How much would you pay for better games journalism?

Pogilrup

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A large amount of gaming news sites rely on advertising revenue. This means they don't have to set up a paywall that restrict its content.

But this also means that they are susceptible to being manipulated by publishers.

So in the light of recent events, what subscription price would you pay every month if it means getting having a better unbiased news source?
 

tippy2k2

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I wouldn't because it's not possible.

Seriously, it's not...like....at all.

This topic has now come up a few times in a few forms so I'm just going to copy/paste my response from "Why do people think game journalists are corrupt" for it's basically the same thread being asked in a different way.

tippy2k2 said:
Let me start this off by saying that I don't believe game journalism is corrupt. Taking a stack of cash for a good review on a website doesn't make sense for either the Publisher (bribing everyone is going to get expensive) or the Reviewer (credibility will sink your site and you'd have to find a Publisher willing to play ball; see 3 words earlier).

With that said, I can see why people might think it and it is indirectly a problem.

Game Journalists get a LOT of free shit. Like....a LOT a lot of free shit. The games are free from the Publisher. They get flown out to "special events" where they get more free shit. Publisher PR crews send out free shit to journalists.

Along with that, the Publishers have all of the power in this relationship (It's similar to the movie theaters and the movie makers relationship). While a Reviewer could go independent and buy all their own stuff to be free of the "bribery-looking relationship" described above, most sites would die if that cut-off occurred. Also, unlike the normal press, the Publishers have no real "freedom of information" or anything like that. They tell you what they want to tell you and that's about it. Sometimes things get leaked but overall, the Publishers control the information while the Reviewers report it.

There is no direct bribery going on (or I'd like to think it's incredibly rare that you get a "Kane & Lynch" fiasco) but I can see why it begins to look shady to some people when the two parties are nuzzled so close to one another.
The really important stuff for my answer has been underlined for your convenience
 

tippy2k2

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Pogilrup said:
Well in that case perhaps we might need some legislation.
Legislation? Legislation for what? You're going to have to be a bit more clear on what you are asking for here...
 

Fiz_The_Toaster

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That's not possible and I wouldn't.

Anyone could present something in the most objective way ever and be an emotionless robot about it and someone will still cry biased because they found something somewhere that contradicts what the article says in some manner.

And no, I really don't think having a "legislation" about it will do anything, and if anything it will probably make things worse.

Also, everything that tippy said.
 

tippy2k2

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Pogilrup said:
tippy2k2 said:
Pogilrup said:
Well in that case perhaps we might need some legislation.
Legislation? Legislation for what? You're going to have to be a bit more clear on what you are asking for here...
Freedom of information.
Alright, that's what I thought you meant but I wanted to be sure I knew what you actually meant before I squish it.

These are video games. I want everyone to say that with me now: "Video Games".

This isn't government corruption. This isn't people getting abducted by a secret police force. This isn't mass genocide. This isn't people being forced into prison without trials.

These are entertainment products being made by private companies. They can release as much (or as little) information about their products as they want. There is no legislation that you could implement that wouldn't have way way waaaay worse complications.
 

shrekfan246

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Pogilrup said:
But this also means that they are susceptible to being manipulated by publishers.
They're not, really. It's actually been quite well-documented that publishers like EA tend to not really give a single care about what The Escapist or Destructoid has to say about their games, while the indie developers and individuals at a studio are the ones who take offense to being criticized or not receiving specific review scores.

I mean, there are a ton of problems with games journalism aside from that, not least of all being things such as NDAs which don't go up until after a game has been released, but I'll be honest when I say that I'm not particularly worried about any of the reviewers I follow being "manipulated". And even if they were, what's the worst thing that could possibly happen to me? I spend a bit of money on a game I end up not really liking that much? Oh no, stop the presses.
 

MysticSlayer

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I wouldn't pay anything. I can go to plenty of respectable news sites and not pay a thing to read what they have. Why should I have to pay to read a game journalist site?

Besides, there's still no real evidence of widespread corruption. People like pointing to the Kane & Lynch fiasco or some review score of two games on IGN, but those seem to be isolated incidents, and that's assuming that they all were actually due to corruption. The occasional wide difference in review scores on Metacritic also isn't evidence of widespread corruption in game reviews, as it not only rarely gets as bad as games like Rome II, but it also could be more of a problem with the gaming community than the critics (e.g. Call of Duty).
 

Pogilrup

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Look there was a screenshot of how various gaming news sites got a 15 out of 100 in their evaluation to become Reuters quality.

Of the reasons cited for the low score is, as I will paraphrase: having economic ties to the industry.
 

shrekfan246

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Pogilrup said:
Look there was a screenshot of how various gaming news sites got a 15 out of 100 in their evaluation to become Reuters quality.

Of the reasons cited for the low score is, as I will paraphrase: having economic ties to the industry.
It really shouldn't come as a surprise to anybody that games journalism is a far cry from being able to stand up to regular journalism.

But until people can definitively prove that big publishers have been throwing out the dolla dolla bills in exchange for good reviews, I'm going to keep on keeping on enjoying this hobby just as I always have. In fact, even if it does come out that publishers have been throwing around big bags with $$$ signs on the sides, I'm a cautious enough buyer that I'll have watched multiple gameplay videos (actual gameplay, not promotional material) if I'm on the fence about a product.
 

Fiz_The_Toaster

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Pogilrup said:
Look there was a screenshot of how various gaming news sites got a 15 out of 100 in their evaluation to become Reuters quality.

Of the reasons cited for the low score is, as I will paraphrase: having economic ties to the industry.
Comparing video game journalism to Reuters is not a fair comparison, like at all. Especially since Reuters is self sustaining because of how long they're been around, and is also a multi-national company, so money to keep things running really isn't an issue.

Video game journalism? Pick a site and find out how long they've been around, and you will notice that they need advertising on their site to keep the lights on. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. What would come as a surprise is IF reviewers and various reviewers decide, individual because they aren't a hive mind, to pocket the money and write whatever.

Wanna know what would happen if the reporting came back as a payoff? They wouldn't be working there anymore and it would ruin the site's reputation. Thus losing readership and all that sweet sweet ad money would go away. If any website did that kind of corruption it would be suicide.

Also, video game journalism is vastly different from "regular" journalism. The worst that could happen with shitty game journalism is you buy a shitty game. That's all.
 

Pogilrup

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Well it is such a shame that no mainstream news outlet would dedicate a 1 or 2 minutes, or a portion of a page (if not an entire subsection) to videogames despite doing so with older media, such as film, television, and music.
 

veloper

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Here's a better idea: if you want a website dedicated to videogames and you also want to avoid all suspicion of corruption, accept ad money only from industries related to geek culture, like comics, film, boardgames, cards, etc. and from computer hardware vendors, just as long as you don't take money from videogame publishers.
Then for reviews you'd have to actually buy the games.

This might work, if the site content is good, earning a reputation and attracting more views and thus more ad revenue.

Putting online reviews behind a paywall won't work. Then people will just look elsewhere. I sure wouldn't pay for the reviews, because the reviews there might still suck (and I can already learn what I want to know by browsing metacritic and following the links to a couple more critical reviews).
 

shrekfan246

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veloper said:
Here's a better idea: if you want a website dedicated to videogames and you also want to avoid all suspicion of corruption, accept ad money only from industries related to geek culture, like comics, film, boardgames, cards, etc. and from computer hardware vendors, just as long as you don't take money from videogame publishers.
Then for reviews you'd have to actually buy the games.

This might work, if the site content is good, earning a reputation and attracting more views and thus more ad revenue.
That's more a problem of practicality than anything else.

A lot of video game reviewers, at least on sites smaller than IGN, don't make enough money that purchasing the games themselves is a viable option. Not all of the games they're reviewing, at least. Them receiving video games from publishers/indie developers is more a job necessity than anything else, and that's how most reviewers seem to treat it. They're not "getting a game for free", they're getting a stack of papers slapped on their desk and being told to have it done by next Monday.
 

veloper

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shrekfan246 said:
veloper said:
Here's a better idea: if you want a website dedicated to videogames and you also want to avoid all suspicion of corruption, accept ad money only from industries related to geek culture, like comics, film, boardgames, cards, etc. and from computer hardware vendors, just as long as you don't take money from videogame publishers.
Then for reviews you'd have to actually buy the games.

This might work, if the site content is good, earning a reputation and attracting more views and thus more ad revenue.
That's more a problem of practicality than anything else.

A lot of video game reviewers, at least on sites smaller than IGN, don't make enough money that purchasing the games themselves is a viable option. Not all of the games they're reviewing, at least. Them receiving video games from publishers/indie developers is more a job necessity than anything else, and that's how most reviewers seem to treat it. They're not "getting a game for free", they're getting a stack of papers slapped on their desk and being told to have it done by next Monday.
I wonder how terribly expensive it could really be. When a core gamer can easily have a couple hundred games in his Steam library, then why should it be so much money for anyone actually making a living out of playing games?
We geeks and nerds can afford it, so surely for a small business it wouldn't be more than a tiny investment that should earn itself back in no time.

The one big downside to buying your games, would be getting reviews out later than the regular mags and no scoops. If there's enough patient gamers left who don't pre-order and don't need to play a game during the first weeks, this doesn't have to be a big problem though.
 

MysticSlayer

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Pogilrup said:
Look there was a screenshot of how various gaming news sites got a 15 out of 100 in their evaluation to become Reuters quality.

Of the reasons cited for the low score is, as I will paraphrase: having economic ties to the industry.
I doubt anyone is expecting game journalism to be on the same level as Reuters or The Los Angeles Times. At the same time, though, I don't see anyone actually providing evidence that the close connection between reviewers and publishers is causing widespread corruption. It's speculation at best.
 

shrekfan246

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veloper said:
shrekfan246 said:
veloper said:
Here's a better idea: if you want a website dedicated to videogames and you also want to avoid all suspicion of corruption, accept ad money only from industries related to geek culture, like comics, film, boardgames, cards, etc. and from computer hardware vendors, just as long as you don't take money from videogame publishers.
Then for reviews you'd have to actually buy the games.

This might work, if the site content is good, earning a reputation and attracting more views and thus more ad revenue.
That's more a problem of practicality than anything else.

A lot of video game reviewers, at least on sites smaller than IGN, don't make enough money that purchasing the games themselves is a viable option. Not all of the games they're reviewing, at least. Them receiving video games from publishers/indie developers is more a job necessity than anything else, and that's how most reviewers seem to treat it. They're not "getting a game for free", they're getting a stack of papers slapped on their desk and being told to have it done by next Monday.
I wonder how terribly expensive it could really be. When a core gamer can easily have a couple hundred games in his Steam library, then why should it be so much money for anyone actually making a living out of playing games?
We geeks and nerds can afford it, so surely for a small business it wouldn't be more than a tiny investment that should earn itself back in no time.
It's worth bearing in mind that many, many gamers don't buy those hundreds of games at $50-60 a piece. In fact, most of my own Steam titles were purchased at below $10. It's a significantly smaller investment. And, while I unfortunately cannot provide and sources or citations, from what I understand the average "salary" of a video game reviewer is much lower than most gamers seem to believe it is. It's certainly still enough for them to get by, but they're normal people just like you and I. They have bills, families to support, occasionally employees to pay themselves (especially in the case of Youtube personalities), and their own hobbies. Plus, they only get games for free; consoles, PC hardware, sound equipment, peripherals, that's all stuff which comes directly out of their own pockets. I don't know about you, but most gamers I've seen tend to only buy a single console at a time or even wait a while until the price drops because they're just too expensive to buy all at the same time. Reviewers don't really have that luxury, unless they're on smaller, more niche sites.

Reviewers, by the nature of their job, would be forced to purchase every game being covered at full price, because they need to get their coverage out as soon as they can; view numbers for articles/videos which come out "late" are drastically lower than those released as soon as possible. And, given the fact that Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel and Civilization: Beyond Earth are currently two of the top sellers on Steam, I'd be willing to bet that putting your faith in the patience of gamers isn't a very good idea.

Now, I mean, arguably a reviewer can just cover less software. There's not really any harm in that, many games slip by under the radar these days anyway because there are simply so many games released every single day that it's impossible to expect them all to be covered. But the developer/publisher providing a game to a personality is to their own benefit as well; when a reviewer or critic covers a game, it gives that game exposure (good or bad). Good exposure means more sales of the game, which means more money to the developer/publisher. It's a symbiotic relationship, of sorts. And I suppose, to relate this all back to the topic of the thread, that's probably where the assumption of "paid off" reviews came from to begin with, but as has been pointed out many times over the years, many reviewers simply wouldn't take a "bribe" in the first place, because it's career suicide if it ever got out (and this is the internet; it would get out).

Now, to assassinate my own point, there are reviewers who purchase their own games. In fact, I'm relatively sure that our very own Yahtzee Croshaw personally purchases all (or at least most) of the games he covers in Zero Punctuation. But he's not really living it up rolling around in cash, partying in mansions all weekend long (and he makes money as an author and co-owner of a gaming bar, as well). Though that brings up another point; many reviewers and critics don't make their salary solely covering games. Jim Sterling does Jimquisition, as well as Movie Defense Force, previously Rhymedown Spectacular, and currently Uncivil War (also with Yahtzee). TotalBiscuit streams on Twitch, covers e-sports events, and creates opinion pieces related to the gaming industry. Even Adam Sessler is (or was) quite the busy man when it comes to covering the industry. I think I'd be hard-pressed to name a video game reviewer/critic who makes their living solely covering video games.

...

I'll stop rambling and TL;DR it - Could reviewers purchase their games personally? Yes, probably, at least many of the better-known ones. But I don't think they'd be able to do it without making some concessions and compromises toward their other hobbies/spending habits. And I'm not the kind of person to ask them to do that just for my potential benefit, myself.