How can you justify this view-point?

[Death God]

Before I answer, let me say this: I do think that guy is being a prick and am on your side so don't anyone try and flame me.
With that said, yes and no. No because you need time to grieve and come to terms with it but "yes", you can't spend a huge amount of time crying about the past and you will have to move on soon.

 

[Uzbekistan]

Wow. I can understand not wanting to coddle people, but that?

That's too far man...

Way too far...

Then again, it was once said on a very favorite show I know: "We're British. We carry on."

 

[Treblaine]

"If you have lost a relative, it is not an excuse to do bad in school. I once said to my nephews after they lost their mother "just because this happened, is not your excuse to start failing in school"

It's awful but it's true.

Think about what their mother would want, would they want their kid to fail academically? End up in the real world with no education and no qualifications? The best way they can remember their mother is to honour her ultimate hopes and wishes, that he children will do well.

Of course give them time to grieve but the bereaved must respect their parent's dying wish which surely must be that their child succeeds in life, and an essential part of that is doing as well as they can in school and then following their dreams and talents.

"if you have had a life affecting tragedy, that doesnt mean you dont have to do your work."

Yeaaah, that sounds harsh but reasonable.

You HAVE to do work, it holds society together. If everyone who lost a relative never had to work again then society would fall apart. Like my mother when her mum died (my Grandma), she had some bereavement leave but she still had to go back to work as a midwife to deliver babies and earn money to help pay the bills.

My dad lost his father when he was just leaving school for uni, but he still he went to Cambridge and is now the chief operating officer of a gas refinery.

 

[dead.juice]

"If you have lost a relative, it is not an excuse to do bad in school. I once said to my nephews after they lost their mother "just because this happened, is not your excuse to start failing in school"

The main reason I'm offended is because I lost my father when I was 6, it affected most of my school work and social life. He is basically saying that if you have had a life affecting tragedy, that doesnt mean you dont have to do your work.

[EDIT] He has also just sent out a person who had just lost two of her brothers in a terrible car accident because she was being ill mannered and wanted to have attention. Theres some more reasons for you to call him an asshole

It's one thing to say "Be strong, don't let the loss of your loved ones stop you from doing your best".
But this guy sounds completely insensitive. He probably never had anything bad happened to his loved ones, or he thinks his students are as insensitive as him, and will use any excuse they can to not study. Regardless, this guy seems like a lot of teachers these days; frustrated, shallow, and pretentious.

 

[derelict]

Well, this'll make me sound like a wanker myself, but here goes. He's got a strong point, but only in the context of time. It takes time to get over the death of a loved one, so if you're still affected by someone dying many, many years after the fact, then the answer is you need to learn how to deal with loss, rather'n letting loss dictate your life. However, if he's talking months, weeks, or days after someone dies, and specifically speaking to adolescents, then yeah, he's a waste of flesh.


If you're curious, I speak from experience. Dad died when I was 11, had a stroke that basically erased all memory of our family when I was 9. I wouldn't say I'm over it, since loss at that age is usually a death sentence to optimism, but I also wouldn't say it causes me to be an underachiever either.

 

[Kintobor92]

Yeah, he's an ass. It's good to be an ass in this way, but only to yourself. Other people will decide that sucking it up is the way to go or they won't, and that's no business of anyone but themselves.

 

[Apprentice1994]

Grr... I hate to be THAT guy that justifies it, but here goes.

Crying over your loss isn't going to fix anything. The best thing you can do is to move on. Life goes on.

I think that's the underlying point.

Not directed at you personally,

but crying does fix things. It's one of our bodies main mechanisms for calming ourselves down. After the initial flood of tears (which stimulates our fight-and-flight system) our body reacts naturally by going into a rest-and-digest modus.

And in this rest-and-digest modus we're much more capable of dealing with our grief, as opposed to immediately moving on and ignoring it.

If you give yourself time to mourn and cry you're giving yourself a clean cut. Hurts a lot, but it produces a cleaner scar that you can live with. If you ignore it then chances are this emotional wound will just start festering and you'll be having problems in the long term.

Even from a purely logical point of view grief, mourning and crying are the reactions of choice, not ignoring and moving on.

Gosh, just logged back on to find four responses to the same post. I'll just answer them all here. I'm trying to not be a dick about this, but here goes. Yes, I was wrong, crying can solve some problems but here's a better way of putting it.

Crying won't bring them back.

And I mean physically. Sure, I guess it could bring them back mentally. GAH enough arguing.

Also, I agree, the headmaster is wrong. Disregard him. Whatever he was trying to say in the assembly, he chose the wrong words to say it.

Captcha: it's the word "rate" upside down, followed by "hydredu." I'm at a loss here.

 

[Treblaine]

"I understand she's upset, but she shouldn't let her emotions get in the way of doing her job." I nearly decked him.

It would have been interesting if you had. He would have gotten a very practical demonstration of "emotions in the way of doing the job".

We aren't machines. Well, in a sense we are, but in so far as emotions are an absolutely key part in how we function and that most importantly we don't have any conscious control over them. Our emotions are self-manifest from what happens around us, usually things we have no control over, like your loved ones being cruelly taken from life.

Basically, only a literally MORON actually thinks you can consciously control emotions, as in:

"I don't want to be distraught now, *BING* there! I don't care about my loved ones being dead any more, I don't care about anything. Actually, why do I care about doing my job? I'll get fired and end up homeless, but I don't care if I have to live on the streets, I will just will away those bad feelings of living as a vagrant"

The control you have over your emotions is ultimately limited. You can drink to dull the grief - and everything else - which obviously isn't advisable. There are medicines you could be prescribed but those are for extreme circumstances.

Really, there is a grieving process, it is different for different people that ultimately depends on time and activity, talking, arguing and laughing over it. One thing you CANNOT DO, is try to ignore it. That's when it gets bad.

PS: Don't ever do that **** a favour, the one who suggested your friend ignore her emotions over her dead friend. I doubt he is a moron, I think he is just an anti-social **** who has no concept that others have loved ones they can't bear to lose, he may not have anybody he'd really miss if they die. Also if he ever applies for a firearms licence DEFINITELY request to be is referee to write a good reference... then tell the police how he should NOT have a gun as he seems to not appreciate his co-worker being bereaved by the loss of a loved one.

I wouldn't trust a guy like that with a gun. Seems to be spree-shooter material.

 

[BSCCollateral]

Depends on what "failing at school" means.

I lost my grandfather right before finals week. My teachers knew and I'm sure I was graded more leniently than normally.

Missing a few days? Sure. Blowing a test or two? I could see that. Dropping out completely? I kind of see his point.

 

[Kurokami]

So, I have currently gone into another year at my school. The year before we got a new Head Master, and he has made a lot of changes. He's changed the school uniform (i'm British btw), put everyone into a class system and has put a business park over the road (or at least going to). He has also made most of the veteran teachers and senior staff redundant, and replaced them with business people. Anyway, all of that doesn't matter but what does matter is what he said in our opening assembly.

"If you have lost a relative, it is not an excuse to do bad in school. I once said to my nephews after they lost their mother "just because this happened, is not your excuse to start failing in school"

The main reason I'm offended is because I lost my father when I was 6, it affected most of my school work and social life. He is basically saying that if you have had a life affecting tragedy, that doesnt mean you dont have to do your work.

So escapees, what do you think could justify this, or make it unjustifiable.

[EDIT] He has also just sent out a person who had just lost two of her brothers in a terrible car accident because she was being ill mannered and wanted to have attention. Theres some more reasons for you to call him an asshole

[return of the edit!] For people who have been asking about the context, it was at a start of year assembly where he boasts about last years exam results and tell us all to behave well and not be naughty.

Not that he's not a dick for saying it, but really it is better for you to work hard even if a relative dies. I mean, yeah we get depressed and would rather ruminate and what not, but it's often much healthier to just keep yourself busy for a while. Not to mention that objectively, your relative will remain being dead, not doing your work isn't going to change that.

He's definitely a dick, and people should be allowed to grieve and have their acting out understood, but I suppose in a way it's better not to let yourself get trapped in self pity and all that.

Besides, it's somewhat rational to only give a shit about yourself, and he seems to be doing a fine job of that. =/

(sorry about your dad btw)

 

[DarkRyter]

That's one cold ************.

 

[Treblaine]

OP, here is some sage advice from my momma:

"Never be afraid to ask for help if it means you can do what you couldn't do alone"

It came from when my brother was working a tough job and was being asked to work beyond his limit yet didn't want to refuse to do tasks. My mum as a manager knows what she wants, she wants the job done and if they haven't quite got what it takes then she just wants to know they are willing and if they need help doing something like loading crates into a van, then arrangements will be made to put two people on the job, or with specialist equipment.

Basically, your attitude should be:

"I really want to do well in school, but I need help with my bereavement"

This is what people in charge like, they don't like quitters. They can't do anything with them, what they can do is if you say you are willing but they need something to do it, THAT they can help with. They can sort things out, they can make accommodations like arranging counselling, extra tutoring, moving around syllabus, deadline-extension or changing subjects.

You can't give up. You have to try, and ask for the help you need and deserve.

 

[Robert Ewing]

I suppose you can't let the death of your father (Tragic as it may be, and I'm truly sorry for you loss) ruin your chances at a successful life.

You need to succeed, not mourn your father in the most important moments of your life. You need to dedicate yourself to studying hard, to be able to earn much currency, and succeed in life. You will find a wife, and have ten thousand children. Then you can be as awesome of a dad as I'm sure yours was.

Try not to mourn him, try to impress his memory. If you try hard, and win at life. He will be proud of you.

 

[Sansha]

I'd recommend going to the school board about this... this really isn't an acceptable viewpoint. Losing a relative can be crushing and life-changing for a child, and making them feel like they shouldn't grieve is going to be much, much worse on them.

 

[Rancid0ffspring]

Grr... I hate to be THAT guy that justifies it, but here goes.

Crying over your loss isn't going to fix anything. The best thing you can do is to move on. Life goes on.

I think that's the underlying point.

You probably have several "Here here"'s by now but I agree with you.

OP... no offense, what you have experienced at a young age is tragic and I do not envy you in any way... same with anyone else who has encountered such a tragedy at any point in their lives.

Point that I believe he has tried to get across (POORLY) is as follows

Don't fuck up your education then say "Woe is me I had it hard because of XXXX went wrong in my life"

I don't approve with his method but I certainly do agree with the point he was getting across.

Sorry if that portrays me as a monstrous c**t

 

[LitleWaffle]

I'll try to justify it, but I won't respect this viewpoint in any way whatsoever.

Justification: If you lose someone close to you, think about it.
Would that person who cared about you want you to fall behind in your studies because of it? That person may not be around anymore, but they surely didn't want their death to ruin more than one life.

There are many flaws to this statement, I know. Regardless, that is probably the best way I can justify it.

He is still a huge butt.

 

[AngelOfBlueRoses]

IT's quite easy to justify.

The family member is gone. No amount of grieving is ever going to bring them back however if you fuck up at school thats your whole future riding on it.

Thats usually how someone like that thinks anyway.

Where the hell do you come off saying something like that?! That's one of the most cynical views I've ever encountered in the world and you're a piece of shi-

Before some serious mental case starts trying to abuse me thats not how I feel thats just how people can justify it.

...oh. My bad.

*snrk*

OT: Yeah, pretty much what this guy says. That's how it's justified by people like that. I don't believe in it and since I know a few things about psychology and psychiatry, I wouldn't recommend telling that to anyone who has lost a family member.

PS. Your headmaster sounds like a dick.

 

[Gottesstrafe]

Huh, he sounds like some sort of amalgamation of Dean Viru Sahastrabudhe from "3 Idiots" [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3_Idiots] and headmaster Randy White from "A Prayer for Owen Meany".

 

[yman15]

What a wanker. I could justify it, but then I'd have to think like a wanker, and I hate that.
But I'm sure it goes something like "They're gone now and can't affect you anymore. Carry on."

Yeah, this. It's easy to justify, but you just feel so dirty doing it.

What I want to know is how you could justify it? Not if you feel bad doing so. Just because I dont understand it.

Alright, hold on a sec...

..............zzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ*CLICK*

--DEACTIVATING EMOTIONAL RESPONSE SUBROUTINE
--PLEASE ENTER KILL CODE
--***********
--CODE CONFIRMED
--EMOTIONAL RESPONSE SUBROUTINE INACTIVE

Ok. If you had a job, you would get only a specific amount of time off to mourn. Usually, the days of the funeral/wake. If you were to fuck up your job because of it, on average, you would lose that job. That logic can carry over to kids in school. Yeah, it sucks, but part of life is about dealing with that bullshit and getting over it. You can't let that stuff fuck up your life, because there will come a time where you need to deal with it, a lot. It is a point that rings very true... but it is a tad harsh to push on kids.

Now, excuse me while I go kill puppies and ignore children crying over it. I may also steal their candy and punch their noses.

lol that was hilarious!!!!!!! You're killing me man (awesome pun intended) but yah that's the only way you can justify it