Humble Indie Bundle 3: Now With Minecraft

[Ossian]

That's not what he said.

"He paid what he felt it was worth"

This being the 1p I mentioned in my first post.

Okay you lost my support.

 

[Ickorus]

Why is everyone arguing about morality when it's simply economics? He was asked to pay what he wanted. He paid what he felt it was worth.

Actually, nowhere did he actually comment on what he felt the bundle was worth, merely what he actually paid for it. A small distinction, but an important one, I feel.

Please read my already posted response as I feel it would be a waste repeating myself.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.303607-Humble-Indie-Bundle-3-Now-With-Minecraft?page=2#12158710

I just figure it would be a good idea to state the case of a portion of us folk donating low for the games.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Why is everyone arguing about morality when it's simply economics? He was asked to pay what he wanted. He paid what he felt it was worth.

Actually, nowhere did he actually comment on what he felt the bundle was worth, merely what he actually paid for it. A small distinction, but an important one, I feel.

That's not what he said.

"He paid what he felt it was worth"

This being the 1p I mentioned in my first post.

Yes, I know, but unless the person who said that is psychic, he has no way of knowing if what you paid is, in fact, what you felt the bundle was actually worth.

 

[Eggsnham]

I take it I'm not the only one who has donated just $0.01 ..

That really makes me sad :\ These indie devs throw out these awesome games, in an awesome promotion, to try and raise some money for charity (and themselves). They give us the option to pay what we would like, and split that money up how we see fit. Yet, some people would rather pay a penny because they can *sigh*

Don't take me the wrong way, I'm not saying to spend a fortune. But, for God sakes, you can't even throw them $1? For 5 friggin games??? Just saying...

I know we're of different opinions, but if it makes you feel better - I have donated £0.01 to charity (on the first HB) and £0.02 to the devs (HB 2 + 3)

What's really sad is that you feel totally justified in being that cheap.

He is.

I'm not saying it's the best thing to do, but he is justified because there's the option to do so.

It if were being sold for a minimum of ten dollars or something like that, and he found some way to exploit it and pay only $0.01 for it, that's unjustified.

Besides, it's not like throwing them a pockets worth of spending money is going to make a massive difference when there are people donating large amounts of money to the project already.

 

[Rack]

I think its wrong for people to berate this guy, sure its easy to hate on a guy for being cheap, but I know I paid everything I could spare for the bundle, all that of $2.00 that was in my bank account (balance now at $0.34) I could probably spare a few more dollars, but I want to eat lunch next time I'm at school.

Not everyone has an income, Some people aren't well off, making them (us) feel like trash doesn't help the situation. Some people forget themselves, and I know what little I could spend was/felt more generous, then some kid paying $20 out of his allowance.

Commence flaming towards me if you want.

On topic: good to see notch supporting the Bundle, I've monitored it and he's actually bought the game 3-4 times it seems. I don't think it hurts his fortune.

Paying $2 because that's all you can afford is entering into the spirit and perfectly fine. Paying 0.01 three times when you can clearly afford more then bragging about it is a bit of a jerk move.

 

[Gindil]

Why is everyone arguing about morality when it's simply economics? He was asked to pay what he wanted. He paid what he felt it was worth.

Actually, nowhere did he actually comment on what he felt the bundle was worth, merely what he actually paid for it. A small distinction, but an important one, I feel.

That's not what he said.

"He paid what he felt it was worth"

This being the 1p I mentioned in my first post.

Yes, I know, but unless the person who said that is psychic, he has no way of knowing if what you paid is, in fact, what you felt the bundle was actually worth.

Susan, I believe you're taking away the wrong part of my argument. He gave more than 0 pds to the HIB. Money has a scarce value. That's the basis of economics which we agree on. He valued his money and gave the developers and publishers what he felt it was worth to him. Everyone wants to look down upon him for stating what he felt it was worth. No one is asking why he paid so little, they're chastising him for it.

So a better question in my mind would be: "What would cause you to pay more for the HIB?" Maybe there were personal incentives that could be given to people among other ideas that would increase the value.

He could have just downloaded the games and given nothing. He did give something. It's just not what others would give with their circumstances being different.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Why is everyone arguing about morality when it's simply economics? He was asked to pay what he wanted. He paid what he felt it was worth.

Actually, nowhere did he actually comment on what he felt the bundle was worth, merely what he actually paid for it. A small distinction, but an important one, I feel.

That's not what he said.

"He paid what he felt it was worth"

This being the 1p I mentioned in my first post.

Yes, I know, but unless the person who said that is psychic, he has no way of knowing if what you paid is, in fact, what you felt the bundle was actually worth.

Susan, I believe you're taking away the wrong part of my argument. He gave more than 0 pds to the HIB. Money has a scarce value. That's the basis of economics which we agree on. He valued his money and gave the developers and publishers what he felt it was worth to him. Everyone wants to look down upon him for stating what he felt it was worth. No one is asking why he paid so little, they're chastising him for it.

So a better question in my mind would be: "What would cause you to pay more for the HIB?" Maybe there were personal incentives that could be given to people among other ideas that would increase the value.

He could have just downloaded the games and given nothing. He did give something. It's just not what others would give with their circumstances being different.

Everything you said is true, but it simply isn't that black and white. Can you think of the last thing you encountered that you really, truly thought was only worth a penny? I can't. I've run into many things I thought were worthless, certainly, but nothing that I thought was only almost worthless.

You raise a good point, however, that perhaps it would be more constructive to learn why he made the choice he made.

 

[Your Nightmare]

Why is everyone arguing about morality when it's simply economics? He was asked to pay what he wanted. He paid what he felt it was worth.

Actually, nowhere did he actually comment on what he felt the bundle was worth, merely what he actually paid for it. A small distinction, but an important one, I feel.

That's not what he said.

"He paid what he felt it was worth"

This being the 1p I mentioned in my first post.

Yes, I know, but unless the person who said that is psychic, he has no way of knowing if what you paid is, in fact, what you felt the bundle was actually worth.

Ok then. I admit I got a little jumbled up. What I meant to say is that I don't value each of these games at 1p. I haven't actually played them but it takes a lot more effort for them to be worth 1p. I paid 1p simply because I had the option too. The organisers gave me the option too do it, so I did.

If these were 5 cars and I was told I could pay how much I wanted with the money going to charity and the manufacturers - I would still pay 1p.
Also, I don't tip.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Why is everyone arguing about morality when it's simply economics? He was asked to pay what he wanted. He paid what he felt it was worth.

Actually, nowhere did he actually comment on what he felt the bundle was worth, merely what he actually paid for it. A small distinction, but an important one, I feel.

That's not what he said.

"He paid what he felt it was worth"

This being the 1p I mentioned in my first post.

Yes, I know, but unless the person who said that is psychic, he has no way of knowing if what you paid is, in fact, what you felt the bundle was actually worth.

Ok then. I admit I got a little jumbled up. What I meant to say is that I don't value each of these games at 1p. I haven't actually played them but it takes a lot more effort for them to be worth 1p. I paid 1p simply because I had the option too. The organisers gave me the option too do it, so I did.

If these were 5 cars and I was told I could pay how much I wanted with the money going to charity and the manufacturers - I would still pay 1p.
Also, I don't tip.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Gindil]

Ok then. I admit I got a little jumbled up. What I meant to say is that I don't value each of these games at 1p. I haven't actually played them but it takes a lot more effort for them to be worth 1p. I paid 1p simply because I had the option too. The organisers gave me the option too do it, so I did.

If these were 5 cars and I was told I could pay how much I wanted with the money going to charity and the manufacturers - I would still pay 1p.
Also, I don't tip.

I knew this seemed familiar. XD

Everything you said is true, but it simply isn't that black and white. Can you think of the last thing you encountered that you really, truly thought was only worth a penny? I can't. I've run into many things I thought were worthless, certainly, but nothing that I thought was only almost worthless.

You raise a good point, however, that perhaps it would be more constructive to learn why he made the choice he made.

Again, economically speaking, the value that you're giving the HIB vs Nightmare is irrelevant.

Looking at other [http://www.techdirt.com/blog/casestudies/articles/20110403/21272213750/more-data-thoughts-pay-what-you-want-stylus-experiment.shtml] experiments, that are similar [http://www.techdirt.com/blog/casestudies/articles/20110217/01444113148/case-study-how-ted-learned-that-giving-it-away-increased-both-popularity-revenue.shtml], you begin to see some people are going to give large amounts and some give small amounts. The stylus argument resembles this one closely so I would pay attention to that one more.

 

[Lancer873]

Nice to see VVVVVV getting some more respect! And an upgrade too! An upgrade that comes with a level by Notch, nonetheless. As for the others... I got And Yet It Moves a while back, it was pretty good, Crayon Physics looks kinda fun but I've played a lot like it and idk if I'd be that interested. Cogs seems interesting but I've never been a huge pure-puzzle fan, and hammerfight looks... interesting... but I'm not so sure about it. All in all I'm not too excited, but anything that gets more content to VVVVVV is awesome to me. =3

 

[Maze1125]

He doesn't deserve to be flamed for it.

Yes he does.

Would you rather he pirated it?

Yes, I would, that wouldn't have cost the developers any money.
As it was, he paid an amount that was less than the Pay-Pal fees and used their bandwidth to download it.

So, rather than pirating it, which would have made his interaction with the game one of complete indifference to the developers, it got hold of the game in a way that explicitly cause the developers to lose money.

Yes, he was free to pay $0.01, but that freedom doesn't justify it.
There's such a thing as free speech, that doesn't mean that someone who swears in toddlers' faces doesn't deserve to be told that they're a scum-bag. They're free to do it, doesn't mean they're right.

 

[Dogstile]

He doesn't deserve to be flamed for it.

Yes he does.

Would you rather he pirated it?

Yes, I would, that wouldn't have cost the developers any money.
As it was, he paid an amount that was less than the Pay-Pal fees and used their bandwidth to download it.

So, rather than pirating it, which would have made his interaction with the game one of complete indifference to the developers, it got hold of the game in a way that explicitly cause the developers to lose money.

Yes, he was free to pay $1, but that freedom doesn't justify it.
There's such a thing as free speech, that doesn't mean that someone who swears in toddlers' faces doesn't deserve to be told that they're a scum-bag. They're free to do it, doesn't mean they're right.

Free speech? Don't make me laugh, you're on the escapist forums, we don't have free speech here. It says explicitly in the rules that you're not allowed to flame other members.

Nice job cutting up my post though, you've ignored my main point.

Even if you think he's scum, what gives YOU the right to ignore forum rules and flame him for it? It paints a wonderful picture of "The Escapist! Welcome, follow our rules, oh, and if we agree with you, flaming is A-OK!".

 

[Oisin XD]

A lot of people are saying that Nightmare doesn't deserve to be berated. I'm inclined to disagree; I think it's wrong to berate others for voicing their opinion on the matter. Ignoring forum rules aside, I don't think one should suppress how they feel about the fact that he paid so little. If you think it was a scummy thing to do, then you should let him know. If you want to, that is. If you agree with him, then defend him.

Making an altruistic project like the HIB pay money to give you games is kind of despicable, in my opinion. I don't feel like I have to suppress that feeling with the clinical "well, 1p was an option, so it's not wrong to actually pay that little". This is not a question of rules. It's a question of morality; has been from the start. I don't think it's hypocritical of me to berate Nightmare; I am higher up than him on the moral ladder - at least in this case - simply because of the fact that I paid more money than him. My $14.99 high horse has to do something, right?

Sorry for being preachy.

 

[USSR]

EDIT:

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

No, there are plenty of cheap bastards in the world.

Offensive Comments (Tier 3): Did you just make a racist/sexist remark or post something that may offend someone, even if it wasn't intended towards the rest of the community? Well, you might be in the running to receive one Grade A probation, courtesy of our friends the Mods! Seriously, if you know it might hurt someone's feelings, then don't post it. Probations are mostly given to those who laugh at another's tasteless or derogatory jokes, and a taboo rule on The Escapist is not to feed the trolls, let alone egg them on.

Seconded.

Just plain irritating.
Low post content.


OT- I can only spend about $5 as of now, but by Thursday I should be able to donate an extra $20.
Great bundle, even if I end up not liking the games they deserve it for all their hard work.

I donate to charity on separate occasions, all of mine will to the devs.

 

[Maze1125]

He doesn't deserve to be flamed for it.

Yes he does.

Would you rather he pirated it?

Yes, I would, that wouldn't have cost the developers any money.
As it was, he paid an amount that was less than the Pay-Pal fees and used their bandwidth to download it.

So, rather than pirating it, which would have made his interaction with the game one of complete indifference to the developers, it got hold of the game in a way that explicitly cause the developers to lose money.

Yes, he was free to pay $1, but that freedom doesn't justify it.
There's such a thing as free speech, that doesn't mean that someone who swears in toddlers' faces doesn't deserve to be told that they're a scum-bag. They're free to do it, doesn't mean they're right.

Free speech? Don't make me laugh, you're on the escapist forums, we don't have free speech here. It says explicitly in the rules that you're not allowed to flame other members.

That wasn't my point at all, try reading it again.

Nice job cutting up my post though, you've ignored my main point.

Even if you think he's scum, what gives YOU the right to ignore forum rules and flame him for it? It paints a wonderful picture of "The Escapist! Welcome, follow our rules, oh, and if we agree with you, flaming is A-OK!".

I cut up your post because those were the part I was responding to. Not everything you said I disagreed with, so I didn't respond to those bits.

People don't have a right to flame someone on these forums, even though this guy deserves it, but few people have been doing that.

Most people have been expressing their displeasure at his action with reasoned explanations behind their expression. That's not flaming, that's giving their opinion.

Certainly, some people have been flaming him, and they don't have a right to do that, they have broken the rules and they can be modded for it if the mods so choose.

Is it wrong that the mods are more lenient to flames they agree with? No, it isn't. As you said, it's their forum, you don't have any rights here, they can mod for whatever they want.
If there was a thread saying horrible things about Princess Diana and how she deserved to die, it would probably be modded quite quickly.
If there was exactly the same thread but about Stalin instead, it probably would take a lot longer to get modded, if at all, and quite rightly so.

Mods are allowed to have opinions about people, and make their modding decisions based upon those opinions, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

 

[Mouse_Crouse]

He is absolutely playing by the rules, no question about that.

That doesn't make paying a penny for five games any less of a jerk move, however.

First.. I just have to say *shrill 12 year old girl scream* Susan responded to me! I love your reviews. Came across Splosion' Man and bought it based purely on your review. Love it and everything Twisted Pixel makes.

*ahem*

Moving on, like I said, what the guy said was never morally defensible and (in my view wrong). However I can't really see the tipping analogy because tipping is gratuity on top of what you are charged for your food. This is simply them telling you to pay what you want for a product, not a service. I can see where you guys are coming from, I really can. I just don't see how calling him(and others like him) a "bastard" is helpful is making him see the error of his ways. It's not really helpful, and borderline against the rules.

 

[Sebster 105]

I paid 5 dollars and I feel bad for paying so little

I literally couldn't live with myself if I paid 0.01

 

[USSR]

Ignore. Accident edit/post.

 

[Zelda_Lover26]

Hmmm... You know what? I've got a few bucks left in my bank account, I think I might just purchase this. Besides, whats wrong with supporting the Independence every once and a while.

Now, I'm still considering buying it, even as I type this part, and probably will even if its responded to, but I'm curious, this is the first I've heard of these games (except Minecraft, which I own and its awesome!), what are these games like. Are they good? They look interesting. You don't have to say much, I'm just curious what you guys have to say about it (And Yet it Moves... huh... the name sounds interesting)

Note: I'm not trying to troll or anything. Sorry if it sound like I am.