How can you justify this view-point?

[I-Protest-I]

I'd like to hear exactly what he said before passing an ultimate judgment, but this sounds morally unjustifiable at the moment.

 

[Jumpingbean3]

Just a thought but...what was the context in relation to that line? Have there been many deaths in the families of students, or at the very least, a recent death that he was referring to? Seems kind of an odd thing to state out of no-where...

At the start of the year, he made a big speech to all the school (the year groups were separate due to space) and whilst he was talking about manners, behavior and all that stuff he said this. The worst thing is he had just sent out a girl who had just lost both of her brothers in a car accident out, saying she had terrible manners and will never have a good life when she was gone. Also, he said to everyone in the room that they are lesser humans because youre young, thats why you cant vote or drive. Also, at the end he asked us if we found any of his points unreasonable, which we would've got suspended if we actually did (noone did btw)

Was the girl in question actually being rude or just kinda out of it?

Either way knowing this and the fact he replaced most of the staff with businessmen I get the feeling this guy used to be a corporate businessman himself he's just so characteristically insensitive. When he says you are lesser humans what he really means is you don't have disposable income.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

I'd like to hear exactly what he said before passing an ultimate judgment, but this sounds morally unjustifiable at the moment.

Mostly just stuff about good manners, and conduct telling us to be nice to staff. All the usual. Im fine with that but this just seemed like something to make us scared of him.

 

[fragmaster09]

So, I have currently gone into another year at my school. The year before we got a new Head Master, and he has made a lot of changes. He's changed the school uniform (i'm British btw), put everyone into a class system and has put a business park over the road (or at least going to). He has also made most of the veteran teachers and senior staff redundant, and replaced them with business people. Anyway, all of that doesn't matter but what does matter is what he said in our opening assembly.

"If you have lost a relative, it is not an excuse to do bad in school. I once said to my nephews after they lost their mother "just because this happened, is not your excuse to start failing in school"

The main reason I'm offended is because I lost my father when I was 6, it affected most of my school work and social life. He is basically saying that if you have had a life affecting tragedy, that doesnt mean you dont have to do your work.

So escapees, what do you think could justify this, or make it unjustifiable.

[EDIT] He has also just sent out a person who had just lost two of her brothers in a terrible car accident because she was being ill mannered and wanted to have attention. Theres some more reasons for you to call him an asshole

[return of the edit!] For people who have been asking about the context, it was at a start of year assembly where he boasts about last years exam results and tell us all to behave well and not be naughty.

losing a important member of your life isn't an excuse to NOT DO, the work, but it is a reason for a drop in concentration, effort, motivation, happiness and an increased risk of depression, so he is technically justified: it doesn't let you off work completely, but it does give you margin for a drop in abilities(temporarily)

also, those Darn Americans with their jeans and phones in school, while we're sat there all day in shirts, ties etc, wishing we could loosen it a bit or something because the science lab has a tendency to get warm, or you're flustered because you just made a fool of yourself in front of some young woman you REALLY don't want to look a fool in front of(if you get my point)

also, he seems rather harsh on people, maybe because, as Romeo says: he jests at scars that never felt a wound"(or he says something to that effect), he also doesn't seem to understand that people take things different ways, like when my Nan died in the night, i took one day off and was back in school the next day as if nothing happened, but some people i know would take a week or more off if the same happened to them


in conclusion:

he seems to be insensitive because he was either older when he lost family, or he just hasn't lost family.

 

[Rin Little]

What a royal douche... Granted constantly thinking about the loss isn't going to help anything but even I am out of commission for a couple days when things like this happen. When my grandfather died a couple years ago I was pretty much useless for a few days.

 

[ToastiestZombie]

Just a thought but...what was the context in relation to that line? Have there been many deaths in the families of students, or at the very least, a recent death that he was referring to? Seems kind of an odd thing to state out of no-where...

At the start of the year, he made a big speech to all the school (the year groups were separate due to space) and whilst he was talking about manners, behavior and all that stuff he said this. The worst thing is he had just sent out a girl who had just lost both of her brothers in a car accident out, saying she had terrible manners and will never have a good life when she was gone. Also, he said to everyone in the room that they are lesser humans because youre young, thats why you cant vote or drive. Also, at the end he asked us if we found any of his points unreasonable, which we would've got suspended if we actually did (noone did btw)

Was the girl in question actually being rude or just kinda out of it?

Either way knowing this and the fact he replaced most of the staff with businessmen I get the feeling this guy used to be a corporate businessman himself he's just so characteristically insensitive. When he says you are lesser humans what he really means is you don't have disposable income.

She was being rude, I think. But thats not the point, the point is that he used her to install fear in us, and he has no intention to help her in any way. BTW, some of the people he replaced were our so called "pastoral managers", who helped with kids problems like bullying and other emotinal problems.

 

[WarpZone]

I can't justify it myself, but I can easily tell you how the wanker justified it:

"The children do not matter. Only the school's profitability matters."

Or possibly, the profitability of whatever business(es) he's deliberately running this school into the ground in order to advance the interests of.

 

[crhoades]

it would make sense if said in the same way you did,but he did not, he said it in the most callous and heartless way possible.

 

[TheBelgianGuy]

To all people who seem to think this, SCHOOLS ARE NOT BUSINESSES.
CHILDREN ARE NOT PRODUCTS.

Unless, of course, you are a member of a certain national socialism regime.
(I call Godwins first and second law on myself and anybody who called him hitler)

 

[Death God]

Before I answer, let me say this: I do think that guy is being a prick and am on your side so don't anyone try and flame me.
With that said, yes and no. No because you need time to grieve and come to terms with it but "yes", you can't spend a huge amount of time crying about the past and you will have to move on soon.

 

[Uzbekistan]

Wow. I can understand not wanting to coddle people, but that?

That's too far man...

Way too far...

Then again, it was once said on a very favorite show I know: "We're British. We carry on."

 

[Treblaine]

"If you have lost a relative, it is not an excuse to do bad in school. I once said to my nephews after they lost their mother "just because this happened, is not your excuse to start failing in school"

It's awful but it's true.

Think about what their mother would want, would they want their kid to fail academically? End up in the real world with no education and no qualifications? The best way they can remember their mother is to honour her ultimate hopes and wishes, that he children will do well.

Of course give them time to grieve but the bereaved must respect their parent's dying wish which surely must be that their child succeeds in life, and an essential part of that is doing as well as they can in school and then following their dreams and talents.

"if you have had a life affecting tragedy, that doesnt mean you dont have to do your work."

Yeaaah, that sounds harsh but reasonable.

You HAVE to do work, it holds society together. If everyone who lost a relative never had to work again then society would fall apart. Like my mother when her mum died (my Grandma), she had some bereavement leave but she still had to go back to work as a midwife to deliver babies and earn money to help pay the bills.

My dad lost his father when he was just leaving school for uni, but he still he went to Cambridge and is now the chief operating officer of a gas refinery.

 

[dead.juice]

"If you have lost a relative, it is not an excuse to do bad in school. I once said to my nephews after they lost their mother "just because this happened, is not your excuse to start failing in school"

The main reason I'm offended is because I lost my father when I was 6, it affected most of my school work and social life. He is basically saying that if you have had a life affecting tragedy, that doesnt mean you dont have to do your work.

[EDIT] He has also just sent out a person who had just lost two of her brothers in a terrible car accident because she was being ill mannered and wanted to have attention. Theres some more reasons for you to call him an asshole

It's one thing to say "Be strong, don't let the loss of your loved ones stop you from doing your best".
But this guy sounds completely insensitive. He probably never had anything bad happened to his loved ones, or he thinks his students are as insensitive as him, and will use any excuse they can to not study. Regardless, this guy seems like a lot of teachers these days; frustrated, shallow, and pretentious.

 

[derelict]

Well, this'll make me sound like a wanker myself, but here goes. He's got a strong point, but only in the context of time. It takes time to get over the death of a loved one, so if you're still affected by someone dying many, many years after the fact, then the answer is you need to learn how to deal with loss, rather'n letting loss dictate your life. However, if he's talking months, weeks, or days after someone dies, and specifically speaking to adolescents, then yeah, he's a waste of flesh.


If you're curious, I speak from experience. Dad died when I was 11, had a stroke that basically erased all memory of our family when I was 9. I wouldn't say I'm over it, since loss at that age is usually a death sentence to optimism, but I also wouldn't say it causes me to be an underachiever either.

 

[Kintobor92]

Yeah, he's an ass. It's good to be an ass in this way, but only to yourself. Other people will decide that sucking it up is the way to go or they won't, and that's no business of anyone but themselves.

 

[Apprentice1994]

Grr... I hate to be THAT guy that justifies it, but here goes.

Crying over your loss isn't going to fix anything. The best thing you can do is to move on. Life goes on.

I think that's the underlying point.

Not directed at you personally,

but crying does fix things. It's one of our bodies main mechanisms for calming ourselves down. After the initial flood of tears (which stimulates our fight-and-flight system) our body reacts naturally by going into a rest-and-digest modus.

And in this rest-and-digest modus we're much more capable of dealing with our grief, as opposed to immediately moving on and ignoring it.

If you give yourself time to mourn and cry you're giving yourself a clean cut. Hurts a lot, but it produces a cleaner scar that you can live with. If you ignore it then chances are this emotional wound will just start festering and you'll be having problems in the long term.

Even from a purely logical point of view grief, mourning and crying are the reactions of choice, not ignoring and moving on.

Gosh, just logged back on to find four responses to the same post. I'll just answer them all here. I'm trying to not be a dick about this, but here goes. Yes, I was wrong, crying can solve some problems but here's a better way of putting it.

Crying won't bring them back.

And I mean physically. Sure, I guess it could bring them back mentally. GAH enough arguing.

Also, I agree, the headmaster is wrong. Disregard him. Whatever he was trying to say in the assembly, he chose the wrong words to say it.

Captcha: it's the word "rate" upside down, followed by "hydredu." I'm at a loss here.

 

[Treblaine]

"I understand she's upset, but she shouldn't let her emotions get in the way of doing her job." I nearly decked him.

It would have been interesting if you had. He would have gotten a very practical demonstration of "emotions in the way of doing the job".

We aren't machines. Well, in a sense we are, but in so far as emotions are an absolutely key part in how we function and that most importantly we don't have any conscious control over them. Our emotions are self-manifest from what happens around us, usually things we have no control over, like your loved ones being cruelly taken from life.

Basically, only a literally MORON actually thinks you can consciously control emotions, as in:

"I don't want to be distraught now, *BING* there! I don't care about my loved ones being dead any more, I don't care about anything. Actually, why do I care about doing my job? I'll get fired and end up homeless, but I don't care if I have to live on the streets, I will just will away those bad feelings of living as a vagrant"

The control you have over your emotions is ultimately limited. You can drink to dull the grief - and everything else - which obviously isn't advisable. There are medicines you could be prescribed but those are for extreme circumstances.

Really, there is a grieving process, it is different for different people that ultimately depends on time and activity, talking, arguing and laughing over it. One thing you CANNOT DO, is try to ignore it. That's when it gets bad.

PS: Don't ever do that **** a favour, the one who suggested your friend ignore her emotions over her dead friend. I doubt he is a moron, I think he is just an anti-social **** who has no concept that others have loved ones they can't bear to lose, he may not have anybody he'd really miss if they die. Also if he ever applies for a firearms licence DEFINITELY request to be is referee to write a good reference... then tell the police how he should NOT have a gun as he seems to not appreciate his co-worker being bereaved by the loss of a loved one.

I wouldn't trust a guy like that with a gun. Seems to be spree-shooter material.

 

[BSCCollateral]

Depends on what "failing at school" means.

I lost my grandfather right before finals week. My teachers knew and I'm sure I was graded more leniently than normally.

Missing a few days? Sure. Blowing a test or two? I could see that. Dropping out completely? I kind of see his point.

 

[Kurokami]

So, I have currently gone into another year at my school. The year before we got a new Head Master, and he has made a lot of changes. He's changed the school uniform (i'm British btw), put everyone into a class system and has put a business park over the road (or at least going to). He has also made most of the veteran teachers and senior staff redundant, and replaced them with business people. Anyway, all of that doesn't matter but what does matter is what he said in our opening assembly.

"If you have lost a relative, it is not an excuse to do bad in school. I once said to my nephews after they lost their mother "just because this happened, is not your excuse to start failing in school"

The main reason I'm offended is because I lost my father when I was 6, it affected most of my school work and social life. He is basically saying that if you have had a life affecting tragedy, that doesnt mean you dont have to do your work.

So escapees, what do you think could justify this, or make it unjustifiable.

[EDIT] He has also just sent out a person who had just lost two of her brothers in a terrible car accident because she was being ill mannered and wanted to have attention. Theres some more reasons for you to call him an asshole

[return of the edit!] For people who have been asking about the context, it was at a start of year assembly where he boasts about last years exam results and tell us all to behave well and not be naughty.

Not that he's not a dick for saying it, but really it is better for you to work hard even if a relative dies. I mean, yeah we get depressed and would rather ruminate and what not, but it's often much healthier to just keep yourself busy for a while. Not to mention that objectively, your relative will remain being dead, not doing your work isn't going to change that.

He's definitely a dick, and people should be allowed to grieve and have their acting out understood, but I suppose in a way it's better not to let yourself get trapped in self pity and all that.

Besides, it's somewhat rational to only give a shit about yourself, and he seems to be doing a fine job of that. =/

(sorry about your dad btw)

 

[DarkRyter]

That's one cold ************.