Humor: When does comedy cross the line and turn into bullying?

[BoredRolePlayer]

I mean if they went to a costume contest they would flat out lose, and more hardcore congoers would most likely talk a lot more shit (and meaner) like how they should have no business or they are not true fans. But you can go and do something you like, but the moment you put it out on public it's going to be judged.

I don't actually know any cosplayers well, but I do know that: yes, those people are likely to get flattened by the meaner and/or more hard core folks. However, just because someone else is doing it, does that make it okay? Personally, I think that the excuse "Well everybody else is going to laugh at them, so they should either just suck it up or not do it in the first place," falls flat. It's the old "If everybody else was jumping off a cliff..."

I'm not only, or even mostly, speaking about the Top 5 either. On every gaming forum I've been to, there are always entire threads justifying abysmal behaviour because the subject "had it coming," or "should have expected it." Everyone is entitled to their own way of thinking, of course, but I believe that there's a difference between laughing at people and laughing with them, and I believe that the former isn't okay. It's not cool to make fun of people, and just because you think a person deserves whatever treatment he or she is getting, it doesn't necessarily follow that they do.

A good example is the ugliness that befell Jennifer Heppler when she dared to say that she didn't actually enjoy the combat portion of video games and that it is not, strictly speaking, necessary for conflict presentation and resolution. Do I, personally, agree with her. No. I like to chop darkspawn in half and watch the tainted blood splatter across my PC. I find it stress relieving and kinda funny to pop an alien in the face and watch it explode, but that doesn't mean that Mrs. Heppler's opinion isn't valid, and it certainly doesn't make it okay for the internet to suddenly open up and spew forth the kind of wrath that she got covered in. In nearly everyone of the awful youtube videos and ugly tweets, the perpetrators said something like "What did she expect, saying something like that about video games? She should have realized what was coming!"

I'm not saying just because one person doing it doesn't make it OK, but I think there is a difference in what happen between this and Jennifer Heppler(Or anyone who has a counter point on gaming, because people will threaten lives over that stuff or sling slurs and stuff and NOT for jokes but to hurt). For one thing she didn't really say "You shouldn't cosplay at all" or "Your costume is bad go die". In all honesty she made jokes about the costumes and showed better ones as a point of reference for her pick(again I think the dude as sailor moon she was a bit hard on). Honestly Zero Punctuation has harsh jokes and no one bats a eye at him. Mostly because I guess this video had real people, but then does that mean if she didn't show the pictures would it be ok? I mean does Anderson Cooper go to far when he does the ridiculous and laugh at people for being stupid, I mean he was pretty much laughing at how absurd a mother was for giving her child coffee starting at 9 months old and gives her sugar pixie sticks and soda in one drink saying "Juice has just as much sugar so why not give her that". I mean he was kinda laughing at her logic and had her in that segment to highlight how stupid she was. So did he cross the line? I ask because this isn't a forum troll, or a internet famous person this is a while known and popular news reporter.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Ok, I don't get it, is this for real? Are we seriously that insanely sensitive now?

Look, it doesn't matter what jokes you crack, someone, somewhere, at some time, will be offended...always. If we've gotten to the point where a guy strapping water jugs to his shins and declaring that he's Megaman, or a guy with facial hair who weighs at least 250 pounds dressing up like a female character who looks like she has a 21 inch waist, can't be given a light verbal jab, then I give up.

It's not even insulting the person...it's calling out how bad their costume is.

 

[fibchopkin]

Ok, I don't get it, is this for real? Are we seriously that insanely sensitive now?

Look, it doesn't matter what jokes you crack, someone, somewhere, at some time, will be offended...always. If we've gotten to the point where a guy strapping water jugs to his shins and declaring that he's Megaman, or a guy with facial hair who weighs at least 250 pounds dressing up like a female character who looks like she has a 21 inch waist, can't be given a light verbal jab, then I give up.

I think you're oversimplifying things a bit, but to clarify: this thread isn't supposed to be about light joviality or harmless fun and it's also not specifically about the top 5 video- although, as I said, I did find that feature to inappropriate for a number of reasons. This thread is an honest query about what other escapists do and do not believe constitutes bullying.

I think it's okay if you don't have a problem with the video- that's your right as an individual but the fact that others do, and that they have opinions that differ from yours, doesn't mean that they are wrong, or stupid. Personally, I think it means that human beings are evolving past our baser emotions and impulses like humour and laughter at the expense of others' feelings.

 

[Greg White]

In general, things cross the line into bullying when it starts being mean-spirited. When your actual intent is the belittle and degrade the other person, you've crossed the line.

The only real gray area I can think of would be jabs to motivate someone to do better, especially if taken too far.

If we're talking comedy in the sense of comedians, nobody really cares because a mean-spirited comedian isn't a very funny one.

That said, thick skin will serve most people well if they're constantly being offended by every little thing.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

When you do it repeatedly, knowing the offence you're causing...?

Bullying is both a term I despise and a term that I don't think is applicable here. The video is clearly humour, whether or not it offended people, and quite frankly, I think if you're going to tape water containers to your shins and call yourself Megaman, you should be ready to take a bit of criticism. I think it's pretty hard to distinguish when poking fun at a group of people will be taken well and when it won't. I, for one, regularly laugh at the expense of religious people whose beliefs are quoted time and time again to show how stupid they are. It's the same thing with cosplay. If you do something ridiculous, you should understand if you're ridiculed. I'm not saying I support it, or that I would do it, just that everything she said was understandable or exaggerated for comic effect.

That said, yes, it probably reflects better on the critic if they're not being a dick about it. Doesn't mean they can't say what they think.

 

[Flatfrog]

I just want to mention something, that has to do with bullying (and also discrimination/any of the various "isms").

YOUR INTENT DOESN'T MATTER. DOES. NOT. MATTER. I someone is still hurt by your words, it doesn't matter if you meant them only as a joke, that hurt is still there.

No, that's just wrong. Bullying by definition implies intent. In my kids' school they are taught an acronym for bullying: STOP = Several Times On Purpose. So being mean to someone is not bullying, and hurting someone's feelings is also not bullying. It becomes bullying when you keep doing it intentionally to hurt.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Ok, I don't get it, is this for real? Are we seriously that insanely sensitive now?

Look, it doesn't matter what jokes you crack, someone, somewhere, at some time, will be offended...always. If we've gotten to the point where a guy strapping water jugs to his shins and declaring that he's Megaman, or a guy with facial hair who weighs at least 250 pounds dressing up like a female character who looks like she has a 21 inch waist, can't be given a light verbal jab, then I give up.

I think you're oversimplifying things a bit, but to clarify: this thread isn't supposed to be about light joviality or harmless fun and it's also not specifically about the top 5 video- although, as I said, I did find that feature to inappropriate for a number of reasons. This thread is an honest query about what other escapists do and do not believe constitutes bullying.

I think it's okay if you don't have a problem with the video- that's your right as an individual but the fact that others do, and that they have opinions that differ from yours, doesn't mean that they are wrong, or stupid. Personally, I think it means that human beings are evolving past our baser emotions and impulses like humour and laughter at the expense of others' feelings.

But the problem doesn't just stem from what do we think as giving jokes, but what does the other person getting the joke; in other words it's perception. I mean people were offended by George Carlin and was seen as "going to far" in what was a tasteful joke, but now he is seen as a legend. I was listening to the Comedy Button when they were making fat jokes in general in one episode (didn't point anyone out, unless it was one of the guys on the show who was fat at one point) and people were offended just at the thought of making fat jokes and wrote in. Where they going to far, after all they didn't call anyone out but the fact someone got mad means they went to far (Hell I'm fat and I thought they were freaking funny as hell, but there goes the whole perception thing). South Park depending on who you ask goes too far, or is brilliant satire on the subject matter.

The problem is with this discussion is that you can't dictate what is funny or not funny to anyone but yourself. I thought the video that started rage wasn't funny not because it was "mean" but because the jokes were lame. ZP can make fun of the stuff I love and it's still a damn good laugh, hell my favorite episodes are the games I loved and enjoyed. But again perception, you might think ZP ragging on what you like isn't funny or his insults aren't funny.

And don't forget the commentators here; if there is a news story about what a guy/women said that people didn't like they will hurl so many insults at the guy/women who made the headlines (or hell attack the writer of the story).

So honestly I think people are two-faced, claiming one went to far while doing the same thing if not worse.

In the end this discussion on "going to far" is stupid, because if you make a joke about X someone somewhere will stand up and complain about how that joke about X isn't funny. You can't please everyone with humor.

 

[fibchopkin]

I'm not saying just because one person doing it doesn't make it OK, but I think there is a difference in what happen between this and Jennifer Heppler(Or anyone who has a counter point on gaming, because people will threaten lives over that stuff or sling slurs and stuff and NOT for jokes but to hurt).

No, I think you're right- this video isn't even close to as horrifying as the Heppler situation. I simply brought it up because the same justifications were used in that clear instance of bullying as are being used here. Namely the "What did she/ they expect?" I just can't wrap my head around that in a way that makes it a viable excuse for pretty much anything.

Honestly Zero Punctuation has harsh jokes and no one bats a eye at him. Mostly because I guess this video had real people, but then does that mean if she didn't show the pictures would it be ok?

Good point. I've laughed at Yhatzee's raunchy humour a million times- and never considered that it might be hurting someone's feelings. I think the difference is that "Yahtzee" is a contrived persona developed expressly for an online internet game critic, and the Top 5 is a show meant for purely light-hearted entertainment and hosted by a perky gamer who presents herself as "one of us." Showing a picture of a fellow nerd and then using that picture to publicly shame them is what does it, I think. I also think if you present your opinions and criticisms directly to someone who has invited such behaviour by publishing a book or something similar, and then provide a medium for debate and discussion, it's a very different thing from posting a video, pointing your finger, and saying "Haha! Look at that geek!" Then showing a picture of a young woman with a perfect body in a beautifully made and expensive costume and saying "THIS is how you do it, dummy!"

I mean does Anderson Cooper go to far when he does the ridiculous and laugh at people for being stupid, I mean he was pretty much laughing at how absurd a mother was for giving her child coffee starting at 9 months old and gives her sugar pixie sticks and soda in one drink saying "Juice has just as much sugar so why not give her that". I mean he was kinda laughing at her logic and had her in that segment to highlight how stupid she was. So did he cross the line? I ask because this isn't a forum troll, or a internet famous person this is a while known and popular news reporter.

I think this falls into a different category entirely, the woman in question was neglecting the health of her child. She also agreed to come on national television, knowing full well that the interviewer had a negative and derogatory opinion of her mothering skills.

Do I think the Cooper interview helped the situation? No. I think the woman got defensive and angry because she was confronted and ridiculed. As a mother, I feel nauseous at the idea of a baby being pumped full of caffeine and sugar, especially since I'm a neurotic nut and don't even feed my own kid red meat or any type of processed food. However, I think that the appropriate response in cases where parents engage in questionable, though not technically abusive behaviour, is education and monitoring, and if the situation doesn't improve, the eventual removal of the child from the harmful situation. But I digress- the point is, I don't believe that honest confrontation, even if it is somewhat condescending and hostile, is same thing as bullying.

As an aside: I'm having a lot of fun debating with you. It's so rare for someone to have a different opinion and be able to express it rationally over a forum.

 

[michael87cn]

If you're making ANY sort of comment about someone else in front of that person and you know that it's negative, you are entertaining yourself at someone elses expense (bullying).

It's rude to talk to someone about one of their faults. Or to assume they have some kind of fault. Or to assume they're going to make some kind of fault happen in the future, etc. etc. And in this regard I wish a lot of people would kindly learn to keep their mouth shut.

The smallest joke or comment (from your perspective) can spark amazingly violent and angry thoughts in someone else, because it hurts them, maybe their pride, their ego, their image of themselves even. You may not mean it that way but it can happen, and you know how you can prevent it? By kindly shutting the fuck up and keeping your witty one liners to yourself, thank you very much.

You may even find yourself not getting beat up for mouthing off. Or getting someone really pissed off, basically.

I find this to be mostly foolishness that comes with people being young.

Of course, joke around with your friends all you want but you need to be wise enough to realize that's not how the real world works, that's how your little inner circle works. Leave the two separate and you'll be fine.

Edit: Oh, and of course, people on the internets will be asses at all ages, because well, immunity to repercussion.

 

[Stu35]

Ok, I don't get it, is this for real? Are we seriously that insanely sensitive now?

This.

I just watched the video, and I honestly am not sure where this "line" is meant to have been crossed.


For me, Bullying is something that happens in school or, occasionally the workplace - it's in a situation that you're forced to go to day after day and face the same kind of abuse.

Even then, I work in an environment where 'banter' is ubiquitous and constantly crosses what the OP would undoubtedly say "crosses the line" (in fact, if subject to it, the OP would probably kill themselves, based on what their idea of 'crossing the line' is).

So, yeah, to me, bullying is something that usually happens to children, usually at the hands of larger groups of children - occasionally it happens in the workplace in the event of a person in authority using that authority improperly.

Everything else? Fair game. If you don't like someone making videos taking the piss out of your ridiculous costume choices, don't go out in public in your ridiculous costume choices. Freedom of expression works both ways - feel free to dress like a 'tard, expect others to feel free to take the piss out of it.

 

[michael87cn]

Violence begets more violence Stu35. I stand by my position that you're all better off if you just keep your thoughts to yourselves.

 

[fibchopkin]

Even then, I work in an environment where 'banter' is ubiquitous and constantly crosses what the OP would undoubtedly say "crosses the line" (in fact, if subject to it, the OP would probably kill themselves, based on what their idea of 'crossing the line' is).


Everything else? Fair game. If you don't like someone making videos taking the piss out of your ridiculous costume choices, don't go out in public in your ridiculous costume choices. Freedom of expression works both ways - feel free to dress like a 'tard, expect others to feel free to take the piss out of it.

What an ugly thing to say- and to assume. I've been through a lot, I can't imagine that I'd resort to self termination over work place insults, but who knows? You seem almost gleeful at the thought, and that's sad. I certainly don't wish you, or anyone else for that matter, any harm. I hope something positive and wonderful happens in your life that makes you less prone to make such nasty comments to strangers on the internet.

Also- You seem very hostile, and I imagine that if you had a sibling, or a child with Downs or Autism, you'd probably refrain from using the expression "dress like a tard." It's mean, and inaccurate.

 

[Stu35]

Even then, I work in an environment where 'banter' is ubiquitous and constantly crosses what the OP would undoubtedly say "crosses the line" (in fact, if subject to it, the OP would probably kill themselves, based on what their idea of 'crossing the line' is).


Everything else? Fair game. If you don't like someone making videos taking the piss out of your ridiculous costume choices, don't go out in public in your ridiculous costume choices. Freedom of expression works both ways - feel free to dress like a 'tard, expect others to feel free to take the piss out of it.

What an ugly thing to say- and to assume. I've been through a lot, I can't imagine that I'd resort to self termination over work place insults, but who knows? You seem almost gleeful at the thought,

Do I?

In a text based medium with no real emotion conveyed? I don't think I do. I think you kinda wish I did, because it helps you pain this monstrous picture of me you've got in your head.

As it is, that particular comment was fairly tongue-in-cheek - as indeed are most of my comments on this forum, again something difficult to convey via text, but I write very much the way I speak.

and that's sad. I certainly don't wish you, or anyone else for that matter, any harm. I hope something positive and wonderful happens in your life that makes you less prone to make such nasty comments to strangers on the internet.

Awwww, what a lovely thought, I'll certainly go away and think about how I treat other people now, and be a better person for it.


(sarcasm).

Also- You seem very hostile, and I imagine that if you had a sibling, or a child with Downs or Autism, you'd probably refrain from using the expression "dress like a tard." It's mean, and inaccurate.

I have a brother who has learning difficulties, and in my younger days I used to work in a school for those with learning difficulties. It does not prevent me from using the expression 'dress like a tard'.

See, I can seperate the feelings employed in language used to make fun of people in ridiculous costumes, and my actual feelings and language employed for those with real problems.

Word of advice - never watch a Comedian called Frankie Boyle, you'd hate him.

In fact, just don't watch stand up comedy, overall I don't think it's your thing.

 

[fibchopkin]

Awwww, what a lovely thought, I'll certainly go away and think about how I treat other people now, and be a better person for it.


(sarcasm).

My apologies then. I will immediately discontinue any all good thoughts directed towards you and yours. Instead, I'll just say thank you for your opinion, and, again, apologize for pushing you into making defensive and ugly comments to an internet stranger.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

No, I think you're right- this video isn't even close to as horrifying as the Heppler situation. I simply brought it up because the same justifications were used in that clear instance of bullying as are being used here. Namely the "What did she/ they expect?" I just can't wrap my head around that in a way that makes it a viable excuse for pretty much anything.

My take on how they differ is, she was calling out how bad their costumes looked. I know nothing about the Heppler situation but if it's like every other time something like that happened people most likely threatened her, belittle her character, and mocked her as a person. All of this out of rage and to hurt someone, the Lisa video from what I saw (outside of lame jokes) is making fun of the costume itself. I didn't hear her say "oh god this guy costume is so lame, he shouldn't be allowed to dress up as this person", or "we what a fag he can't get the costume right". Just making fun of water jugs strapped to guys foot pretending they are boots(shows he wasn't trying, you can get boots and paint them blue). The show wasn't about cosplayers and what to do, but a list of bad ones (If I want more info one what to do or the life style I'll ask a friend or listen to pop stuff where they talk about it in one episode were one of the ladies is a costume designer that sometimes does cosplay stuff I believe).

Good point. I've laughed at Yhatzee's raunchy humour a million times- and never considered that it might be hurting someone's feelings. I think the difference is that "Yahtzee" is a contrived persona developed expressly for an online internet game critic, and the Top 5 is a show meant for purely light-hearted entertainment and hosted by a perky gamer who presents herself as "one of us." Showing a picture of a fellow nerd and then using that picture to publicly shame them is what does it, I think. I also think if you present your opinions and criticisms directly to someone who has invited such behaviour by publishing a book or something similar, and then provide a medium for debate and discussion, it's a very different thing from posting a video, pointing your finger, and saying "Haha! Look at that geek!" Then showing a picture of a young woman with a perfect body in a beautifully made and expensive costume and saying "THIS is how you do it, dummy!"

...They are geeks. I'm a geek, my friends are geeks. Geek isn't an insulting term like it used to be anymore.

Problem is, I think your thinking you can present criticisms and not make someone mad. That isn't not true, someone will get mad that you would even think to say anything bad about what they did, helpful or not. And honestly sometimes a harsher criticism sinks in more so then a kinder one. I mean I had a professor who was harsh in his criticisms about our tests, and it pushed me to go forward (granted this is me and not the world). But you can't always pussy foot around something, sometimes it needs to be harsh. And I also think if your willing to present yourself at a con in costume your're pretty much opening your attention to yourself, good or bad so you might as well take the lumps. I mean there is a joke that just normal con-goers smell like hot trash because they don't shower. It's not always true, but that is a joke people have about nerd cons. Also I think you missed the point of the cat girl one she mentioned where she even said "This is not about body type but how ratty the costume looked", she even showed one of a "normal" girl in that style of outfit and said it looked bad. She only showed the last one and said how it looks like the "bra won't fall off". And I think your trying to take it to a body image issue now, when she said it was to avoid that complaint. And even then not all of them were fat, but all of them had bad costumes.

I think this falls into a different category entirely, the woman in question was neglecting the health of her child. She also agreed to come on national television, knowing full well that the interviewer had a negative and derogatory opinion of her mothering skills.

Do I think the Cooper interview helped the situation? No. I think the woman got defensive and angry because she was confronted and ridiculed. As a mother, I feel nauseous at the idea of a baby being pumped full of caffeine and sugar, especially since I'm a neurotic nut and don't even feed my own kid red meat or any type of processed food. However, I think that the appropriate response in cases where parents engage in questionable, though not technically abusive behaviour, is education and monitoring, and if the situation doesn't improve, the eventual removal of the child from the harmful situation. But I digress- the point is, I don't believe that honest confrontation, even if it is somewhat condescending and hostile, is same thing as bullying.

As an aside: I'm having a lot of fun debating with you. It's so rare for someone to have a different opinion and be able to express it rationally over a forum.

First off thanks. Second off, so how does that make a cosplayer any different(Note I'm not talking about her skills as a mother, just Cooper making jokes about her skills so lets not get into that. Also he didn't interview her, he pulled clips from toddler and tiara where she put herself out there for the world to see. So there is no defense from Cooper and his jokes)? Cosplayers get requested so many times for photos and asked questions that there is even "etiquette" on how to talk to them and ask for photos. They are pretty much saying "I am out and about and I stand out from everyone else and will catch their attention". And those guys in the video were posing for shots, meaning they were publicly displaying their work and requested for photos taken. And it was terrible work. And I wouldn't be surprised if they did it that bad on purpose to get noticed, because someone on one extreme or the other sticks out more so then down the road.

Now I have been bullied, I've been told I'm not "black" because of my taste in music and clothing. Being told as a person that you don't fit the race of "black" by your own peers because of your choices is not the same as being told your costume is terrible. They didn't say my clothes weren't cool or anything like that, they said "as a person you do not fit the mold of what we feel is 'black'", what she was saying is "You guys have terrible costumes". I didn't get a hint of anything beyond that honestly. Now if she said "You guys aren't true fans, or geeks" then yeah she is going a bit far.

And you can never criticize someone and they not get hurt on some level.

 

[zefichan]

It's about power, actually. Guys making jokes about rape are always assholes, as simple as that.

Intent isn't what matters, either. If I flail around and hit you in the face, you'll still get angry and I'm still an idiot for doing that, even if I didn't intendo.

Why are you guys always so quick to excuse it when stuff hits other people? You wouldn't do this on things affecting you.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

It's about power, actually. Guys making jokes about rape are always assholes, as simple as that.

Intent isn't what matters, either. If I flail around and hit you in the face, you'll still get angry and I'm still an idiot for doing that, even if I didn't intendo.

Why are you guys always so quick to excuse it when stuff hits other people? You wouldn't do this on things affecting you.

No I would do what I did in high school and ignore it(Hey I'm not "black" but I sure as hell doing better then them), and since you mentioned rape jokes lets listen to a new famous comedian known for his great insight and jokes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwMukKqx-Os

 

[fibchopkin]

Problem is, I think your thinking you can present criticisms and not make someone mad. That isn't not true, someone will get mad that you would even think to say anything bad about what they did, helpful or not. And honestly sometimes a harsher criticism sinks in more so then a kinder one. I mean I had a professor who was harsh in his criticisms about our tests, and it pushed me to go forward (granted this is me and not the world). But you can't always pussy foot around something, sometimes it needs to be harsh. And I also think if your willing to present yourself at a con in costume your're pretty much opening your attention to yourself, good or bad so you might as well take the lumps. I mean there is a joke that just normal con-goers smell like hot trash because they don't shower. It's not always true, but that is a joke people have about nerd cons. Also I think you missed the point of the cat girl one she mentioned where she even said "This is not about body type but how ratty the costume looked", she even showed one of a "normal" girl in that style of outfit and said it looked bad. She only showed the last one and said how it looks like the "bra won't fall off". And I think your trying to take it to a body image issue now, when she said it was to avoid that complaint. And even then not all of them were fat, but all of them had bad costumes.

Well, here we definitely disagree. I think most rational adults are capable of accepting constructive criticism from professionals. Ms Foiles is a top 5 host, not a critic, and she presented these costumes as bad on a top 5 internet show, not a web-based critique. I think that she may have said "This is not about body types..." but when she went on to make jokes about the "Sailor size of the Moon" ( a man who was clearly being ironic) and show us images of "good" cosplay that consisted entirely of thin young people dressed in very expensive looking components, her words rang very false.

In any case, this debate has ceased to bear fruit. It's been good, but I didn't create this thread to analyze the Top 5, so I'm going to bow out now.

Nice chatting with you.

 

[BoredRolePlayer]

Problem is, I think your thinking you can present criticisms and not make someone mad. That isn't not true, someone will get mad that you would even think to say anything bad about what they did, helpful or not. And honestly sometimes a harsher criticism sinks in more so then a kinder one. I mean I had a professor who was harsh in his criticisms about our tests, and it pushed me to go forward (granted this is me and not the world). But you can't always pussy foot around something, sometimes it needs to be harsh. And I also think if your willing to present yourself at a con in costume your're pretty much opening your attention to yourself, good or bad so you might as well take the lumps. I mean there is a joke that just normal con-goers smell like hot trash because they don't shower. It's not always true, but that is a joke people have about nerd cons. Also I think you missed the point of the cat girl one she mentioned where she even said "This is not about body type but how ratty the costume looked", she even showed one of a "normal" girl in that style of outfit and said it looked bad. She only showed the last one and said how it looks like the "bra won't fall off". And I think your trying to take it to a body image issue now, when she said it was to avoid that complaint. And even then not all of them were fat, but all of them had bad costumes.

Well, here we definitely disagree. I think most rational adults are capable of accepting constructive criticism from professionals. Ms Foiles is a top 5 host, not a critic, and she presented these costumes as bad on a top 5 internet show, not a web-based critique. I think that she may have said "This is not about body types..." but when she went on to make jokes about the "Sailor size of the Moon" ( a man who was clearly being ironic) and show us images of "good" cosplay that consisted entirely of thin young people dressed in very expensive looking components, her words rang very false.

In any case, this debate has ceased to bear fruit. It's been good, but I didn't create this thread to analyze the Top 5, so I'm going to bow out now.

Nice chatting with you.

I agree this debate is going no where (but honestly you used her video as a jumping off point for what is crossing the line topic so I see it as fair game as use for a reason), and in relation to the sailor moon guy...most people don't cosplay outside of what they can and can't do physically(there is a term for people who do, and I can't remember it now). I can't cosplay outside of fullsuit or a black guy if i so chose (and I don't have time for it). And if he was to enter a cosplay contest vs those girls, I promise you he would lose because the costume (and the player) isn't a proper recreation of who they are playing as.

And let me point this out, Movie Bob is a critic yet he went after people who saw the Expendables over Scott Pilgrim and called them all sheeps. He didn't say they could have seen a better movie, he was bitter about the box office results and chewed out anyone who went to see Expendables over Scott Pilgrim. I think he crossed the line with insulting people, because he was angry and went after people he didn't agree with.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

It's about power, actually. Guys making jokes about rape are always assholes, as simple as that.

People who generalise are always assholes.
No? Oh my mistake then...

Intent isn't what matters, either. If I flail around and hit you in the face, you'll still get angry and I'm still an idiot for doing that, even if I didn't intendo.

Sticks and stones...