How do people deal with console FPSes over PC ones?

[Treblaine]

Disclaimer: I play games, including FPS, on both consoles and PC. And yes, moving with an anolg stick is better than moving with a keyboard.

Is it though?

I played Portal on PC then on console and I noticed a major problem trying to bunny-hop, I kept flying off at slight angle every 2nd hop. It was really annoying as you know it's actually hard just to make your character run dead-straight ahead towards where you are pointing.

http://www.aviation.illinois.edu/avimain/papers/research/pub_pdfs/hfes/Evaluation%20of%20Input%20Devices%20for%20an%20FPS%20Program.pdf

I remember reading this article that made objective comparisons of gamepad and mouse controls and found The Mouse + keyboard players got from A to B quicker than gamepad players. The thing was Since thumbstick inherently allow 360° of rotational freedom, any intentional or unintentional sideways deviations in the movement of the thumbstick will interact and interfere with straight forward movement of the character. With M+KB you just have to hold W.

I mean where is it actually useful to be able to walk any of a continuous directions between 0-45-degrees from straight forward? When you can easily aim directly where you want to go?

Keyboard WITH mouse is a more efficient way of navigating a 3D world from a 1st person perspective.

 

[Racecarlock]

I just can. I can shoot down birds in red dead redemption without auto aim or dead eye.

But how quickly can you aim? Mouse isn't just more accurate, it is the SPEED the the precision that matters and more than that, the responsiveness. See you can literally in a millisecond reverse direction of a mouse, but with a thumbstick that requires you recentre the stick then try to direct it over in the opposite direction. That may seem subtle but when your opponent darts around unexpectedly you need to respond quickly. PC keyboard even has the advantage here, as though movement is digital with WASD controls you can dart left and right very quickly just by tapping A or D. Circle strafing is easy, just hold D and keep aiming at the target.

Number one, I can aim as quickly as I want to with sensitivity tuning. Number 2, I just don't give a shit about how superior your aiming methods are. I get it. The mouse is more accurate, the mouse can turn faster, the mouse can this, the mouse can that. I DON'T CARE! I can play FPS games perfectly fine with a controller and I'm tired of being told how superior the mouse is. I wish people would stop telling me, because this is probably the 10th time i've seen the same argument. It's getting really fucking annoying.

OK, so you know this already and you don't want to discuss how mouse is better than gamepad. WHY don't you care?

Why do you settle for less?

Don't you want something better? Like after you miss that shot that cost you a game, wouldn't you like to raise the stakes? As good as it is now you could have it even better with mouse + keyboard. Are you just comfortable and conservative, afraid of things you haven't tried before?

Why are you so disturbed by the idea that mouse + keyboard might be better? Have you really deluded yourself gamepad is on par with mouse?

We'd probably stop telling you if you gave mouse-aim a try.

Why do you care so much about converting me to using mouse aim? Why do I settle for less? Because I prefer it! But that isn't good enough you is it? You just won't leave me alone with my preference, and further more you're also being really pretentious and overconfident about it. It's almost like you're a christian preacher talking down to a Muslim or something. Let me aim with my gamepad in peace and shut the fuck up about its inferiority. I am sick if hearing about it and I am sick of you acting as though there can only be one superior control method and anyone thinking anything else is delusional or something. It's called personal preference, now DEAL WITH IT!

 

[Geekmaster]

Let's just say I like being able to look around in any direction indefinitely without having to place my mouse on the other end of my mouse pad.

I like PC for certain games, but in general I like console games a lot more because they're a lot more comfortable.

Time to get rid of that old ball mouse then. Moving my mouse from one side of the mousepad to the other will make me turn several several complete circles in an fps.

Using an analogue stick makes feel like you're controlling a tank.

I also don't like turning the sensitivity up to insane levels.

That, and I like sitting at a couch, watching a TV screen from across the room and using a controller for the entirety of the experience. To do that with a PC, you need to go kneel up to it, use the mouse and keyboard to start up whatever game you want, start up your controller software(Because the games I like don't support the gamepads I have) and then go sit down. And hope that nothing happens that cause the game to minimize unexpectedly.

Come to think of it, I found PC gaming to be a huge pain in the ass in general. A whole lot of fixing game breaking bugs, patching, modifying, bleh. I kind of like how everything is simple on consoles. It keeps things nice and relaxed.

Feel free to prefer consoles. I just commented on the fact that any decent M/KB setup is vastly more responsive than any controller is.

Edit: But if your PC is that much trouble, you might want to do a couple of virus scans, reformat it and stop downloading porn.

 

[Treblaine]

I just can. I can shoot down birds in red dead redemption without auto aim or dead eye.

But how quickly can you aim? Mouse isn't just more accurate, it is the SPEED the the precision that matters and more than that, the responsiveness. See you can literally in a millisecond reverse direction of a mouse, but with a thumbstick that requires you recentre the stick then try to direct it over in the opposite direction. That may seem subtle but when your opponent darts around unexpectedly you need to respond quickly. PC keyboard even has the advantage here, as though movement is digital with WASD controls you can dart left and right very quickly just by tapping A or D. Circle strafing is easy, just hold D and keep aiming at the target.

Number one, I can aim as quickly as I want to with sensitivity tuning. Number 2, I just don't give a shit about how superior your aiming methods are. I get it. The mouse is more accurate, the mouse can turn faster, the mouse can this, the mouse can that. I DON'T CARE! I can play FPS games perfectly fine with a controller and I'm tired of being told how superior the mouse is. I wish people would stop telling me, because this is probably the 10th time i've seen the same argument. It's getting really fucking annoying.

OK, so you know this already and you don't want to discuss how mouse is better than gamepad. WHY don't you care?

Why do you settle for less?

Don't you want something better? Like after you miss that shot that cost you a game, wouldn't you like to raise the stakes? As good as it is now you could have it even better with mouse + keyboard. Are you just comfortable and conservative, afraid of things you haven't tried before?

Why are you so disturbed by the idea that mouse + keyboard might be better? Have you really deluded yourself gamepad is on par with mouse?

We'd probably stop telling you if you gave mouse-aim a try.

Why do you care so much about converting me to using mouse aim? Why do I settle for less? Because I prefer it! But that isn't good enough you is it? You just won't leave me alone with my preference, and further more you're also being really pretentious and overconfident about it. It's almost like you're a christian preacher talking down to a Muslim or something. Let me aim with my gamepad in peace and shut the fuck up about its inferiority. I am sick if hearing about it and I am sick of you acting as though there can only be one superior control method and anyone thinking anything else is delusional or something. It's called personal preference, now DEAL WITH IT!

You tell me to "shut the fuck up" about how superior Mouse aim is when this thread IS all about how mouse-aim is so much better than game[ad and the issue of console gamers facing that truth.

Why did you post in this thread and read the comments and then caps-lock yell and curse that you don't want to be told the truth about how inferior the standard console control scheme is? Leave you in peace... you came here!

Anyway, what do you mean by "personal preference"? What is it you precisely prefer about gamepad? You can't just say familiarity, there is no way you are that conservative.

 

[Geekmaster]

Feel free to prefer consoles. I just commented on the fact that any decent M/KB setup is vastly more responsive than any controller is.

Edit: But if your PC is that much trouble, you might want to do a couple of virus scans, reformat it and stop downloading porn.

I don't download porn. All the issues I get are known and relatively common.

Also, more responsive? Are you certain that's the right word? Because I think you mean more precise. Controllers are perfectly responsive.

Ignore the porn comment, I meant you need to improve your knowledge of your computer. I rarely have issues and it's not a matter of coincidence.

And yes, they're more responsive. The mouse is more precise as well although I'm not sure that particular description really fits what a keyboard does.

 

[Cridhe]

the only FPS I play on consoles is Resistance. and I only play the single player.

FPS multiplayer on consoles are terrible, there's so little control with the right stick. no wonder everybody uses auto aim

Who's everybody? I play with people with legitimate skill, calling "HAX!!1!" on someone for being better than you is insane. People use aim bots on PC, even more so than console.

what? you can enable auto aim in many console FPS, don't give me that hacker crap

If you're not going to read the content of the post, don't come trolling me with stupidity like this. It has already been elaborated on.

 

[Krantos]

It balances imo. The accuracy of the mouse is counteracted by the inaccuracy of the WASD keys for movement. The inaccuracy of the Analog stick for aiming is balanced by the accuracy of the other analog stick for movement./quote]....

"stands up and starts walking around while staring at the monitor"

I have no idea what you're talking about. All you really need is 8 directions and sneak/sprint buttons. Top that with mouses mobility and you're set to go.

It's not the lack of directions. It's the binary nature of the keys. Press W and you're moving forward as quickly as possible. Release and you instantly stop. You have much better options with an analog stick, which allows you to vary your speed based on how far you move it. This came to a head while I was playing Far Cry and I was trying to sneak around a building. Suffice to say, binary movement is not conducive to sneaking.

IMO, it's just as big a difference as from the stick to the mouse for aiming. The Mouse works great for aiming, not just for accuracy but also because you can turn basically as fast as you move the mouse (dependent of sensitivity).

 

[Mechanix]

Oh look, it's another thread where PC gamers pretentiously act like they don't understand consoles. We sure don't have many of these around.

People enjoy shooters on consoles because they're used to the controllers. Just because a mouse and keyboard are better tools, doesn't mean they are the most enjoyable.

precision > your idea of fun every day of the week

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you here, but are you saying you'd rather be more precise than have fun?

 

[thelastmccabe]

I always feel the same way as OP about shooters. I'm terrible with a controller and I'd rather use a keyboard and mouse. Not just shooters either. For example, I sort of wanted to make a mage or an archer in Oblivion (for ps3), but I knew that aiming would end up being a big issue. I'm surprised by how many people prefer it, but to each his own. I guess if I stick with it for a while, I'll eventually get used to it as well.

 

[ACman]

The only multiplaer FPS I've really enjoyed on a console is Goldeneye. The controls their seem to serve the whole experience making it less of a twitch experience to more of a precision control feel.

 

[Treblaine]

Feel free to prefer consoles. I just commented on the fact that any decent M/KB setup is vastly more responsive than any controller is.

Edit: But if your PC is that much trouble, you might want to do a couple of virus scans, reformat it and stop downloading porn.

I don't download porn. All the issues I get are known and relatively common.

Also, more responsive? Are you certain that's the right word? Because I think you mean more precise. Controllers are perfectly responsive.

Electronically, of course mouse or gamepad are just as responsive. But ergonomically a mouse is more responsive. Ergonomic as in the mechanics of human-machine-interface.

With a mouse, You can INSTANTLY stop or change the vector (speed and direction) of the reticule. With a thumbstick it takes a small but significant moment with the thumbstick to bring it from angling one way to angling the other. And you can't push the stick over too fast as that means more force and putting either too much angle and overshooting.

Take a look at this:


Can't you see how responsive mouse movement is? How you can dart your "head" around?

With gamepad you have to temper every look to not overshoot what you are trying to look at. Mouse aim's directly proportional input means you can just make a movement an know where your aim is going to end up, not move the thumbstick - wait for it to move around - then time it perfectly to let go at the right moment.

I have used both gamepad and Mouse aim extensively and mouse-look is just a joy, I even preferred to play Mirror's Edge with a mouse and keyboard, a game that is all about responsiveness, not precision. When I played it with a gamepad I literally could not match my times it got with M+KB. Analogue movement is pointless in a game that is all about maintaining perfect forward movement.

Have you seen the speedruns? They are always done on PC if there is a PC version simply because mouse-aim is QUICKER and more responsive.


(skip to 4 minutes in)
See that crazy shit?

 

[Treblaine]

Oh look, it's another thread where PC gamers pretentiously act like they don't understand consoles. We sure don't have many of these around.

People enjoy shooters on consoles because they're used to the controllers. Just because a mouse and keyboard are better tools, doesn't mean they are the most enjoyable.

precision > your idea of fun every day of the week

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you here, but are you saying you'd rather be more precise than have fun?

No, he's saying that mouse is more fun, that your idea of fun is far too limited.

A mouse is more than just more precise, it's more responsive too.

We PC gamers go on about this forever because so many console gamers absolutely refuse to give Mouse + Keyboard a fair shake. I have put hundreds of hours into FPS game controlled with a gamepad and no they can't live up to Mouse look, not even close.

I'm absolutely fed up to my back teeth with "oh gamepad is more familiar, therefore more enjoyable" what a ridiculous conservative fallacy. If console gamers were really that conservative they'd still be using these controllers!

How about you try a controller that doesn't have an endorsement from a major brand like Playstation of Xbox? You can't deny the power of advertising, marketing and product placement. They make 360/PS3 controllers seem way more appealing simply by association. That's the "familiarity prejudice" of preferring 360/DS3 controllers.