How to make Kinect FPS friendly

[ThePlasmatizer]

The problem with a proper Kinect shooter is the controls to move.

In the Half Life 2 Kinect vid [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9uCiOYacAk] the guy is using his right hand to look around and flicking his wrist to move which isn't so intuitive.

Kinect needs something extra: a DDR style dance mat where you just step on arrows to move in that direction which leaves your hands free to make a gun shape to look around and shoot. It's a bit like the twin sticks setup we have for console FPS at the moment.

Yes the obvious downside is another add-on in addition to the Kinect would be needed but I just feel it would be more natural than any alternative.

The funny thing about all this is Kinect will give the gamer more freedom than ever but motion control are still limited in the aspect that there are only so many gestures you can do to replace buttons, as shown by the "on the rails" Star Wars game demo'ed where the lack of buttons influenced it's design.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

Lots and lots of peripherals... plus a dance mat thing for movement and chest high walls for cover.

And some kind of ipad style touchpad to do stuff with (still hoping for a kinect RTS game)

 

[TOGSolid]

The problem with a proper Kinect shooter is the controls to move.

In the Half Life 2 Kinect vid [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9uCiOYacAk] the guy is using his right hand to look around and flicking his wrist to move which isn't so intuitive.

Kinect needs something extra: a DDR style dance mat where you just step on arrows to move in that direction which leaves your hands free to make a gun shape to look around and shoot. It's a bit like the twin sticks setup we have for console FPS at the moment.

Yes the obvious downside is another add-on in addition to the Kinect would be needed but I just feel it would be more natural than any alternative.

The funny thing about all this is Kinect will give the gamer more freedom than ever but motion control is still limited as there are only so many gestures you can do to replace buttons, as shown by the on the rails" Star Wars game demo'ed.

That sounds about as fun as beating myself in the dick with a hammer.

If you want the Kinect to be FPS friendly then make it work exactly like this bad boy:

Head tracking to allow you to look around independently of where you're aiming in the game and it'll allow you to lean around corners precisely with just a small body movement. Oh, and the glorious benefit to this? First person cover systems. You won't have to go into 3rd person because you'll be able to look over walls and what not on your own without having to move a whole lot.
And you won't have to wear anything to make it work with the Kinect.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

Lots and lots of peripherals... plus a dance mat thing for movement and chest high walls for cover.

And some kind of ipad style touchpad to do stuff with (still hoping for a kinect RTS game)

My sarcasm senses are tingling.

Like I said there'd only be a need for one mat and you can duck in real life, no?

Also Kinect motion control already looks great for an RTS game.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

That sounds about as fun as beating myself in the dick with a hammer.

If you want the Kinect to be FPS friendly then make it work exactly like this bad boy:

Head tracking to allow you to look around independently of where you're aiming in the game and it'll allow you to lean around corners precisely with just a small body movement. Oh, and the glorious benefit to this? First person cover systems. You won't have to go into 3rd person because you'll be able to look over walls and what not on your own without having to move a whole lot.

It's the setup you already play on a console but the movement and aiming is naturally split between motion tracking and a mat making it intuitive.

While the head tracking device sounds interesting the price for an additional motion tracker like that would make any Kinect bundle price sky rocket.

 

[Kanodin0]

That doesn't really help as much as you think it does. Consider in order to make a fps player use Kinect you have to not only convince them that doing so is better than a regular control, you also have to convince them it is worth both the large price point and the new learning curve. Your solution makes it more competitive with a regular control, though I doubt it would surpass one, but at an even further increased price point and an even steeper learning curve.

I'd say Kinect's ship has sailed, they've chosen the audience they are going after and trying to get people outside of that audience is futile.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

Lots and lots of peripherals... plus a dance mat thing for movement and chest high walls for cover.

And some kind of ipad style touchpad to do stuff with (still hoping for a kinect RTS game)

My sarcasm senses are tingling.

Like I said there'd only be a need for one mat and you can duck in real life, no?

Also Kinect motion control already looks great for an RTS game.

Well sort of... more jokey realism.

I think kinect could work with FPS but I genuinely believe that to have FPS accuracy you would need several peripherals to make it work.

And dear god I hope for a good kinect RTS.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

That doesn't really help as much as you think it does. Consider in order to make a fps player use Kinect you have to not only convince them that doing so is better than a regular control, you also have to convince them it is worth both the large price point and the new learning curve. Your solution makes it more competitive with a regular control, though I doubt it would surpass one, but at an even further increased price point and an even steeper learning curve.

I'd say Kinect's ship has sailed, they've chosen the audience they are going after and trying to get people outside of that audience is futile.

Can you tell who will win the next World Cup in that crystal ball?

It hasn't even released and you've established it as just a casual item, while the release line up supports this the encouraging details from the Kinect developers that core gamers would be supported as well sounds promising.

I'm not saying at all this setup should replace a controller for most hardcore FPS games, but a motion controlled Kinect shooter in the style of CoD would be pretty cool jsut to give a new spin on FPS.

 

[Bobzer77]

That sounds about as fun as beating myself in the dick with a hammer.

If you want the Kinect to be FPS friendly then make it work exactly like this bad boy:

Spoiler

Head tracking to allow you to look around independently of where you're aiming in the game and it'll allow you to lean around corners precisely with just a small body movement. Oh, and the glorious benefit to this? First person cover systems. You won't have to go into 3rd person because you'll be able to look over walls and what not on your own without having to move a whole lot.

Yeah Track IR is awesome but if Natal.. er I mean Kinect is as advanced as they claim I'm sure it could detect head movements.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

Lots and lots of peripherals... plus a dance mat thing for movement and chest high walls for cover.

And some kind of ipad style touchpad to do stuff with (still hoping for a kinect RTS game)

My sarcasm senses are tingling.

Like I said there'd only be a need for one mat and you can duck in real life, no?

Also Kinect motion control already looks great for an RTS game.

Well sort of... more jokey realism.

I think kinect could work with FPS but I genuinely believe that to have FPS accuracy you would need several peripherals to make it work.

And dear god I hope for a good kinect RTS.

Yeah I'm hoping for an RTS developer to pick up on this as well.

On the point of FPS I don't think you'd need several devices at all, Kinect and a mat you could point, shoot, move and have additional gestures, maybe a throwing motion to chuck a grenade? I can see it working if it's planned out well.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

But if there is a dance mat, how do you strafe and turn and walk at the same time? There are many times when I'm dodging bullets in an FPS where I strafe, turn slightly to aim, and walk backwards towards cover... a mat with a few buttons might make that complicated

 

[Varun Garuda Maharaj]

just use a light gun

 

[Limzz]

I think a motion control fps on one of the two real consoles would start riots to be honest...

 

[TOGSolid]

That sounds about as fun as beating myself in the dick with a hammer.

If you want the Kinect to be FPS friendly then make it work exactly like this bad boy:

Head tracking to allow you to look around independently of where you're aiming in the game and it'll allow you to lean around corners precisely with just a small body movement. Oh, and the glorious benefit to this? First person cover systems. You won't have to go into 3rd person because you'll be able to look over walls and what not on your own without having to move a whole lot.

It's the setup you already play on a console but the movement and aiming is naturally split between motion tracking and a mat making it intuitive.

While the head tracking device sounds interesting the price for an additional motion tracker like that would make any Kinect bundle price sky rocket.

Uh, what? I'm saying the Kinect would function like the TrackIR. Why would you have to buy anything else for the Kinect when it's already a motion tracker? It's also kind of hypocritical for you to be talking about Kinect bundle prices skyrocketing due to extra peripherals when you're going on about having all sorts of extra shit packaged in just to control a gimmick FPS title.

Aiming via motion controls is just balls. It's not fast enough and it's not accurate enough. The Kinect is also very limited in how many people in can track making a motion tracked FPS totally useless for local multiplayer. There's also the issue that I don't want to stand in front of the TV for hours when playing a MP FPS. All of that coupled with having to try and do quick movements on a lame DDR mat over an extended period of time ensures that that game would be a surefire dud. Too many peripherals and it's too much work.

The best route is to have the Kinect function as a TrackIR of sorts. Incorporating slight body movements (i.e. head tracking) to enhance the game means that it's a system that can already be incorporated into current FPS titles in development without a whole lot of extra work from the developers. Hell, they could even go and patch up older games to have these features if they were that motivated. Gamers wouldn't even have to get up and dance around the living room to play their game either. Head tracking + couch potato comfort? Oh hell yes that'd sell and be fun.

EDIT:

Yeah Track IR is awesome but if Natal.. er I mean Kinect is as advanced as they claim I'm sure it could detect head movements.

That's exactly what I'm hoping for. I'm sure the Kinect can do head tracking just fine. It's just a matter of all those lazy-ass, uncreative developers doing something serious with the system and not just making gimmick Wii-style shovelware. Considering the current state of the industry, I highly doubt that's going to happen.

 

[Kanodin0]

That doesn't really help as much as you think it does. Consider in order to make a fps player use Kinect you have to not only convince them that doing so is better than a regular control, you also have to convince them it is worth both the large price point and the new learning curve. Your solution makes it more competitive with a regular control, though I doubt it would surpass one, but at an even further increased price point and an even steeper learning curve.

I'd say Kinect's ship has sailed, they've chosen the audience they are going after and trying to get people outside of that audience is futile.

Can you tell who will win the next World Cup in that crystal ball?

It hasn't even released and you've established it as just a casual item, while the release line up supports this the encouraging details from the Kinect developers that core gamers would be supported as well sounds promising.

I'm not saying at all this setup should replace a controller for most hardcore FPS games, but a motion controlled Kinect shooter in the style of CoD would be pretty cool jsut to give a new spin on FPS.

You mistake me for someone deadset against Kinect, I am not. I am if anything an outside observer to the whole affair, as I only have a PC and Wii.

All I did was bring up several problems beyond basic controls that any attempt at selling Kinect to the fps market must adress. Your solution solves one problem while exacerbating others.

Now I did not write off Kinect as a casual item (what's wrong with being one by the by?) the audience you are attempting to target did. You can get angry about this attitude they have, but you can't make them buy into this product. Thus before selling it to them you must first sell a new idea of the product to them. To be more precise, Microsoft must sell that idea to them. So far they have failed. Their largest opportunity to do so, E3, was instead a massive misfire. Kinect would now require some impressive marketing to change it's image, and I just don't see it happening, thus my comment on ships having sailed.

 

[the_pleasure_is_mine]

Snip

It could possibly be work but I couldn't see it working with a hardcore shooter.

Because hardcore shooters require accuracy and that is something your hands simply do not have on their own. Also because of the large and not-pointy nature of hands the exact position you are shooting at would be quite difficult to determine.

A gun peripheral would remove the clunkiness and unreliability of using your hands and would replace it with a sight and a trigger, helping to minimise movement and pinpoint accuracy.

Though if it could work I would love to see an accessory free light gun style shooter.

 

[mad825]

Epic,this is early speech recognition all over again.

the only problem with the video you show, shows that its going to be like drinking a bottle of vodka then playing flight simulator with a joystick (this was not because of the grapics)

as yatzee has pointed out, you need to create LARGE actions to make a small action in-game with makes this very inefficient than a typical controller with buttons

to conjoin my little comment at the beginning of my post, Kinect has great problems on reconsigning hand gestures and movement

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

But if there is a dance mat, how do you strafe and turn and walk at the same time? There are many times when I'm dodging bullets in an FPS where I strafe, turn slightly to aim, and walk backwards towards cover... a mat with a few buttons might make that complicated

It would be exactly like WASD and a mouse but instead it would be a mat and you gesturing.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

Uh, what? I'm saying the Kinect would function like the TrackIR. Why would you have to buy anything else for the Kinect when it's already a motion tracker? It's also kind of hypocritical for you to be talking about Kinect bundle prices skyrocketing due to extra peripherals when you're going on about having all sorts of extra shit packaged in just to control a gimmick FPS title.

Aiming via motion controls is just balls. It's not fast enough and it's not accurate enough. The Kinect is also very limited in how many people in can track making a motion tracked FPS totally useless for local multiplayer. There's also the issue that I don't want to stand in front of the TV for hours when playing a MP FPS. All of that coupled with having to try and do quick movements on a lame DDR mat over an extended period of time ensures that that game would be a surefire dud. Too many peripherals and it's too much work.

The best route is to have the Kinect function as a TrackIR of sorts. Incorporating slight body movements (i.e. head tracking) to enhance the game means that it's a system that can already be incorporated into current FPS titles in development without a whole lot of extra work from the developers. Hell, they could even go and patch up older games to have these features if they were that motivated. Gamers wouldn't even have to get up and dance around the living room to play their game either. Head tracking + couch potato comfort? Oh hell yes that'd sell and be fun.

Yes but a Dance mat style peripheral is hardly going to break the bank. I suppose you could have head tracking already implemented but even though turning your head to look is natural for a gamer that normally uses a stick or a mouse they'll be stopping every few seconds.

Aiming via motion controls is fine it depends on how good an aim you are, I've heard the Kinect accuracy and lag problems aren't a big deal anymore as well. Also its better if local multiplayer isn't built in if things get frantic I can see people smacking each other in the face accidentally lol. It would be a surefire dud because people have to move their legs? lets face it it's way more fun than going for a run and plenty of people do that every morning.

Well that's your opinion really the problem is you limit the body tracking if you're only tracking the head, so you are making the biggest feature of Kinect pointless.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

That doesn't really help as much as you think it does. Consider in order to make a fps player use Kinect you have to not only convince them that doing so is better than a regular control, you also have to convince them it is worth both the large price point and the new learning curve. Your solution makes it more competitive with a regular control, though I doubt it would surpass one, but at an even further increased price point and an even steeper learning curve.

I'd say Kinect's ship has sailed, they've chosen the audience they are going after and trying to get people outside of that audience is futile.

Can you tell who will win the next World Cup in that crystal ball?

It hasn't even released and you've established it as just a casual item, while the release line up supports this the encouraging details from the Kinect developers that core gamers would be supported as well sounds promising.

I'm not saying at all this setup should replace a controller for most hardcore FPS games, but a motion controlled Kinect shooter in the style of CoD would be pretty cool jsut to give a new spin on FPS.

You mistake me for someone deadset against Kinect, I am not. I am if anything an outside observer to the whole affair, as I only have a PC and Wii.

All I did was bring up several problems beyond basic controls that any attempt at selling Kinect to the fps market must adress. Your solution solves one problem while exacerbating others.

Now I did not write off Kinect as a casual item (what's wrong with being one by the by?) the audience you are attempting to target did. You can get angry about this attitude they have, but you can't make them buy into this product. Thus before selling it to them you must first sell a new idea of the product to them. To be more precise, Microsoft must sell that idea to them. So far they have failed. Their largest opportunity to do so, E3, was instead a massive misfire. Kinect would now require some impressive marketing to change it's image, and I just don't see it happening, thus my comment on ships having sailed.

One big announcement of support on a hardcore game by a big studio like Bethesda, Epic or Infinity Ward and Microsoft will be shipping them by the dozen.