How Many of Your Favourite Films Pass "the Bechdel Test"?

[Therumancer]

What a stupid test.

Yes, films aimed at men are going to be about a man, probably, unless we're talking porno. But hey, I guess we should start shoehorning women into movies like Das Boot, American Phsycho or Amadeus, even though it would make all 3 worse.

But if only maybe 10% of films pass this test, then that implies that only about 10% of films are made with any kind of realistic female character. You don't see that as a problem?

No I don't, because the test is intentionally loaded. In general movies have limited time to get to a specific point. If the leading character(s) are male and the story revolves around them, and the entire thing is based around that plotline, it only makes sense that scenes involving the female characters are going to revolve around the plot and that guy.

To be honest this tends to be more "realistic" as far as such things go, as say stopping an action-science fiction movie so a couple of girls can engage in girl-talk about shopping or something irrelevent is kind of misogynistic when you get down to it.

You can flip this test around just as easily by taking movies with female leads and then asking how much time men are given to be involved with things that somehow don't involve that female lead and her problems (you know, the plot), and try and claim it's misandry.

By the logic of this, technically you'd probably be saying that horror movies are the most enlightened thing out there, because oddly as a genere they will usually have a couple of girls sneaking off to smoke pot, vandalize the school, or engaged in cat fights that might not have anything to do with a guy in paticular (preppy girl vs. bad girl).

That said it's a little more balanced to simply say that there are fewer movies that revolve around women. Of course that's to be expected given the amount of time the cinema has existed compared to the modern take on liberalism.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

This is precisely about science. Social science, but science nonetheless.

*crushes urge to make a joke at the expense of social "science"*

(Sorry. I did engineering at university. Old habits die hard.)

I'm getting the strong impression you're far better read on this area than me, so I'll just abandon conversation here if you don't mind.

Social science certainly gives people a lot of reasons to make fun of it. I'm especially critical of social science which fails to be scientific because of that. Sorry if I came off as being too harsh.

Are you a Social Sciences student/graduate yourself?

And no worries.

I'm a linguist, so I do some similar work and I usually get lumped into the same category. Plus, studying languages meant taking classes in the associated film, literature and culture as well.

 

[Seneschal]

I don't think Princess Mononoke passes. It's been a long time since I've seen it so I might be forgetting something. But from what I remember in it, there are a lot of women in it who are depicted as strong and capable, but they mostly talk about how useless the men are.

I haven't seen it in a while either but I believe in Princess Mononoke, the two female leads were always yelling at each other about the environment and war, so technically that's something that isn't necessarily a man, although a man was the main character, I think they had a tendency to ignore him when they were too busy fighting.

Also, Moro the wolf goddess is female, and she talks to her "daughter." In the Japanese dub, she talks in a male voice (though a bit androgynous) because wolves are supposed to be regal creatures in shinto animism that always speak in authoritative male voices. However, she is most definitely female (voiced by Gillian Anderson in the English dub).

Among my top films, only Alien, Zombieland and Shaun of the Dead pass.

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

But if only maybe 10% of films pass this test, then that implies that only about 10% of films are made with any kind of realistic female character. You don't see that as a problem?

The test doesnt even slightly indicated that. Why cant a woman be a properly developed character talking to men? You could have 5 women who are all fantastic characters who NEVER speak to eachother and are characterised wonderfully.

Case and point:

Twilight: Passes
High school msuical: Passes
Sucker punch: Passes

So it doesnt indicate anything at all really. Women can talk to eachother with names and be shallow boob monsters there for only sex appeal. Or they can be totally worthless characters. Its completely about context. Almost entirely.

That said:

Serenity: Passes

Scott Pilgrim: Passes? Im pretty sure it does (its about relationships anyway, the dudes might fail the test here too since they never talk about anything but girls)

The blues brothers: Fails

Zombie Land: Passes

28 Days Later: Passes

Full Metal Jacket: Fails

Saving Private Ryan: Fails (both of the above are for legitimate reasons: No women in front line infantry, realistic)

 

[orangeban]

Hmm, The Truman Show? No. Let The Right One In, hmm, I don't think so, even if we ignore the ambiguity over Eli. Timecrimes? No. What else? Shutter Island? Not that I can remember.

Can't remember any other films.

 

[drisky]

1) To pass, the film must have more than two female characters that have names (Okay, having them be named is kinda important, though even then you could POSSIBLY make a film where names are never mentions, but that's beside the point. You need to have TWO females. Um, why? Can we not have ONE female that's a realistic and positive character? Is a female discussing Plato with a male worth so much less than her having the same conversation with a female?)

2) These two female characters must talk to each other (Even if we ignore my first problem of WHY do we need two females, we still have why do they need to talk to each other? A story can be told about two sets of people who never meet personally but affect each other's lives, is the story somehow less feminist because the women never met?)

3) They must talk to each other about something other than a man/men (So two women discussing (Oh, so two women CAN'T discuss Plato, because that's discussing MEN! So the works of men are totally off-limits because MEN did them, and of course MEN are never allowed to be discussed by good female characters. Well, there goes most of history, science, philosophy, and hell, most of mythology too. I'm not saying its great that history is so centred on men, but sadly it IS, so saying they can't talk about men implies that a LOT of topics are off-limits.)

This "test" doesn't so much show that the director made positive or realistic, as that the director was able to have two ninnies blather about make-up for a minute before cutting back to the men, which is exactly what we should be AVOIDING. Not only that, but amazing works can easily fail this test, and terrible works can easily pass, its not a test on the merits of the storytelling, narrative, characters, or anything important, but whether the writer wrote in "Cut to Character A talking to Character B about her favourite brand of lipstick"

Some of my favourite movies:
Lawrence of Arabia: Fails
Toy Story: Fails
Back to the Future: Fails (I think, its been a while)
Clerks: Fails (I think, again, been a while)
Lord of the Rings Trilogy: Fails

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this isn't to say that there are enough good female characters in movies, just that this test is woefully ill-equipped to do... Anything at all to solve the problem.

The Bechdel test isn't about good characters or good movies, its about having a female perspective. Not only that but movies can be very feminist without passing. The real issue is when you take the movie land scape as a whole rather then individual movies. The female to male ratio for possible jobs for actors is way off, something like 30-70. An overwhelming number of movies is a male dominated cast with a male protagonist. The test helps to point out this issue in an intentionally funny way. The real solution is having more female centered stories not trying to fit these rules, it points out the problem rather then giving parameters to fix it. When you think about the test, you think about the core issues that cause the test. I think a lot of people have been missing that point and getting into an unnecessary huff.

 

[darkfox85]

You need to have TWO females. Um, why? ... [and] why do they need to talk to each other?

Representation

Can we not have ONE female that's a realistic and positive character? Is a female discussing Plato with a male worth so much less than her having the same conversation with a female? ... [and] is the story somehow less feminist because the women never met? ... MEN are never allowed to be discussed by good female characters... This "test" doesn't so much show that the director made positive or realistic [characters]

The test isn?t about good female characters or feminism. That?s another debate. It?s about general representation, which is much broader and easier to demonstrate and identify to people than quality characters or feminism.

Oh, so two women CAN'T discuss Plato, because that's discussing MEN!

I will allow the two named female characters to discuss real-world men of status. I can?t think of a single film that shifts the test from fail to pass thanks to this concession. Can you give me an example?

its not a test on the merits of the storytelling, narrative, characters, or anything important,

No. It?s not. But is representation not important?

this test is woefully ill-equipped to do... Anything at all to solve the problem.

It collects data and presents it. I wonder what conclusions we can draw from it. Do you think there?s *something* to learn?

 

[yourbeliefs]

Let me think (I haven't seen all these movies in a while)...

Pulp Fiction: Yes (barely)
Fight Club: No
South Park: Probably not
M*A*S*H: Not sure if there are even 2 female characters with names in it..
Star Wars: Don't think so
Dumb & Dumber: Close but no
First Blood: No
Terminator 2: Ehhh.. need to review, but if I had to guess I'd say no
Cannibal! The Musical: Hell no
Dogma: YES!!

Interesting test.

 

[8bitlove2a03]

The first three Star Wars? Nope.
House II? Yes (barely).
Fulltime Killer? Not that I recall.
Donnie Darko? Yes, but barely.
Twelve Angry Men? Fuck, that fails all of the criteria I think.
V for Vendetta? Nope.
Fight Club? Nope.
Kung Fu Hustle? Nope.


Well crap.

 

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

I love how every time the Bechdel Test is mentioned, you get a handful of people saying "I don't want to watch some dumbass boring movie about women gossiping with each other and talking about makeup!" as though that's the only other possible option.

Anyway, I did this a while back and ended up with 10 passes (mostly Miyazaki and Disney), 15 fails (mostly Nolan, Kurosawa, and the Coen brothers), and a number of "not sures" because I couldn't remember. Most of them have been mentioned here already.

Also,

Lets make this interesting, by Pitting four animation houses against each other!, and finding who has the best percentage!

I may need some help here:

For the ones you left blank: Tangled passes. It's also excellent.

Pixar movies have always been male-interest-centric (cars, action figures, robots, etc.), up until Brave (which was released last Friday) which was about a princess. Brave is also the only one of their films I can think of that passes the Bechdel Test. It's interesting. It's also one of their weakest films, which made me very sad; its weakness as a film had nothing to do with its subject matter or choice of protagonist, just with half-hearted writing. Still worth watching, though.

Studio Ghibli movies, on the other hand, are almost completely gender-neutral in terms of focus (there's nothing inherently masculine or feminine about the subject matter of any of them), but the vast majority of them not only have female protagonists but also pass the Bechdel Test.

Oh look! It's possible for films to represent women in a reasonable way, while still being entertaining, well-made, and enjoyable by a diverse audience!

 

[IamQ]

Clerks 2: No, no no no no no.

Spirited Away: Yes, but at the same time, she's 10, how would it not pass the test?

Smokin' Aces: Yes, sorta? They talk about the mission first, then one of them gives a speech about sexism, and then the other goes away with a man holding her in her arms. It's a bit 30/70 here.

Casino Royale: It's a bond film, what do you expect?

 

[Chairman Miaow]

This is a very silly test. A lot of great movies wouldn't make sense having prominent female characters. Reservoir dogs for example. Anyhoo.

Pulp fiction fails.
Kill bill vol. 1 passes, as does 2 if I remember rightly.
Alien passes.
Aliens passes.
Alien 3 fails.
Alien resurrection doesn't exist and never has or will.
The Thing fails.
Se7en fails.
Lucky Number Slevin fails.

 

[Frozengale]

EDIT- Nevermind, it fails.

 

[Spider RedNight]

But I make it such a habit to watch movies that have as few females as possible for those exact reasons and then some. xD Female characters are often portrayed poorly in the media because I guess they're not as easy to write for or something.

In any case, I don't think I can think of any favourite movies of mine that actually passes this test. xD

 

[Lt._nefarious]

My top 10 and if they pass.

Splice - Um... Yes?
Black Swan - Defo...
Scarface - No
The Shining - No
Alien - Yes
Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford - I believe not...
Die Hard - No
Fight Club - No
Girl with the Dragon Tattoo - I don't think so...
Ferris Buellers (or however you spell that) Day Off - Er... Maybe? Kinda...

 

[Luca72]

Wow. As soon as I read the description of the test I thought I had this one in the bag. I just realized though that a handful of my favorite movies barely even have women at all - Fight Club (even though a woman was the catalyst, she's usually in the background), Snatch (NO women), and Lawrence of Arabia (even fewer women, Reservoir Dogs.

Alien passes.

28 Days Later passes.

The Departed fails.

Blade Runner fails.

Goodfellas passes.

2001: A Space Odyssey might pass, since several women discuss what's happening on the moon and I think they were all introduced. I think 2001 is exempt from this test though since it had like 12 lines of dialogue.

Prometheus passes! Not exactly a favorite film, but I enjoyed it.

Pitch Black passes.

Something I've noticed is in dramatic films that deal with life-and-death (which tend to be male-dominated, or at least my favorites are male-dominated) there is usually a central female character but she usually isn't written well. The scenes with her don't feel as important as the rest of the film, and she seems to have been added on. I'm sure most of these screenplays are written by men, and it doesn't feel like the writers even consider the character to be important.

On the other hand, science fiction has a way of equalizing everything. Filmmakers tend to assume that gender roles will be much more gray in the future, so you see women in the military, as pilots, as heads of state, etc. Also, with sci-fi thrillers (Aliens, Pitch Black) women are usually involved in the same dramatic conflict as men, and act just as capably. I don't know where this idea is coming from that female characters are just there to talk about shoes. Put 3 women and 3 men in a room with an alien, and gender roles will vaporize.