Hybrid Multiplayer Mess

[GeneticallyModifiedDucks]

I really wish Yahtzee played enough Demon's Souls to get to a point where he'd be invaded. If he hated the hybrid format of multiplayer in Mindjack I can't even imagine how much he'd hate having someone raid his world and kick his ass right before the boss in Demon's Souls, sending all the way back to the start yet again.

From the sound of things in the review, he was dying too much to have to worry about that one.
I do too. Honestly I don't know why I bother suiciding in the Nexus after every boss, I'm just going to die anyway. But whatever it takes to keep other players from coming in uninvited and ruining my game.

Or you can avoid the problems by simply not logging into PSN. All the trophies can be collected offline, so by staying online you're basically asking to be invaded. Oh sure, you'll lose the messages on the ground and the bloodstains but that's a small price to pay as far as I'm concerned.

OT: I have two things to comment on. First of all, great article. And second:

the release of generic mediocrities like Mindjack

Are you praising the game, Yahtzee?

 

[StriderShinryu]

I do wonder why the horror genre hasn't experienced more multiplayer as it does seem a near perfect fit. Heck, the blending of stealth and momentary action in AC:B is almost a horror game multiplayer template already, all it needs is to be reskinned. Of course, this, just as with AC:B, would rely on players playing the game properly to begin with so it may not be worth the bother.

 

[random_bars]

Interesting article but I can't help but feel that basing your game's design by genre is needlessly restricting yourself. If it's fun, if it's a good game, it really shouldn't matter where it fits into currently established genres.

Also Brutal Legend's gameplay was badly explained, not badly designed. It actually worked very fluidly once you got over the initial spike of the learning curve.

 

[KlokwerkSolja]

Right, ok so you think; that if the developers cut down on production values and spent a little longer on actually designing the thing that they would actually make innovative AAA titles rather than attributing AAA quality to having the most refined nick-naks, okay doke.

Personally Im inclined to call Minecraft AAA meself. Its not got a realistic physics engine, but it does do something which is more or less otherwise impossible in a way which is easy for the average anthropoid to get into their heads.

Quality is not defined by HD graphics, but by the concept of the design, like a car which uses less fuel, produces little noise and goes fast but doesn?t look like something you?d ever actually drive. Serves the purpose, but isn?t astatically pleasing like.

/Two pennies

 

[Lucane]

Someone start a Facebook campaign for the video game idea proposed at the end there. Facebook's the only way things get done these days.

And I still think its evil... but an interesting idea, just like the RTS/FPS hybrid idea.

Reminds me of an old PS1 or PS2 game where you set up traps in advance of the AI showing up and you needing to lead them around 1 of 3 types to injure/kill them with no direct combat from you but the AI could be knights, thieves or crossbowman etc. making you need to be versatile.

 

[GothmogII]

Interesting article but I can't help but feel that basing your game's design by genre is needlessly restricting yourself. If it's fun, if it's a good game, it really shouldn't matter where it fits into currently established genres.

Also Brutal Legend's gameplay was badly explained, not badly designed. It actually worked very fluidly once you got over the initial spike of the learning curve.

I'm surprised people who've played Brutal Legend never bring up Sacrifice [http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/sacrifice/]. I can only figure it's because it's a long lost Shiny classic doomed along with Giants: Citizen Kabuto and MDK to be forgotten.

All the same, it did the same type of gameplay Brutal Legend tried to do, mixing third-person spellslinging with RTS tactics and building summoning. Not to mention they are stylistically quite similar

Spoiler

Spoiler

The only thing Brutal Legend does different gameplay wise is add meleé combat for the player character and the ability to upgrade your units (Though -how- you cast spells in Brutal Legend is a very nice touch that I enjoyed immensely). That and brutally (heh) force what is essentially one game long escort quest ontop of us. Good thing the cast and humor mostly make up for its failings.

To continue the refutations, an FPS/RTS hybrid that worked: Battlezone. Not the original mind you, but the almost completely unrelated Activision Battlezone for the PC, you know, before they went all evil. You start of most missions as a commander piloting your hovertank but are able to give orders to other units, set up buildings, build defenses and units and harvest resources. All in first person. And, you can even jump out of (or eject if the need arises) your tank and snipe an enemy vehicle or call a friendly unit to pick you up. What's interesting is that the true base building elements don't actually come in to play until much later in the game, and your initial buildings for most missions are actually large specialised vehicles themselves that need to be docked on geothermal vents in order to start producing units and weapons.

I really wish they'd make some more RTS + Something else hybrids, because they can work.

 

[Formica Archonis]

The balance of power idea between tradition heroes and traditional villains when both are being played by a player is tricky one. Some board games have done it well, like Descent: Journeys in the Dark [http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/17226/descent-journeys-in-the-dark] in which one player is the evil Overlord and up to four players are the heroes. It balances the four buffed-up heroes against the Overlord's fodder monsters quite well. (Does less well with fewer players, though, it's really optimized for a 5 player game.)

 

[random_bars]

-snip-

I had heard of those games, actually. I guess I just didn't really think enough other people had to make bringing them up worth it. I'm confused though - are you saying Sacrifice and Brutal Legend do the action/RTS thing well or not?

 

[GothmogII]

-snip-

I had heard of those games, actually. I guess I just didn't really think enough other people had to make bringing them up worth it. I'm confused though - are you saying Sacrifice and Brutal Legend do the action/RTS thing well or not?

Sorry...got lost in a sea of nostalgia. But, yes and no: I think Sacrifice did it well. And Brutal Legend did it less well.

 

[random_bars]

Sorry...got lost in a sea of nostalgia. But, yes and no: I think Sacrifice did it well. And Brutal Legend did it less well.

Ah right. Hmm, less well how? I haven't played Sacrifice, but I'd definitely like to once I get a computer that would run it (I'm using a netbook right now). I think Brutal Legend did the genre mix pretty well, though - what's better in Sacrifice?

EDIT: Also you forgot the double teams from the list of differences, which IMO are the most fun part of Brutal Legend. I've heard they're kind of similar to the whole vehicle piloting mechanic you mentioned in Battlezone? Sorry I sound clueless - although I'm interested in these games (Sacrifice and Battlezone), I don't really know much about them.

 

[runedeadthA]

Someone start a Facebook campaign for the video game idea proposed at the end there. Facebook's the only way things get done these days.

And I still think its evil... but an interesting idea, just like the RTS/FPS hybrid idea.

The game your wanting is Zombie Master. An EXCELLENT sourcemod that put a player in control of zombies and traps. Alot of the maps are very well made so the chances of each team winning is about 50/50.

Go download and play it now. If you don't have a PC, buy one, the OJ box and then download it and play it. It is a TON of fun.

Edit: Empires (another sourcemod) also does FPS/RTS cross, But its more like Battlefield 1942 crossed with CnC generals. It is also very good.

 

[AgentNein]

I really wish Yahtzee played enough Demon's Souls to get to a point where he'd be invaded. If he hated the hybrid format of multiplayer in Mindjack I can't even imagine how much he'd hate having someone raid his world and kick his ass right before the boss in Demon's Souls, sending all the way back to the start yet again.

From the sound of things in the review, he was dying too much to have to worry about that one.
I do too. Honestly I don't know why I bother suiciding in the Nexus after every boss, I'm just going to die anyway. But whatever it takes to keep other players from coming in uninvited and ruining my game.

I used to enter other people's games as a black phantom, gain their trust and help them plow through the stage cuz the enemies wouldn't attack me. Good times. We're not all bad!

 

[Blanq]

i haven't ever gotten a chance to play dungeon keeper, but from what i recall the heroes are only AI, so if you could hybridize that where the hero is also a player and the dungeon master was the player, that would be pretty sweet.

 

[rapchee]

that sounds alot like the haunted mod for unreal tournament 3

Or the Zombie Master mod for Source (though I guess both have multiple players against the enemy commander, so they're not quite the same.)

that (http://www.moddb.com/mods/zombie-master) or Overwatch (http://www.moddb.com/mods/Overwatch)

 

[Dooly95]

Natural Selection, anyone?

Okay, not quite, but the idea is similar. Just more team-based than one vs one.

 

[cyrad]

Your idea sounds a lot like Zombie Master, which was a RTS/FPS hybrid where one player summons and controls zombies as well as spending points to trigger traps on the map.

Unfortunately, it suffers from severe balancing issues, which were never resolved as the developers abandoned it.

 

[Jubbert]

Yahtzee should play some HL2 mods like Zombie Master - In that, there's a group of up to 15 survivors that have to run through the maps and accomplish objectives, while 1 player is chosen as the Zombie Master, who gets points for killing the survivors and spawns zombies and activates traps in the map. A lot like the game he described wanting.