS1 was one of my favorite games ever released. I had to say MGS2 was where the series started to lose me. Pacing (not the wonky story nor Raiden) was my big problem with MGS2. I wanted to like MGS4, but by then the conspiracy theory story was off the deep end and the pacing had only gotten worse. There's a really great Extra Creditz (I can still mention them here, yes?) about how to control story tempo which sums up the original poster's complaint really well. Bad pacing and exposition dumps: for some fans, it's become a deal-breaker.

 

[AgentCooper]

*Snip*

*Snip*

*Snip*

*Snip*

Its more of both if any more of an parody. But you know opinions and what not.

Most of the shots come from America military cinema rather than standard military protocol. Also, Kojima likes to add his two cents to the story and what not with the genome solder in MGS1, To the implausible nature of how mercenaries are used and talked about in MGS4. He does have a skewed opinion towards the military, I have to admit it goes against his story telling a few times.

Metal Gear Solid is the last place to look for hard facts of anything related to the military and feels like a regular "human" perspective from the outside.

The Sci-Fi elements work fine to a degree. I think he is still stuck in his previous works dealing with space and what now. But, It had its theme in MGS3 with the Russian cosmonaut that did work well for the cold war setting in my opinion.

I am HUGE metal gear solid fan and I have to admit the game is far from perfect but the story,characters and stealth game play brings me back to the series.

A parody of American cinema with the military in it? Yeah, that I could see. I have to cede that point. Parodying film, sure, though the satire side doesn't work.

The sci-fi didn't work for me. I really liked how MGS1 handled its super-powered rogue's gallery. Why could Vulcan Raven have birds swoop down and have crazy visions? Because he's Vulcan Raven. He's a ridiculously buff mystical shaman who can lug around a fighter plane's canon. We're not explaining it, we don't want you to think about it, just deal. With sheer chutzpah, you can pull that off.

A game later, I'm facing a crazy vampire and I don't care. A couple of games later, I'm being told that the "vampire" had...nanomachines? And now I'm groaning. Yes, yes, I've heard about how it was supposed to be the original baddies were natural and the later ones were not and...blah...don't care.

Back to MGS1. In the same game, Liquid started babbling about genes. Now, Kojima wasn't clear on genetics works and later tried to retcon it into Liquid wasn't clear about how genetics works. If Liquid had just said he was the inferior genetic clone, then fine. When he drops the wallbanger about "I got all the recessive genes!", immersion was snapped in half. I had to stop and say, "Ok, either the writer is an idiot or Liquid is an idiot." You don't want the player thinking that.

I'd invoke a general rule here. First, commit to soft sci fi or hard sci-fi. If you're writing soft sci-fi, like MGS, explain nothing. Just don't. No explanations, period. You'll say something stupid. If you're writing hard sci-fi, make sure you've checked everything for accuracy. Then hire at least two grad students to double check you. Those suckers work cheap.

I loved MG on the NES and MGS1 was one of my favorite games ever released. I had to say MGS2 was where the series started to lose me. Pacing (not the wonky story nor Raiden) was my big problem with MGS2. I wanted to like MGS4, but by then the conspiracy theory story was off the deep end and the pacing had only gotten worse. There's a really great Extra Creditz (I can still mention them here, yes?) about how to control story tempo which sums up the original poster's complaint really well. Bad pacing and exposition dumps: for some fans, it's become a deal-breaker.

What did you think of MGS3?

Most consider it a call back to MGS1.

I love the medical triage system they had in that game. I wish they brought it back for MGS4.

 

[thedoclc]

What did you think of MGS3?

Most consider it a call back to MGS1.

I love the medical triage system they had in that game. I wish they brought it back for MGS4.

I didn't play them, since they came out when I was actually deployed and when I got back, I'd things to do. The triage system sounded really cool. Even the very simple system which was used in Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth was really neat, and I'd like to see more games use a different wound system than "if you have at least one hit point, you're OK; at zero you die instantly." Most games have that, with or without regenerating health. I think that a system like the triage system would rock socks in survival horror (like it did in CoCCotE) or in slower, less twitchy FPS/3PS (say, Ghost Recon, Deus Ex, MGS), or even modern RPG (Bloodlines?)

Your thoughts besides Triage = Good?

 

[NerfedFalcon]

Knights of the nightmare! I played the ball-bustingly long tutorial and quit before getting into it, I heard it is good though so I might pick it up again someday.

The tutorial's completely optional, as I recall. The ones that are actually interactive is enough to be getting on with for the first few missions, and the rest can be read as soon as stuff comes up you don't understand. Trust me, I've played it too.

 

[Trippy Turtle]

The Fable childhood bits come to mind. They were very good for the first play through though.
On another note, Bastion is so good at this. IT manages to tell the story amazingly well with no cutscenes and stuff. *Waves Bastion flag*

 

[OPisafaggot]

A parody of American cinema with the military in it? Yeah, that I could see. I have to cede that point. Parodying film, sure, though the satire side doesn't work.

The sci-fi didn't work for me. I really liked how MGS1 handled its super-powered rogue's gallery. Why could Vulcan Raven have birds swoop down and have crazy visions? Because he's Vulcan Raven. He's a ridiculously buff mystical shaman who can lug around a fighter plane's canon. We're not explaining it, we don't want you to think about it, just deal. With sheer chutzpah, you can pull that off.

A game later, I'm facing a crazy vampire and I don't care. A couple of games later, I'm being told that the "vampire" had...nanomachines? And now I'm groaning. Yes, yes, I've heard about how it was supposed to be the original baddies were natural and the later ones were not and...blah...don't care.

Back to MGS1. In the same game, Liquid started babbling about genes. Now, Kojima wasn't clear on genetics works and later tried to retcon it into Liquid wasn't clear about how genetics works. If Liquid had just said he was the inferior genetic clone, then fine. When he drops the wallbanger about "I got all the recessive genes!", immersion was snapped in half. I had to stop and say, "Ok, either the writer is an idiot or Liquid is an idiot." You don't want the player thinking that.

I'd invoke a general rule here. First, commit to soft sci fi or hard sci-fi. If you're writing soft sci-fi, like MGS, explain nothing. Just don't. No explanations, period. You'll say something stupid. If you're writing hard sci-fi, make sure you've checked everything for accuracy. Then hire at least two grad students to double check you. Those suckers work cheap.

I loved MG on the NES and MGS1 was one of my favorite games ever released. I had to say MGS2 was where the series started to lose me. Pacing (not the wonky story nor Raiden) was my big problem with MGS2. I wanted to like MGS4, but by then the conspiracy theory story was off the deep end and the pacing had only gotten worse. There's a really great Extra Creditz (I can still mention them here, yes?) about how to control story tempo which sums up the original poster's complaint really well. Bad pacing and exposition dumps: for some fans, it's become a deal-breaker.

Herp derp, by saying Konami works cheap you just proved that you don't know shit. Konami produce and develop games by putting quality material and time into them.

Everything was explained in the games if you played them properly and actually paid attention. Anything that wasn't properly explained, was then explained by the database. If you played the games inside out and read the database you'd know exactly what the games were on about.

Vulcan Raven powers, history and what not (and buffness for that matter) were clearly explained by Naomi and Miller in MGS and then the MGS database. Also, if you break down any character from any game you are bound to find unexplained shit. No game is 100% flawless.

 

[Arina Love]

Except MGS is interactive BUT where story comes first and everything else later. Everyone getting in to MGS should be well aware about cutscenes and long conversions. MGS have very complex story so if you just going in to MGS for gameplay you doing it wrong.

You have no idea how often people pointed me towards this "game" when I asked for good stealth games. And never mentioned this "verbal diarrhea".

But the complex story doesn't excuse poor narrative. And a narrative through cutscenes solely is bad narrative in a GAME. I'd like a game to weave narrative into the gameplay, not seperating them.

When did having a story(or at least the longer ones...) become a negative for video games?

Wow, you missed by a mile. Story IS not cutscenes only. Game developers should finally start to develop the narrative in games, not imitating movie directors. And this is basically MGS in a nutshell.

Opinions about narrative in game is purely subjective, because people have different tastes and different things work differently. This is something Extra Credits will not tell you.

In any case MGS is very popular with quite big fan base, so like it or not MGS narrative works for people.

 

[karloss01]

Cry moar. There is nothing wrong with MGS series long cutscenes and dialogues. Story comes first then gameplay. Don't like it? Don't play MGS.

Gaming is an interactive medium. There is nothing interactive in cutscenes. You are basically defending a badly acted movie.

except the cutscenes are interactive (though they never tell you) can move the camera around with the sticks and pressing certain buttons at certain times reveals hidden camera angles or easter eggs.

 

[Xeldrak]

The OP seems to be unfamiliar with Metal Gear. When a cutscene starts - lay the controler away and grab some popcorn. Thats how MGS works ^^

 

[dobahci]

Herp derp, by saying Konami works cheap you just proved that you don't know shit. Konami produce and develop games by putting quality material and time into them.

You managed to completely misinterpret what he was saying.

And why would you make an account just to flame someone? And choose the name "OPisafaggot"?

Come on. I know it must take a monumental effort for some people to go 10 seconds without calling someone a ******, but you could at least try. You'd be amazed how rewarding it can be to disagree with someone in an amicable manner. You might even get an interesting discussion out of it.

 

[A.A.K]

constant tutorials.

Elder Scrolls games.

Seriously, Bethesada, the intros were cool the first time around. But sometime around the 5th reroll, the start getting old.

I actually enjoyed those...I know it doesn't really change...but I enjoy it regardless...but maybe I'm just weird.

 

[Jazoni89]

If you didn't like the length of MGS cut-scenes, then god forbid that you will ever play the Yakuza series, now that is a pure story game right there. Every cutscene drags on, and on, worst of all, most of them are not even intriguing like the cutscenes of MGS, and most of the time you don't even know what the hell is going on in the storyline.

If you ignore most of the Nanomachines and Foxdie stuff then MGS's plot is fairly easy to understand, unlike Yakuza's.

Why people feel the need to compare videogames to movies is lost to me. Remember videogames as a medium is still young, and isn't even mainstream accepted yet, so downplaying videogame stories in my eyes is rather silly. At least the MGS storyline was trying to become like a movie with it's cutscenes, and not the typical save the princess, or see this guy, shoot this guy, like what most games are. It's games like MGS that makes the power hungry Hollywood shit themselves, and that's why we need more like it. It also helps push the medium into a more mature way of thinking, and helps inspire mature titles like Heavy Rain that are not all pew, pew, die, die childish nonsense that is commonly associated with videogames.

MGS is a case of videogames growing the fuck up, and perhaps gamers should as well to some degree, and embrace story heavy games.

 

[OPisafaggot]

Herp derp, by saying Konami works cheap you just proved that you don't know shit. Konami produce and develop games by putting quality material and time into them.

You managed to completely misinterpret what he was saying.

And why would you make an account just to flame someone? And choose the name "OPisafaggot"?

Come on. I know it must take a monumental effort for some people to go 10 seconds without calling someone a ******, but you could at least try. You'd be amazed how rewarding it can be to disagree with someone in an amicable manner. You might even get an interesting discussion out of it.

Implying that I've been on this forum before.

Nope, just randomly happened to come across this thread.

 

[Adeptus Aspartem]

I just don't get it, why other developpers haven't figured it out. For me, cutscenes should be delivered in the way DeusEx or MassEffect does them.

Let me have control over my character - or at least some points. Or let me decide which way the conversation in the cutscene goes etc.

I had the same problem that you've with MGS with FF 13.. Holy crap, i was 2 Hours into the game and palyed maybe 30min. And in these 30min i spent 5-10min in the stat/skill-screen figuring out what those guys can do.

Bleh..

 

[VoidWanderer]

Final Fantasy XIII

I've been watching my boyfriend slogging his way through this game and - whilst it's very pretty and the combat looks interesting - it sure does like its cinematics.

I've started saying "Oh no! You encountered a wild cutscene!" whenever one starts. Because sometimes they ambush the player ten steps away from the last one and for no readily apparent reason.

Sounds like flipping Pokemon

 

[Kinokohatake]

Cry moar. There is nothing wrong with MGS series long cutscenes and dialogues. Story comes first then gameplay. Don't like it? Don't play MGS.

I agree. That's why I refuse to play MGS. Syphon Filter was the better game series but those stupid MGS travesties keep going.

 

[Weealzabob]

The first hour or so of Assassin's Creed suffers from this really badly. The intial bulk of the tutorial is one of the most claustrophobic, and unpleasent gaming tutorial's I've played, and it's unskippable. While the game's tutorials improved as it went on, and the series has made some major steps forward in that department, I still can't get over how horrific that first tutorial was.