How to get more women working in the games industry?

[Stu35]

I believe women can bring something completely spectacular to the table if only they were given the chance.

How exactly have they not been 'given the chance'?


Just curious. It does often seem that when there is a lack of females in any kind of job (be it Gaming, Engineering, Physicist, etc) then it's a case of "We need more women in this job! Why aren't they being given a chance!?!?!", but when there is a lack of males in a job (Primary Teaching, Nursing, etc.) then at it's very best(teaching) it's "We need more men in this job, why don't men WANT this job?!?!" and at it's very worst is "... ... ..." (that is my attempted representation of nobody giving the slightest fuck at the gender disparity in nursing).

Again, I believe there should be more women in Gaming, as well as Engineering and the Sciences. What I'm not seeing is women being actively prevented from doing these things because of their gender. So to me the issue doesn't become 'giving women a chance', more of a 'getting young women interested/excited about the idea of Gaming as a profession'.

Same needs to be done (in the UK at least) for Men and teaching & nursing, but I digress.

 

[Dr. Doomsduck]

Again, I believe there should be more women in Gaming, as well as Engineering and the Sciences. What I'm not seeing is women being actively prevented from doing these things because of their gender. So to me the issue doesn't become 'giving women a chance', more of a 'getting young women interested/excited about the idea of Gaming as a profession'.

Same needs to be done (in the UK at least) for Men and teaching & nursing, but I digress.

I think in both cases it's a matter of expectations. For me, growing up, it was decidedly uncool to game as a girl. Just not done, whereas for my two brothers it didn't matter squat. For my little niece however (who is like 5 years younger) it's pretty common, because "hey, there are games about BARBIE now so it's OK for girls to play games" (God, I hate those barbie games). The point is that catering to those biased parents (and by proxy children) will on the long run lead to an audience that is used to gaming as a unisex activity.

Likewise, in the hiring department, we have to see if there aren't a few old men living by the standards of 60 years ago who expect women to perform worse.

So, it's both a matter of getting rid of old stereotypes. For a man, it's uncool to be a nurse, so they don't even LOOK at that option. Likewise, a bunch of old nanny's deciding that this guy can't teach toddlers because he has a penis is just as much a problem. One we're definitely running into here in the Netherlands (Education is done by women -> aimed more towards learning methods for women -> Women have a higher chance of getting a college degree)

 

[Aaron Sylvester]

Let me tell you about the Norwegian Gender Equality paradox. Norway is said to have the best "gender equality" in the world when it comes to employment opportunities, pay, etc. The paradox is that roughly ~90% of the health nurses in Norway are female, and 90% of construction workers/engineers are male. And EVERY TIME the government has tried to "force" those ratios to change, the most it has resulted in is a slight spike for maybe ~1 year and then it settles back into those ratios again not long after.

It's because different genders are interested in different occupations and scientific studies have proven that this starts before we're even goddamn born. It's written into our very genes. Newborn baby girls almost always prefer toys with faces while newborn baby boys preferred anything that DIDN'T resemble a face, preferably something mechanical or robotic-looking.

Anyway I'm going to shut up about that and get to the point quickly, which is that gender equality should only refer to opportunity and not ratios. Norway is a shining example of why aiming for "equal ratios" is a very, very stupid concept because we were made to do different things, men and women instinctively week different roles (in general, please don't get fucking mad if you're a female construction worker or something). Not that we CAN'T do whatever we want in today's world, in the last 100 years enormous strides in technology (thanks to men) has made the workplace safe and usable by females as well, jobs have become mostly intellectual today thanks to said technologies.

But it appears that different genders still prioritize different occupations, and Game Development is one of those occupations which women have very little interest in. It's not a bad thing in any fashion. Look at Japan where women are almost absent from the majority of scientific/mechanic/etc research & development, and Japan just happens to be one of the most awesome countries when it comes to world-leading tech & innovation. Odd, isn't it? Hell they practically INVENTED gaming and still hold their ground with companies like Nintendo and Sony.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

That's a bit of a funny bone question you're throwing there.

I think a more appropriate question would be: Are females (gamers or not) actually interested in working in the games industry? There's always a fair percentage of women working in, say, PR and HR and whatnot, but actual game designers are... hm, let me think. Rare? Virtually non-existent? It's pretty much as with, say, ambassadorial positions - do you really think quotas would 'solve' the 'problem' or would they merely just stump the industry as is, since qualified male personnel/artists/professionals couldn't be employed due to quotas and female personnel... aren't really too keen on working in the games industry beyond above mentioned HR, PR and maybe some other rather specific position.

I don't think it's an issue, so I don't think it needs to be messed with. Equal opportunities always sounds neat in theory, in practice it usually creates a mess and sucks hard.

 

[Aetherlblade]

I work in the game industry for Taitale Studios. I have been searching for new tallent to work for us for some time now. The problem is that, in general, that they are more art orientend.

The problem in that is that in my experience there are too many artists in the industry already, so its harder for them to get into it. I have seen a few female programmer working for companies, but only a few.

They would have more chance to get a job in the game industry as programmer for example, but that is not a job they seem very attracted to.


As far as I know there is no sex inequality in the game industry (well, there might be, its just not obvious). The problem is just that art is overflowing right now, where other jobs, like programming, is just not really a job they seem to like.



dunno if this was clear. im kinda half asleep.

 

[Dire Sloth]

The only solution is to offer ponies wrapped in pink ribbons and feminine hygiene products as an incentive to get women to work in the industry.

That's what girls want, right?

Throw Victoria's Secret gift cards in there. I will sign up for the next programming class immediately.

 

[Daystar Clarion]

The only solution is to offer ponies wrapped in pink ribbons and feminine hygiene products as an incentive to get women to work in the industry.

That's what girls want, right?

Throw Victoria's Secret gift cards in there. I will sign up for the next programming class immediately.

No deal.

I can give you basket full of delicious muffins.

I hear women enjoy the inner torment that is the consumption of delicious muffins versus the potential weight gain.

 

[OpticalJunction]

I'm a woman and I would LOVE to work in the games industry. However, the thought of working alongside mostly males is a little intimidating, I have to admit. I don't know anyone who could introduce me to the industry, so there's that, too.

 

[OpticalJunction]

As you all might know, the games industry has become big over the last couple of years, but it has been catering to males for the longest time.

/facepalm.

By catering to males what you mean to say is "giving everyone an equal chance to apply, while simultaneously not utilising social engineering to give women a hand up disproportional to there skill or interest level."

The gaming industry needs more women in the same way that the lucrative rubbish trucking driving industries needs women... Thats to say, not at all.

women bring nothing specific to the table, on the basis of gender.

I'm a woman and I would LOVE to work in the games industry. However, the thought of working alongside mostly males is a little intimidating, I have to admit. I don't know anyone who could introduce me to the industry, so there's that, too.

I hate to be an arse about it, but if the idea of working alongside mostly men seems intimidating to you, you have no place in software developing. Software developing is a balls to the wall, high pressure job... There is no room for people who are anxious of the idea of working with mostly men.

I'm fine with high pressure if the pressure comes from the work itself. What I have a problem with is pressure from subversive sexism. I don't want to find myself unable to relate to my co workers because of my gender, or find myself relegated to areas like HR or admin when my skills are in another (male dominated) area. That's less likely to happen when there are other females around.

 

[OpticalJunction]

I'm fine with high pressure if the pressure comes from the work itself. What I have a problem with is pressure from subversive sexism.

Oh wow, the sexism just dripped off of that comment. The self imposed chip on your shoulder must be huge.

I don't want to find myself unable to relate to my co workers because of my gender, or find myself relegated to areas like HR or admin when my skills are in another (male dominated) area. That's less likely to happen when there are other females around.

Wow, thats even more sexist... Do nme a favour & just go reread what you've written... Because you're social privilege is really showing in that last quote.

what? I know what I wrote, and I wrote it because it HAS HAPPENED TO ME. although it was in another field, so maybe it's different in the gaming industry. I'm not sexist.

 

[Not Matt]

LET ME STOP YOU RIGHT THERE!

this is something that has to happen naturally. you can't force people in to picking this line of career.

Well of course you can, just impose 40-50% female quotas across the board: http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/65f494e6-f5e7-11e1-a6c2-00144feabdc0.html

Then stop hiring people and only allow hiring females till the quotas are filled. alternatively a lot of men could be fired to bring the quotas up to speed, if this is not fulfilled have them sentenced to penalty payments. This is definitely going to make for better games.

Males can start doing other jobs in the meantime more fitting of their physique and pursue careers in garbage disposal, construction work, mining etc.

What you just said is disgusting and sexist on so many levels I have trouble finding out where to start.
But first of all. No. You can not refuse somebody a job just because of their gender. Men and women should be hired and fired at an EQUAL rate. If any workstation denies a person a job because of gender, race, cultural background or sexuality here is what the legal system will do.
1. Accuse the company of being racis
2. Have a big lawsuit
3. Have the company pay the offended job seeker a economical apology
4. Fire the asshole who made the racist move in the first place

And before you ask no the person is not guaranteed a job at the company after that, the have to apply for it again if they still want it.

Second.
You want to fire males in order to legislate their jobs to females. That is disgusting. If a man works hard to get a job and enjoys it. NOBODY should be able to take that away from him. Especially in the executive jobs. They earned their jobs. They worked hard to get to where they are. If somebody then just comes in because they need a girl on the board and tells him to take a hike. It violates the basic rights of humanity. Ever heard the phrase "you own what you have earned" to establish a good employee, the employee needs to have built up respect from co workers, a love for the job and a good work moral.
These are all things that can never be given these things by a judge, or a board or any other authority. This you have to get the good all fashion way. YOU EARN IT! Through hard backbreaking work. This goes for both genders. If a women losses her jib because a man wants it. It is seen as a disgrace and an act of sexism. Well, sexism works both ways. Personally. I will agree with you on one thing. If we get more women on board we will end up with better games. I personally want more female writers in the videosgames industry. There are so many god awful female characters that anybody with a brain can tell that have the potential to will a "character of the year" award if they weren't written like a sack of oversexualized one liners with two melons glued to them. Take Veronique from the saboteur. Brilliant. Stands up for herself and fight for womens rights during WW2. You just see that hard characterisation went in to making her. Especially when she stands next to the character named skyler who is written to remind you of the worlds slutiest stripper. Instead Veronique have her own motives, her own thoughts, her own goals and struggles. And we need more women in character design. And the reason I say this should now be fairly obvious. I won't even go in to it. Just saying I want 50% of the people designing the characters if they ever make a game again.

And then the thing I was most angry at. The F***ING double standard. If a women ask a man to fix her car it is okay. If a man asks a women to make him a sandwich. The fun begins. First of all this is the games industry we are talking about. Most the guys you'll find here will have bodies that would seem like they were made out of polystyrene and string. And the fact that YOU assume that all guys know waistmanagement (waistmanagement? Seriously? That's like having a man say all women should me stay athome moms) or construction work is wrong. All these things require their own skill set. You can't ask a female mechanic to be a chef or a secretary and you can't ask a male office worker to be a fisherman or a builder. Buhh.

The way I see it. Either everything is okay, or nothing is okay. Nobody gets special treatment or differential treatment. We all get the same.

Also. I am writing this while sawing my teeth in to chalk dust so Before you decide to call me Hitler and misogynist. Read this again but change male to female and female to male.
So it sounds like there are women losing their jobs because of men and women being discriminated against. If it made you too almost vomit with rage you have no right to call me the bad guy. I want equality.

edit(after calming down): wow. i really went all out on this one didn't i? sorry if i seem like a lunatic extreme gender politics maniac. just... hit a nerve there i think. Apologies for writing such a ridiculously long post

 

[Vegosiux]

I always maintain that people should be employed in any industry based on their qualifications and desire to work in said industry, and not based on whether or not there's a quota to fill.

I think that's all that needs to be said, too.

 

[IndomitableSam]

Edit: I haven't been typing well at all lately... don't know why. Apologies for lots of typos.

Honestly - in 10-15 years there will be a lot mre women working in games. Girls growing up in the 80's to early 2000's were still (generally) not supported in tech.

My own story?

My cousin created and owned a pretty well-known Canadian visual effects company. He hired his brother on (who is my age) at about 16 to learn coding and programming - he knew as much if not less than my sister and I at the time (we'd built websites and such, same as my cousin). My sister and I asked if we could try it, too. Didn't even expect jobs - just to try it and see. We were refused. We asked if we could intern there, basically, and were refused. THe only women who worked there were admin staff, and later on when they went into TV production, women were hired on in more capacity... but not in the beginning.

In high school we took computer science - except we were the only girls in the class. (This was lke 12-13 years ago, so I may be forgetting things) And our teacher refused to help us with our programming. For our final assignment we had to create a baseball field and have players run the bases - properly. I could get my players to second base, but then they all stuck there and wouldn't go further, no matter what I tried. I called the teacher over to have him look at it and try and help me out. He sat down, looked at my coding, said "wow, you really messed this up," got up, and walked away to help the guys finish their assignments.

Really. Not lying.

Also, in the late 90's in middle school, you get to choose between home economics, sewing class, woodship and electric/metalworking. My sister tried to take the latter two, but was told that no, she had to take home ec and sewing. By the principal. Who was a woman. In the 90's. In Canada.

... Things will change. Girls growing up not aren'tblocked as much - they will go into programming and coding and game design because ti's a more welcoming atmosphere... but until recentley... it hasn't beenn. And it will still be a long time before it doesn't feel like a boy's club.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

There aren't many females in the IT industry as it is, let alone games. I work in software development and we have two main offices. Ours is all males, and the other is about half and half (mostly all the females are in HR, PM, etc.). In my classes in college (which covered web development, programming, database access [SQL], and a bit more) where all males (teacher was a female).

It, well, programming at least, isn't the most fun just unless you absolutely love it. So I can see why not many people (not just women) wouldn't like doing it for a living. We don't choose to keep women out, there aren't that many in it. Not like there are that many women in the construction industry, either.

 

[EmphaFish]

LET ME STOP YOU RIGHT THERE!

this is something that has to happen naturally. you can't force people in to picking this line of career. it is just like with mechanics. it WAS male dominated. now, more women is in it. we just have to wait. women will soon get in to the industry. all we need to do is wait. the world is changing. we are almost at the point where we can say that all human beings are equal and people are judged based on their actions rather then their....... okay i fell of topic here

Now that I think on it, you're right. It needs to happen naturally. Although, I wasn't think of forcing women to work in the games industry. And my wording wasn't accurate to what I was getting across. I emphasized different things then the ones I wanted to.

That's a bit of a funny bone question you're throwing there.

I think a more appropriate question would be: Are females (gamers or not) actually interested in working in the games industry? There's always a fair percentage of women working in, say, PR and HR and whatnot, but actual game designers are... hm, let me think. Rare? Virtually non-existent? It's pretty much as with, say, ambassadorial positions - do you really think quotas would 'solve' the 'problem' or would they merely just stump the industry as is, since qualified male personnel/artists/professionals couldn't be employed due to quotas and female personnel... aren't really too keen on working in the games industry beyond above mentioned HR, PR and maybe some other rather specific position.

I don't think it's an issue, so I don't think it needs to be messed with. Equal opportunities always sounds neat in theory, in practice it usually creates a mess and sucks hard.

Every time I tell myself not to write anything late at night. What do I do? Write late at night. I think that is a better question to the one I had stated, because mine is, well, seems like I want to force women into the games industry. I don't. The reason why I had brought up this question is because I was in sleepy dreamy mode and thinking about the magical things females could do in the games industry. I will admit, females and males think pretty much the same, it's just the creative minds. But I can't help but have this feeling that they could bring more.
To all of you people who think I just want to have women in there just to have women, again, I don't. I couldn't care less about what they look like or what's their gender. But I'm in two minds, I couldn't care less mind and I think they could make things better mind.