How do you reason with religious people?

[InfiniteSingularity]

WBC and anyone who supports them are NOT religious, they're simply fucking morons.

Well, they are religious. How many different interpretations are there of single religions? You can't just discount one because it's views are abhorrent.

Sorry, but saying the WBC are Christians is like saying the Dalai Lama is a fascist. The WBC completely misses the point of their own religion, which is compassion, kindness, and other such things that Jesus taught. Everything they do goes against everything Christ said, things like "peace to all man", "God loves everyone", and whatnot. There isn't anything about homosexuality in the Bible, nor is there any evidence that God demands "cleansing" such things. They just made shit up. And when they quoted that part from the Bible (can't remember what it was) and said that it meant the Interned was made for the WBC to spread their messages is all bullshit. They are completely insensitive (protesting AT people's funerals?) and lack compassion to anyone outside their group. They lack intelligence (they have stated that their goal is effectively to scare people into sinning so other people will sin and go to hell), and they have absolutely no evidence or reason to believe, preach, and justify their beliefs (Barack Obama, the fucking Antichrist? Give me a fucking break). In short, they're just believing what they're to believe, and doing what they are told to do. I've even heard stories that the WBC raises children on these beliefs

There is no "Christianity" in the WBC, just hate. What happened to "Love your enemy"? A fundamental principle in Christianity, WBC goes entirely against that. They're not Christians. They might be Theist, but their God is definitely not the Christian God

You can find any passage in the Bible and bend it to whatever which way you want to interpret it. There's stuff in the Old Testament that's particularly nasty.

So, yes, your interpretation is that. But that's it, an interpretation. It's the more popular interpretation, but again, interpretation.

There's a difference between interpreting something that fits with your beliefs, and disobeying the majority of the Bible. I take again "Love your enemy", this was Jesus' fundamental message throughout the Bible, and they've done the exact opposite of what it said. And that's not the only thing.

The other thing is that these people were raised from birth by the WBC (correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I've heard) and indoctrinated by the original beliefs of the WBC. So there isn't any rationality in this "interpretation" of the Bible, as they're just doing what they've been told all their life. So you can't really justify what they are saying as "their opinion" because it's not; it's someone else's opinion they're parroting because they're too stupid to think for themselves

 

[Jegsimmons]

most of us religious people are usually open minded to a point, but only the insane take the side of WBC.

but im not honestly sure why you have to "Reason With Us", every one has their own beliefs, you wont change their mind just by stating your point. after all, i know atheist and people of other beliefs, i'll have a conversation about our differences in beliefs and why i follow mine, but i wont try to convince them to join me.

 

[pwnzerstick]

Just a quick note: How come, that whenever someone is talking about God they feel it neccecary to say it in the same voice Samuel L Jackson gives his speech in during Pulp Fiction, and say it with a lexicon from scripture.
OT: I would reason that the WBC's assuptions about God are wrong by asking them if God is perfect. I'm guessing that they would say yes. I would then say that if hates gays and wants to kill them all, then doesn't that make God wrathful, and if wrath is a sin then wouldn't that mean that God is a sinner, and therefore not perfect.

 

[Nikokvaj]

But WBC really is the winner of that debate.

The only real objective of Anonymous is to create rage and butthurt, exactly what they are experiencing because of WBC.

As for reasoning with a member of the WBC, you can't.

You can't reason with a person who thinks it's his or her right to tell other people what to do based on morals, ethics, ideology or religious belief because neither of these things are objective, and therefore aren't subject to objective reasoning.

 

[Woodsey]

WBC and anyone who supports them are NOT religious, they're simply fucking morons.

Well, they are religious. How many different interpretations are there of single religions? You can't just discount one because it's views are abhorrent.

Sorry, but saying the WBC are Christians is like saying the Dalai Lama is a fascist. The WBC completely misses the point of their own religion, which is compassion, kindness, and other such things that Jesus taught. Everything they do goes against everything Christ said, things like "peace to all man", "God loves everyone", and whatnot. There isn't anything about homosexuality in the Bible, nor is there any evidence that God demands "cleansing" such things. They just made shit up. And when they quoted that part from the Bible (can't remember what it was) and said that it meant the Interned was made for the WBC to spread their messages is all bullshit. They are completely insensitive (protesting AT people's funerals?) and lack compassion to anyone outside their group. They lack intelligence (they have stated that their goal is effectively to scare people into sinning so other people will sin and go to hell), and they have absolutely no evidence or reason to believe, preach, and justify their beliefs (Barack Obama, the fucking Antichrist? Give me a fucking break). In short, they're just believing what they're to believe, and doing what they are told to do. I've even heard stories that the WBC raises children on these beliefs

There is no "Christianity" in the WBC, just hate. What happened to "Love your enemy"? A fundamental principle in Christianity, WBC goes entirely against that. They're not Christians. They might be Theist, but their God is definitely not the Christian God

You can find any passage in the Bible and bend it to whatever which way you want to interpret it. There's stuff in the Old Testament that's particularly nasty.

So, yes, your interpretation is that. But that's it, an interpretation. It's the more popular interpretation, but again, interpretation.

There's a difference between interpreting something that fits with your beliefs, and disobeying the majority of the Bible. I take again "Love your enemy", this was Jesus' fundamental message throughout the Bible, and they've done the exact opposite of what it said. And that's not the only thing.

The other thing is that these people were raised from birth by the WBC (correct me if I'm wrong but this is what I've heard) and indoctrinated by the original beliefs of the WBC. So there isn't any rationality in this "interpretation" of the Bible, as they're just doing what they've been told all their life. So you can't really justify what they are saying as "their opinion" because it's not; it's someone else's opinion they're parroting because they're too stupid to think for themselves

What's rational about following the guide of a book that's a few 1000 years old anyway?

And yeah, but again, people with the more standard interpretation (who also just pick and choose what they want to follow) push their kids into it, which I don't agree with either. It's not as bad, but they're not wholly different.

 

[Chibz]

I never said you should, and where does it say to kill homosexuals anyway? In fact I don't think homosexuals were even mention of not brief till non-existent. Never called you dogmatic either, just saying that both sounds so much alike that neither recognizes the similarities that they share, that which being that no one really cares their belief when put out in the open with such zealotry of pushing their values on others, or telling them that their values are wrong because it doesn't fit their beliefs. Sorry if I made it to be a personal attack to you.

It's mostly old testament, in leviticus. It's brief, but it's there. It's actually about as lengthy as any one of the ten commandment rules. Bible talks more about the fatty area around the kidney and liver (I think?) and how it's perfect to burn as a sacrifice. And in more detail about how to massacre EVERYONE who doesn't follow him as their deity. Guess those parts were just more important.

With me I recognize that people have the right to be mentally unwell, and people have the right to be wrong. But please, PLEASE, PLEASE do not try to force the words from a book written by primitive desert nomads onto me. I find that incredibly offensive.

Also, no offense taken.

What's rational about following the guide of a book that's a few 1000 years old anyway?

And yeah, but again, people with the more standard interpretation (who also just pick and choose what they want to follow) push their kids into it, which I don't agree with either. It's not as bad, but they're not wholly different.

Pushing a religion onto a kid with the sole purpose of making them religious is, at its core, child abuse. You're warping their young minds long before they're finished forming. It's monstrous and unforgivable.

 

[The Random One]

Firstly, this should be in Religion and Politics.

Secondly, would the Escapist PLEASE, for the love of all that is good, stop lumping all religious people in with their radical fanatics? Over 90% of America is religious, and within that group, a good three-quarters of them just live their lives like any other regular person in the country. You live with them, you go to work and/or school with them, you play games with them. The great majority of us are completely reasonable people, and you know it. If your friend is a WBC supporter, that's just your friend's opinion. The WBC is its own extremist entity within Christianity that has no influence over any other Christian church.

On a related note, within religious "grouping", if you will, why are so many people so quick to separate moderate Islam from its extremist elements, yet so happy to judge Christianity by its extremist elements without batting an eye? I'm not usually this confrontational about it, but I've gotta say, hypocritical much?

I was skimming the first page of this thread and loved this post. I like how he complains that one guy has grouped his idiot friend with all religious people by grouping one gramatically-challenged poster with all of the Escapist.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

I try to tell them, that I do not believe, but I know. IE: I trust evidence, and if they can come with hard evidence that what they believe is true, then I can change my views, however, religious people hardly want to find evidence, since that would make them knowers and not believers... so yea... I can't reason with them, only tell them what I think.

Some of us religious folks see scientific pursuit of knowledge as a way to better understand how God works, and thus we fully embrace questioning and experimentation. The universe is infinite and expanding, so who are we to say something does or doesn't exist based on our own infinitesimally small experience and observations? I just try to stay open to whatever possibilities the universe presents me.

 

[The Lunatic]

I generally respect other's religions.

I respect their choice to live devoutly by their faith.


This refers only to those who aren't brainwashed idiots, however.

I've yet to meet one of those in the UK.

 

[CATB320]

You don't really reason with religious people. Religion is based on faith, which goes against logic.

Don't get me wrong, this isn't to say that everyone who follows a religion is totally batshit insane. But the point is to believe in something greater than you -- not necessarily by deducing facts, but by having faith that it's there.

 

[Shadowkire]

Disclaimer: I know these types of posts are frowned upon, but this is made not to troll, and I don't want a flame war. This is an honest question asking for help, and I ask to PLEASE keep it clean.:

It started when I told my religious friend about the whole WBC vs Anon thing.. to my shock he seemed to take the side of WBC, simply because they share the same type of religion (though I don't think he understands what they do different...) suddenly I'm in a 2 hour debate as if I attacked him.. No matter what I said he would yell and start attacking me personally, even on things that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. He just went nuts.

Finally I asked him a simple question.. "Do you think the WBC are part of the same religion as you, yes or no?" I never got an answer, in 20 posts of IM, I got cursing, insulting, straying off topic, but not a single yes or no.

So.. I guess for a lack of better word, Subject "How do you reason with religious people?" and simple (non-stupid) answers?

Your question is in itself inflammatory, as your "friend's" issue isn't that he is religious, but that he is a huge douche. His religion merely gave a point of disagreement for him to blow out of proportion like any of the millions of spoiled children in adult bodies we have these days.

My advice is to let the subject go, give him some time to cool down and then get back into contact while trying your damnedest to not mention your argument at all.

 

[Tdc2182]

Simply I just don't talk about religious subjects with them.

And in all honesty, I have never had an edgy religious encounter with any of my friends. Like, not even close. People tend to extremely over exaggerate encounters with religious people.

And if you do have a friend who doesn't see what is wrong with WBC, then quite simply

fucking disown him.

 

[CATB320]

The argument SHOULD be:

The bible says "Don't judge people. Leave it to God."
The WBC judges people and doesn't leave it to God.
Therefore, the WBC is wrong.

That makes sense until you realize that the WBC is not the only group that judges people. Almost every single person in the world judges people (with the exception of very few, if at all) including you and me. Does that mean that we are all "wrong"?

If I said "yes", how would you respond?

I think I love you.

 

[Life_Is_A_Mess]

Everyone I know who is religous accepts the views of others so I've never had to reason with any.

However I like to have this quote in my mind most of the time, doubt it would work but I like it

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able, and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God."
- Epicurus, 33 A.D

You sir, ninja'd every single word I was about to say. This is very well said and can be used to reason with any racional cristian in a debate.
I don't have those many religious debates since whenever people have them, the religious ones are always changing topics and not letting the science ones explain themselves...

 

[Qmonster]

I have a degree in Religions, so I am actually certified to tell you that over 80% of the world defines as religious in some way. People of faith are as varied as atheists. As an atheist, I understand the awkwardness of interfaith debate from this side of the fence, but the most important things to remember when speaking with someone you disagree with on a fundamental world view are: One religious person is not like another (i.e. don't generalize from one encounter), and that sometimes you and the other person will never be able to see eye to eye on some subjects. When someone seems to be spouting nonsense, trying to yell louder is not the answer, because you probably sound as senseless to them as they do to you. I doubt the world population will ever really agree on some ideas, but I think the important thing is to work with what we *do* agree on.

 

[SovietSecrets]

Simple, I ask you say there is a God correct? If they reply no, then your argument is finished. If they say yes, I ask prove to me that your God exists since you are the one saying he does. Show me something concrete that God has done, if you can't show me this then you have no God to prove to me.

 

[GotMalkAvian]

1. By definition, you can't reason with religious people. I'm not saying this to sound like a jerk, but religious belief is illogical and unreasonable. I have my own beliefs, and I'm willing to admit that they're beyond logic.

2. Your friend might be the only Christian outside of the WBC who still sees them as Christians, too.

 

[Royta]

You reason with them by understanding them and respecting their opinion. Only if you do that can you reason with them, if not you get hit by a brickwall.

 

[RatRace123]

As it's been said, his religious beliefs have nothing to do with being an idiot and taking the side of the WBC.
As for reasoning with idiots, you really can't.

 

[Lem0nade Inlay]

I'm religious, Catholic-Christian, in fact.

Your friend is just ignorant, blame his upbringing.

Show him the website godhatesfags.com, and see what he says.

If he still abuses you, he is really not a good friend.