Hypothesis Vs. Theory Vs. Law

[Avatar Roku]

I've heard a lot of arguing over the Theory of Evolution lately, with people on both sides being grossly misinformed. The biggest thing I've seen is the "just a theory" argument in regards to evolution. I just want to make this clear; scientific theories are not what we would call theories in every day life. What we would call a theory in every day life is, in science, called a hypothesis. For something to become a Theory, it has to be corroborated many, many times over. Also, a Theory does not become a law. Ever. They are two different things. Namely, a Law describes what happens, whereas a theory describes why it happens. For example:

Law of Gravity: Things fall.
Theory of Gravity: Things fall because...

I'm not trying to start a flamewar here, but this is something that really gets on my nerves. Please do not turn this into a debate on evolution, that is not my intent. I simply want to clear up a common misconception.

 

[iain62a]

It doesn't really make much difference in the discussion really. It's still the same points that people are making.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the mods shouldn't have locked that thread?

 

[Avatar Roku]

It doesn't really make much difference in the discussion really. It's still the same points that people are making.

Also, am I the only one who thinks that the mods shouldn't have locked that thread?

No, they should have. We've had enough of those threads. We probably didn't need this one either, but I couldn't let it go.

 

[Kadamon]

Um... I got quoted at least 6 times, being swamped down by flaming just because I'm trying to believe in something other than... nothing.

Of course it had to be locked, it was ridiculous.

 

[iain62a]

What, so we aren't allowed to discuss controversial topics anymore, in case we offend somebody?

 

[Avatar Roku]

Um... I got quoted at least 6 times, being swamped down by flaming just because I'm trying to believe in something other than... nothing.

Of course it had to be locked, it was ridiculous.

You were one of the people not for evolution, right? I don't know why other people who believe in evolution get so hot under the collar when someone doesn't believe. Sure, I get angry when someone clearly doesn't understand what they're talking about (why I made this thread), but if you understand and choose to believe something else, why get mad?

 

[Kadamon]

Um... I got quoted at least 6 times, being swamped down by flaming just because I'm trying to believe in something other than... nothing.

Of course it had to be locked, it was ridiculous.

You were one of the people not for evolution, right? I don't know why other people who believe in evolution get so hot under the collar when someone doesn't believe. Sure, I get angry when someone clearly doesn't understand what they're talking about (why I made this thread), but if you understand and choose to believe something else, why get mad?

I was against evolution, yes. At least say the name Creationism, saying "Not for" is like being racist or something. (Jk)

People get mad for reasons a bit odd at times. I personally respect the people who believe in evolution, but question as to how it all started in the first place. Something doesn't come from nothing you know.

 

[Avatar Roku]

Um... I got quoted at least 6 times, being swamped down by flaming just because I'm trying to believe in something other than... nothing.

Of course it had to be locked, it was ridiculous.

You were one of the people not for evolution, right? I don't know why other people who believe in evolution get so hot under the collar when someone doesn't believe. Sure, I get angry when someone clearly doesn't understand what they're talking about (why I made this thread), but if you understand and choose to believe something else, why get mad?

I was against evolution, yes. At least say the name Creationism, saying "Not for" is like being racist or something. (Jk)

People get mad for reasons a bit odd at times. I personally respect the people who believe in evolution, but question as to how it all started in the first place. Something doesn't come from nothing you know.

I see what you're saying, but can we end this here? I don't want another evolution debate.

 

[Donbett1974]

Peole like to get others to believe in what they believe to reinforce their own beliefs.

 

[Kadamon]

Um... I got quoted at least 6 times, being swamped down by flaming just because I'm trying to believe in something other than... nothing.

Of course it had to be locked, it was ridiculous.

You were one of the people not for evolution, right? I don't know why other people who believe in evolution get so hot under the collar when someone doesn't believe. Sure, I get angry when someone clearly doesn't understand what they're talking about (why I made this thread), but if you understand and choose to believe something else, why get mad?

I was against evolution, yes. At least say the name Creationism, saying "Not for" is like being racist or something. (Jk)

People get mad for reasons a bit odd at times. I personally respect the people who believe in evolution, but question as to how it all started in the first place. Something doesn't come from nothing you know.

I see what you're saying, but can we end this here? I don't want another evolution debate.

*Salutes* Can do!

 

[sheic99]

Um... I got quoted at least 6 times, being swamped down by flaming just because I'm trying to believe in something other than... nothing.

Of course it had to be locked, it was ridiculous.

You were one of the people not for evolution, right? I don't know why other people who believe in evolution get so hot under the collar when someone doesn't believe. Sure, I get angry when someone clearly doesn't understand what they're talking about (why I made this thread), but if you understand and choose to believe something else, why get mad?

I was against evolution, yes. At least say the name Creationism, saying "Not for" is like being racist or something. (Jk)

People get mad for reasons a bit odd at times. I personally respect the people who believe in evolution, but question as to how it all started in the first place. Something doesn't come from nothing you know.

I'm just curious, but if it offends you do not have to answer.
With believing in Creationism, do also believe in the young Earth and catasphorism theory?

OT:I was meaning to create a thread just like this one.

 

[Kadamon]

Um... I got quoted at least 6 times, being swamped down by flaming just because I'm trying to believe in something other than... nothing.

Of course it had to be locked, it was ridiculous.

You were one of the people not for evolution, right? I don't know why other people who believe in evolution get so hot under the collar when someone doesn't believe. Sure, I get angry when someone clearly doesn't understand what they're talking about (why I made this thread), but if you understand and choose to believe something else, why get mad?

I was against evolution, yes. At least say the name Creationism, saying "Not for" is like being racist or something. (Jk)

People get mad for reasons a bit odd at times. I personally respect the people who believe in evolution, but question as to how it all started in the first place. Something doesn't come from nothing you know.

I'm just curious, but if it offends you do not have to answer.
With believing in Creationism, do also believe in the young Earth and catasphorism theory?

OT:I was meaning to create a thread just like this one.

Would you please reword that and then send it in a PM? Possibly explaining cataphorism and the young Earth standpoint. Sorry, its just been a while since I've discussed either.

 

[Mookie_Magnus]

I was against evolution, yes. At least say the name Creationism, saying "Not for" is like being racist or something. (Jk)
People get mad for reasons a bit odd at times. I personally respect the people who believe in evolution, but question as to how it all started in the first place. Something doesn't come from nothing you know.

But when you say that, it sounds like you're talking about Intelligent Design, which is the belief that Evolution is how life got to this point, but that God created life and set a course for it. Intelligent design is accepted by the entire Papacy, escpecially the current Pope. On Darwin's 200th B-day he made a statement that said Evolution(Intelligent Design) was true and did not contradict the Bible.

The traditional sense of Creationism is that God created the Earth in six days, and that Mankind suddenly appeared here because of divine intervention. I find it to be a shaky hypothesis because the Bible does not explain how the wife of Cain came to be. Or the companions of the rest of Adam and Eve's children.

An even more extreme view of Creationism is Young-Earth Creationism, in which supposedly; the Earth is only about 9000 yrs old(around there) and that fossils were put on Earth by the devil to test your faith.

If you are one of those who believes that Man just popped here by God's hand, then I say, I wish you luck. Because you are now in the minority.

 

[Kadamon]

I was against evolution, yes. At least say the name Creationism, saying "Not for" is like being racist or something. (Jk)
People get mad for reasons a bit odd at times. I personally respect the people who believe in evolution, but question as to how it all started in the first place. Something doesn't come from nothing you know.

But when you say that, it sounds like you're talking about Intelligent Design, which is the belief that Evolution is how life got to this point, but that God created life and set a course for it. Intelligent design is accepted by the entire Papacy, escpecially the current Pope. On Darwin's 200th B-day he made a statement that said Evolution(Intelligent Design) was true and did not contradict the Bible.

The traditional sense of Creationism is that God created the Earth in six days, and that Mankind suddenly appeared here because of divine intervention. I find it to be a shaky hypothesis because the Bible does not explain how the wife of Cain came to be. Or the companions of the rest of Adam and Eve's children.

An even more extreme view of Creationism is Young-Earth Creationism, in which supposedly; the Earth is only about 9000 yrs old(around there) and that fossils were put on Earth by the devil to test your faith.

If you are one of those who believes that Man just popped here by God's hand, then I say, I wish you luck. Because you are now in the minority.

First off, I'm a Baptist.

Second off, we can't really know if God CREATED evolution or not, we simply can't.

Third off, how much longer must I reply to points I made obvious

 

[Kadamon]

You were one of the people not for evolution, right? I don't know why other people who believe in evolution get so hot under the collar when someone doesn't believe. Sure, I get angry when someone clearly doesn't understand what they're talking about (why I made this thread), but if you understand and choose to believe something else, why get mad?

I was against evolution, yes. At least say the name Creationism, saying "Not for" is like being racist or something. (Jk)

People get mad for reasons a bit odd at times. I personally respect the people who believe in evolution, but question as to how it all started in the first place. Something doesn't come from nothing you know.

People get mad because most of the time when people dispute something like evolution, they believe in all the science that is basically indistinguishable from it, and dispute evolution simply on the basis of a desire to believe that science can prove the existence of god. They don't have any actual scientific issue with evolution, they just don't like that it rules out another scientific explanation like creationism that they prefer for reasons that have nothing to do with science. They want to keep a gap in science into which they can stick god, some part of the world that they can keep unexplained so they can keep believing that proof of god is to be found in that gap.

Sure something doesn't come from nothing. However, why does it make any more scientific sense to believe that the first something is an intelligent deity as opposed to inanimate matter and energy?

That's what gets people angry--when people say they believe in creationism as opposed to evolution, I find they've allowed their desire to *want* to believe that creationism makes sense no matter what to overrule the process by which they evaluate all other scientific claims.

For God's sake (zing!) I'm tired of talking about this subject, I believe what I believe and everyone else can do whatever the **** they please, I'm just looking for something that doesn't make existence feel meaningless and bland. Do you just want to be gone whenever you die?

 

[GRoXERs]

OP: Yes. Thank you.
Kadamon: I respect your views, even if I don't really understand them (being as I am an Evolutionary biology major), and either way it's not really worth flaming over. Unfortunately, in any discussion about this, the time comes when one or the other side tries to impose their beliefs on the other - something which, I'm pretty sure, NOBODY likes.

It's like my mother says to the Mormons that occasionally come to our door to try and convert us:
"Hold completely still and the dog won't bite you. Didn't you see the Beware of Dog sign?"
Oh wait, that doesn't really apply. Oh well.

Being clear here, I'm a deist, more or less. I beleive God (whatever that is) made a singularity, set some rules on it, then sat back and watched - it's as good an explanation as any for how the universe started, and evolution was a side effect that happily produced us, and now we get to figure out what those rules are. Whee!

 

[sheic99]

I was against evolution, yes. At least say the name Creationism, saying "Not for" is like being racist or something. (Jk)
People get mad for reasons a bit odd at times. I personally respect the people who believe in evolution, but question as to how it all started in the first place. Something doesn't come from nothing you know.

But when you say that, it sounds like you're talking about Intelligent Design, which is the belief that Evolution is how life got to this point, but that God created life and set a course for it. Intelligent design is accepted by the entire Papacy, escpecially the current Pope. On Darwin's 200th B-day he made a statement that said Evolution(Intelligent Design) was true and did not contradict the Bible

The traditional sense of Creationism is that God created the Earth in six days, and that Mankind suddenly appeared here because of divine intervention. I find it to be a shaky hypothesis because the Bible does not explain how the wife of Cain came to be. Or the companions of the rest of Adam and Eve's children.

An even more extreme view of Creationism is Young-Earth Creationism, in which supposedly; the Earth is only about 9000 yrs old(around there) and that fossils were put on Earth by the devil to test your faith.

If you are one of those who believes that Man just popped here by God's hand, then I say, I wish you luck. Because you are now in the minority.

If you're going to mention Young Earth at least get it right. 9:00am October 23, 4004 BC. Thus the earth would be 6005 years old.

 

[Kadamon]

For God's sake (zing!) I'm tired of talking about this subject, I believe what I believe and everyone else can do whatever the **** they please, I'm just looking for something that doesn't make existence feel meaningless and bland. Do you just want to be gone whenever you die?

Nope--that's why I believe in God ;-D

And sure you can believe whatever you want to believe. However, the problem is when you come into a discussion of science with a belief motivated by the desire to find "something that doesn't make existence feel meaningless and bland" as opposed to trying to discover how your empirical observations fit together.

I mean, plenty of people believe "all men are created equal" without denying the role DNA plays in determining what an individual human is capable of. Believing in the Declaration of Independence when it comes to questions of human rights doesn't mean you want your doctor to disbelieve in congenital genetic disorders, right?

So why does the need to believe in humans having a special place in the world need to involve believing we're not the product of evolution? And more importantly, do you see why your reasons for believing in creationism are radically different than someone else's reasons for believing in evolution?

What bothers people--at least, people like me--isn't what you believe, it's that you don't keep your motives for believing things distinct. Science isn't supposed to be open to reasons like the desire to find "something that doesn't make existence feel meaningless and bland." That doesn't mean it's not an important desire, just that it doesn't have a place in deciding which scientific theory is better.

I'm so sorry I said that last thing, I'm just... really really high-strung right now.

 

[Mookie_Magnus]

If you're going to mention Young Earth at least get it right. 9:00am October 23, 4004 BC. Thus the earth would be 6005 years old.

2009 - 6005 = -3996.
4004 + 2009 = 6013.
Learn to add.

As for the miscalculation, I did not know the Earth's 'DOB' as I am not a Young-Earth Creationist. I believe in God, but If believing in Evolution as well makes me a Heretic, then I'll be chillin' with Darwin in the Afterlife.
Also, I have one thing to say. Eastern Standard Time, Central United States Time, or Greenwich Median Time?

 

[sheic99]

If you're going to mention Young Earth at least get it right. 9:00am October 23, 4004 BC. Thus the earth would be 6005 years old.

2009 - 6005 = -3996.
4004 + 2009 = 6013.
Learn to add.

As for the miscalculation, I did not know the Earth's 'DOB' as I am not a Young-Earth Creationist. I believe in God, but If believing in Evolution as well makes me a Heretic, then I'll be chillin' with Darwin in the Afterlife.
Also, I have one thing to say. Eastern Standard Time, Central United States Time, or Greenwich Median Time?

I don't know European time zones, so I'd say whatever the where England is.