Hyrule Warriors illustrates what I love about Nintendo

[Matthew Jabour]

Well, if there was one thing nobody expected to happen, it was Hyrule Warriors, a Zelda spinoff in the Dynasty Warriors style. Certainly not Nintendo, the 'stubbornly refuses to get with the times' company. Most companies keep their IPs on tight lockdown, only doing spinoffs in tried and true formulas - Racing game, Smash Bros. or equivalent, Board game, etc. But not Nintendo, which, incidentally, is also the company that came up with the above three examples. Even as they stick to a few core franchises, they're willing to USE those franchises in new, unexpected ways.

This is why non-Nintendo fans claim that Nintendo only rehashes old franchises, while the fans know exactly why that's wrong. It's why the recent E3, while containing mostly old franchises, still felt creative. There's Yoshi's Wooly World, which crosses Yoshi's Island and Kirby's Epic Yarn, which literally nobody could have possibly predicted. Then comes Captain Toad's new game, a brilliant way to introduce a puzzle/platforming game into their regular lineup. These kinds of concepts would never fly with Microsoft. You'll never see Master Chief in any game other than Halo, or Marcus Fenix in any series other than Gears of War. And Sony's attempt to do similarly, with that Uncharted card game they mentioned a year or two ago, seems to have slipped into oblivion.

It is this attitude that allows Nintendo to keep its consoles alive, even as most third party companies have abandoned them. Sony would never be able to survive this sort of fate. God of War and Naughty Dog couldn't hold the console's head above water, and if Microsoft ever lost Call of Duty and Battlefield, they might as well commit seppuku on the floor of the New York stock exchange building. They may have good games, but said games are each narrowly specialized, unconducive for the sort of IP expansion Nintendo is capable of.

Of course, I might be wrong. Maybe Sony has some untapped potential I'm not aware of. But when they announce Little Big Planet Warriors, I want you all to know that I called it.

 

[Malbourne]

Well, they did have Playstation All-stars Battle Royale, but it didn't feel like Sony went all-in for the title. Sure, there were a bunch of characters in the game with their own personalities and move-sets intact, but I didn't see the cheekiness behind Sly Cooper or the energy behind Jak. Maybe it was just my preference for colorful and varied characters (while the game included Big Daddy and two Coles) that turned me off of the game.

 

[Elijin]

Good point, a title which is essentially a clone of an existing genre (in this case large scale beat-em up) which is just running a novelty roster of characters from one of their other IPs totally is breaking new ground for Nintendo.

 

[Matthew Jabour]

Good point, a title which is essentially a clone of an existing genre (in this case large scale beat-em up) which is just running a novelty roster of characters from one of their other IPs totally is breaking new ground for Nintendo.

Okay, to verify your point, I'll need you to show me:
1) A game playing in the style of Dynasty Warriors that already existed in Nintendo's lineup.
2) Any other company that has done a similar thing.
3) Some reason why Nintendo doing something they have never done before (and indeed, nobody has ever done before) does not translate to 'breaking new ground for Nintendo.' Want a thesaurus for that last one?

 

[Vigormortis]

Okay, to verify your point, I'll need you to show me:
1) A game playing in the style of Dynasty Warriors that already existed in Nintendo's lineup.
2) Any other company that has done a similar thing.
3) Some reason why Nintendo doing something they have never done before (and indeed, nobody has ever done before) does not translate to 'breaking new ground for Nintendo.' Want a thesaurus for that last one?

Well, um...

1) Is irrelevant if we're openly admitting that this game is a "Zelda-themed" Dynasty Warriors clone.
2) I point you to the following:

Spoiler: From the Dynasty Warriors lineup

Dynasty Warriors Mahjong
Dynasty Warriors: Gundam
Dynasty Warriors: Gundam 2
Dynasty Warriors: Gundam 3
Dynasty Warriors: Gundam Reborn
Warriors Orochi
Warriors Orochi 2
Warriors Orochi 3
Bladestorm: The Hundred Years' War
Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage
Fist of the North Star: Ken's Rage 2
Warriors: Legends of Troy
One Piece: Pirate Warriors
One Piece: Pirate Warriors 2
Hyrule Warriors

All spin-offs of the Dynasty Warriors series.

3) Though part of this one is demonstrably false, we can consider this new ground for Nintendo. Not original or "breaking" but certainly new for them.

 

[Gearhead mk2]

While I disagree with the exact reasoning here, Hyrule Warriors is an example of why I too love Ninty. Sony and Microsoft are trying to attack each other more than focusing on what consumers want, the super hardcore elite PC crowd is busy sacrifing anyone without a £7000 desktop monolith to Deus Ex and Crysis, the mobile markets are flooded with copies of copies and micro transaction filled scams, digital distributors are placing bets on who can invade the most privacy, and third party developers are desperately trying to get noticed in the deluge of games that are made by everyone else. And Nintendo is sitting in the corner, actually making games to make games. They didn't make a new Fire Emblem because they knew it was gonna be a guaranteed giant blockbuster smash hit that would keep their money pool filled for the next quarter, they did it because they thought "Fire Emblem seems to be well liked, let's give it one last shot and see if it works." Same with Pikmin, Star Fox, Luigi's Mansion, Kid Icarus, Punch Out, Bayonetta, and if those rumours about a new Metroid Prime are true then we can add that to the list too. Ninty has their hits and franchises, every big company does, but they're willing to push the boat out and try things that might not work. And regardless of whether its big or not, they put the effort in. Hyrule Warriors doesn't look like just a quick cash grab, it looks like a great hack and slash, and that's coming from someone who doesn't even like Dynasty Warriors that much. And the fact that they're willing to put their name behind something that unsure to such an extent is why I love them.

Though I'm still not forgiving Sakamoto for Other M, I mean Jesus Christ. Gotta have some standards and quality control.

 

[Rednog]

The reasoning is kind of flimsy...
We don't want to see Master Chief playing tennis we don't want to see Marcus Fenix running around a board with his buddies playing mini games. You say it's because companies their IPs on lockdown, I say it's because Nintendo is just trying to crowbar their character into everything.

And yes it does keep the Nintendo console alive, but not for the reasons you say. It isn't this "innovation" of shoving their character into everything that keeps them afloat, it's the fact that their consoles are aimed at a younger audience. Younger audiences respond well to marketing and branding than older audiences. You slap Mario on a game kids are going to say I WANT MARIO, parents are going to go to a store and say their kid wants the new Mario game. They aren't going to say they want Super Mario Legend of the X, Y, Z. Whereas you slap the Master Chief onto a can of Mountain Dew and older gamers are like wtf is this shit. Nintendo is a company that makes competent games, kids have fun with one and when they see Mario's face on another game they are going to want that game too. The younger audience could not care about innovation. And the fact that the pool of younger gamers is constantly refreshed Nintendo is able to rehash and get away with it.

 

[Hero of Lime]

While we are on the subject of Sony, I feel that while they are great for at least trying to make new IPs, they can't seem to keep them interesting after only about 3 or at most 4 entries. I guess that is sort of the tradeoff, you get more newer IPs, but the old ones are left to rot or go into a sad decline.

I feel like as much as Nintendo over relies on their IPs, at least they keep them fun, and fresh. Zelda may have lots of games with constant similar themes, but hearing people say they are just the same games with a fresh coat of paint is just ignorant at best. They keep the series going by leaving in the fundamentals that make it good, and change up the stuff that needs tweaking to keep the flow of new ideas going. The sad part is a lot of people just call these new things "gimmicks" while they think a graphical upgrade and 4 player coop is "true" innovation.

 

[yamy]

Oh come on. Dynasty Warriors is like what one of the most milked series n Japan. I can go as far to say it's almost the equivalent of Cod in Japan/Asia. There's been 8 main line entries, all with basically the same core gameplay with slightly shinier graphics and a multitude of tie ins from popular Japanese series like Gundam and Once Piece.

Ninento making Hyrule Warriors is basically equivalent to printing money, at least in Japan. If anything is one of the safest thing they could have done/ in their line up this year and still shows that above all, the Japanese market comes first

 

[Roxas1359]

While we are on the subject of Sony, I feel that while they are great for at least trying to make new IPs, they can't seem to keep them interesting after only about 3 or at most 4 entries. I guess that is sort of the tradeoff, you get more newer IPs, but the old ones are left to rot or go into a sad decline.

That's what makes me sad as well. They have some great IP they are sitting on, but instead always go off making some newer ones. I know I want an offical Ape Escape 4, along with a MediEvil 3, but sadly they seem to be pipe dreams. Oh well, at least Gravity Rush is getting a sequel. But other than that, they usually abandon the IP after a little bit, unless it's certain ones.

I feel like as much as Nintendo over relies on their IPs, at least they keep them fun, and fresh. Zelda may have lots of games with constant similar themes, but hearing people say they are just the same games with a fresh coat of paint is just ignorant at best. They keep the series going by leaving in the fundamentals that make it good, and change up the stuff that needs tweaking to keep the flow of new ideas going. The sad part is a lot of people just call these new things "gimmicks" while they think a graphical upgrade and 4 player coop is "true" innovation.

I agree with this. One issue I take though is that the OP is insinuating that no other company has ever made a Dynasty Warriors spinoff before, and while it's new for Nintendo to do it, it's not "original and new" like how the OP puts it. I also remember when he made a thread on how Nintendo are the only ones that put work into HD remakes and ports, despite being showed contrary when it came to things like Halo Anniversary, Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 and 2.5, and now the remastering of Halo 2 (which may or may not tip me into the "Get Xbox One" category).

Though I'm still not forgiving Sakamoto for Other M, I mean Jesus Christ. Gotta have some standards and quality control.

Lets just hope Sakamoto doesn't go all George Lucas on us, and isn't in charge of the story of the next Metroid game.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

So, a Dynasty Warriors game is breaking the mold and going where other brands don't, despite the fact that it's not even going to be the tenth Musou game based on an existing franchise, let alone the first? Sure, Sony wouldn't do it, but that's because Sony doesn't own a stable of recognizable characters that they have iterated across every device known to man for three decades. Gundam (a franchise big enough to erect a life-sized replica of a giant robot in a major public space) has done this four times already. Fist of the North Star and One Piece (which is so big in Japan there is a chain of stores that sell only One Piece merchandise) have done it twice each.

There is nothing new, original, or even risky about this. Zelda is like GTA: almost no one notices the flaws in the latest installment until it's been out for six months and everyone who was going to buy it already has.

 

[Roxas1359]

One Piece (which is so big in Japan there is a chain of stores that sell only One Piece merchandise) have done it twice each.

...you must tell me which Province these stores are in, and possibly where they are!? 0__0
Anyway, you are right, Sony doesn't have any franchise that is really so big that they can pull a Dynasty Warriors spinoff. The only two franchises that come to mind are the Ape Escape franchise, which is really popular in Japan, and the Ratchet and Clank one. Even then, I think the only one that could slightly work would be Ape Escape, which has already gotten it's foot wet when it comes to spinoffs in which you play as multiple characters with varying skills, strengths, specials, etc. : Million Monkeys.

 

[TehChuckles]

Nintendo.

The only company that is doing everything we wanted and then more, only to be kicked into the ground because they come out with nothing new. ignoring Splatoon, Xenoblade, and the Wonderful 101 (because they're not Mario Zelda or (insert childhood games series here)). yet we still buy "muscle-bound shooter game 15 (now with side boob)" from Exploiting-Ass Studios.

sarcasm

I guess Nintendo better get the message through their head that even though we complain about it daily, we love our Day-One on disc DLC. we LOVE having to Pre-Order to get it too! we love being forced into downloading shitty DRM Procedures and "Believing the Hype". being blamed for everything that is wrong in the industry because we're "Playing it wrong"? It's a fantastic feeling!

/sarcasm

Point is, don't shoot down Nintendo. Not now.

I understand that all the games look all bright and childish and you want to look all macho man to your macho beer drinking buddies with your bulging muscles and rooms full of guns. but if we only ever buy our Action/Adventure Blockbuster Explosion Extravaganzas ("Spunkgargleweewee"s for you Croshaw-ians). we will lose all our other games that make the industry great. all our Strategies all our Puzzlers. we can't rely on the Independent Community forever. the internet hates it if they get too big, See Phil Fish, The internet turned his name into poison.

Hell, want to see some community poison? look at how we treat valve. we never ask them for something new. it's all half-life 3 this portal that. even 'L4D3' sounds like a game of Battle-Ship it's getting that Ridiculous. then we foam at the mouth when some DRM Cluttered produce goes on sale for anything more than %50 over steam. which is why Origin Seemed like a great Idea.

Best thing about steam is it was a place where we can keep our games without fear of losing them or scratching a disc. now we have our entire games library and another bigger one next door for 5 or 6 games we played for a couple hours.

I know I'm Rambling a bit but we can see how our actions (even the seemingly minimal ones) have a great effect on the industry. So go out. Buy a Wii U and I'll see you on Rainbow Road as we watch Nintendo give us un-paid unlockables. and polished games on release.

Chuckles Out.

 

[gargantual]

While I disagree with the exact reasoning here, Hyrule Warriors is an example of why I too love Ninty. Sony and Microsoft are trying to attack each other more than focusing on what consumers want, the super hardcore elite PC crowd is busy sacrifing anyone without a £7000 desktop monolith to Deus Ex and Crysis, the mobile markets are flooded with copies of copies and micro transaction filled scams, digital distributors are placing bets on who can invade the most privacy, and third party developers are desperately trying to get noticed in the deluge of games that are made by everyone else. And Nintendo is sitting in the corner, actually making games to make games. They didn't make a new Fire Emblem because they knew it was gonna be a guaranteed giant blockbuster smash hit that would keep their money pool filled for the next quarter, they did it because they thought "Fire Emblem seems to be well liked, let's give it one last shot and see if it works." Same with Pikmin, Star Fox, Luigi's Mansion, Kid Icarus, Punch Out, Bayonetta, and if those rumours about a new Metroid Prime are true then we can add that to the list too. Ninty has their hits and franchises, every big company does, but they're willing to push the boat out and try things that might not work. And regardless of whether its big or not, they put the effort in. Hyrule Warriors doesn't look like just a quick cash grab, it looks like a great hack and slash, and that's coming from someone who doesn't even like Dynasty Warriors that much. And the fact that they're willing to put their name behind something that unsure to such an extent is why I love them.

Though I'm still not forgiving Sakamoto for Other M, I mean Jesus Christ. Gotta have some standards and quality control.

Yeah I will say Sony vs Microsoft, EA vs Activision vs Ubisoft is pretty much the stifling games cold war that's hurting their own potential.

Sony's old PS2 strategy was, be the platform for the most diverse range of content, the console war was originally a numbers game but when so many MS and Sony exclusive franchises went multiplat for wider profits, this battle became irrelevant, and thus the megapublishers decided to keep the cold war going by trying to show who had bigger guns than CoD and Halo. The success of stuff like that GTA, Elder Scrolls, RE4 and WoW made people forget their priorities, they hammered on studioes to copy the format of the biggest sellers rather than having the courage to push more unique games. Because that's what drives sales. If the gameplay's good and fresh and different, it will be talked about people will come just to see what type of gameplay they're missing out on, and if its a diamond in the rough, thats likely due to releasing around heavy competition, eventually it'll gain a cult following and pick right back up like Dark Souls.

 

[tippy2k2]

The problem I have with Nintendo is that there is only one of their series that I remotely care about and even then, it's only a piece of what they do (2D Metroid games). All the other games (and Mario's fifty thousand spin-offs) do nothing for me.

As of right now, the Wii U has the same exact thing going for it that Microsoft/Sony has going for them; potential. Some of those incoming JRPGs look promising but that's all they are right now; promises that may or may not be fulfilled and not a gamble I'm going to take until I have a sure thing. Nintendo HAD the chance to grab me as a customer and what did they do with it? What is on the Wii U right now that I want to play? Spoiler Alert: Nothing I can't get on my 360/PS3 right now. I didn't care about Dynasty Warriors when it was called Dynasty Warriors; palette swapping Link into that role isn't going to change my mind on that.

Now granted, the fact that Nintendo does it's own thing without a care of what the others are doing is what makes them great in some people's eyes. If it works for you and you're happy with that, more power to you. I'm not one of those bung-hole gamers who mock other gamers choice of gaming (even if they won't always show me that same respect...friggin Yahtzee's blind mice and the "Spunkgarbleblahblahblah bullshit).

But now if Nintendo wants my business, they're going up against the two systems that I KNOW will cater to what I want to get. All three systems will have a chance in my book to become my primary gaming system (though Nintendo is admittedly the dark horse underdog in that race based on history); it's up to Nintendo to show me why I should choose them over a PS4/Xbox One (or hell, even a...dare I say it...[small]PC[/small])

 

[Super Cyborg]

I feel Nintendo games is like other franchises that are long running, from the outside it seems like it is the same thing every game (people think all Zelda games are OoT, all Mario's are the same, etc.), but if one plays or looks closely enough, the differences are enough for people. Mario has new levels and power-ups, Zelda has a different look, new items, completely different looking worlds and dungeons. One of the problems that I've seen is people who want Nintendo to make their franchises like other games. I've seen people want Zelda to be like Skyrim or Witcher, because that would work well since Nintendo has never made games that huge, and if one wants to play games like that, there are other games in the market as well that are like that.

As far as some of the other stuff coming out (Bayonetta 2, X, Splatoon), It's a step in the right direction, but some people seem to want to piss on Nintendo at any chance they get. People were constantly saying that Nintendo needs more variety, and when they saved Bayonetta so the sequel could be made, people moaned that it was Nintendo exclusive, when lots of people were saying that they needed better exclusives. For the other things, not enough new IP's, or looks stupid, etc. I love Nintendo games, and they are not perfect, but it pisses me off when a company is making an effort and people will lash out at any chance. Non of the games they announced you interested in, fine, you probably will never get the system. There is only a few games you might want? If you really want Nintendo to make new games like the ones you hope to get, you might have to suck it up, buy a system and the games you want to show support.

As far as the Hyrule Warriors, I look forward to it. Never been into Dynasty warriors, but the gameplay with characters from the Zelda universe I want to play sounds really cool. I'll buy it at some point, but not sure if day one, because I have plenty of games to play already. I think if Nintendo can continue this way, they can do well overall, if they also start marketing better as well.

 

[Tony2077]

it looks like it'd be interesting but no wii u and i don't see myself getting one anytime soon so I'll get samurai warrior 4 when it comes out

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

snip

I think you're forgetting a good chunk of the foundation of Sony's success. They've always had a knack for selling Japanese sleeper/cult hits to the worldwide market at a massive rate for comparatively. Stretching back to ever the PSOne. Games like Bushido Blade and Tehcnu have pretty big fanbases. Metal Gear Solid was one hell of a home-run in sales. Then there's the weird cult hits coming from both Eastern and Western publishers (a lot from Sony itself) like the Oddworld games and PaRappa Da Rapper.

Also making JRPGS outside of Japan mega-popular.

The PS2 was that but times a 100 with titles like Katamari Damacy, Mark of Kri, GodHand, Veiwtiful Joe, etc.

Not saying Nintendo's consoles don't have libraries with lots of acclaimed cult classics, but the PS consoles tend to have way more of them. And they tend to have a much higher chance of selling well enough to continue with Worldwide released of games from Japan. Games like Yakuza 1 and 2, as well as Way of the Samurai and Dynasty Warriors.

Sony's flexibility on Japanese games getting worldwide releases has always been a point that Nintendo has ignored. People has to scream so loudly) even with Zelda Williams) with Operation Rainfall to get some good localized JRPGs on the Wii.


Now I'm not saying the PS3 didn't have some problems selling some of those cult classics at the same rate as the PS2, but its hard to knock Dark Souls considering the only reason it was released outside of Japan was word of mouth got to more than a loud minority worth of people. Yakuza's devs are finding it hard to justify porting later games in the franchise and a large bunch of the IPs made famous on the PS1 PS2 days (Tenchu, Bushido Blade) have been sold of too different devs and kinda ruined. The PS3 was still the console that realistically had constant JRPGs for the large of amount of people that wanted them. The Wii didn't have too much in that department and frankly JRPGs sell better on Nintendo's handhelds these days unless their the Tales of Series. Then they get put on the Sony Console.

My point is that Sony still has a bucket of variety when it comes to games. If your looking at it from a "What are the usual big publishers making" perspective, its lamesauce and sequalitis, and will be for a while. But so far every generation since its first, the PS brand has had a large amount of varied cult classics that sell well. I honestly think Sega's biggest mistake when they were in the process of ending the Dreamcast was putting games like Shenmue and Jet Set Radio Future on the original Xbox and not the PS2. I get that at the time they never would have, but it really hurt them during that generation until Yakuza 1 and 2 blew up in the Western market.

 

[Hero of Lime]

I agree with this. One issue I take though is that the OP is insinuating that no other company has ever made a Dynasty Warriors spinoff before, and while it's new for Nintendo to do it, it's not "original and new" like how the OP puts it. I also remember when he made a thread on how Nintendo are the only ones that put work into HD remakes and ports, despite being showed contrary when it came to things like Halo Anniversary, Kingdom Hearts HD 1.5 and 2.5, and now the remastering of Halo 2 (which may or may not tip me into the "Get Xbox One" category).

Oh definitely, I know there was even a One Piece DW game at some point, and I still want to try one of the Gundam versions at some point. It's exciting to see a spin off for a Nintendo franchise that isn't Mario, I hope they keep the trend up.

I also can't help but want an Xbox One for the Master Chief Collection, but I really don't want an Xbox One, at least not for a while. :/ It doesn't help that they just showed some of the remastered cutscenes, makes it harder to resist.

 

[Roxas1359]

Oh definitely, I know there was even a One Piece DW game at some point, and I still want to try one of the Gundam versions at some point. It's exciting to see a spin off for a Nintendo franchise that isn't Mario, I hope they keep the trend up.

There are 2 actually. The first one goes through all arcs up to the Whitebeard War Arcs conclusion, and shows a bit of the post 2 year time skip stuff. The second game goes all the way to Punk Hazard's arc. I will say that they are a bit quick time event happy, but they are fun, but that might be my inner One Piece fanboyism. The Gundam games are a bit hit or miss really. First one didn't feel that good, but the second one was a lot of fun I remember.

Really for Hyrule Warriors, because I know some people will see my comments and think I'm anti-everything Nintendo, I'm really excited for it. My friend and I are getting it day one, and were planning on doing so since it was first announced (I got my friend into Zelda in the first place). But I won't sit by and act as if it is the most original thing ever and the first time a company has ever done it. First time Nintendo's done it, which I'm glad, but this is definitely not as original as the OP makes it sound.

I also can't help but want an Xbox One for the Master Chief Collection, but I really don't want an Xbox One, at least not for a while. :/ It doesn't help that they just showed some of the remastered cutscenes, makes it harder to resist.

Believe me, I've been holding it back right now as well. Halo is really the only thing besides Banjo Kazooie that I turn my 360 on for anymore, and even then it's rare. I find that I honestly love the universe more though, but the chance to get the remastered Halo 1, Halo 2, Halo 3, and Halo 4 is nice. I just wish ODST and Reach would be included, especially ODST which is severely underrated if you ask me.