How about you let me PLAY my game?

thedoclc

New member
Jun 24, 2008
445
0
0
OPisafaggot said:
"METAL GEAR IS LEIK HAZ NO GAMEPLAY!!1!!1!one!1!"

Let me call the waambulance. I prefer an awesome storyline over the lack of content crap we get nowadays. Y'all ***** about how long the cutscenes are but forget that the fucking awesome gameplay and motherfuckin'epic boss fights makes up for it(Not that there is anything wrong with the cutscenes)If you don't want the story you can just fucking skip it, it gives you the freaking option, no one is holding you at gun point and forcing you to watch it.

All the previous MGS games were story driven rather than gameplay. Everyone knows that, right from the first MGS game to the latest one. That's what hooks people to the series is the fucking awesome storyline. And saying that a story driven game has too much story, or too many cutscenes is moronic. Especially with a complex story line like MGS you simply CANNOT do that without adding a lot of dialog and video.

It's not anyone's fault that you have the attention span of a gerbil and can't tell the difference between games that have a fucking motherfuckin' awesome storyline and some other shit storyless games. Frankly if you want to play games with less "cutscenes" you should have never walked into MGS to begin with. The only one to blame is yourself.

MGS games have such long cutscenes is because its a game that needed cutscenes like that. Without them you will not get what the fuck the story is on about. And if you disagree then you pretty much don?t know what the fuck your talking about and should close your browser window at once, and kill yourself because you clearly have an IQ that barely adds up to the number of hours required to beat this game.
Waa, someone dislikes something I love! Let me write an angry post stating a straw man of their opinion in juvenile speech! Now I shall repeatedly insult them and say how the reason they did not enjoy a game was their fault! Clearly difference of opinion is because they must be nitwits and not because they don't want to sit through a narrative! This will validate my fanboyism and prove my superiority!

Please. Kojima is not that deep. His plots are take them or leave them. Frankly, I found most of his babble about the military (as an ex-member) to be so shallow that I doubt he understands how any of it works. I found his science fiction (as a senior medical student) to be wall-bangingly insipid. I found his pacing (as a film and video game fan) to be so bad that it makes it unendurable. And you know what?

That's my fucking opinion, which is no more right or wrong than yours.

Smart people will like different things and that gives you no basis to insult folks. Nor is MGS the only story-driven game in existence, and a lot of games with very intricate, very deep stories managed to avoid the trap of not leaving the player engaged in the game for over an hour at a time.
 

thedoclc

New member
Jun 24, 2008
445
0
0
Hazy said:
Planescape: Torment. Do not be fooled, this is not a videogame. This is a book in videogame's clothing.
Even I agree with this, and I'd sacrifice a kidney for a remake or sequel, still have old PS books in my garage, and would offer Avellone props as one of the best writers in video games. I find PS:T well worth the investment, but man, I can understand why many people wouldn't.
 

AgentCooper

New member
Dec 16, 2010
184
0
0
thedoclc said:
OPisafaggot said:
"METAL GEAR IS LEIK HAZ NO GAMEPLAY!!1!!1!one!1!"

Let me call the waambulance. I prefer an awesome storyline over the lack of content crap we get nowadays. Y'all ***** about how long the cutscenes are but forget that the fucking awesome gameplay and motherfuckin'epic boss fights makes up for it(Not that there is anything wrong with the cutscenes)If you don't want the story you can just fucking skip it, it gives you the freaking option, no one is holding you at gun point and forcing you to watch it.

All the previous MGS games were story driven rather than gameplay. Everyone knows that, right from the first MGS game to the latest one. That's what hooks people to the series is the fucking awesome storyline. And saying that a story driven game has too much story, or too many cutscenes is moronic. Especially with a complex story line like MGS you simply CANNOT do that without adding a lot of dialog and video.

It's not anyone's fault that you have the attention span of a gerbil and can't tell the difference between games that have a fucking motherfuckin' awesome storyline and some other shit storyless games. Frankly if you want to play games with less "cutscenes" you should have never walked into MGS to begin with. The only one to blame is yourself.

MGS games have such long cutscenes is because its a game that needed cutscenes like that. Without them you will not get what the fuck the story is on about. And if you disagree then you pretty much don?t know what the fuck your talking about and should close your browser window at once, and kill yourself because you clearly have an IQ that barely adds up to the number of hours required to beat this game.
Waa, someone dislikes something I love! Let me write an angry post stating a straw man of their opinion in juvenile speech! Now I shall repeatedly insult them and say how the reason they did not enjoy a game was their fault! Clearly difference of opinion is because they must be nitwits and not because they don't want to sit through a narrative! This will validate my fanboyism and prove my superiority!

Please. Kojima is not that deep. His plots are take them or leave them. Frankly, I found most of his babble about the military (as an ex-member) to be so shallow that I doubt he understands how any of it works. I found his science fiction (as a senior medical student) to be wall-bangingly insipid. I found his pacing (as a film and video game fan) to be so bad that it makes it unendurable. And you know what?

That's my fucking opinion, which is no more right or wrong than yours.

Smart people will like different things and that gives you no basis to insult folks. Nor is MGS the only story-driven game in existence, and a lot of games with very intricate, very deep stories managed to avoid the trap of not leaving the player engaged in the game for over an hour at a time.
Metal Gear is really a parody if you did not know that of the military.

Also, That guy was trolling.
 

Korten12

Now I want ma...!
Aug 26, 2009
10,766
0
0
Shoggoth2588 said:
Some of the Halo games did this too and it annoyed the crap out of me.
To be fair, in most Halo games you can do many badass things in game and in the cutscnes (excluding the bomb cutscene in two) the characters don't do anything that is impossible in game.
 

thedoclc

New member
Jun 24, 2008
445
0
0
eyepatchdreams said:
thedoclc said:
OPisafaggot said:
*Snip*
Metal Gear is really a parody if you did not know that of the military.
I know Kojima is trying to satirize the military, but there's a trap in satire. Before you can launch a good satire, you have to have an understanding of the thing you are sending up. I couldn't write a really effective satire of, say, Chinese cultural practices, because I know very little about them beyond a very superficial knowledge of the language and trends. If I tried to satirize Chinese culture, I'd probably come off sounding ignorant if lucky, racist at worst. I could satirize American culture, since I am American and can knock on places where American culture is just freaking wonky as hell.

When Kojima talks about the military, he falls into that "over-reaching" trap.

BTW, parody is when you mock a fictional work. Satire is when you criticize society. Conker's Bad Fur Day is a parody. MGS is a satire.
 

Savagezion

New member
Mar 28, 2010
2,455
0
0
Kahunaburger said:
LookingGlass said:
constant tutorials.
Elder Scrolls games.

Seriously, Bethesada, the intros were cool the first time around. But sometime around the 5th reroll, the start getting old.
A LOT of games do this to justify the lack of manuals. I personally would rather have manuals back (even in the form of a .txt on the disc) to remove this tutorial crap. Hell, at give me the option to skip past that part of the game. God forbid I want to play RDR again and know what the hell I am doing because I am gonna be told again how to do everything.
 

WaysideMaze

The Butcher On Your Back
Apr 25, 2010
845
0
0
Fappy said:
Kahunaburger said:
LookingGlass said:
constant tutorials.
Elder Scrolls games.

Seriously, Bethesada, the intros were cool the first time around. But sometime around the 5th reroll, the start getting old.
There is no intro dungeon for Morrowind. You can get out of the first area in >5 minutes.
and once again we find ourselves singing morrowinds praises over the other elder scrolls games. still, it needs to be done
 

00slash00

New member
Dec 29, 2009
2,321
0
0
you act like this is your first metal gear solid game. metal gear solid has never been about gameplay. the focus has always been about story and they tell the story through codex conversations and cutscenes. if youre that pissed off about cutscenes then you should probably stop now and return the game, because its not going to get better. however, if you can stomach the fact that theres more story than gameplay, you will experience the best game in the mgs series
 

AgentCooper

New member
Dec 16, 2010
184
0
0
thedoclc said:
eyepatchdreams said:
thedoclc said:
OPisafaggot said:
*Snip*
Metal Gear is really a parody if you did not know that of the military.
I know Kojima is trying to satirize the military, but there's a trap in satire. Before you can launch a good satire, you have to have an understanding of the thing you are sending up. I couldn't write a really effective satire of, say, Chinese cultural practices, because I know very little about them beyond a very superficial knowledge of the language and trends. If I tried to satirize Chinese culture, I'd probably come off sounding ignorant if lucky, racist at worst. I could satirize American culture, since I am American and can knock on places where American culture is just freaking wonky as hell.

When Kojima talks about the military, he falls into that "over-reaching" trap.

BTW, parody is when you mock a fictional work. Satire is when you criticize society. Conker's Bad Fur Day is a parody. MGS is a satire.
Its more of both if any more of an parody. But you know opinions and what not.

Most of the shots come from America military cinema rather than standard military protocol. Also, Kojima likes to add his two cents to the story and what not with the genome solder in MGS1, To the implausible nature of how mercenaries are used and talked about in MGS4. He does have a skewed opinion towards the military, I have to admit it goes against his story telling a few times.

Metal Gear Solid is the last place to look for hard facts of anything related to the military and feels like a regular "human" perspective from the outside.

The Sci-Fi elements work fine to a degree. I think he is still stuck in his previous works dealing with space and what now. But, It had its theme in MGS3 with the Russian cosmonaut that did work well for the cold war setting in my opinion.

I am HUGE metal gear solid fan and I have to admit the game is far from perfect but the story,characters and stealth game play brings me back to the series.
 

Fappy

\[T]/
May 1, 2020
12,010
0
41
Country
United States
WaysideMaze said:
Fappy said:
Kahunaburger said:
LookingGlass said:
constant tutorials.
Elder Scrolls games.

Seriously, Bethesada, the intros were cool the first time around. But sometime around the 5th reroll, the start getting old.
There is no intro dungeon for Morrowind. You can get out of the first area in >5 minutes.
and once again we find ourselves singing morrowinds praises over the other elder scrolls games. still, it needs to be done
This is the truth. :p
 

thedoclc

New member
Jun 24, 2008
445
0
0
eyepatchdreams said:
thedoclc said:
eyepatchdreams said:
thedoclc said:
OPisafaggot said:
*Snip*
*Snip*
*Snip*
Its more of both if any more of an parody. But you know opinions and what not.

Most of the shots come from America military cinema rather than standard military protocol. Also, Kojima likes to add his two cents to the story and what not with the genome solder in MGS1, To the implausible nature of how mercenaries are used and talked about in MGS4. He does have a skewed opinion towards the military, I have to admit it goes against his story telling a few times.

Metal Gear Solid is the last place to look for hard facts of anything related to the military and feels like a regular "human" perspective from the outside.

The Sci-Fi elements work fine to a degree. I think he is still stuck in his previous works dealing with space and what now. But, It had its theme in MGS3 with the Russian cosmonaut that did work well for the cold war setting in my opinion.

I am HUGE metal gear solid fan and I have to admit the game is far from perfect but the story,characters and stealth game play brings me back to the series.
A parody of American cinema with the military in it? Yeah, that I could see. I have to cede that point. Parodying film, sure, though the satire side doesn't work.

The sci-fi didn't work for me. I really liked how MGS1 handled its super-powered rogue's gallery. Why could Vulcan Raven have birds swoop down and have crazy visions? Because he's Vulcan Raven. He's a ridiculously buff mystical shaman who can lug around a fighter plane's canon. We're not explaining it, we don't want you to think about it, just deal. With sheer chutzpah, you can pull that off.

A game later, I'm facing a crazy vampire and I don't care. A couple of games later, I'm being told that the "vampire" had...nanomachines? And now I'm groaning. Yes, yes, I've heard about how it was supposed to be the original baddies were natural and the later ones were not and...blah...don't care.

Back to MGS1. In the same game, Liquid started babbling about genes. Now, Kojima wasn't clear on genetics works and later tried to retcon it into Liquid wasn't clear about how genetics works. If Liquid had just said he was the inferior genetic clone, then fine. When he drops the wallbanger about "I got all the recessive genes!", immersion was snapped in half. I had to stop and say, "Ok, either the writer is an idiot or Liquid is an idiot." You don't want the player thinking that.

I'd invoke a general rule here. First, commit to soft sci fi or hard sci-fi. If you're writing soft sci-fi, like MGS, explain nothing. Just don't. No explanations, period. You'll say something stupid. If you're writing hard sci-fi, make sure you've checked everything for accuracy. Then hire at least two grad students to double check you. Those suckers work cheap.

I loved MG on the NES and MGS1 was one of my favorite games ever released. I had to say MGS2 was where the series started to lose me. Pacing (not the wonky story nor Raiden) was my big problem with MGS2. I wanted to like MGS4, but by then the conspiracy theory story was off the deep end and the pacing had only gotten worse. There's a really great Extra Creditz (I can still mention them here, yes?) about how to control story tempo which sums up the original poster's complaint really well. Bad pacing and exposition dumps: for some fans, it's become a deal-breaker.
 

AgentCooper

New member
Dec 16, 2010
184
0
0
thedoclc said:
eyepatchdreams said:
thedoclc said:
eyepatchdreams said:
thedoclc said:
OPisafaggot said:
*Snip*
*Snip*
*Snip*
Its more of both if any more of an parody. But you know opinions and what not.

Most of the shots come from America military cinema rather than standard military protocol. Also, Kojima likes to add his two cents to the story and what not with the genome solder in MGS1, To the implausible nature of how mercenaries are used and talked about in MGS4. He does have a skewed opinion towards the military, I have to admit it goes against his story telling a few times.

Metal Gear Solid is the last place to look for hard facts of anything related to the military and feels like a regular "human" perspective from the outside.

The Sci-Fi elements work fine to a degree. I think he is still stuck in his previous works dealing with space and what now. But, It had its theme in MGS3 with the Russian cosmonaut that did work well for the cold war setting in my opinion.

I am HUGE metal gear solid fan and I have to admit the game is far from perfect but the story,characters and stealth game play brings me back to the series.
A parody of American cinema with the military in it? Yeah, that I could see. I have to cede that point. Parodying film, sure, though the satire side doesn't work.

The sci-fi didn't work for me. I really liked how MGS1 handled its super-powered rogue's gallery. Why could Vulcan Raven have birds swoop down and have crazy visions? Because he's Vulcan Raven. He's a ridiculously buff mystical shaman who can lug around a fighter plane's canon. We're not explaining it, we don't want you to think about it, just deal. With sheer chutzpah, you can pull that off.

A game later, I'm facing a crazy vampire and I don't care. A couple of games later, I'm being told that the "vampire" had...nanomachines? And now I'm groaning. Yes, yes, I've heard about how it was supposed to be the original baddies were natural and the later ones were not and...blah...don't care.

Back to MGS1. In the same game, Liquid started babbling about genes. Now, Kojima wasn't clear on genetics works and later tried to retcon it into Liquid wasn't clear about how genetics works. If Liquid had just said he was the inferior genetic clone, then fine. When he drops the wallbanger about "I got all the recessive genes!", immersion was snapped in half. I had to stop and say, "Ok, either the writer is an idiot or Liquid is an idiot." You don't want the player thinking that.

I'd invoke a general rule here. First, commit to soft sci fi or hard sci-fi. If you're writing soft sci-fi, like MGS, explain nothing. Just don't. No explanations, period. You'll say something stupid. If you're writing hard sci-fi, make sure you've checked everything for accuracy. Then hire at least two grad students to double check you. Those suckers work cheap.

I loved MG on the NES and MGS1 was one of my favorite games ever released. I had to say MGS2 was where the series started to lose me. Pacing (not the wonky story nor Raiden) was my big problem with MGS2. I wanted to like MGS4, but by then the conspiracy theory story was off the deep end and the pacing had only gotten worse. There's a really great Extra Creditz (I can still mention them here, yes?) about how to control story tempo which sums up the original poster's complaint really well. Bad pacing and exposition dumps: for some fans, it's become a deal-breaker.
What did you think of MGS3?

Most consider it a call back to MGS1.

I love the medical triage system they had in that game. I wish they brought it back for MGS4.
 

thedoclc

New member
Jun 24, 2008
445
0
0
eyepatchdreams said:
What did you think of MGS3?

Most consider it a call back to MGS1.

I love the medical triage system they had in that game. I wish they brought it back for MGS4.
I didn't play them, since they came out when I was actually deployed and when I got back, I'd things to do. The triage system sounded really cool. Even the very simple system which was used in Call of Cthulhu: Dark Corners of the Earth was really neat, and I'd like to see more games use a different wound system than "if you have at least one hit point, you're OK; at zero you die instantly." Most games have that, with or without regenerating health. I think that a system like the triage system would rock socks in survival horror (like it did in CoC:DCotE) or in slower, less twitchy FPS/3PS (say, Ghost Recon, Deus Ex, MGS), or even modern RPG (Bloodlines?)

Your thoughts besides Triage = Good?
 

NerfedFalcon

Level i Flare!
Apr 3, 2020
6,693
329
88
Gender
Male
TizzytheTormentor said:
Knights of the nightmare! I played the ball-bustingly long tutorial and quit before getting into it, I heard it is good though so I might pick it up again someday.
The tutorial's completely optional, as I recall. The ones that are actually interactive is enough to be getting on with for the first few missions, and the rest can be read as soon as stuff comes up you don't understand. Trust me, I've played it too.
 

Trippy Turtle

Elite Member
May 10, 2010
2,118
0
41
The Fable childhood bits come to mind. They were very good for the first play through though.
On another note, Bastion is so good at this. IT manages to tell the story amazingly well with no cutscenes and stuff. *Waves Bastion flag*
 

OPisafaggot

New member
Mar 2, 2012
3
0
0
thedoclc said:
A parody of American cinema with the military in it? Yeah, that I could see. I have to cede that point. Parodying film, sure, though the satire side doesn't work.

The sci-fi didn't work for me. I really liked how MGS1 handled its super-powered rogue's gallery. Why could Vulcan Raven have birds swoop down and have crazy visions? Because he's Vulcan Raven. He's a ridiculously buff mystical shaman who can lug around a fighter plane's canon. We're not explaining it, we don't want you to think about it, just deal. With sheer chutzpah, you can pull that off.

A game later, I'm facing a crazy vampire and I don't care. A couple of games later, I'm being told that the "vampire" had...nanomachines? And now I'm groaning. Yes, yes, I've heard about how it was supposed to be the original baddies were natural and the later ones were not and...blah...don't care.

Back to MGS1. In the same game, Liquid started babbling about genes. Now, Kojima wasn't clear on genetics works and later tried to retcon it into Liquid wasn't clear about how genetics works. If Liquid had just said he was the inferior genetic clone, then fine. When he drops the wallbanger about "I got all the recessive genes!", immersion was snapped in half. I had to stop and say, "Ok, either the writer is an idiot or Liquid is an idiot." You don't want the player thinking that.

I'd invoke a general rule here. First, commit to soft sci fi or hard sci-fi. If you're writing soft sci-fi, like MGS, explain nothing. Just don't. No explanations, period. You'll say something stupid. If you're writing hard sci-fi, make sure you've checked everything for accuracy. Then hire at least two grad students to double check you. Those suckers work cheap.

I loved MG on the NES and MGS1 was one of my favorite games ever released. I had to say MGS2 was where the series started to lose me. Pacing (not the wonky story nor Raiden) was my big problem with MGS2. I wanted to like MGS4, but by then the conspiracy theory story was off the deep end and the pacing had only gotten worse. There's a really great Extra Creditz (I can still mention them here, yes?) about how to control story tempo which sums up the original poster's complaint really well. Bad pacing and exposition dumps: for some fans, it's become a deal-breaker.
Herp derp, by saying Konami works cheap you just proved that you don't know shit. Konami produce and develop games by putting quality material and time into them.

Everything was explained in the games if you played them properly and actually paid attention. Anything that wasn't properly explained, was then explained by the database. If you played the games inside out and read the database you'd know exactly what the games were on about.

Vulcan Raven powers, history and what not (and buffness for that matter) were clearly explained by Naomi and Miller in MGS and then the MGS database. Also, if you break down any character from any game you are bound to find unexplained shit. No game is 100% flawless.
 

Arina Love

GOT MOE?
Apr 8, 2010
1,061
0
0
TheKasp said:
Arina Love said:
Except MGS is interactive BUT where story comes first and everything else later. Everyone getting in to MGS should be well aware about cutscenes and long conversions. MGS have very complex story so if you just going in to MGS for gameplay you doing it wrong.
You have no idea how often people pointed me towards this "game" when I asked for good stealth games. And never mentioned this "verbal diarrhea".

But the complex story doesn't excuse poor narrative. And a narrative through cutscenes solely is bad narrative in a GAME. I'd like a game to weave narrative into the gameplay, not seperating them.

Lucane said:
When did having a story(or at least the longer ones...) become a negative for video games?
Wow, you missed by a mile. Story IS not cutscenes only. Game developers should finally start to develop the narrative in games, not imitating movie directors. And this is basically MGS in a nutshell.
Opinions about narrative in game is purely subjective, because people have different tastes and different things work differently. This is something Extra Credits will not tell you.

In any case MGS is very popular with quite big fan base, so like it or not MGS narrative works for people.
 

karloss01

New member
Jul 5, 2009
991
0
0
TheKasp said:
Arina Love said:
Cry moar. There is nothing wrong with MGS series long cutscenes and dialogues. Story comes first then gameplay. Don't like it? Don't play MGS.
Gaming is an interactive medium. There is nothing interactive in cutscenes. You are basically defending a badly acted movie.
except the cutscenes are interactive (though they never tell you) can move the camera around with the sticks and pressing certain buttons at certain times reveals hidden camera angles or easter eggs.