How to Hate
- Thread starter Encaen
- Start date
After reading this I went back and looked through my White/Red deck, and I think it could handle the Craterhoof deck pretty easily, considering I have so many options to stall and that it would have to keep dealing with attacks of its own.
Oblivion Rings, Giestflames, Fiend Hunters, Mirrian Crusaders, Due Respect etc.
I could also side in Arc Trail and Spirit Mantle some early f-u.
But if I knew someone was going to be playing Craterhoof, I'd bring my B/W Venser lockdown.
"I play Craterhoof Behemoth".
"Mana Leak".
"Fuck you".
Oblivion Rings, Giestflames, Fiend Hunters, Mirrian Crusaders, Due Respect etc.
I could also side in Arc Trail and Spirit Mantle some early f-u.
But if I knew someone was going to be playing Craterhoof, I'd bring my B/W Venser lockdown.
"I play Craterhoof Behemoth".
"Mana Leak".
"Fuck you".
Haha! I hadn't actually accounted for [mtg_card=Arc Trail]. Taking out an Archdruid and a mana elf on turn 2 is pretty sweet.Paragon Fury said:
I do have to say, though, [mtg_card=Mana Leak] has been a bit lackluster in my testing. Unless they've got the ideal draw and are going for broke on turn four, they'll too often have mana to pay for Leak on turn five or later. I found [mtg_card=Dissipate] a better option, and I'm doing some more testing with [mtg_card=Rewind] to see how that fares, though it may be too slow to be reliable.
The major problem with just countering Craterhoof is the army of 2/2 or bigger elves that you still have to contend with, thanks to the Archdruids. You will have access to DoJ, though, so between that and a suite of counters, you might fare pretty well against Craterhoof.
I actually don't own any DoJs.....my U/W uses Venser and spells for Infinite Bounce + [mtg_card=Stonehorn Dignitary] = Opponent never has a combat step from Turn 5 on. I usually just keep doing that until Venser has enough to get his Badge, at which point I'll just use my reserve of creatures and spells to survive one turn, and then go back to bouncing Stonehorn and exiling something every turn.Encaen said:Haha! I hadn't actually accounted for [mtg_card=Arc Trail]. Taking out an Archdruid and a mana elf on turn 2 is pretty sweet.Paragon Fury said:
I do have to say, though, [mtg_card=Mana Leak] has been a bit lackluster in my testing. Unless they've got the ideal draw and are going for broke on turn four, they'll too often have mana to pay for Leak on turn five or later. I found [mtg_card=Dissipate] a better option, and I'm doing some more testing with [mtg_card=Rewind] to see how that fares, though it may be too slow to be reliable.
The major problem with just countering Craterhoof is the army of 2/2 or bigger elves that you still have to contend with, thanks to the Archdruids. You will have access to DoJ, though, so between that and a suite of counters, you might fare pretty well against Craterhoof.
Its a bit harder to win with, but I've had people and friends tell me its incredibly frustrating to play against, even if you do wind up winning against it. I think my R/W is still better, but the B/W is fun. For the record, the decklist looks like this:
[mtg_card=Venser, the Sojourner] x2
[mtg_card=Inquisitor Exarch] x2
[mtg_card=Negate] x2
[mtg_card=Mana Leak] x2
[mtg_card=Stonehorn Dignitary] x4
[mtg_card=Gideon's Lawkeeper] x4
[mtg_card=Gitaxian Probe] x4
[mtg_card=Aether Adept] x2
[mtg_card=Vapor Snag] x4
[mtg_card=Oblivion Ring] x4
[mtg_card=Suture Priest] x2
[mtg_card=Phyrexian Ingestor] x2
[mtg_card=Vedalken Anatomist] x2
[mtg_card=Village Bell-ringer] x2
[mtg_card=Island] x9
[mtg_card=Plains] x9
[mtg_card=Glacial Fortress] x4
Sideboard:
[mtg_card=Celestial Purge] x2
[mtg_card=Flashfreeze] x2
[mtg_card=Demystify] x2
[mtg_card=Divine Offering] x2
[mtg_card=Fiend Hunter] x2
[mtg_card=Mana Leak] x2
[mtg_card=Arm with Aether] x1
[mtg_card=Soul Parry] x2
Actually, the Elf Ramp deck with Craterhoof lends itself quite well to a variation on [mtg_card=Bonfire of the Damned] aggro/ramp. The plan is the same, as always, but swap out the elf theme (keep the [mtg_card=Elvish Visionary]s, of course) for some Red/green aggro cards like [mtg_card=Flinthoof Boar] (love that little dude), [mtg_card=Strangleroot Geist], and/or [mtg_card=Stromkirk Noble], and power cards like the aforementioned Bonfire, [mtg_card=Reverberate], [mtg_card=Pillar of Flame], [mtg_card=Smelt] (very important), [mtg_card=Huntmaster of the Fells] etc... Maybe toss in [mtg_card=Hellion Crucible] for "something to do" when you have nothing else.
Again, the main goal is to ramp up some little dudes, summon [mtg_card=Craterhoof Behemoth], and Trample over everything... but this lets you get around some pesky Control decks.
I've also been working on a janky combo, using the basic Elf Run deck, but revolving instead around [mtg_card=Druids' Repository] and [mtg_card=Door to Nothingness]... I haven't been able to pull it off properly yet, but seeing the Door in my hand with 4 counters on Repositories did strike some terror into my opponents... right before they killed me. If only [mtg_card=Green Sun's Zenith] could find any permanent, not just creatures...
Again, the main goal is to ramp up some little dudes, summon [mtg_card=Craterhoof Behemoth], and Trample over everything... but this lets you get around some pesky Control decks.
I've also been working on a janky combo, using the basic Elf Run deck, but revolving instead around [mtg_card=Druids' Repository] and [mtg_card=Door to Nothingness]... I haven't been able to pull it off properly yet, but seeing the Door in my hand with 4 counters on Repositories did strike some terror into my opponents... right before they killed me. If only [mtg_card=Green Sun's Zenith] could find any permanent, not just creatures...
The local meta here is either [mtg_card=Birthing Pod] or [mtg_card=Trading Post], so I generally run white. I like to watch people cry when [mtg_card=Stony Silence] hits the table. For a bit less hateness, I backup with [mtg_card=Angel of Jubilation].
I say let them ramp up to the behemoth, then fog, laugh, the follow with a day. spot removal any azuris as needed.
The problem is that if you don't have an answer on their turn 4, your turn 4 might not show up.
Not to mention all the artifact hate running.
Turn 4 on. You play the stonehorn the turn before dropping vensor.Paragon Fury said:
The problem is that if you don't have an answer on their turn 4, your turn 4 might not show up.
10 mana to win the game (Double rainbow at that) is just painful... there's no way you can ramp up quickly enough in standard to make that work.2xDouble said:
Not to mention all the artifact hate running.
I did make an 'antideck' once, which evolved into something of its own for use in friendly multiplayer games, and it was because I kept being foiled by indestructible creatures. (Which were a completely new thing to me at the time).
With mostly only having a smattering backlog of old cards and the Time Spiral block (one booster box of Time Spiral and Planar Chaos' worth at least) as a pool, as well as some odds and ends from a few blocks prior to that which were kindly donated to me, I set about finding a way to set up reusable indestructible creature removal.
The combo I started up with was [mtg_card="Merfolk Thaumaturgist
"] and [mtg_card=Serendib Sorcerer]/[mtg_card=Sorceress Queen] (as the timeshifted version reminded me of the original) to simply turn those indestructible nasties into 2/0s as often as I liked.
Then I added [mtg_card=Fool's Demise] and things got silly.
I then started expanding upon this, adding all sorts of instant creature removal, like [mtg_card=Assassinate]/[mtg_card=Death Stroke] and reusable power reducers to help with the thaumaturgists like [mtg_card=Despondency]. I even added a [mtg_card=Reveka, Wizard Savant
] so I could kill things I managed to reduce to 2 toughness somehow, and a [mtg_card=Freed from the Real] to make it really annoying and possibly a game ender by making every island I had worth two damage.
Thus the deck became a somewhat creature control one, which killed anything that looked at it funny and stole the juiciest targets available with [mtg_card=Fool's Demise] and then proceeded to beat their former owners with them, with [mtg_card=Enslave] to catch the ones I couldn't quite kill.
I eventually added some [mtg_card=Ersatz Gnomes] after a game in which an ally's managed to let me do the kill & control combo on an opponent's [mtg_card=Akroma, Angel of Wrath] (which I was so happy when I found out it was the first Timeshifted card I pulled incidentally), which I proceeded to beat them to death with.
With mostly only having a smattering backlog of old cards and the Time Spiral block (one booster box of Time Spiral and Planar Chaos' worth at least) as a pool, as well as some odds and ends from a few blocks prior to that which were kindly donated to me, I set about finding a way to set up reusable indestructible creature removal.
The combo I started up with was [mtg_card="Merfolk Thaumaturgist
"] and [mtg_card=Serendib Sorcerer]/[mtg_card=Sorceress Queen] (as the timeshifted version reminded me of the original) to simply turn those indestructible nasties into 2/0s as often as I liked.
Then I added [mtg_card=Fool's Demise] and things got silly.
I then started expanding upon this, adding all sorts of instant creature removal, like [mtg_card=Assassinate]/[mtg_card=Death Stroke] and reusable power reducers to help with the thaumaturgists like [mtg_card=Despondency]. I even added a [mtg_card=Reveka, Wizard Savant
] so I could kill things I managed to reduce to 2 toughness somehow, and a [mtg_card=Freed from the Real] to make it really annoying and possibly a game ender by making every island I had worth two damage.
Thus the deck became a somewhat creature control one, which killed anything that looked at it funny and stole the juiciest targets available with [mtg_card=Fool's Demise] and then proceeded to beat their former owners with them, with [mtg_card=Enslave] to catch the ones I couldn't quite kill.
I eventually added some [mtg_card=Ersatz Gnomes] after a game in which an ally's managed to let me do the kill & control combo on an opponent's [mtg_card=Akroma, Angel of Wrath] (which I was so happy when I found out it was the first Timeshifted card I pulled incidentally), which I proceeded to beat them to death with.
Here's [http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/fundamentals/24115_Eternal_Europe_Basic_Sideboarding_Theory.html] a great article on how to sideboard for things if anybody wants to read it.
Generally, the best way to go about putting together a sideboard against someone is picking cards that stop them, but still do something for you. A card that cantrips, at the very least, while still screwing with your opponent's game plane is always great.
Generally, the best way to go about putting together a sideboard against someone is picking cards that stop them, but still do something for you. A card that cantrips, at the very least, while still screwing with your opponent's game plane is always great.
Mono Green or G/U control must not be a thing in your local meta...Draconalis said:
Turn 1: Forest- [mtg_card=Birds of Paradise]
Turn 2: Island - [mtg_card=Avacyn's Pilgrim], [mtg_card=Llanowar Elf], [mtg_card=Jace's Phantasm] (or [mtg_card=Delver of Secrets], but f*** Delver)
Turn 3: Forest - [mtg_card=Druid's Repository], swing with Phantasm (DR counters=1), [mtg_card=Avacyn's Pilgrim]
Turn 4: Any land (preferably Island or blue dual) - any 2 creatures (preferably [mtg_card=Elvish Visionary]), Swing away, [mtg_card=Fog], counter spells as necessary (DR counters=6)
Turn 5: Any land - Swing everything except Pilgrims (DR counters=11), [mtg_card=Door to Nothingness], activate Door, win.
Fast enough?
Works great with G/R too, for spells/combos like [mtg_card=Thatcher Revolt] and [mtg_card=Battle Hymn] alongside the Door.
Then again, nobody in most metas run [mtg_card=Battle of Wits] decks either... yet we have two, functioning perfectly.
Doesn't Door to Nothingness come into play tapped?2xDouble said:
Edit: Also, you thought of Slagstorm but not Flamebreak? Deals with Ezuri damned well, no matter the turn...
So what happens when they use:2xDouble said:
ancient grudge, smelt, naturalize, crushing vines, divine offering, revoke existence, crush, shatter
And that's just the spells, which don't take into account the creatures with EtB effects that destroy artifacts? Or spells that destroy enchantments.
What do you do then? What's your alternate win condition?
I did something very similar but I used [mtg_card=Endless Whispers] with added [mtg_card=Bronze Bombshell] antics.Ringwraith said:
Once used that deck in a 6 way free for all. I got [mtg_card=Reassembling Skeleton] and [mtg_card=Contamination] out right at the start.
The ensuing beatdown I got once everyone else produced enough alternate mana to do something was horrific and very funny.
It wasn't a fantastic deck but it blindsided a lot of people.