Hybrid Multiplayer Mess

Zom-B

New member
Feb 8, 2011
379
0
0
This article has spurred two points I'd like to make.

#1 has basically been already made in that Demon's Souls has managed to do an innovative single player/multiplayer thing, and do it well.

#2 was that Yahtzee's comments on Mindjack reminded me of another game that I really wanted to like, but obviously didn't have the development dollars to sit at the grown-up's table: Alpha Protocol.

The game is actually pretty decent. The RPG elements are well done and it has conversation trees similar to DA or ME. I think the core of the game gets things right. Unfortunately, Alpha Protocol suffers from very mediocre graphics and, in the case of the protagonist at least, terrible voice acting. For those that haven't suffered through any of AP's gameplay, it's basically an MGS4 style, 3rd person stealth/shooter game. And I think that's where Obsidian made their mistake with this one was trying to replicate an MSG4 style game, when really they should have been shooting for an MSG1/2 style with RPG elements added in.

As Yahtzee says, "it's the fact that developing for PS3 or Xbox is just a shitload of work for a shitload of people with very specific skills." and either Obsidian didn't have the people with the skills or they didn't have the time to do it properly and a really promising game suffered for it.

Honestly, if Alpha Protocol had been designed like, say, Lara Croft and the Guardian of LIght or a similar 3/4 down shooter with the RPG and stealth elements intact, it could have been a really awesome game. Instead, we got a half baked game full of bugs, bad character models and wonky gameplay.

Game development seems to be at an interesting crossroads where we have the AAA titles we'll always have (like Hollywood blockbusters), the social/casual/iphone/facebook gaming branch, high-quality downloadable indie titles and then, the worst of the bunch in many ways, those developers trying for that high quality console title but falling short due to lack of talent or funds and giving us the Mindjacks and the Alpha Protocols.

Personally, I'd love to see more developers recognize their own limitations and build great games within them, rather than overreach and end up putting out failures.
 

Dastardly

Imaginary Friend
Apr 19, 2010
2,420
0
0
Yahtzee Croshaw said:
Extra Punctuation: Hybrid Multiplayer Mess

Yahtzee explains why Mindjack just doesn't work.

Read Full Article
Hybridizing games not only works well when done well, it's also going to become more and more necessary as each individual genre gets stretched to its limits.

Look at TV and literature (used loosely) these days: crossover this, modernized that, genre-bending-and-blending all over the place. Each genre has come down to a handful of troped stories to tell, and only so many unique twists you can put on them, so we're needing to branch out to find something new and interesting.

So it is going, and will continue to go, with video games. Shooters with RPG elements are the go-to now, aren't they? RPGs appropriated puzzle elements long, long ago. This process, like evolution, is going to be lengthy, take a lot of trial-and-error, and present us with some hilarious deformities along the way.

(For every mutant with laser-eyes, there are probably ten or twenty that have useless powers like growing pimples at will or being able to taste through their elbows or having laser-eyes without having laser-proof eyelids...)
 

Zom-B

New member
Feb 8, 2011
379
0
0
Grouchy Imp said:
So the basic proposal at the end there was for a Space Crusade/Space Hulk type of game? Well I suppose a modern reboot couldn't hurt...

Overall though I'm not a fan of crossover/hybrid games, simply because they tend not to include enough of a genre to satisfy the fans of the genres involved. An RPG/FPS game (lets say Fallout 3) doesn't have enough RPG elements to cater to the RPG crowd, and the combat mechanics aren't tight enough to appease the diehard FPS gamer. Compromise just sells both sides of the arguement short.
interesting. i find that the RPG elements of Fallout 3/NV are fairly deep and that the FPS elements were just tacked on. Really, most of your combat should be done using VATS and the only time to play it like a traditional FPS is when you're either saving your AP or you're out of AP. Aside from that, while the RPG elements may not have been as in depth or expansive as the hardest of the hard core RPG players wanted, I don't think anyone purchased either Fallout game (and there were a lot that bought one or both, myself included) that expected any sort of polished or top tier FPS experience.

I understand the point you're making, but I think perhaps Fallout was a poor example.
 

josh797

New member
Nov 20, 2007
866
0
0
yahtzee, the game your describing at the end of the article is called "dungeons". its on steam and its decent from what ive heard
 

Ashcrexl

New member
May 27, 2009
1,416
0
0
Tharwen said:
The server here blocked both of the images in the article under the category "Pornography"...
i would definitely consider the image of yahtzee crouching amongst a yellow background pornography. yet i still subject myself to it week after week. why?
 

Wicky_42

New member
Sep 15, 2008
2,468
0
0
Sgt. Dante said:
You might be interested in trying this half-life 2 mod.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/90047/?snr=1_7_7_230_150_1

It's called Zombie Master, and it's basically L4D but one player in the lobby is rendomly decided to be the AI Director.

Unfortunately development stopped a few years back but the code is open source so perhaps some budding young development team could take it and work on it some more?
Yeah, that was the first thing that occurred to me, very similar to the principle Yahtzee thought up. I guess he was ninja'd ;)
 

zaro27

New member
Apr 15, 2009
80
0
0
http://www.moddb.com/mods/Overwatch

It's an HL2 mod in the same vein as Zombie Master, but more fun. I highly recommend everyone try it!
 

hyker

New member
Feb 2, 2010
143
0
0
well, actually there's a half-life 2 mod called Zombie Master which's point is that there's the survivor team controlling the..well... survivors and there's one man who is the zombie master, and drops diferrent kinds of zombies (fast, strong, ranged etc.) from an rts perspective and the survivors have to get to the end of the map, while the zombie master needs to kill them.

it's a mod, made by like, i dunno, 3-4 modders and they've dropped support for it, so it's repetetive,unbalanced and most of the maps are boring, but I had quite of fun for about a week, so with some developer polish, maybe it could be made to a quality game

Actually, looking at mods and free games could be a good way of developers to get a new idea

Edit: okay, it's already mentioned, better read the thread first and then post next time...
 

dunnace

New member
Oct 10, 2008
267
0
0
I like the game idea but... isn't that really not much dev time? No AI of any significance, no need to design levels just a randomiser, and the points system while difficult to reason how you'd award the director with points (hits on the player?) would be simple. In fact, you aren't designing a game, just a sort of multiplayer engine mod.
 

GonzoGamer

New member
Apr 9, 2008
7,063
0
0
Novur said:
I would buy that game in a heartbeat.

Hear that, developers? I will buy this game.
I think Yahtzee should become a developer. I love his reviews but he's got some really great game ideas as well. This latest one could be really big.

Hear that Yahtzee, if you're looking for investors for a dev studio, let me know. Let me know quick before I change my mind. I never invest in game companies but your ideas don't sound very risky: rather cheap & brilliant actually.
 

HentMas

The Loneliest Jedi
Apr 17, 2009
2,650
0
0
Of course, this definitely wouldn't work as a triple-A game, but just as a fun little downloadable indie thing. Which is just as well, because if it were triple-A the publisher wouldn't release it until we worked in some quick time events and got Nolan North to voice a wacky sidekick.
yes... oh dear god yes, why does every developer and its dog have to HAVE things others had??

seriously, I remember AC:Brotherhood when the first thing you are shown is a battle, cannon fire spreading left and right!! EVERYTHING looks AMAZING, you see the assasin jump and "QTE!!!!!"

i almost dropped the controller!!

and then.. Nolan North... hahahahaha

the qte didnt even helped, and as the Unskippable bunch said "so what, if i failed the qte it would have being game over right there???"

yeah...
 

jmarquiso

New member
Nov 21, 2009
513
0
0
On the video game idea - check out some mods.

Half-Life 2 Mod called "Overwatch" is exactly that. One places things and makes combine and headcrabs show up while the other four players act as resistance.

Natural Selection 2 should be something like what he's talking about as well.
 

York_Beckett

New member
Sep 23, 2010
288
0
0
His idea actually sounds very appealing. I don't think I've ever seen a survival-horror game done in that kind of way (unless you count Maze Action, which wasn't survival-horror or any good), and mixing that kind of multiplayer genre with something in the style of, say Amnesia or Call of Cthulhu, could be great fun.

Also, I have played Mindjack now. I didn't even bother looking into the multiplayer part (mainly because my Xbox isn't hooked up to the internet), but you know what? As a simple, mindless sci-fi shooter (no pun intended there), it wasn't that bad. In small doses at a time, I actually had some good fun with it. While it wasn't the Damnation kind of quality where the game is so bad it ends up being more awesome than most big-name titles on the market, I did actually enjoy it for what it was. Then again, I went into the game with zero expectations.
 

Supp

New member
Nov 17, 2009
210
0
0
Games like this exist in droves as WC3 (and presumably SC2) custom maps. The usual problem they have is that maybe one or two players with an idea of what's effective can absolutely destroy the other players.