How long until this Pandemic ceases?

CriticalGaming

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The CDC link isn't really what I was referring to. I was referring to the Youtuber he linked a few posts back, who made several false claims; Russell Blaylock; and wherever he got the bit about scraping skulls from.

The CDC is fine. But it doesn't make the point Breitbart thinks it does, as Generals has outlined above. The study even includes a section in the 'Discussion' segment saying it's beneficial to wear masks.
I don't really understand the mask thing. I'm pretty okay with masks being required places, so long as those places can open up their doors for business. Like I know I've been pretty against the nonsense this pandemic has brought upon us, but I think the masks are like the least we could do.

If that could just be the trade off, I think we'd all be happier. Open everything up, but wear your mask. Seems fair enough to me.


Oh you know what. Let's add a second rule.

If you sick. STAY THE FUCK HOME!

Simple.
 
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Silvanus

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I don't really understand the mask thing. I'm pretty okay with masks being required places, so long as those places can open up their doors for business. Like I know I've been pretty against the nonsense this pandemic has brought upon us, but I think the masks are like the least we could do.

If that could just be the trade off, I think we'd all be happier. Open everything up, but wear your mask. Seems fair enough to me.


Oh you know what. Let's add a second rule.

If you sick. STAY THE FUCK HOME!

Simple.
If we could reliably know who was sick, that would indeed probably be enough. But since people remain asymptomatic for ~7 days, that reliability would require functional contact tracing & mass testing. And those are two things that quite a few countries (notable the UK and US, both infection hotspots) have comprehensively fucked up.

The necessity of more draconian restrictions is directly the result of the failure of those governments to take the smaller necessary steps earlier. Had they reacted with speed, transparency and investment, rather than denial and half-measures, the subsequent lockdowns wouldn't have needed to be as long or as extensive.
 
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ObsidianJones

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I don't really understand the mask thing. I'm pretty okay with masks being required places, so long as those places can open up their doors for business. Like I know I've been pretty against the nonsense this pandemic has brought upon us, but I think the masks are like the least we could do.

If that could just be the trade off, I think we'd all be happier. Open everything up, but wear your mask. Seems fair enough to me.


Oh you know what. Let's add a second rule.

If you sick. STAY THE FUCK HOME!

Simple.
Allow me to quote some neighbors I now have.

"The Masks are Killing People", "You need to go back to school and get educated", "You're interrupting God's perfect breathing system"

These are not my neighbors

"We have a right to be who we are", "We Make Smart Decisions and we avoid people we know to have it/have higher risks" (this before said person was going to attention an indoor Trump rally), "Wearing Mask is Sensationalist, and people only do it to appear to do the right thing", "I don't have any of the symptoms and neither do they" (She's speaking about the Trump Rally)

So, The Trump Administration has once again weaponized stupidity by branding it "Patriotism". That's why you don't understand it. You haven't bought into it and are actually getting information from Scientists, not Loyalists.
 
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CriticalGaming

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But since people remain asymptomatic for ~7 days, that reliability would require functional contact tracing & mass testing.
I haven't read much on this, but how have they determined that people have the virus a full week before the virus provides any symptoms? On top of that, the people that "have" covid but never actually get sick. I don't know much about virology but I don't know how a virus transmits from a host that cannot be affected by it in the first place.

I had doubts about asymptomatic people in regards to this from the start, due to the high likelihood off false-positives being a thing. Especially early on when the test came out really quickly which made it hard to believe it could be 100% accurate, and i don't even think it's 100% now.

Couldn't asymptomatic folks simply be false-positives?

Not saying that there aren't people who have it and never know they have it, just how do you handle something that you have no clue you could have for over a week, meanwhile you are spreading it? Oh wait......everyone wearing a mask would probably do it.

Even still, the virus being crazy transmittable doesn't seem too likely to be contained. Even after lockdowns the second things opened it blew up again (supposedly), but if everyone was locked down then should the virus have been dead within all these people? Unless even after you recover you can still pass this thing along?

I just feel like there are too many questions, and the daily numbers don't seem possible to accurately reflect the truth. Especially since the political side and the media benefit too much from the doom and gloom of it all. Yet as was said before, the median age of death for this shit is 80, yet we are destroying the lives of young people everywhere for something that really hasn't shown itself to be dangerous to the vast vast vast majority of people. I say young people but I'm talking mostly 25-55 year old non-retired folks.

Though there has been evidence of this harming children, thanks to the closing of schools and the forcing of online classes. There are many children who needed school lunches to eat during the day, and parents who are being forced to leave a kid home alone so they can go to work.

What saddens me, is that nobody is looking at the consequences of lockdowns in proportion to the numbers the virus is actually putting out. All people see is what the news wants to show them and the news wants the numbers to sound as scary as possible. They always use words like "More than" and "over" when reflecting the numbers, which leaves your ignorant person going "Well how much over? How much more?" And then panicking because of it.
 

CriticalGaming

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Allow me to quote some neighbors I now have.

"The Masks are Killing People", "You need to go back to school and get educated", "You're interrupting God's perfect breathing system"

These are not my neighbors

"We have a right to be who we are", "We Make Smart Decisions and we avoid people we know to have it/have higher risks" (this before said person was going to attention an indoor Trump rally), "Wearing Mask is Sensationalist, and people only do it to appear to do the right thing", "I don't have any of the symptoms and neither do they" (She's speaking about the Trump Rally)

So, The Trump Administration has once again weaponized stupidity by branding it "Patriotism". That's why you don't understand it. You haven't bought into it and are actually getting information from Scientists, not Loyalists.

I always knew the "Karens" would get us all killed.
 

ObsidianJones

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I always knew the "Karens" would get us all killed.
They got tired of all these simple Human Managers that we were supplying to speak with them, and they decided to Nix the whole Race so they can complain to the Overall Manager in Charge.
 
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Silvanus

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I haven't read much on this, but how have they determined that people have the virus a full week before the virus provides any symptoms?
Early on, there were several "cluster" incidents (such as the one at the nursing facility in Washington), following which people who had been present only reported showing symptoms seven days later.

I mean, that was what tipped doctors off in the first place. Since it was first suggested, it's been proven by extensive testing of asymptomatic people shortly after they've come into contact with symptomatic people. They get tested as a result of contact-tracing; they return positive despite lacking outward symptoms; later, the symptoms emerge.

On top of that, the people that "have" covid but never actually get sick. I don't know much about virology but I don't know how a virus transmits from a host that cannot be affected by it in the first place.
Asymptomatic people still act as carriers. There can still be an infectious viral load in their saliva, or borne on their breath. Though, yes, the risk is lower if they're not coughing, because the water droplets aren't being projected, but water droplets from regular breathing can still hang on the air for long enough.

I had doubts about asymptomatic people in regards to this from the start, due to the high likelihood off false-positives being a thing. Especially early on when the test came out really quickly which made it hard to believe it could be 100% accurate, and i don't even think it's 100% now.

Couldn't asymptomatic folks simply be false-positives?
Firstly, false negatives are actually much more common than false positives. We've had several of those "speedy" tests in the UK turn out to be unable to detect the viral load from somebody who's actually infected.

But, in short, no. There may be a few false positives from the DIY tests, but asymptomatic people have been testing positive even in tests delivered in sterile conditions by professionals.

Not saying that there aren't people who have it and never know they have it, just how do you handle something that you have no clue you could have for over a week, meanwhile you are spreading it? Oh wait......everyone wearing a mask would probably do it.
Contact-tracing and mass testing would be more reliable. Then, those who are negative can still go out, and needn't waste 14 days inside.

Even still, the virus being crazy transmittable doesn't seem too likely to be contained. Even after lockdowns the second things opened it blew up again (supposedly), but if everyone was locked down then should the virus have been dead within all these people? Unless even after you recover you can still pass this thing along?
This is why transmission lowered so much during lockdown. It worked. But a few months of lockdown, long after the virus has already had time to become widespread and embedded in communities around the world, was never going to entirely destroy it.

If a lockdown was implemented before widespread transmission, and enforced, then yes, it can essentially defeat the virus. New Zealand acted straight away and has seen something like 30 deaths overall. As a result, they don't need to pursue the endless draconian measures we're seeing elsewhere.
 

CriticalGaming

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They got tired of all these simple Human Managers that we were supplying to speak with them, and they decided to Nix the whole Race so they can complain to the Overall Manager in Charge.
I think the fundatmental problem falls on the shoulders of our politicians. They preach lockdowns and masks and all that shit, but they don't follow those guidelines themselves. So already you have people who think this is all way overblown (myself included), and then you top it off with the people making the rules not following or giving a shit about them themselves.

Fauci at the baseball game.
Pelosi maskless at the hairdresser
Gov. Newsom going to a party and keeping his wineries open throughout the hardcore lockdowns.

If the politicians aren't taking this seriously, why should the regular folks. Especially since the politicians are all in the age group that would DIE from this thing.

Trump might be a fucking dipshit, but he isn't the idiot people like to think he is. If his advisors told him that this was going to really FUCK people up, like a lot of people, then he would have likely enforced more restrictions. Instead he did the political thing and let the individual districts handle it however they deemed fit so that when they fucked it up (as they did) then he could use it as a platform to get re-elected. He himself got it, and beat it in 3 days (regardless of his medical care the dude lives of Fried chicken and McDonalds), and i think he did it to show people that most of us have nothing to fear from it.

I don't think you can protect people from a flu or cold like this. I don't think shutdowns in a country like ours work because at the end of the day we are too big to enforce and the people can't do shit about it.

In other countries, were the cops can fucking shoot your ass for disobedience, a lockdown works. China did it, they locked up, until it was mostly safe again and nobody breaks the law in China just because they don't think the law is very nice. It also worked in Greenland which is a country of tiny villages, and small economic ecosystems in which a lockdown doesn't have a big effect and all 37 people in your fishing village can follow the order without drama.

And Japan had success because they wear masks anyway. It's fashionable and popular to wear a mask in Japan, so really nothing changed for them. But they also have a culture of obedience, honor, and politeness. When the government issues an order, they people will follow it because nobody wants to be the guy who disrespects everyone else.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I might be wrong, but I was under the impression that the problem was not somebody eating an unusual variety of meat like a bat, but rather that these markets full of live animals are just too animals and too many different species all concentrated into one area. On a huge scale to cater for huge chinese populations.

Agriculture always can concentrate much more resources and thus life of one or few species in an area than a natural system usually can, creating monocultures that let pests and diseases thrive on an abundance of their hosts. Giving a virus an unnaturally potent breeding ground between all the animals of it's host species and with all that breeding comes the chance to gain a new potential host species with mutation and then with so many different species together that new host is available. So rather than the actual eating of bats, it's the concentration of live bats and all sorts of other animals tightly together to cater for millions or even billions of people.

The USA only has 300 something million people. I doubt their rural areas can compare in scale of concentrated animals to Chinese markets feeding their big cities.

But I don't know really. I've never been to China and I don't understand virus science so well.

On topic: I think I heard some company say they hope to have just a billion vaccines by the end of 2021? can't remember exactly but It's a long way to this being over in the world, though cynically I know first world countries will get first dibs and be vaccinated sooner there's a loooong path to a world with Covid-19 immunity even with vaccines. You can't just shit out 7 billion vaccines in a month after scientists are finally confident to say it's safe to use their vaccine.
Cross species infection are rare but happens all the time, those open air markets don't help, but you can catch something like this from a squirrel scratching you. Its a numbers game, usually when something like this does happen, a few people die and it just goes away, either not being contagious enough to spread further or mutating into something benign or that our bodies can wipe out quick. What makes covid so dangerous is how easily it spreads, especially before people really feel sick.
 

Kwak

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America is doomed until these maniacs are forceably restrained.

....

As coronavirus cases spike in Michigan at an alarming rate, state officials announced a new emergency order sharply limiting indoor gatherings for three weeks.

Then a top Trump administration coronavirus adviser urged the state's residents to "rise up" against such measures, prompting the governor to respond that she is "not going to be bullied."

White House coronavirus adviser Dr. Scott Atlas tweeted Sunday, "The only way this stops is if people rise up. You get what you accept."

 

Secondhand Revenant

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America is doomed until these maniacs are forceably restrained.

....

As coronavirus cases spike in Michigan at an alarming rate, state officials announced a new emergency order sharply limiting indoor gatherings for three weeks.

Then a top Trump administration coronavirus adviser urged the state's residents to "rise up" against such measures, prompting the governor to respond that she is "not going to be bullied."

White House coronavirus adviser Dr. Scott Atlas tweeted Sunday, "The only way this stops is if people rise up. You get what you accept."

Saw that and I'm like where the fuck does a coronavirus advisor get off making that sort of advice
 

ObsidianJones

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I think the fundatmental problem falls on the shoulders of our politicians. They preach lockdowns and masks and all that shit, but they don't follow those guidelines themselves. So already you have people who think this is all way overblown (myself included), and then you top it off with the people making the rules not following or giving a shit about them themselves.

Fauci at the baseball game.
Pelosi maskless at the hairdresser
Gov. Newsom going to a party and keeping his wineries open throughout the hardcore lockdowns.

If the politicians aren't taking this seriously, why should the regular folks. Especially since the politicians are all in the age group that would DIE from this thing.

Trump might be a fucking dipshit, but he isn't the idiot people like to think he is. If his advisors told him that this was going to really FUCK people up, like a lot of people, then he would have likely enforced more restrictions. Instead he did the political thing and let the individual districts handle it however they deemed fit so that when they fucked it up (as they did) then he could use it as a platform to get re-elected. He himself got it, and beat it in 3 days (regardless of his medical care the dude lives of Fried chicken and McDonalds), and i think he did it to show people that most of us have nothing to fear from it.

I don't think you can protect people from a flu or cold like this. I don't think shutdowns in a country like ours work because at the end of the day we are too big to enforce and the people can't do shit about it.

In other countries, were the cops can fucking shoot your ass for disobedience, a lockdown works. China did it, they locked up, until it was mostly safe again and nobody breaks the law in China just because they don't think the law is very nice. It also worked in Greenland which is a country of tiny villages, and small economic ecosystems in which a lockdown doesn't have a big effect and all 37 people in your fishing village can follow the order without drama.

And Japan had success because they wear masks anyway. It's fashionable and popular to wear a mask in Japan, so really nothing changed for them. But they also have a culture of obedience, honor, and politeness. When the government issues an order, they people will follow it because nobody wants to be the guy who disrespects everyone else.
Perhaps you don't remember Trump's hiring/firing policy.

You're hired as long as you say what Trump wants to hear.

You're fired if you speak out of the Trump's policy.


Rick Bright claims he was fired for not backing hydroxychloroquine.


Trump cut down the size of the National Security Staff, including members who deal with pandemics.

But not to mention how Trump has framed this Virus to the American People while doing everything in his power to control the actual dialog of the virus.


Trump orders hospitals to report to him and not the CDC.


After Trump's mandate to shift control of the CDC's information about the Coronavirus, previously public information about the virus was "removed"


Trump often says Covid is like the Flu.


Trump decided to halt funding to the WHO because of how they bungled Covid.

And once again, Trump knew how bad it was way before he said all of this stuff. Bob Woodward supplied us with the tapes that he at least knew it was 'deadly stuff' in Feburary.


Without question, everyone should be doing their part. Pelosi, Fauci, and others should be better examples. Hundred percent agree. But Only one of them actually are the leader of the free world, and that was Trump. He had the information. He lied. He manipulated markets. He pushed drugs that had no scientific basis in reality and a handful of people died because of that. He made the information get so muddied that people who could die from it just got too tired of sorting it out.

Look at it this way. I do not blame the orderly who brought the virus into my mother's facility that took her life in April. He didn't have the facts and he followed what little protocol there was. But who took the reigns and commanded the protocol, the need for testing, and the information available to all of us?
 

gorfias

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This is a difference of priorities [that the median age of death from Covid is 80, and that the lives of young people matter many, many times more than those of 80 year olds] that you have with the scientists, politicians, and-- frankly-- with the majority of people. It is not a "lie" if you disagree with the approach being taken.
I think this "pandemic" has been sold as something deadly and an actual threat to the modern world. Are you agreeing that the median age of death is 80? Was it so sold? Does anyone believe if every 80 year old on Earth dropped dead tomorrow, and I don't want that but, arguendo, would that have a society ending impact upon us? 1) Yes, it has been so sold as a society killer, 2) it is not deadly to our society in this manner 3) pretending it is is a lie.

To fuck with people. I'm convinced that the government wants this shit to stick around as long as possible.
I don't doubt the most powerful people in the world are terrified of plebes... people out there starting families and businesses without them having total control over them. With COVID, you have people hiding in their homes. Starting a new small business is much harder and maybe even foolish. Of course such people must adore this and never want it to end.
 

Kwak

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I don't doubt the most powerful people in the world are terrified of plebes... people out there starting families and businesses without them having total control over them. With COVID, you have people hiding in their homes. Starting a new small business is much harder and maybe even foolish. Of course such people must adore this and never want it to end.
This sounds like some delusional libertarian persecution fantasy.
 

CriticalGaming

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Trump often says Covid is like the Flu.
I mean people have been shitting on Trump since the moment he starting running for office. The media and the extreme left have had a hate boner for him since moment 1. Sure he lies, name me one honest politician and I'll show you a liar who hasn't been caught yet.

Covid IS like the flu, it produces flu-like symptoms in most people affected. Doctor's were using the flu as an example to describe Covid. While obviously there is more to Covid than the normal flu, it doesn't make Trump repeating what doctors are saying wrong.

I think people give Trump too much shit. They blame him for not reacting fast enough, yet ignore the fact that every other polticial party possible has fought him every step of the way for everything he wanted to do. Trump wants to help people and send out more stimulus payments, they fight him because they would rather kill people than see the American people get help with Trump's name on it. It's fine to hate the guy if you want, but you can't rest the blame entirely on him, because EVERYONE has been against him for EVERYTHING he has tried to get done in office. Every media outlet paints him as a satanic dictator, yet provides no evidence on what makes him such a dastardly being.

I'm not a Trump supporter, I hate every politician equally, but I think he has tried to do his best despite everyone and everything working as hard as possible against him for no legitimate reason other than not being able to CONTROL him.
 
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Mister Mumbler

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I'm not a Trump supporter, I hate every politician equally, but I think he has tried to do his best despite everyone and everything working as hard as possible against him for no legitimate reason other than not being able to CONTROL him.
February 7th, 2020:
February 27th, 2020:
 

ObsidianJones

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I mean people have been shitting on Trump since the moment he starting running for office. The media and the extreme left have had a hate boner for him since moment 1. Sure he lies, name me one honest politician and I'll show you a liar who hasn't been caught yet.

Covid IS like the flu, it produces flu-like symptoms in most people affected. Doctor's were using the flu as an example to describe Covid. While obviously there is more to Covid than the normal flu, it doesn't make Trump repeating what doctors are saying wrong.

I think people give Trump too much shit. They blame him for not reacting fast enough, yet ignore the fact that every other polticial party possible has fought him every step of the way for everything he wanted to do. Trump wants to help people and send out more stimulus payments, they fight him because they would rather kill people than see the American people get help with Trump's name on it. It's fine to hate the guy if you want, but you can't rest the blame entirely on him, because EVERYONE has been against him for EVERYTHING he has tried to get done in office. Every media outlet paints him as a satanic dictator, yet provides no evidence on what makes him such a dastardly being.

I'm not a Trump supporter, I hate every politician equally, but I think he has tried to do his best despite everyone and everything working as hard as possible against him for no legitimate reason other than not being able to CONTROL him.
So, I literally just put up where he has ignored his own officials because they said the science doesn't agree with what Trump kept saying. So I won't even add where Science has also said comparing it to the Flu is harmful and false.

I'll just add where Trump himself said it is not like the flu after it started to get out of control.

But think of what would have happened if we didn’t do anything. I mean, I’ve had many friends, business people, people with great, actually, common sense — they said, “Why don’t we ride it out?” A lot of people have said. A lot of people have thought about it. “Ride it out. Don’t do anything, just ride it out and think of it as the flu.” But it’s not the flu. It’s vicious.

When you send a friend to the hospital, and you call up to find out how is he doing — it happened to me, where he goes to the hospital, he says goodbye. He’s sort of a tough guy. A little older, a little heavier than he’d like to be, frankly. And you call up the next day: “How’s he doing?” And he’s in a coma? This is not the flu.
 

happyninja42

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I think the fundatmental problem falls on the shoulders of our politicians. They preach lockdowns and masks and all that shit, but they don't follow those guidelines themselves. So already you have people who think this is all way overblown (myself included), and then you top it off with the people making the rules not following or giving a shit about them themselves.
It's not just politicians, but religious idiots are doing it too. Making ridiculous claims about god protecting them (and then them dying from covid later, I fucking LOVE it when I hear those stories.), declaring their churches as an "essential" service and other crap to try and get around the rules about not gathering in large numbers (and then oh look, massive infection points turn out to be religious congregations, imagine that). Idiots like kenneth copeland who has declared that he's rebuked covid and killed it with the breath of god, like that just makes viral plagues vanish. And then the millions of people who literally worship these people and their doctrines, run around "just leaving it up to geezus" because they can't be arsed to take precautions.