I tend to follow the Mencia rule. There is no thing that cannot find its way into humor. The question is whether or not the other person can laugh when a joke is still strictly a joke.
Humor: When does comedy cross the line and turn into bullying?
- Thread starter fibchopkin
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Stu35 said:
If you don't like someone making videos taking the piss out of your ridiculous clothing choices/of your ridiculous partner-choosing choice7ridiculous religion/colour/weight/class, don't go out in public in your body. Dont expect people to accept you or have the human decency to just ignore you and dont invade your privacy with unwanted comments/catcalls/slurs/etc. Freedom of expression works both ways - feel free to be like a ________(insert chosen slur against one of your not-liked-group here), expect others to feel free to take the piss out of it.
Yeah. freedom of expression can eb freedom of acting like a mean asshole. Act like if but dont expect to go uncriticized. and dont whine that people will try to take your freedom of being an asshole to others lightly
and to yathzee: i cant remember yathzee attacking persons on a personal level- expect the mailbag-showdown. And there other people started with behaving shitty. One thing of his videos is the cynicism-which isn't directed to people because they are like they are-its mostly directed at a group as a satirical image/representation, eg THE tripe A-industry. (and attacking a group is not as bad as targeting individuals-well except its racism and targeting the group includes telling that the group inst worth of living, subhuman,can and should die because they are bad and dangerous.)
I cant remember him saying Dev. Y from studio X is a fat basterd and sad because of his shittiness and the shitty games he makes. He doesn't takes their photos and makes fun of them.
jim-jeah, cliffy b.
(dunno whether i liked that or not-he criticised him for his policy and behaviour towards customers. and i dont think that its okay to act shitty because "the other people are doing it too. On the other hand that was a thing against one very influential, rich and big man which could have the privilege to ignore that. The peopel on the video often dont have this choice because they WILL get shitty reactions. and fat people get that all the time-so that adds and starts to get really hard i think.)
children. which wasn't cool.
on the other hand chose lisa to take a photo of someone and ridicule it-and the custumes(which ignores that some people have a life to live-and hobby as an addition. maybe they have not the money to buy expensive tickets, train tickets, hotel room and then to have time and money to make great costumes..
That's the Mencia rule?FalloutJack said:
I thought it was "Plagurising other people's jokes is fine as long as you have a TV show and they currently don't."
OT:
Bullying can be comedic.
Anyone seen Parks and Recreation?
How they treat Jerry on that show is certainly bullying, but it's also hilarious.
Like all comedy there really isn't any set rule you can follow, it always depends on the individual situation and context.
Reductio ad absurdum is it? Very well then...firmicute said:
Where does people walking around in public free from any kind of piss taking stop then? When someone walks along in a Nazi uniform carrying an "I hate Niggers" sign.
Or is comment on this situation only allowed if completely serious? Bringing up positives and negatives of freedom expression in sincere debate vis a vis his Nazi fetishism, with any humour poking at his choices strictly left by the wayside lest someone's feelings get hurt?
Once again - In my opinion, anyone can wear whatever the hell they want as far as I'm concerned, but they should not be shocked if other people mock them for going outside the lines of social norms. Now, if people were trying to BAN them from doing it, or bring about actual hatred and discrimination, then that'd be a different matter, and your above absurdum might make a little sense.
As it is, I take the piss out of the Orange fake-tanned tarts who seem to comprise most of Britains female population aged 15-45 these days, I take the piss out of the emo kids I see on the train, the Beiber wannabes I see sat on the next carriage of that train (interestingly, I'm sure both groups equally take the piss out of each other). I take the piss out of my mate at work who seems to think the blokes on Geordie shore are positive role models for men in their early 20s, I take the piss out of everyone on this forum (including myself) for the sheer "geek" stereotypes they fall into - Including getting far too invested in arguments with strangers on the internet (this post is a great example).
In short, I have, in my time, taken the piss out of - Everybody and everything. I'm not alone, most humans, in my experience(of which I'm willing to bet 3 imaginary internet dollars I have more than you), like to poke fun at each other. That's life.
When it comes to stopping bullying (which IS a terrible thing), the key is to not try to define whether or not a little light hearted piss taking is in fact, bullying - but to identify the people who are genuinely being singled out to the point that they don't want to go on any more, and put an end to it.
You can't stop bullying by preventing people from mocking others, all you'll do is get the wrong people ostracised as "bullies" and a lot of resources intended for those with actual problems getting sent the wrong way, whilst others start throwing themselves off buildings...
In that way, the thin skinned (or worse - thin skinned on behalf of someone else) kinda irritate the fuck out of me, because they cause that kind of confusion.
TL;DR: Things in this world are fun to take the piss out of. You should try it some time, you might find life a little more enjoyable.
Also, Fat Sailor Moon guy has the self confidence to go out of the house in a Sailor Moon costume, I'm sure he can take a bit of ribbing on the internet, and doesn't need you to stand up for him.
Pffft...critics.Smeatza said:
That's the trouble with people sometimes. Always gotta take things personally.
Oh, and then there's this...
Words to live by!
It's easy to defend jokes when you aren't personally affected by them. Would you people carry that same attitude when you take one that hits especially deep? I very much doubt it.
It definitely is not as simple as 'don't be so thin-skinned, every joke can be funny' as some here are making it out to be.
It definitely is not as simple as 'don't be so thin-skinned, every joke can be funny' as some here are making it out to be.
I didn't really find it funny (not because of the bullying thing, I don't mind that) it was just not good, in all fairness I hadn't watched it until I saw this OP.
Anyhow, I think bullying begins when someone else directly affected is offended. Unless you are one of the cosplayers she criticized what the fuck is everyone complaining about? Have we really reached a point in society when we are THIS easy to offend? On the internet? Seriously?
Anyhow, I think bullying begins when someone else directly affected is offended. Unless you are one of the cosplayers she criticized what the fuck is everyone complaining about? Have we really reached a point in society when we are THIS easy to offend? On the internet? Seriously?
Comedy never crosses a line and turns into bullying because comedy and bullying and two different things. Because someone might find something comedic to be offensive does not suddenly mean that said comedic thing counts as bullying.
If a person really thinks that a video pointing out shitty cosplay counts as bullying then that person really needs to take the stick out of their ass and use it to scrape the sand out of their vagina.
If a person really thinks that a video pointing out shitty cosplay counts as bullying then that person really needs to take the stick out of their ass and use it to scrape the sand out of their vagina.
I have heard jokes that "hit especially deep". The solution?Mr Cwtchy said:
1: If you don't like a joke on TV, change the channel.
2: If you don't like a joke on the radio, change the station.
3: If you don't like a joke on an internet video, close the browser.
4: If you don't like a joke that someone says to your face? Walk away or stand up for yourself.
In other words, act like an adult.
And since everyone has a different sense of humor and the freedom to decide for themselves what they think is "funny", then yes, in fact, every joke can be funny.
I think bullying is BS...as long as it isn't physical. I still believe in freedom of speech. I don't care who doesn't like it we should not be trying to limit speech. I have two daughters... and I make sure they know... no matter who you are..there are going to be people out there who do not like or try to talk crap about you. EVERYONE. Just tell them to go F themselves. Granted...my oldest is only 6 so it wasn't worded exactly like that. Its getting to the point you can't criticize someone for stupidity b/c now you are 'bullying" them.
When does comedy cross the line and turn into bullying? I was going to go to say this is a tough subject, but then I started to define what bullying is to me. It became real easy.
For me, bullying is a repeated offense to someone. And comedy doesn't usually cross into the repeated zone very much. If you told me a funny joke, I'll laugh a lot. You tell me the same joke a second time, I'll only laugh a little. The third time, I'll look at you like you're fucking retarded.
Say a stand up comedian at a club makes fun of an audience member multiple times during a show, I wouldn't call it bullying. But if that audience member's friends started bringing up the same joke everyday for the next few days, that's bullying.
I don't think any topic should be specifically ignored in comedy because I think anything can be made light of. You'll hear how comedians get their best material from the darkest times in their lives and I believe it.
For me, bullying is a repeated offense to someone. And comedy doesn't usually cross into the repeated zone very much. If you told me a funny joke, I'll laugh a lot. You tell me the same joke a second time, I'll only laugh a little. The third time, I'll look at you like you're fucking retarded.
Say a stand up comedian at a club makes fun of an audience member multiple times during a show, I wouldn't call it bullying. But if that audience member's friends started bringing up the same joke everyday for the next few days, that's bullying.
I don't think any topic should be specifically ignored in comedy because I think anything can be made light of. You'll hear how comedians get their best material from the darkest times in their lives and I believe it.
The way I see it, the purpose of comedy is to get people to laugh. Granted, you can get people to laugh about anything, but, as George Carlin said, it's all in how you joke about it. If your joke causes harm, regardless of intent, then you didn't do your job as a comedian. You didn't properly read your audience and as a result, your comedy was selfish and alienating. That's just being a bad comedian.
Being rude and bullying are not the same thing. Bullying requires harassment, which in itself requires constantly working to make someone miserable. I'm saying this as a guy who had people try to literally stab him with knives and had to fear getting jumped on the way home in elementary school. Not trying to attention whore, but I'd say I know a thing or two on bullying.
The notion that being mean to someone is the same as bullying is something that gets under my skin greatly, as in my opinion it leaves people and kids in particular with the notion that not only must everyone like them, but that they shouldn't be criticized. People need to learn how to deal with people not liking them and even being complete assholes to them in a civilized manner, as well as understanding that they do NOT have the right to not be offended - which is what the notion of "bullying" is seeming to become. There's a huge difference between someone making a lone joke about you and someone going out of their way to make you suffer and / or afraid as much as possible.
The notion that being mean to someone is the same as bullying is something that gets under my skin greatly, as in my opinion it leaves people and kids in particular with the notion that not only must everyone like them, but that they shouldn't be criticized. People need to learn how to deal with people not liking them and even being complete assholes to them in a civilized manner, as well as understanding that they do NOT have the right to not be offended - which is what the notion of "bullying" is seeming to become. There's a huge difference between someone making a lone joke about you and someone going out of their way to make you suffer and / or afraid as much as possible.
I'm of two minds on this.
On one hand, I understand what it's like to be bullied for looking, acting, dressing and just in general being different. And while I can't pretend I'm immune from a little bit of us vs them snobbery of my own (eg: Juggalos) I'd like to think that I don't go out of my way to find and belittle anyone because they don't happen to fall into the same social class/circle as me and mine.
On the other hand, I understand that as soon as anyone produces a creative work and puts it out into the public, they have essentially given up the right to not have their work criticized.
I think where the difference lies is that most of us more or less know the difference between the skills of a professional or experienced artist/musician/writer/underwater basket weaver and the skills of a beginner or amateur. We can take that lack of experience into consideration and cut them some slack for having skills that may not be quite up to snuff and tailor our critique accordingly (whether the artist chooses to accept it gracefully is another matter.)
Where this spills over into bullying is when the critic in question goes out of their way to ridicule and demean the content creator in a manner in which they have no way of defending themselves or in a situation where attempting to defend themselves would serve no purpose beyond fanning the flames and inviting further ridicule.
On one hand, I understand what it's like to be bullied for looking, acting, dressing and just in general being different. And while I can't pretend I'm immune from a little bit of us vs them snobbery of my own (eg: Juggalos) I'd like to think that I don't go out of my way to find and belittle anyone because they don't happen to fall into the same social class/circle as me and mine.
On the other hand, I understand that as soon as anyone produces a creative work and puts it out into the public, they have essentially given up the right to not have their work criticized.
I think where the difference lies is that most of us more or less know the difference between the skills of a professional or experienced artist/musician/writer/underwater basket weaver and the skills of a beginner or amateur. We can take that lack of experience into consideration and cut them some slack for having skills that may not be quite up to snuff and tailor our critique accordingly (whether the artist chooses to accept it gracefully is another matter.)
Where this spills over into bullying is when the critic in question goes out of their way to ridicule and demean the content creator in a manner in which they have no way of defending themselves or in a situation where attempting to defend themselves would serve no purpose beyond fanning the flames and inviting further ridicule.
ding ding ding, got it in one, at least in my opinion, it is not comedy or humor when it is intended to be hurtful, rather then funny.Glongpre said:
comedy can be at a persons expense, it can be "insulting" but aslong as its good natured its fine by me.
that said i have rather thick skin and have visited 4chan on occasion, it is very hard to offend me.
Ninja-ing me again!thaluikhain said:
I think that this is the primary one, for me at least - that's why, say, Frankie Boyle's stuff about politicians is generally ok (not really my thing, but tolerable), whereas taking the piss out of a kid with downs syndrome isn't.
The material for bother are pretty equally scathing and OTT, it's the target that matters.
I'd also expand on that and say that expectation of reciprocity is a factor. Whether two comedians roasting each other, or a comedian taking on a heckler - both entail jibes flying both ways.
When you're lambasting someone who lacks the means to reply (either because of social standing or something else), that crosses the line.
You can apply that across the board come to think of it; whether it's a bully flushing a smaller kid's head down the bog, or 4chan going raiding against a single individual.
I don't get it.FalloutJack said:
Are you saying that I shouldn't take Carlos Mencia stealing other peoples jokes personally? (which I don't anyway)
Or the comedians that are being plagurised shouldn't take it personally?
Or were you agreeing with me on my main point?