How closely do you adhere to the law?

[Vault101]

oh you know...I'd say around 50% I mean yeah Id beat a mother fucker up if he ever got in my face but you know "killing" is a little to far..even for me, drugs are cool though, whatever they are...

ok..SERIOUSLY?

how the hell would I answer that? Ive never been in a situation that allowed me to break the law more than say.....downloading MP3's

and even then I buy all my music now

 

[Saulkar]

I do not follow the law at all. I just do not do much to break it in the first place. I follow the speed limit because I am comfortable with it. I do not steal because I have little to no reason to do it. There are a couple of laws I break every now and again but they are all unequivocally victimless to both me and others be it an individual, group, or business. These laws I find rather confusing. Some of which few people even realise exist or I forget even exist.

CAPTCHA: which does a vegetarian eat?: A puppy of course.

 

[Chairman Miaow]

'Breaking the Law, Breaking the Law''

OP seems a bit of a stickler for the rules. I always considered myself uptight, but I'm not going to report someone for smoking some ganja; that's just a dick move man. You know what they say man; no harm, no foul.

Also, victimless crimes do exist. For example, my parents allowed me to partake of Scotch from the age of 14 (don't worry, not that much, they weren't insane). Who is victimised by this horrible criminal action.

You, for having to drink ikcy, icky scotch.

 

[AnarchistFish]

Smoke (not often though) and drink underage. Download illegally although I do spend a shitload on physical music too.

Laws and ethics are different. Arguably you could say downloading illegally is ethically wrong (although I argue against that) but if a crime only affects yourself I don't know why you should worry about it. I don't understand why some people believe every illegal activity is morally wrong and wanting to report all of them seems crazy to me. It just seems so blind.

Of course a lot of laws are there for a good reason but why shouldn't you look at it with some degree of scepticism? Why should it be always treated as an "absolute"?

 

[Dogstile]

Heh, I had some big post in my head, but halfway through typing it I had a brainwave. It was illegal for me to knock the teeth out of a guy who was trying to mug me at knifepoint. Would you report me for that? After all, I broke a law didn't I?

 

[Ken Sapp]

There Are several laws that I don't believe should be law. From the idiotic to those that are actually against the spirit and/or letter of the Constitution (US resident BTW) there are many laws that I don't care for. I don't actively engage in law breaking behavior but for the victimless crimes I am less likely to actively avoid breaking them should they come up or to report someone else that I observe breaking them. Otherwise I am a law abiding citizen and fully support the laws, law enforcement personnel, and occasionally the government.

 

[TIMESWORDSMAN]

I can think of a few minor laws I've broken:

I like to take long walks, and I'm very curious, so I've trespassed on private and state property on more than one occasion.

I own a pair of brass knuckles, and carry them on occasion. Usually when I feel I may be out into dangerous situations, like traveling after dark.

I am underaged, but I have consumed alcahol. I've never been drunk though, and the most I ever have is about a shotglass worth of mead less than once a week.
________________________________________________________________________________________________

In general, I adhere to and strive to uphold the law whenever I can, and abhor those who break the law and hurt others for fun or personal gain.
That said, I'm not beyond hypocrisy, and I have broken laws when I felt sure that not a single being would come to harm. I feel guilty about that.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

As I fall under 2 sets of law, and the repurcussions for me are more severe, then I make sure I always adhere to the law, under every circumstance! A court marshall is something I never want to do in my life! :S

 

[Joccaren]

I obey the big ones closely, the others loosely.

Murder, Theft, Assault, Rape - Never going to get close to that sort of stuff. That is there for good reason - a very good reason - and there's nothing there that is even remotely redeemable.

However, I'll Jaywalk every day. I won't even bother pushing the button - it just slows me and all the cars down.
I'll have the occasional drink at parties [And I mean that. I struggle to down 1 beer in a night, and that's not due to me getting drunk fast. I just don't really like alcohol, but its nice in a small dose - just enough to loosen me up a bit], despite being underaged.
I've sat next to people doing drugs before, though not done them myself, and people who smoke and such underaged.
And a few other crimes that I have no reason to mention.

You know what though?
Were anyone to call the police on any of these offenses, I'm not joking when I say they'd probably just laugh and hang up the phone. They really don't care that much.
They know that young people in society drink underaged at parties, they know they smoke, they know they do drugs. They know people Jaywalk, and if they see people doing that, they'll bring them up on it, give them a small talking to then send them on their way. They're not going to go out of their way to chase you up on it, or go to every party out there - which around here everybody knows has at least one underaged drinker - to catch people being criminals.
Why?
'cause the offenses really aren't worth it. What is a few people having a party and drinking underaged in the grand scheme of things? Not much. A few kids smoke a bong every now and then? Their not really doing that much harm to anyone. Underaged smokers? If their doing it in private, what does it matter?

And yes, I know this because I have actually talked to a few police officers about this. They're not the hardline "You must OBEY to the letter" type of people they're sometimes made out to be. They're people, and they know that people will do what people do. So long as its nothing too major, its not worth them chasing up on it.

Now, say one kid was known to be selling large amounts of alcohol to his underaged friends. That they'd probably chase up.
Some of those kids have a massive stash of drugs?
They'll chase that up too.
People walking pretty much infront of cars and almost getting hit?
They'll bring you in if you don't stop after they have their talk with you.

The really minor stuff though? They don't really care.

And yes, I know this doesn't make it perfectly legal. However, there is a degree to which the laws are allowed to be bent - police officer's own words - where they won't chase you up on it. To me, that makes it morally ok to do such things - and legality and morallity =/= the same thing

 

[Joccaren]

But giving people $280 tickets for eating a bag of chips while driving

A bit excessive, yes, however you should not be eating a bag of chips whilst driving. It doesn't matter how good of a driver you are, and if you can masterfully concentrate and manage to drive perfectly whilst doing so and notice everything that happens around you, there are people out there that can't do that. It would be far too much trouble to introduce some arbitrary driving rating where you're rated by how well you can drive and eat, drive and text, drive and put make up on or anything else just so that the few that are skilled enough to do so can, and others can't. Add to that that you'd probably get pulled up anyway and asked for your "Pro Driver" licence that lets you do that, its really not worth it in the end.
Some people will endanger others by doing things like that, and kill them. As such, it will be illegal to do so. If you're partner/brother/mother got hit by a car because the driver was too busy opening a packet of chips to be paying attention to the road, I'm sure you'd lay it on him how he shouldn't have been doing that. Such fines, whilst excessive, are there to ensure such things don't happen.

and all the other stupid laws like noise curfews

Noise curfews are a fair law.
To demonstrate why, I will call up your neighbor and tell them to blast an airhorn at your window from the hours of 1am to 7am every night, and see if you get sleep.
It is a matter of respect. Yes, it might be fun for you to have a loud party or something late at night, and it might be your right to, but its other people's rights to have a quiet neighborhood where they can sleep. The noise curfew is a medium between the two that you shouldn't have problems with so long as your neighbors don't get annoyed by the level of noise you're making and call the police to tell you to quieten down.

And anti drug laws are severely outdated. If someone wants to take recreational drugs, THEY WILL FIND THEM, legal or no. So why don't we just legalize them and than at least people who choose to partake(Not me, I'll drink a good beer thank you) can at least be safe while doing it. All your doing making it illegal is making the poor poorer, and the drug dealers richer.

This I'll agree to to an extent. Some drugs simply shouldn't be allowed, and making them harder to acquire whilst simultaneously placing a social stigma against them does reduce the number of people doing them. Were they completely legal, pretty much everybody at the parties I go to would be doing them. As is, only 3 or 4 people will.
The laws, however, do need to be revised. For one to allow some more open testing of such substances, to better find out their effects, as well as the legality of some substances. Some drugs are undangerous enough that they should be legally available, albeit in limited dosages, whilst there are others that take things too far and should not be allowed - though which is which is a discussion for another time and place.
And the poor will become poorer whether the drugs are legal or not - its not like they'd be handed out for free come their legality. However drug lords would be stunted to an extent, which is one positive side to it.

The law is a hilarious joke, and adhering to something made up by a committee, as well as wanting to rat someone out doesn't make you a good citizen, it makes you a fool. It's not your business, stay out of other people's affairs, legal or not.

To an extent I'll agree to this, but to an extent I won't.
You have to adhere to the laws of the country to a reasonable extent because you live in that country. Don't want the laws? Move someplace that doesn't have them. That's how it is.
And whilst in many cases its not somebodies business - I.E: Private drug use [if kept in moderation] - you can also make it their business at times - I.E: Making too much noise at night and keeping them from sleeping, causing them to call the police who can take action thanks to laws on noise curfews.

There is a balance that must be struck. Following laws to the letter is too up tight, however just doing what you want and not caring about others is far too loose. A safe line I would say is to be respectful to those around you, and the law in general, but don't follow their wishes to the letter. Do what you want and take advantage of your freedoms, but only so long as it isn't detrimental to anyone else.
Its a fair way to do things, and both sides get the respect they deserve.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Well, let me just say this: hasn?t pretty much everyone watched a 15 or 18 film before they actually reached 15 or 18? Or drunken underage and unsupervised by an adult (most of my friends? parents are perfectly fine with and well aware of that)? Or how about that one time you didn?t put on your seatbelt in a car? Or (most likely, if you?re a dude) you flopped your cock out to take a piss in the bushes because there wasn?t a toilet around?

All in all, I?d say I?ve performed minor, victimless offences. A lot of laws are pretty inconsistent, arbitrary, and barely upheld anyway (many of them are more guidelines than anything, and some are just out-of-date), not to mention the problems within the justice system itself. I doubt I?d be handcuffed and thrown in jail if I admitted to a cop that I?d played Call of Duty while being under 18, unless I was living in some fascist hellhole and/or happened to stumble across the guy on a bad day.

It?s pretty damn hard to live in the world happy and free without breaking at least some little laws that are probably stupid to begin with, just like it?s pretty damn hard to go through life without telling white lies. I?d never think about stealing or raping someone though, obviously. You don?t need a law to tell you you?re gonna get in trouble if you stab someone in the chest. That?s what we called morality. Yes, a social construct that?s probably almost, if not moreso, arbitrary than law, but there?s still something in most of us that tells us that it?s wrong to kill another human being, especially if it?s without justification.

Now, if you?ll excuse me, I?m off to protect the good civilians of Gotham City from evil.

 

[Lord Garnaat]

The fact is laws are not always set up to be the best for the society they apply to. They can often be absurd like the right wing in America trying to make unnecessary requirements to getting the perfectly legal abortion, to down right be used to oppress the entirety of people for the security not of the society but the vile establishment that rules over them.

I wish I could see the OP go to the internment camps in North Korea which force labors under brutal conditions and have him try to explain that they deserve it simply because they became aware that one of their local official is having a affair (yes this really happens for this reason) and explain that their children deserved to executed because they got too weak to work. After all the law is "absolute" right?

There is only one thing that can compare to someone who thinks laws should be followed and never broken nor challenged.

In 1943 it was illegal to be Jewish in Germany, and the punishment was death. So is the OP saying that all of those Jews deserved the gassing they got?

In Texas it's currently illegal to have gay sex, or even straight oral and anal sex. Should these people be locked up?

Prior to 1865 if my farm equipment stopped working I simply had to beat it to get it back to work. Was owning people okay back then because it was legal.


I haven't even gone to google yet, these are just coming straight off of my head.

If I consider a law immoral, and the actions it prohibits morally justifiable, I will break the law if I feel like it.

I find purely deonthologcal ethics to be a reprehensible practice, substituting individual thought and strife to find what is right and wrong for a blind adherence to the moral codes of authority. It's a perfect recipe for stopping progress dead in its tracks.

I haven't read the thread yet, but I'm guessing that your neighbours are engaged in recreational drug use. If this is so, I'd consider your reporting them an immoral act of malice.

After reading the comments I have come to the conclusion that I may need to better explain my position. A point that keeps coming up is that what is lawful is not always what is morally right, and that one should not follow the law blindly. And I completely agree with that sentiment.

I am of the opinion that the core purpose of the law is to protect those who are innocent, punish those who are guilty, and preserve what is just and what is morally right. When a law fails to do this, if it used simply for the purpose of unjust oppression, tyranny, or violating common sense than it is the duty of any and all lawful citizens to strike that law down and revise it. So the laws propped up by an unjust authority, such as Nazi Germany or North Korea, or laws that maintain a system that is simply reprehensible, like slavery, need to be opposed by anyone who truly believes in what the law is meant to be. That is the essence of democracy and civilized society in general.

I also do not believe, in any sense, that all crimes are equal. A murderer and a jaywalker are not even remotely similar in terms of their crimes, and should be treated as such. And while things like the aforementioned jaywalking are against the law, I feel that they are minor enough that it is forgivable if one cannot follow it at all times.

But you see, that's just the problem: the people I'm referring to are not opposing some morally repulsive authority. They aren't protecting an inherent human right, defending what is just, or supporting some moral cause by breaking the law. They're doing it simply for the sake of breaking the law, for the sole purpose of raising a big middle finger to the rest of society because they find it amusing to do so. Is that really right? Is it really worth defending them when they have clearly done something opposed by both the law and common morality?

When you have to choose between what is lawful and what is right, you should always choose what is right. The law is not inherently sacred, but the righteous principles behind those laws are. But when you are not asked to choose, why should you not do both? Why should people not be expected to follow the law when doing so does not violate what is right, but instead supports it? You can never follow the law and still be good, and you can follow the law all the time and still not be a good person, but the ideal that people should be held to is being able to do both.

 

[winginson]

Going past 70 mph on motorways I also have no problem with as modern cars are more than controllable at 80+.

If you can't safely do 60 in a 40 (out of a town 40), or 100 on a motorway you shouldn't be allowed to drive. I would like the limits raised a bit but then theres too many people who can't drive well as it is.

Apart from speeding and my bikes pipes I follow the law fairly close.

Both you and the poster you quoted seem to misunderstand what speed limits are for.It has NOTHING to do with how well you can control your car. It's all about how likely you'll need to stop and the amount of time you'll need to do so. That's why highways are 70+ (no lights or pedestrians, just the occasional idiot) and residentials are 25 (kids playing in or near the street)

OT I abide by laws for the most part, but occasionally i'll go 5 over the limit, or jaywalk across an empty street. Not proud of it, but sometimes i just don't care.

Thats why I specified out of town. I don't speed through town because, as you say, there are far too many things that you may need to brake for. I was complaining about the times you see a nice straight road in the middle of nowhere pegged at 50mph, and the fact that while any good driver could safely go down a motorway at 100mph there are far too many people who can't do 70 safely. There are far too many people that don't crash only because they they fall into routine, and don't have the awareness to deal with anything else.

 

[Faladorian]

snip

I'm an 18-year-old male and I've never done any of those besides jaywalk and infringe copyright. Why do I feel like this post was just a way of showing off how "badass" you are?

Or it was a list of extremely average things that have happened in my life that if interpreted by the law, would see me charged with those offences... Go ahead, ask me about any of those charges and i'll tell you how "badass" it really was.

I didnt mean that they were somehow major offenses, because most of them arent. What i meant is, making the list in the first place seemed more along the lines of being showy, and deviated from the topic of simply stating your position.


But it was merely an observation. Everyone has their way of conveying their opinion, I just found yours odd. That's not to say that I'm implying you're just doing it for attention, that's just how it came across.

Believe me, I'm the king of bad first impressions, so I know face value as I interpret it can be far off the mark. For example, you probably felt antagonized by my statement, and I can see why, but that's not how I meant it to be. Needless to say I'm not applying to be a diplomat.

 

[Raven's Nest]

I didnt mean that they were somehow major offenses, because most of them arent. What i meant is, making the list in the first place seemed more along the lines of being showy, and deviated from the topic of simply stating your position.


But it was merely an observation. Everyone has their way of conveying their opinion, I just found yours odd. That's not to say that I'm implying you're just doing it for attention, that's just how it came across.

Believe me, I'm the king of bad first impressions, so I know face value as I interpret it can be far off the mark. For example, you probably felt antagonized by my statement, and I can see why, but that's not how I meant it to be. Needless to say I'm not applying to be a diplomat.

No worries. I guess I don't really know how I feel about the law in general. I consider myself to be a good, moral person but then as the argument has been waged, morality doesn't necessarily equal ethics. And since we are judged by a set of ethics rather than morals I think by displaying a list of laws I know have been broken (no matter how trivial or misconstrued), I aim to speak actions rather than words I guess.

I feel entirely indifferent, neither proud nor ashamed to the actual situations in which those laws have been broken. Apart from a few, the vast majority are victimless crimes. The excessive speeding was done on my own, on a clear motorway at the deadest part of the night. I wouldn't necessarily do it again but I can sure respect why we have such laws. The attempted theft was me drunkenly attempting to pinch someone's hubcap, because mine were also stolen... Not exactly crime of the century. The drugs offences, well being friends and occasionally doing the rounds with a drug dealer will make you an accessory to all that. I find the idea of making money off of selling drugs very reprehensible. And I don't hang with that person any more.

I think mostly I was demonstrating how an average, well meaning person can still find themselves foul of the law. I certainly wasn't aiming to show off so to speak. More of a commentary on the way teens from my background have grown up and respond to the sometimes arbritary laws in our society. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[not_you]

Friends of mine hate the law, and do everything in their power to oppose it without actually being punished... But petty things aside, I do hold it in very high standard...

Within the best of my ability, I adhere to all letters of the law, well, mostly... I should probably clean out my external to remove illegal material.

I admit, I'm not perfect, and I do break it every now-and-then without punishment just because I couldn't be bothered to look for things and just go "yeah, this will do" without thought...

I mean, that's a big vague, but it makes sense in my mind...

OT: As for reporting a crime of a neighbour... Yeah, I would... Mainly because I don't know my neighbours very well, if they were friends of mine, I'd ask them to stop (or at least get it out of my sight) before saying anything to police... But for the strangers, I have right now, I wouldn't wait a minute before reporting.

 

[Moderated]

I follow it, and disprove of people who don't, but I'm not a snitch. Everyone knows _____ smokes pot, and ____ downloads music illegally. Unless it's a serious crime, I'm silent. If on the other hand, I see someone being murdered or raped, then I'll speak up.

 

[Faladorian]

-8<---

I see where you're coming from. There are a lot of ways that a perfectly moral person can end up in the same cell as a violent criminal, and end up enduring punishment far, far beyond their actual wrongdoing.

Case and point: Marijuana. A teenager who smokes pot could end up going to jail and being beaten to death in a prison fight, simply because the consequence for an action was astronomically higher than the societal consequences of the action.


It's for this reason I abide by the law to the fullest: Not because I think it's absolute or always the right thing, but because my country's justice system is so irreparably fucked that even minor offenses can absolutely ruin your life.

If you haven't gathered, I'm not a very patriotic person.

 

[CAPTCHA]

Last time I broke the law was when I attempted to steal a DVD about 8 years back. I got caught and the security guards, ex military types, took me in the back room and kicked the absolute shit out of me. I still have a scar across my lower back where they hit me with a metal chair. Worst part was when they threw me into a corner and one of them pressed all their weight down on the top of my head. Almost broke my neck. That would have been a bad way to go out, in the back room of HMV.