How to make Kinect FPS friendly

[TOGSolid]

Yes but a Dance mat style peripheral is hardly going to break the bank. I suppose you could have head tracking already implemented but even though turning your head to look is natural for a gamer that normally uses a stick or a mouse they'll be stopping every few seconds.

Aiming via motion controls is fine it depends on how good an aim you are, I've heard the Kinect accuracy and lag problems aren't a big deal anymore as well. Also its better if local multiplayer isn't built in if things get frantic I can see people smacking each other in the face accidentally lol. It would be a surefire dud because people have to move their legs? lets face it it's way more fun than going for a run and plenty of people do that every morning.

Well that's your opinion really the problem is you limit the body tracking if you're only tracking the head, so you are making the biggest feature of Kinect pointless.

The biggest feature of the Kinect is motion tracking. I am suggesting something that is motion tracking. At what point am I making the Kinect useless?

I suppose you could have head tracking already implemented but even though turning your head to look is natural for a gamer that normally uses a stick or a mouse they'll be stopping every few seconds.

I own a TrackIR and I can assure you that right out of the box it was the most natural thing to use ever. You really don't have to turn your head that much and it does have sensitivity sliders so you can adjust how much head movement is required. It's one of those things that if someone is describing it to you, it doesn't sound that great, but once you actually use one you realize just how incredibly awesome it is.
In an immersive FPS you already tend to move your body to the game slightly anyway (i.e. leaning to the right a bit when leaning around a corner in game, craning your neck when looking over a wall in game, etc.). The Kinect would just capitalize on that and turn it into in-game motion.


It sounds like you're attempting to market a FPS to the wrong crowd here. It sounds more like a game being built for the casual crowd as opposed to the hardcore FPS crowd in all honesty. We want precision and speed in game, not having to do the hokey pokey while trying to aim at the same time.

 

[Kanodin0]

One big announcement of support on a hardcore game by a big studio like Bethesda, Epic or Infinity Ward and Microsoft will be shipping them by the dozen.

Ah yes the old killer app strategem. A good one to be sure. The problem comes in getting any of those studios to agree to incorporating Kinect. Even then if the classic controller option exists then all that effort is for nothing so they must also agree to Kinect only controls. Still a final problem in that the really hardcore can play it on another platform, so they would also have to try and get it to be an Xbox exclusive for maximum effect.

Now good luck getting a renowned studio to willingly go with those terms, especially with the current anti-Kinect sentiment abounding. Thus Microsoft would either have to pay off one of them, or go in house. They seem to already be doing the latter with Fable 3, but if they really wanted to change courses they would make a Halo Kinect game.

 

[Korey Von Doom]

The problem with a proper Kinect shooter is the controls to move.

In the Half Life 2 Kinect vid [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9uCiOYacAk] the guy is using his right hand to look around and flicking his wrist to move which isn't so intuitive.

Kinect needs something extra: a DDR style dance mat where you just step on arrows to move in that direction which leaves your hands free to make a gun shape to look around and shoot. It's a bit like the twin sticks setup we have for console FPS at the moment.

Yes the obvious downside is another add-on in addition to the Kinect would be needed but I just feel it would be more natural than any alternative.

The funny thing about all this is Kinect will give the gamer more freedom than ever but motion control are still limited in the aspect that there are only so many gestures you can do to replace buttons, as shown by the "on the rails" Star Wars game demo'ed where the lack of buttons influenced it's design.

Or you know we could just stick with a controller with buttons which is way better for immersion

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

Yes but a Dance mat style peripheral is hardly going to break the bank. I suppose you could have head tracking already implemented but even though turning your head to look is natural for a gamer that normally uses a stick or a mouse they'll be stopping every few seconds.

Aiming via motion controls is fine it depends on how good an aim you are, I've heard the Kinect accuracy and lag problems aren't a big deal anymore as well. Also its better if local multiplayer isn't built in if things get frantic I can see people smacking each other in the face accidentally lol. It would be a surefire dud because people have to move their legs? lets face it it's way more fun than going for a run and plenty of people do that every morning.

Well that's your opinion really the problem is you limit the body tracking if you're only tracking the head, so you are making the biggest feature of Kinect pointless.

The biggest feature of the Kinect is motion tracking. I am suggesting something that is motion tracking. At what point am I making the Kinect useless?

I suppose you could have head tracking already implemented but even though turning your head to look is natural for a gamer that normally uses a stick or a mouse they'll be stopping every few seconds.

I own a TrackIR and I can assure you that right out of the box it was the most natural thing to use ever. You really don't have to turn your head that much and it does have sensitivity sliders so you can adjust how much head movement is required. It's one of those things that if someone is describing it to you, it doesn't sound that great, but once you actually use one you realize just how incredibly awesome it is.
In an immersive FPS you already tend to move your body to the game slightly anyway (i.e. leaning to the right a bit when leaning around a corner in game, craning your neck when looking over a wall in game, etc.). The Kinect would just capitalize on that and turn it into in-game motion.


It sounds like you're attempting to market a FPS to the wrong crowd here. It sounds more like a game being built for the casual crowd as opposed to the hardcore FPS crowd in all honesty. We want precision and speed in game, not having to do the hokey pokey while trying to aim at the same time.

It's biggest feature is full body motion tracking which is the whole point why you need to get up and play it.

I don't have a TrackIR so fair enough if it's natural but like I said it's not using the system to it's full potential.

Market to the wrong crowd? it's exactly like a light gun game but with movement, it's marketing it to all crowds because it's simply just fun to to get up with dual pistol hands and blow everyone away.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

I think we're forgetting that for the FPSs to work like that, you'd need fricking cameras set in a square around you.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

The problem with a proper Kinect shooter is the controls to move.

In the Half Life 2 Kinect vid [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9uCiOYacAk] the guy is using his right hand to look around and flicking his wrist to move which isn't so intuitive.

Kinect needs something extra: a DDR style dance mat where you just step on arrows to move in that direction which leaves your hands free to make a gun shape to look around and shoot. It's a bit like the twin sticks setup we have for console FPS at the moment.

Yes the obvious downside is another add-on in addition to the Kinect would be needed but I just feel it would be more natural than any alternative.

The funny thing about all this is Kinect will give the gamer more freedom than ever but motion control are still limited in the aspect that there are only so many gestures you can do to replace buttons, as shown by the "on the rails" Star Wars game demo'ed where the lack of buttons influenced it's design.

Or you know we could just stick with a controller with buttons which is way better for immersion

Like I said it won't beat a controller setup but it'd give a new edge to FPS which would be fun, you don't go to an arcade to play Time Crisis and expect to play with a controller do you?

 

[Jonluw]

I think the problem with FPSs on the kinect will be like on the wii: to turn you have to point towards the edge of the screen, which is hardly a realistic representation of turning.

 

[ThePlasmatizer]

One big announcement of support on a hardcore game by a big studio like Bethesda, Epic or Infinity Ward and Microsoft will be shipping them by the dozen.

Ah yes the old killer app strategem. A good one to be sure. The problem comes in getting any of those studios to agree to incorporating Kinect. Even then if the classic controller option exists then all that effort is for nothing so they must also agree to Kinect only controls. Still a final problem in that the really hardcore can play it on another platform, so they would also have to try and get it to be an Xbox exclusive for maximum effect.

Now good luck getting a renowned studio to willingly go with those terms, especially with the current anti-Kinect sentiment abounding. Thus Microsoft would either have to pay off one of them, or go in house. They seem to already be doing the latter with Fable 3, but if they really wanted to change courses they would make a Halo Kinect game.

Well Epic always seem up for new technology, they took an interest in optimizing games for Cloud gaming, why not another style of shooter?

 

[Racecarlock]

Well, it would work well until a wasp flies into the room and then your character will probably throw all of his grenades away and then start bashing a chair. Thank you yahtzee!

 

[Shiny Rabbit]

I remember in an episode of SentUAMessage (I think this is UK only, not too sure) on the Xbox 360 Dashboard last year I think it was, one of the presenters suggested using a regular controller to move and to turn your head to aim, but I think this makes it redundant because you have a perfectly good right analogue stick to aim with less than 2 inches from your thumb

 

[dylan99952]

One big announcement of support on a hardcore game by a big studio like Bethesda, Epic or Infinity Ward and Microsoft will be shipping them by the dozen.

Ah yes the old killer app strategem. A good one to be sure. The problem comes in getting any of those studios to agree to incorporating Kinect. Even then if the classic controller option exists then all that effort is for nothing so they must also agree to Kinect only controls. Still a final problem in that the really hardcore can play it on another platform, so they would also have to try and get it to be an Xbox exclusive for maximum effect.

Now good luck getting a renowned studio to willingly go with those terms, especially with the current anti-Kinect sentiment abounding. Thus Microsoft would either have to pay off one of them, or go in house. They seem to already be doing the latter with Fable 3, but if they really wanted to change courses they would make a Halo Kinect game.

The halo think might work, but if kinect touches reach i will have to kill somebody. Maybe lots of somebodys. Leave that shit for Activision. Bungie needs their last halo game to not suck.

 

[TOGSolid]

I think we're forgetting that for the FPSs to work like that, you'd need fricking cameras set in a square around you.

Sounds like a job for multiple Kinects and a really motivated tech hacker.

It's biggest feature is full body motion tracking which is the whole point why you need to get up and play it.

I don't have a TrackIR so fair enough if it's natural but like I said it's not using the system to it's full potential.

Market to the wrong crowd? it's exactly like a light gun game but with movement, it's marketing it to all crowds because it's simply just fun to to get up with dual pistol hands and blow everyone away.

You're technically supposed to get up to play games on the Wii, and I figured out how to play all of the games from the comfort of the couch. Yes, even bowling. Am I not using the system to its full potential?

Hardcore gamers are going to want a FPS game that has all of the speed and action of current FPS titles like Bad Company 2, Modern Warfare, Halo, Killzone 2, and whatever else is popular on the consoles these days. A game that has accuracy issues like your average Wii title just isn't going to go over well with that crowd. I'm not saying that something full body might not be fun, I'm just saying it's not going to accomplish the goal of having FPS titles on the Kinect work on a regular basis. Your solution would involve the game being built from the ground up to take advantage of what you want and as you can see by the reaction in this thread, it wouldn't go over to well with the hardcore crowd. Which is the exact crowd Microsoft keeps insisting the Kinect would be great for.
My solution can be pretty much dropped into any current FPS title and give the Kinect something to get traction on and to take off with with the twitch FPS crowd because it's a system that would give them more advantages in game without being a burden. Both can co-exist, it's just a matter of practicality and marketability. Not too many people are going to want to get yet another peripheral just to play a couple of titles.

And you really should get a friend with a TrackIR and give it a try. It's fun as hell. You'll definitely understand why I'm pushing so hard to have the Kinect function like one in twitchy FPS games.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

I think we're forgetting that for the FPSs to work like that, you'd need fricking cameras set in a square around you.

Sounds like a job for multiple Kinects and a really motivated tech hacker.

Shouldn't be too long. I do wonder what the haxxorz will do with this piece of shit.

 

[Jadak]

I'm not sure what the point of an actual mat would be. Theoretically, couldn't Kinect just track where your legs are? Creating a "virtual mat"?

 

[goldfalsebond]

that would defeat the whole purpose of Kinect, which is to not have any controller whatsoever. This is why the whole premise of Kinect will not go over well, because you almost always need SOMETHING to hold/stand on/press to make it more intuitive. I am not just saying this because I am an Xbox hater because I am not. I own both systems, and hold them with equal regard. However, it is because of simple issues like this that I think Kinect will end up as a failure. I am glad that people are working on new technology and stuff like that, but it is not going to go over well, especially if they have to add some sort of accessory, because that ruins the whole purpose of creating Kinect.

 

[Drexlor]

I still think that Move has way more potential for any type of genre.

 

[Racecarlock]

I think you're all ignoring one fundamental problem. How exactly the hell will you get the soldier to walk forward, by walking forward in real life until you hit the TV screen?

 

[Supernova2000]

The solution is simple: throw Kinect in the bin and design said shooter for the tried and true controller so you can then focus on making that game good and stop the proliferation of the delusional holodeck-wannabe fantasy that is the 3D/motion control coalition and wait until we actually have the technology.

 

[Dfskelleton]

The first step to make a good FPS with motion controls is to not make an FPS with motion controls. Step 2 is to stop using motion controls. Step 3 is to punch yourself in the face for actually WANTING to use motion controls.
Sound easy?

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Or we could just abandon Kinect for what it is. A feeble attempt at trying to muscle in on the Wii's hardware sales by Microsoft.