How do you reason with religious people?

[Caligulove]

Most of the time I don't since the only one that loudly takes issue with something or one of my opinions is anything but a reasonable person and are too arrogant and stubborn to ever change their way of thinking simply from someone having an argument. They go into the argument knowing they're right no matter what and that any "so-called evidence" that their godless opponent can come up with was arrived at without considering God so therefore is not valid.

There are religious people who think there is no such thing as an Atheist, because to them they've been told their whole lives that everyone is made by God and any human that doesn't believe is actively choosing not to reject God. It's not a matter of accepting their lack of God or understanding their reasoning, just either bullying or passive aggressively wondering when they'll "return to God"

It's an endless cycle and there's really no point to it. I suppose you could see who can shout longer, but that would probably result in the religious person lashing out violently to prove how peaceful their religion is by beating its tenants into your head.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Disclaimer: I know these types of posts are frowned upon, but this is made not to troll, and I don't want a flame war. This is an honest question asking for help, and I ask to PLEASE keep it clean.:

It started when I told my religious friend about the whole WBC vs Anon thing.. to my shock he seemed to take the side of WBC, simply because they share the same type of religion (though I don't think he understands what they do different...) suddenly I'm in a 2 hour debate as if I attacked him.. No matter what I said he would yell and start attacking me personally, even on things that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. He just went nuts.

Finally I asked him a simple question.. "Do you think the WBC are part of the same religion as you, yes or no?" I never got an answer, in 20 posts of IM, I got cursing, insulting, straying off topic, but not a single yes or no.

So.. I guess for a lack of better word, Subject "How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

OK, seriously? You don't.
Now, I mean no offense to people's beliefs here, but the very definition of 'faith' is believing something irrespective of evidence.

How can you reason with anyone that takes that as their starting position? It's not possible.

If I imply the bible isn't necessarily true, I'm already 'attacking' their beliefs, and thus in their mind am wrong by default.

How can you ever reason with anyone that views anything that contradicts their beliefs (no matter if those beliefs are true, or utterly misguided) as inherently wrong (or even evil)?

It can't be done. It depends entirely on the person you are talking to being somewhat flexible in their beliefs, or at least tolerant of alternative perspectives on things.
You can't have a debate on a subject where the answer is a foregone conclusion. (Incedentally, this applies to scientists that blindly believe certain theories as much as it does to religions. Wherever any idea becomes unquestionably 'true', all debate ends.)

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Disclaimer: I know these types of posts are frowned upon, but this is made not to troll, and I don't want a flame war. This is an honest question asking for help, and I ask to PLEASE keep it clean.:

It started when I told my religious friend about the whole WBC vs Anon thing.. to my shock he seemed to take the side of WBC, simply because they share the same type of religion (though I don't think he understands what they do different...) suddenly I'm in a 2 hour debate as if I attacked him.. No matter what I said he would yell and start attacking me personally, even on things that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. He just went nuts.

Finally I asked him a simple question.. "Do you think the WBC are part of the same religion as you, yes or no?" I never got an answer, in 20 posts of IM, I got cursing, insulting, straying off topic, but not a single yes or no.

So.. I guess for a lack of better word, Subject "How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

How old is your friend? It sounds like 14 year old arguing about his favorite game. Expose him to the WBC and if he still sides with them...I feel sorry for you.

 

[Section Crow]

i just say, your belief cannot be proved nor disapproved so you are not right i am not right until the day comes when it can be proved or disapproved.

change topic and whoop te du you have reasoned with a religious person, changes with levels of intelligence and belief though

 

[alimarin]

If the Westboro Baptist Church ever come to my city, I would bring a bible and read scripture to them in which they are blatantly disobeying, even though I am agnostic. The irony in this would be so much that their ignorant heads would explode. Their perception that god hates sinners in the first place is wrong, because first, he treats any and all sin equally. Second, god IS love, and that one has multiple verses that repeat 'GOD IS LOVE' so much, that they're triple as idiotic.

 

[Mikkaddo]

you can't reason with someone who believes you to be ultimately wrong.

Look at it like this, imagine you got up one day, knowing that you're a man . . . having know this for the however many years you've been alive . . . and someone came up to you and said you were a woman . . . you know it's not true, but they say so regardless. Never admitting that you're a man . . .

that's how he seems to react to this. The fact is, he believes it so very strongly that nothing will make him "see the light" or lack there of. If a person believes it strongly enough anything you say otherwise is a lie to them.

 

[Antidrall]

Whenever I have a jehova's witness coming up my front porch, I either put out my sign "No religious Zealots" or I get my gay friend to make out with his boyfriend behind me while they're at the front door.

 

[Lord Honk]

Politicians and religious people I don't try to reason with. You might get lucky and catch the odd one who isn't predetermined and overly biased, but from personal experience, those are rare. Worst case are the "Yes, because yes" types, where evidence of their wrongness is so solid you'd like to bludgeon them with it and they still stand firm by what nonsense they're talking.

I'd just rather not try and engage in a fight I'm gonna lose, through attrition most likely xD

 

[Jim-a-Lim]

I am a christian, meaning I have a relationship that is based upon commiting my life to Jesus because he died for me, but that means I spend time with him and talk to him in order to centre my life around him. I find that this means I am happy to respect what others believe and I honestly have more friends who are gay/hindu/muslim and all other sorts than I do in the church. I do also find alot of people who brand themselves with the "christian" label don't share that same personal thing that I have with God, and I leave that to open interpretation cause honestly? Fair play to them too.

KEY POINT: It's just you'll find alot of people get quickly offended when they feel they are being questioned, and that includes their beliefs regardless of whether or not they are religious ones.

 

[Jim-a-Lim]

If the Westboro Baptist Church ever come to my city, I would bring a bible and read scripture to them in which they are blatantly disobeying, even though I am agnostic. The irony in this would be so much that their ignorant heads would explode. Their perception that god hates sinners in the first place is wrong, because first, he treats any and all sin equally. Second, god IS love, and that one has multiple verses that repeat 'GOD IS LOVE' so much, that they're triple as idiotic.

Gold star for a christian (me ) - arguement well constructed and exactly on the money.

 

[Nieroshai]

Disclaimer: I know these types of posts are frowned upon, but this is made not to troll, and I don't want a flame war. This is an honest question asking for help, and I ask to PLEASE keep it clean.:

It started when I told my religious friend about the whole WBC vs Anon thing.. to my shock he seemed to take the side of WBC, simply because they share the same type of religion (though I don't think he understands what they do different...) suddenly I'm in a 2 hour debate as if I attacked him.. No matter what I said he would yell and start attacking me personally, even on things that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. He just went nuts.

Finally I asked him a simple question.. "Do you think the WBC are part of the same religion as you, yes or no?" I never got an answer, in 20 posts of IM, I got cursing, insulting, straying off topic, but not a single yes or no.

So.. I guess for a lack of better word, Subject "How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

Here's my nondenominational Protestant perspective: I wish WBC would shut the hell up, but I believe in their right to speak freely. I don't see them as true Christians because they forsake Jesus' teachings in favor of the Hebrew laws as well as a few they seem to have made up themselves. I don't know what's up with your friend, but most of the Christians I've ever met facepalm every time WBC is mentioned.
You will also find I am very easily reasoned with, mostly because I'm a philosopher at heart.

 

[Chibz]

I tell them that I'm not religious, but I respect their beliefs. I do act surprised whenever I meet someone religious (like when I found out two of my uni friends go to church - I've not had friends who did that).

How do I respond if I DON'T respect their religion?

 

[lacktheknack]

Disclaimer: I know these types of posts are frowned upon, but this is made not to troll, and I don't want a flame war. This is an honest question asking for help, and I ask to PLEASE keep it clean.:

It started when I told my religious friend about the whole WBC vs Anon thing.. to my shock he seemed to take the side of WBC, simply because they share the same type of religion (though I don't think he understands what they do different...) suddenly I'm in a 2 hour debate as if I attacked him.. No matter what I said he would yell and start attacking me personally, even on things that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. He just went nuts.

Finally I asked him a simple question.. "Do you think the WBC are part of the same religion as you, yes or no?" I never got an answer, in 20 posts of IM, I got cursing, insulting, straying off topic, but not a single yes or no.

So.. I guess for a lack of better word, Subject "How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

Three things:

1. Wrong forum.
2. Your friend's an idiot.
3. Religion isn't the issue here.

Most religious people are very reasonable (say, for example, me). Of course, it never seems that way, because the unreasonable ones are the ones you remember, and the ones who trumpet how religious they are.

Anyways, if your friend was a reasonable person in general, he still might be religious. If he bothers to look into a single thing they say, he'd realize that he most certainly is NOT the same religion as them. Unless he really is, in which case you have a hateful radical-without-a-clue on your hands.

 

[lacktheknack]

Speaking of Religious Nut Jobs

This has nothing to do with the thread, but I know some people will like this

Well, look what god inspired me to post: (785-273-0325 - Fred W. Phelps Sr., cell phone (785) 272-4135 - Fred Phelps, Jr. (785) 273-0529 - Benjamin Phelps (785) 233-4162 - Phelps Family Law Office (785) 233-0766 - Fax for Phelps Family Law Office Westboro Baptist Church 3701 SW 12th St Topeka, KS 66604 (785) 273-0325

I wouldn't phone those numbers if I were you... you'll get sued.

 

[Nieroshai]

Whenever I have a jehova's witness coming up my front porch, I either put out my sign "No religious Zealots" or I get my gay friend to make out with his boyfriend behind me while they're at the front door.

Clever. I'm still trying to find ways to deter JWs.
I once scared off a pair of Mormon Missionaries when I actually agreed to talk to them and asked them why the first edition of the book of Mormon was dedicated to THE Angel of Light, who appeared in the form of a white Salamander. THE angel of light was Lucifer, and he often appeared in his Cherubim form, a brilliantly white dragonoid as they're described in old texts. Salamander was often used interchangeably with "dragon." They usually leave at this point.


EDIT: this argument actually made one of my friends doubt his religion. He also didn't like women getting the short end of the stick in the whole Celestial Marriage thing.

 

[Nimcha]

Like any other person I think. I never reason with them about their own religion simply because religion isn't supposed to be reasonable. Besides that I have only ever met a few people who were the close-minded religion type, and that was because they didn't like me dating their daughter. That's when I learned there is no point in even trying to reason with such people.

 

[Miken Maniac]

Three things:

1. Wrong forum.
2. Your friend's an idiot.
3. Religion isn't the issue here.

Most religious people are very reasonable (say, for example, me). Of course, it never seems that way, because the unreasonable ones are the ones you remember, and the ones who trumpet how religious they are.

Anyways, if your friend was a reasonable person in general, he still might be religious. If he bothers to look into a single thing they say, he'd realize that he most certainly is NOT the same religion as them. Unless he really is, in which case you have a hateful radical-without-a-clue on your hands.

The above is the best response throughout this entire thread.

There is a difference between "being religious" and being a Christian. I notice a lot of so called atheists on this forum. That's fine and dandy. I'm not going to beat a Bible over your head. That's your choice. I've made mine. Have a good one. I made my choice to accept Jesus as my personal savior and believe he died on the cross for all our sins. The opportunity is there for everyone as a gift. It can not be earned. It can not be purchased.

 

[Chibz]

Congratulation! You are now at the opposite end of the spectrum. Neither of you will make any headway. So you should both end the conversation.

I don't disrespect them. I just don't respect the religion itself. You see, my boy, not all ideas are inheritly equal. Some are distinctly inferior, or less civilized than others.

Just as a note: I was raised christian and thoroughly reject the religious brainwashing I was subjected to.

 

[Nieroshai]

i just say, your belief cannot be proved nor disapproved so you are not right i am not right until the day comes when it can be proved or disapproved.

change topic and whoop te du you have reasoned with a religious person, changes with levels of intelligence and belief though

I wish more people reasoned like you instead of trying to literally prove that there is nothing out there. I am perfectly fine with atheism, agnosticism, and all other religions, but I reserve the right to reasonably believe my case is possible, as I expect you would do as well. There very well might not be anything, but there is no concrete proof of the intangible, nor is there any proof against it.

 

[Hatiras]

Took it down, but it wasnt mine to begin with, but the last thing I need is to be paid a visit from the cops

So its gone