How is 9/11 viewed internationally?

[Uncreation]

Where i live, nobody cares. We have much bigger problems. Hell, if it weren't for this thread i would have completely forgotten.

 

[Aposthebest]

Personally I would feel sorry for any of the families that the incident took its toll from,but for America as a nation, I wouldn't care any less and the only reason why it could bear any significance here in Greece is because most of the population are being mindlessly sheep-herded by the media.(We had the royal wedding on our tv screens for 3 freakin days,for christ's sake!)

America in my eyes has no right whatsoever to call that a big blow after the atrocities your favourite Uncle Sam has caused all over the world. The list of deaths from America is endless and surely extends to much more than 3000-4000.

Imagine a serial killer who has killed hundreds of victims stand in the middle of a square garden and yell that he was victim of violence due to one of the victims' family member cutting his pinky toe, that's what America and 9/11 is in my eyes by a national prespective.

Ima come at this from a new angle. How exactly is it my responsibility for all the "atrocities" my country commits overseas? Let's forget that I was in the fifth grade when we invaded Iraq. The guys calling the shots over there are not elected by the people of America.

Now lets take your serial killer analogy with my argument as support. Could you blame the families of the victims of the serial killer when they called for the head of the person that killed their loved ones? I sure wouldn't. In my eyes, i was in the third grade when the towers fell, as someone physically unaffected by said events I saw our country as no longer untouchable. I wouldn't go so far as to say I lost my innocence, but damnit I was a little boy an I was afraid. My country could no longer protect me and the old adage "the best defense is a good offense" seemed like our best bet. So please explain to me what I did to commit all these atrocities as a now 18 year old American citizen?

This reply makes me wonder if you have read my post entirely. In case you didn't notice,I did mention that I would feel sorry for the families themselves and the individuals.

But the anniversary and the worldwide publicity is not about the families,it's about the country. You and no single individual american represents the country. What does represent the country is its actions as a whole and when America wants publicity for something so minor compared to what they have done in history, they won't have my 2 cents,that's my point of view.

I didn't blame you or any american personally,I blamed your country, the same way I'd blame mine for all the bullshit we're going through.

If after 10 years your country thinks that it was SUCH a big issue that it needs to be brought upon the world every single year, then I doubt your country actually cares about the families anyway, for them they just lost the terror war. I highly doubt that they would shed any actual REAL tear for the families.

Ok, what is the "country" then? Or better yet, who is it?

To me a moment of silence for 9/11 is all that's in order, but to each his own, if some other country wants to pay its respects then go for it.

Also, I doubt 9/11 is just gonna fade away into the background. It's the event that sparked all this crazy shit and it isn't hard to trace the roots of the financial crisis back to 9/11. I'm sorry that your sick of us shoving it down your throats, but I'm sick of you demonizing America. Every country has skeletons in it's closet, America just hasn't closed the door yet.

The problem is that America has never closed the door and doesn't seem like it has any intentions to do so as well.

 

[Brandon237]

It happened on my father's birthday, so it is 10% more relevant to me, I see it as sad, the conspiracy... ideas as stupid and the invasion that followed as rather rash. But it is still a sad day, and I feel sorry for the people who died and their loved ones.

 

[Agayek]

I personally see a few things wrong with that statement.
The first is that torture and killing like that is just revenge, and while revenge seems like a good idea sometimes, if you look at it throughout history, revenge has only ended up with more suffering, more people dead and very few problems actually solved. I mean, look at world war 2, the best example of how revenge fucks everything and everyone up.

The second is that, if we do torture those kinds of people, we would be doing to them what they do to others. It would be letting them teach us how to act. It is the same with the states and 9/11. they have let the terrorists teach them how to act, and in so doing we ALL lose (IE, the world we have now).

It has nothing to do with revenge, nor is it about intimidation/prevention.

It has entirely to do with enforcing the social contract that creates society. When someone crosses the line, they must be punished, or the line is meaningless. The punishment must, in turn, escalate in severity as the infraction does.

Rape and murder are just about as far over the line as one can go, especially with multiple victims. The only appropriate response is a slow, agonizing death.

It's the basic nature of a society. Actions have consequences, and those actions that threaten the society and those within it must be dealt with.

 

[esperandote]

I thought it was a dick move and i feel very sorry for the victims and their families. They just aired two (or three, i watched two) movies about 9/11 the day before yesterday. I can't imagine the pain and desperation they felt trapped to rather jump than to be burned to dead and the pain of burn victims that survided and the policemen and firefighters that died trying to save others.

I remember i was in class and the teacher entered the classroom and started telling us about it by saying a tasteless joke.

 

[Temple of Dregs]

Do you mean on an emotional level? Because it doesn't have a lot of emotional meaning for me. I didn't lose family or anyone I know, and New York is a few thousand kilometers from where I am even though I'm only a 49th parallel away from the States. I remember the attacks and the news and some parts of the day in surprisingly specific detail though, I remember our teacher telling us kind of what happened then learning about Venn diagrams with translucent coloured rings.

But if you mean "Does 9/11 have meaning internationally?" then you sure as shit better believe it does. Seriously. Anyone who wants to be like "Nah bro it's so far off from us no one really cares" or "Well I'm not American so it didn't really effect me" can shut their fat mouths because you are wrong. 9/11 changed the world, for everyone and you'd better bloody believe it was - and still is - a big deal.

Awesome and well said.

 

[ShadowsofHope]

I personally see a few things wrong with that statement.
The first is that torture and killing like that is just revenge, and while revenge seems like a good idea sometimes, if you look at it throughout history, revenge has only ended up with more suffering, more people dead and very few problems actually solved. I mean, look at world war 2, the best example of how revenge fucks everything and everyone up.

The second is that, if we do torture those kinds of people, we would be doing to them what they do to others. It would be letting them teach us how to act. It is the same with the states and 9/11. they have let the terrorists teach them how to act, and in so doing we ALL lose (IE, the world we have now).

It has nothing to do with revenge, nor is it about intimidation/prevention.

It has entirely to do with enforcing the social contract that creates society. When someone crosses the line, they must be punished, or the line is meaningless. The punishment must, in turn, escalate in severity as the infraction does.

Rape and murder are just about as far over the line as one can go, especially with multiple victims. The only appropriate response is a slow, agonizing death.

It's the basic nature of a society. Actions have consequences, and those actions that threaten the society and those within it must be dealt with.

And that is what you do in a court room, not in a torture chamber. Justice is not flaying someone until you personally feel content with their suffering over your own, it is allowing a court of law and a judge to make an objective decision concerning due punishment without the rampaging emotions of any victims getting in the way of such a balanced decision. We are not ancient Rome, where we decide "justice" by tossing someone to the lions and forgetting about them - or enjoying their suffering in an audience from arena stands.

Torture only puts you on the level of the terrorists whom orchestrated 9/11, not above them. Every video you see of terrorists beheading someone after making a speech? Now look at Guantanamo Bay.

 

[ckam]

Japan, it makes me jealous that no one remembers anything that happened in Asia, but I guess that's more of a personal thing about unintentional racism than anything else. But, we do feel sorry for you guys. We just don't make a huge deal out of it. Also, we've got our own problems to take care of.

 

[Cooperblack]

What I'm really curious about is : Do any Americans remember the date of the tsunami that struck in the Indian ocean killing 230.000?

 

[Agayek]

And that is what you do in a court room, not in a torture chamber. Justice is not flaying someone until you personally feel content with their suffering over your own, it is allowing a court of law and a judge to make an objective decision concerning due punishment without the rampaging emotions of any victims getting in the way of such a balanced decision. We are not ancient Rome, where we decide "justice" by tossing someone to the lions and forgetting about them - or enjoying their suffering in an audience from arena stands.

Torture only puts you on the level of the terrorists whom orchestrated 9/11, not above them. Every video you see of terrorists beheading someone after making a speech? Now look at Guantanamo Bay.

As I said, it's not about satisfying anyone. It's about making the punishment fit the crime. Nothing else.

We who live in a society have formed a social contract, that we will abide by a common set of principles and hold ourselves to a certain standard. Some people refuse to do this. They are criminals. When they violate the social contract, they must be punished. Otherwise, the contract is meaningless.

Beyond that, the punishment must fit the crime. The Oslo shooter shouldn't be given a fine, nor should a jay-walker receive the death penalty. The severity of the crime demands a certain degree of punishment. Some people have committed atrocities so heinous it's actually illegal to describe them aloud in some areas of the United States. Things like skinning their victims alive, or raping someone literally to death, and all sorts of incredibly vile things like that.

These people deserve nothing more than a slow, painful death. It's not about torture or personal satisfaction. It really doesn't matter if anyone knows about it or not. It all comes down to the fact that some people choose to violate others for their own sick and twisted ends, and they must be made accountable.

Edit: PS - I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and assume you've never had a friend or family member raped and/or murdered. Not sure if that's true, but it sure sounds like it.

PPS - You also assume that we're already "above" the terrorists or whatever other group you want to name. I can tell you right now that we're really not. Humanity as a whole has not changed much in the last 10,000 years. We're just as violent, mean and vicious now as we were when wooly rhinos walked the Earth.

 

[ShadowsofHope]

And that is what you do in a court room, not in a torture chamber. Justice is not flaying someone until you personally feel content with their suffering over your own, it is allowing a court of law and a judge to make an objective decision concerning due punishment without the rampaging emotions of any victims getting in the way of such a balanced decision. We are not ancient Rome, where we decide "justice" by tossing someone to the lions and forgetting about them - or enjoying their suffering in an audience from arena stands.

Torture only puts you on the level of the terrorists whom orchestrated 9/11, not above them. Every video you see of terrorists beheading someone after making a speech? Now look at Guantanamo Bay.

As I said, it's not about satisfying anyone. It's about making the punishment fit the crime. Nothing else.

We who live in a society have formed a social contract, that we will abide by a common set of principles and hold ourselves to a certain standard. Some people refuse to do this. They are criminals. When they violate the social contract, they must be punished. Otherwise, the contract is meaningless.

Beyond that, the punishment must fit the crime. The Oslo shooter shouldn't be given a fine, nor should a jay-walker receive the death penalty. The severity of the crime demands a certain degree of punishment. Some people have committed atrocities so heinous it's actually illegal to describe them aloud in some areas of the United States. Things like skinning their victims alive, or raping someone literally to death, and all sorts of incredibly vile things like that.

These people deserve nothing more than a slow, painful death. It's not about torture or personal satisfaction. It really doesn't matter if anyone knows about it or not. It all comes down to the fact that some people choose to violate others for their own sick and twisted ends, and they must be made accountable.

What they may deserve and what society considers ethical behavior from non-sociopathic individuals are two very different things. You don't punish a rapist by raping him/her in return, or punish a thief by stealing (cutting) their hands from their arms, after all. Murder is murder. If you murder someone, no matter how you did it, you are still either going to get a third degree murder charge, a second degree murder charge, or a first degree murder charge and subsequently put in prison for the rest of your life. There is no excuse for torturing them, the prison environment is dangerous enough for certain types of criminals (mainly child/women killers/rapists).

"When you let yourself become the monster in order to stop/punish a monster, you have already failed (simply became another "him/her")."

Edit:

Edit: PS - I'm gonna take a stab in the dark and assume you've never had a friend or family member raped and/or murdered. Not sure if that's true, but it sure sounds like it.

That honestly does not matter. We do not let the emotions of the victim determine the fate of the aggressor, we allow the court to make an objective stance upon an appropriate punishment. Whether or not I have personally experienced a death in the family due to murder, or have had a relative raped does not factor into anything save for being able to more suitably offer sympathy for the victim.

PPS - You also assume that we're already "above" the terrorists or whatever other group you want to name. I can tell you right now that we're really not. Humanity as a whole has not changed much in the last 10,000 years. We're just as violent, mean and vicious now as we were when wooly rhinos walked the Earth.

I am talking about the illusion of being "above" them, of course. I am well aware of the nature of humanity, but simply being a human does not excuse you from attempting to act like a civilized individual.

Also, if we go by such logic, then Iraq completely negated any sympathy anyone should have for the events of 9/11. After all, what the States did in Iraq was no less cold blooded murder (civilian deaths, Saddam) than 9/11 was, no?

 

[peruvianskys]

Where i live, nobody cares. We have much bigger problems. Hell, if it weren't for this thread i would have completely forgotten.

Politics and petty patriotism aside, I don't think there's a country on earth that wasn't hugely affected by 9/11. It was essentially the most important event of the last decade and the whole of human history from then to now hinges on it. You might not care about that day itself (I certainly don't), but its repercussions are definitely being felt all around the world, your country included. I guarantee it.

 

[Estelindis]

I cannot believe so many are offended by the idea that people would want to mourn the lost on the anniversary of their deaths.

I understand that some people feel Sept. 11th has gotten a disproportionate amount of attention compared to other acts of violence, but the suffering of one set of people doesn't deprive others of the right to mourn their own losses.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

Most people in Ecuador (and I assume the rest of Latin America) found it absolutely hilarious.
Yet its a national tragedy when they lose a soccer game.
Edit:

9/11...
seriously, americans?
GET OVER YOURSELVES, damnit!

hiroshima and nagasaki...
seriously, japanese?
GET OVER YOURSELVES, damnit!
the holocaust...
seriously, jews?
GET OVER YOURSELF, damnit!

 

[ScourgeOfHell]

Ok so im gonna go ahead and speak as a typical muslim "terrorist" or "vandal" or whatever cliche you've bestowed upon us these days. You know what I love about the US, their tendency to break rip a nations heart out for so much as scratching American national pride. The millions of civilians killed in America's 3 massive ***** fits are ofcourse totally ignored, oh no, what matters is that America's big Penis compensation was torn down, yeah that totally justifies 3 trillions dollars worth of war. People, get over it, its been a decade we get it, it was a bad thing to do, we pwomise never to do it again happy?

Jesus, man, calm down.

Americans in general don't think of Muslims that way. Only assholes/bigots do. And those exist in every country.

Also: Technically Al Qaeda started the war against them, and you can't seriously be defending the Taliban. I'm pretty sure RAMMING A FUCKING AIRLINER INTO A BUILDING IS AN ACT OF WAR. It's just as if some country launched a cruise missile into the WTC.

He's being a bit over the top, but the west started it. We've been almost literally raping their countries for centuries.

Ok fine I admit, I was groggy and sleepy when I wrote that so yeah, it came out a bit more sardonic than i intended. Any way, the country I live in is one thats continually being ravaged by terrorism. I'd sooner rip my leg off and club myself to death with it, than defend terrorism. Yes it's true, smashing an airplane into a national monument is an act of war, but the point I'm trying to make is that the US milks the 9/11 sympathy card way too much. People are continually dying, and it's weird for me to see the deaths of my countrymen reported everyday, their deaths forgotten in a few days, and at the same time hear about people still crying over 9/11

 

[mooncalf]

It was about 6 or 7 in the morning, my dad said to turn the TV on cos something bad had happened. Channel One news (New Zealand) covered events for a couple of days, in the early hours just showing the same footage over and over again, my sis was in New York but not in danger, she had quite a prime view of the devastation though. I remember that the news had chosen Samuel Barber's Adagio as a backing track to their coverage, but it was this obnoxiously awful midi version, felt cheap and nasty. I view the event as an inexcusable atrocity. The world has had many, and the US has caused some, but it's never okay, and I felt like sending out some Che Fu "Hold Tight" to US brothers and sisters.

 

[Aposthebest]

Most people in Ecuador (and I assume the rest of Latin America) found it absolutely hilarious.
Yet its a national tragedy when they lose a soccer game.
Edit:

9/11...
seriously, americans?
GET OVER YOURSELVES, damnit!

hiroshima and nagasaki...
seriously, japanese?
GET OVER YOURSELVES, damnit!
the holocaust...
seriously, jews?
GET OVER YOURSELF, damnit!

Seriously...you can't compare those two with the 9/11 incident...the casualties on 9/11 were minimal compared to most of the tragedies that have occured so far.

Americans really need to devaluate themselves,1 american does not equal 100 of any other nationality.

 

[ivarsa15]

It was at 6 in the afternoon, I was about to watch 'Bolibompa' (a swedish children's television series) but instead of poorly animated swedish dubs of international and national cartoons, I saw two burning towers.
I cried, I wanted to watch Bamse.