How to do Stealth right?

[Booze Zombie]

The light and sound play of Thief 2, the diguises, creative killing and weapon options of Hitman: Blood Money and the freedom of movement and social stealth offered by Assasin's Creed 2 combined into one game would make a game worthy of playing.

Perhaps some kind of assasin game set in a living breathing city, the story of a New York thug who works his way up the criminal ladder with contract killings, the factions that hire and respect him dictated by his style of play and attitude in conversation?

 

[N3Burgener]

/Trunctated

Wow, I agree with everything up there, except the less punishment part. i can't believe I forgot detection in my post. Yes, its imperative. In Riddick, you could hear heartbeats if someone was by you, louder if they were closer. But a more definitive way would be nice, like thermal imaging through walls, or a MW2-style heartbreak sensor?
Definitly get rid of that trial-and-error feel though. Players want to be in control. keep things moving, keep things suspenseful.

I'm highly in favor of strict penalization for being caught .... if it's an intelligently built system. I don't mind getting a "Game Over" screen, or having to start over, or working against a major impediment for the rest of the level if it's because *I* screwed up instead of the game screwing me. If a game does stick with "Trial and Error"-based gameplay, the least they could do is alleviate the sense of "Error" by penalizing you less when you inevitably have to conform to their stupidly obnoxious design.

 

[Tireseas_v1legacy]

Play Hitman 2: Silent Assassin. I loved the stealth in that game. Steal clothing, use special silenced guns, using knives and fiber wire when you want to conserve ammo while silently killing. Also the use of chloroform allows you to incapacitate guards without having to kill them and just killing the target. Great game.

Personally, Hitman 3 was my favorate and the franchise is probably the best mix of stealth and action that doesn't involve Batman. Still waiting on a spiritual sucessor to that game.

 

[almostgold]

I like your idea of creating distractions(unless you saw it from a game [b/]EDIT:[/b] which I am pretty sure you did).

I love stealth games, because I like trying to be stealthy in real life, like sneaking downstairs to get some snacks after dark.

No actually it was just a random thought. I liked the idea of setting something on fire, but needed to justify it within stealth gameplay. So I went with the Hollywood school of thought and just made it into a impractically over-the-top distraction.

 

[SturmDolch]

I remember I owned the Godfather for a brief period. There was an obligatory stealth mission there. I hated it. I hate stealth missions in non-stealth games. It's like quick-time events. Why am I being forced to play something else, something torturously anti-fun in order to get back to the fun? Argh.

I do like Splinter Cell. Chaos Theory was great. I love the gadgets, the precise planning, etc.

Never cared for MGS since it all seems so fake and unrealistic.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Hitman: Blood Money, Splinter Cell: Double Agent (xbox version) and Chaos Theory are probably some of the best stealth games around. In Blood Money, stealth is really more of a suggestion than a required path. In both Splinter Cells, it's always really obvious how visible your are, where enemies are at and when you're making noise. Not only that, you have a bunch of visual options that let you see any tricks or traps that might be ahead. Enemy AI is excellent. Sure, they have a patrol path or general area they stay in, but the guards have multiple alert level reactions and don't blindly walk into the dark if they can do something else.

Also, unless you grab a guy from the rear, all your ways to take out enemies normally involve making at least some noise. Another good thing about all three games is that getting spotted doesn't end the game, it just makes things harder.

Oh, and Chaos Theory had multiple paths through the levels. As did Blood Money. Blood Money even had some semi-sandbox levels. The Mardi Gras level is one of my favorite levels in all my years playing games.

Riddick isn't a bad game, but I don't know about calling a game where you're given a minigun and HAVE to use it in places a "stealth" game. It's more akin to something like Beyond Good and Evil, in that it melds a bunch of genres together. It's not really right in my opinion to take a "jack of all trades" game like Riddick and hold it up as an example/the pinnacle of any particular genre.

To big points I feel are essential to stealth games are graphics and control. Also sound, but graphics and control are the big two. See, stealth games tend to be kinda slow and tense compared to action genres. There's a lot of preparation involved, and careful observation. And if the game looks like crap, all that standing around is going to be really, really boring. Even when there is action, it tends to happen all in a burst before reverting back to stealthy creeping. Control is the other big point. Stealth controls need to feel fluid. When I play a stealth game, I want my character to move fluidly and with catlike grace as I climb about. When I tell him/her to do something, he/she needs to do EXACTLY what I say, because any slight error with the controls can leave me discovered and possibly dead. And then I'll be really annoyed, because I wasted 5 minutes stalking this guy and the controller failed to recognize my stealth kill command and hit him on the butt instead, alerting every jerk in a five-mile radius. So I guess in addition to good controls, stealth games should also have really good bug testers. Buggy stealth games are a pain to play.

In my opinion, my favorite stealth games tend to be the best controlling stealth games.

 

[Urgh76]

for me what makes a good stealth game is a 3rd person view from up-top so you can see most things but not too much (if this goes, there better be a lot more NPC's)

OR a first person where the NPCs have a too fast way of alerting their comrades

Another big issue in stealth gaming is the line of sight. I mean, if an NPC is standing on the other side of the room, walking towards you, shouldnt he be able to see you?

 

[almostgold]

for me what makes a good stealth game is a 3rd person view from up-top so you can see most things but not too much (if this goes, there better be a lot more NPC's)

OR a first person where the NPCs have a too fast way of alerting their comrades

Another big issue in stealth gaming is the line of sight. I mean, if an NPC is standing on the other side of the room, walking towards you, shouldnt he be able to see you?

Games definitely need a way to clarify the line of sight. In some games, it extends in a 180 degree arc around them. Others, you have to be RIGHT where they're looking for them to see you. Bring it up in the tutorial or something. Once again, put the gamer in control, dont make us guess and check

 

[MetalMachine]

any game in the entire thief series

 

[almostgold]

any game in the entire thief series

Eh, even Deadly Shadows? Ive barely played the first two, but people on this forum seem to worship them. But Deadly Shadows got me interested in stealth in the first place. I went back a few months ago for a retro experience. Lets just say that my nostaglia no longer exists.

 

[MetalMachine]

any game in the entire thief series

Eh, even Deadly Shadows? Ive barely played the first two, but people on this forum seem to worship them. But Deadly Shadows got me interested in stealth in the first place. I went back a few months ago for a retro experience. Lets just say that my nostaglia no longer exists.

I for one, thought that deadly shadows wasn't half bad. Sure it wasnt exactly open world with all of those loading zones but hey, as long as I can hide in a shadowy corner while several guards scratch their heads and scream "TAFFER" at the top of their lungs, I am content. Plus it still had garret and the neverending war of steampunk vs magic and thats always fun.

 

[jimduckie]

gee splinter cell was good but when the lights go out the gaurds don't investigate , unbreakable lights was sad and the enemy can afford high tech why no nlght vision goggles ?

hitman was cool ,needed more npcs and more distractions and the fun part was trying not to kill everything

hopefully there will be hitman and splinter cell games out for the ps3 and 360 soon and with the new systems there should have more stealth opitions etc

 

[The Madman]

Eh, even Deadly Shadows? Ive barely played the first two, but people on this forum seem to worship them. But Deadly Shadows got me interested in stealth in the first place. I went back a few months ago for a retro experience. Lets just say that my nostaglia no longer exists.

I for one, thought that deadly shadows wasn't half bad. Sure it wasnt exactly open world with all of those loading zones but hey, as long as I can hide in a shadowy corner while several guards scratch their heads and scream "TAFFER" at the top of their lungs, I am content. Plus it still had garret and the neverending war of steampunk vs magic and thats always fun.

Only major problem with Deadly Shadows was that the levels were so damned small because of the limitations for the Xbox at the time. Other than that it's a fine entry into the series.

I mean in Thief 2: The Metal Age there were missions so big that to even combine two of them would probably outsize everything in Deadly Shadows combined. There's one where you're jumping from rooftop to rooftop in order to break into an above ground maintenance hatch for a massive 'pseudo skyscraper' style building, which itself had a massive and fully explorable multi-level interior. Oh, and did I mention many of the buildings you were leaping from roof to roof were themselves also accessible? You pretty much had a whole small neighborhood at your fingertips.

Then there was the mission that had you following a trail of blood through the Pagan forests after a Hammerite raid. Absolute massive! It had you going through forest and small village, caves and ancient ruins all in one level.

Damn I love the Thief series.

 

[almostgold]

Eh, even Deadly Shadows? Ive barely played the first two, but people on this forum seem to worship them. But Deadly Shadows got me interested in stealth in the first place. I went back a few months ago for a retro experience. Lets just say that my nostaglia no longer exists.

I for one, thought that deadly shadows wasn't half bad. Sure it wasnt exactly open world with all of those loading zones but hey, as long as I can hide in a shadowy corner while several guards scratch their heads and scream "TAFFER" at the top of their lungs, I am content. Plus it still had garret and the neverending war of steampunk vs magic and thats always fun.

Only major problem with Deadly Shadows was that the levels were so damned small because of the limitations for the Xbox at the time. Other than that it's a fine entry into the series.

I mean in Thief 2: The Metal Age there were missions so big that to even combine two of them would probably outsize everything in Deadly Shadows combined. There's one where you're jumping from rooftop to rooftop in order to break into an above ground maintenance hatch for a massive 'pseudo skyscraper' style building, which itself had a massive and fully explorable multi-level interior. Oh, and did I mention many of the buildings you were leaping from roof to roof were themselves also accessible? You pretty much had a whole small neighborhood at your fingertips.

Then there was the mission that had you following a trail of blood through the Pagan forests after a Hammerite raid. Absolute massive! It had you going through forest and small village, caves and ancient ruins all in one level.

Damn I love the Thief series.

Damn I need to get that game. Deadly Shadows wasnt terrible, but it just coulnt hold up to the other stealth games for the Xbox (Splinter Cell, for example)

 

[Samurai Goomba]

gee splinter cell was good but when the lights go out the gaurds don't investigate , unbreakable lights was sad and the enemy can afford high tech why no nlght vision goggles ?

hitman was cool ,needed more npcs and more distractions and the fun part was trying not to kill everything

hopefully there will be hitman and splinter cell games out for the ps3 and 360 soon and with the new systems there should have more stealth opitions etc

Try Chaos Theory and Double Agent. Flashlights and NVG make their appearances. And guards absolutely will investigate broken lights, open doors, anything that's out of place. If they don't have flashlights or goggles, they'll use flares. The only time you get a free ride is on the rare occasion the enemy has no portable illumination, which becomes more and more rare as the levels progress.

 

[almostgold]

Hitman: Blood Money, Splinter Cell: Double Agent (xbox version) and Chaos Theory are probably some of the best stealth games around. In Blood Money, stealth is really more of a suggestion than a required path. In both Splinter Cells, it's always really obvious how visible your are, where enemies are at and when you're making noise. Not only that, you have a bunch of visual options that let you see any tricks or traps that might be ahead. Enemy AI is excellent. Sure, they have a patrol path or general area they stay in, but the guards have multiple alert level reactions and don't blindly walk into the dark if they can do something else.

Also, unless you grab a guy from the rear, all your ways to take out enemies normally involve making at least some noise. Another good thing about all three games is that getting spotted doesn't end the game, it just makes things harder.

Oh, and Chaos Theory had multiple paths through the levels. As did Blood Money. Blood Money even had some semi-sandbox levels. The Mardi Gras level is one of my favorite levels in all my years playing games.

Riddick isn't a bad game, but I don't know about calling a game where you're given a minigun and HAVE to use it in places a "stealth" game. It's more akin to something like Beyond Good and Evil, in that it melds a bunch of genres together. It's not really right in my opinion to take a "jack of all trades" game like Riddick and hold it up as an example/the pinnacle of any particular genre.

To big points I feel are essential to stealth games are graphics and control. Also sound, but graphics and control are the big two. See, stealth games tend to be kinda slow and tense compared to action genres. There's a lot of preparation involved, and careful observation. And if the game looks like crap, all that standing around is going to be really, really boring. Even when there is action, it tends to happen all in a burst before reverting back to stealthy creeping. Control is the other big point. Stealth controls need to feel fluid. When I play a stealth game, I want my character to move fluidly and with catlike grace as I climb about. When I tell him/her to do something, he/she needs to do EXACTLY what I say, because any slight error with the controls can leave me discovered and possibly dead. And then I'll be really annoyed, because I wasted 5 minutes stalking this guy and the controller failed to recognize my stealth kill command and hit him on the butt instead, alerting every jerk in a five-mile radius. So I guess in addition to good controls, stealth games should also have really good bug testers. Buggy stealth games are a pain to play.

In my opinion, my favorite stealth games tend to be the best controlling stealth games.

This was my problem with Splinter Cell (only played up until Chaos Theory). Everything just felt so clunky and unituative. Controlling Sam Fisher was like trying to control a robot while drunk that waits 3 seconds to respond to your commands. I flinched whenever I needed to pull out my gun. The camera didnt help either.

Overall, I've found that I enjoy first-person stealth much more, just because it lends itself to being fluid and immersive.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Snip

This was my problem with Splinter Cell (only played up until Chaos Theory). Everything just felt so clunky and unituative. Controlling Sam Fisher was like trying to control a robot while drunk that waits 3 seconds to respond to your commands. I flinched whenever I needed to pull out my gun. The camera didnt help either.

Overall, I've found that I enjoy first-person stealth much more, just because it lends itself to being fluid and immersive.

I would really, really suggest trying Chaos Theory and Double Agent. I don't really like the original SC games either, but I LOVE the last two. They really addressed a lot of key issues in stealth games with those two installments.

 

[Jaranja]

The best way to handle stealth is to make it entirely optional.

But support it as if it was the main way to play.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Splinter cell chaos theory did it perfectly I think. I disagree with your point about having an assault rifle because in a few bullets you're dead, and usually if you get caught you'll be up against over 3 guys anyways. I also disagree with "enemies should stay in the light" because that would make the game waaaaay too hard. Plus tricking enemies into the shadows and then slitting their throat before they know what's going on is not only super satisfying, but the best strategy for stealth games.

 

[WestMountain]

We all seem to agree that stealth as an option in a game is great, its so much fun to run around in CoD4 with UAV jammer, Dead Silence and a ghillie just creating distractions and waiting for the perfect shot :]