I already dislike Lashana Lynch (No Time to Die)

Ezekiel

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Seriously disagree about John Cleese.
Well, I haven't seen World Is Not Enough or Die Another Day in half a lifetime. Remember finding the new Q pretty boring and forgettable, though.
 

BrawlMan

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That's crap. I can still want something better for Bond in the future even if I have no plans of seeing the next movie. A new James Bond movie used to be exciting for me. I hope one day it can be again.
Sounds like a you problem either way. I'm always excited for a new Bond film. Always. Even it turns out bad, so what? It's not the end of the world.
 
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happyninja42

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I find the phrase toxic masculinity oppressive. Why can't they just say "misogyny," like normal people?
Maybe because normal people don't actually use misogyny in common language. I think the first time I ever heard the word spoken aloud, in pop culture, was an episode of Beavis and Butthead, when Darla named her...I dunno, her superhero or whatever? And named her Miss Ogyny. And I was like "huh...I don't know what that word means exactly, as I've never heard it spoken aloud. Given the context of the character, I'm assuming it's something gender related." And that's...honestly probably the only time I've heard anyone use that term. It hasn't been a common term for decades, and thus most people have no real clue what it actually means. Where the phrase "toxic masculinity" is easily digestible to anyone upon first glance. Because we all have examples in our lives of the various ways that dudes can be assholes, that are very uniquely masculine in the nature of the assholesness. So when you see that phrase, you go "oh, yeah, that shitbag dudebro kind of behavior, that demeans everyone around them in an effort to elevate themselves."

It's just a more easily used and understood phrase.
 

Ezekiel

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Maybe because normal people don't actually use misogyny in common language. I think the first time I ever heard the word spoken aloud, in pop culture, was an episode of Beavis and Butthead, when Darla named her...I dunno, her superhero or whatever? And named her Miss Ogyny. And I was like "huh...I don't know what that word means exactly, as I've never heard it spoken aloud. Given the context of the character, I'm assuming it's something gender related." And that's...honestly probably the only time I've heard anyone use that term. It hasn't been a common term for decades, and thus most people have no real clue what it actually means. Where the phrase "toxic masculinity" is easily digestible to anyone upon first glance. Because we all have examples in our lives of the various ways that dudes can be assholes, that are very uniquely masculine in the nature of the assholesness. So when you see that phrase, you go "oh, yeah, that shitbag dudebro kind of behavior, that demeans everyone around them in an effort to elevate themselves."

It's just a more easily used and understood phrase.
Doubt it's that unknown, and if it is, they should open a dictionary, because "toxic masculinity" has unintentionally sexist undertones that might make one think they really aim to emasculate men. Unless you emphasize the first word every time, it's a stupid term. Pretty sure it became that popular because it sounds more malicious than misogyny.
 

Samtemdo8

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I am dreading the rumors of a black Superman played by Michael B. Jordan.

And its not like Black Spiderman being his own person, as in he's not Peter Parker turned Black, he's Miles Morales.

As far as I know its just Clark Kent but he's black now. Which begs the question, is Lois Lane gonna be black? Or Pa and Martha Kent gonna be black? is Jor-El gonna be Black? Is Lex Luthor still gonna be the same bald white guy?
 
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happyninja42

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Doubt it's that unknown, and if it is, they should open a dictionary, because "toxic masculinity" has unintentionally sexist undertones that might make one think they really aim to emasculate men. Unless you emphasize the first word every time, it's a stupid term. Pretty sure it became that popular because it sounds more malicious than misogyny.
Well given the definition of misogyny is dislike/contempt, ingrained bigotry against women, it's kind of implied to be masculine in nature. Sure you can have the occasional woman who somehow dislikes women, but it's kind of implied in the definition. Toxic masculinity isn't just talking about misogyny though, it covers a much larger set of behaviors and social conditionings than JUST "being bigoted against women" So I think it's a perfectly apt term. As there are plenty of ways a guy can be a douchebag, that aren't dependent on being misogynistic
 

happyninja42

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I am dreading the rumors of a black Superman played by Michael B. Jordan.

And its not like Black Spiderman being his own person, as in he's not Peter Parker turned Black, he's Miles Morales.

As far as I know its just Clark Kent but he's black now. Which begs the question, is Lois Lane gonna be black? Or Pa and Martha Kent gonna be black? is Jor-El gonna be Black? Is Lex Luthor still gonna be the same bald white guy?
Considering Cavill was apparently picked just because he LOOKED like Superman, and couldn't really act his way out of a paper bag, I'll take "Good actor but black, playing a traditionally white character" over "not a very good actor but he looks accurate to source material" any day.
 

Samtemdo8

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Considering Cavill was apparently picked just because he LOOKED like Superman, and couldn't really act his way out of a paper bag, I'll take "Good actor but black, playing a traditionally white character" over "not a very good actor but he looks accurate to source material" any day.
Or just hire another White Actor.

And just make another Superhero character that happens to be black and not just replace Superman with a different actor of different ethnic background.

I cannot for the life of me see a Black Superman living in Smallville and not getting racially marginalized by the possibly racist white locals of midwest Smallville.
 

happyninja42

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Or just hire another White Actor.

And just make another Superhero character that happens to be black and not just replace Superman with a different actor of different ethnic background.

I cannot for the life of me see a Black Superman living in Smallville and not getting racially marginalized by the possibly racist white locals of midwest Smallville.
They might make that a plot element, who knows. Because you know, the ideal midwest 'murica fantasy is as much bullshit as "space alien with superpowers due to yellow sunlight" Also, there ARE black people in Kansas. Just checked and close to 200k.

I do find it funny that you think it would reveal the racist underbelly of smallville if they made Clark black, but then don't move that forward to the logical conclusion of "well Clark was RAISED in this town, so he'd likely be just as racist as the town that raised him"

But hey, if race doesn't actually matter in these things, then it shouldn't matter what race an ACTOR is that's playing a character. There isn't anything inherently white about Clark Kent. He is in fact, not ACTUALLY a Caucasian. He's a fucking Kryptonian, not a white dude. So everything about his human design is artificial, on both the meta and in-universe level.

So again, it doesn't matter what race the actor is. I'd rather they pick an actor who can play the part well, and not base it on their skin tone. Because there is nothing racially unique about pretty much any of the comic heroes, barring the ones specifically designed to represent ethnic groups. All of the things that make them who they are, as far as motivations, backgrounds, etc, are pretty universal.
 
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BrawlMan

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Maybe because normal people don't actually use misogyny in common language. I think the first time I ever heard the word spoken aloud, in pop culture, was an episode of Beavis and Butthead, when Darla named her...I dunno, her superhero or whatever? And named her Miss Ogyny. And I was like "huh...I don't know what that word means exactly, as I've never heard it spoken aloud. Given the context of the character, I'm assuming it's something gender related." And that's...honestly probably the only time I've heard anyone use that term. It hasn't been a common term for decades, and thus most people have no real clue what it actually means. Where the phrase "toxic masculinity" is easily digestible to anyone upon first glance. Because we all have examples in our lives of the various ways that dudes can be assholes, that are very uniquely masculine in the nature of the assholesness. So when you see that phrase, you go "oh, yeah, that shitbag dudebro kind of behavior, that demeans everyone around them in an effort to elevate themselves."

It's just a more easily used and understood phrase.
Misogyny was a well-known term even for me. The first time I heard of it I was about eight or nine years old. if I remember correctly, it was the show Married with Children when I first heard of it.

By the way, the character you're thinking of is Daria, not Darla. The minor character that eventually got her own spin-off show.
 

happyninja42

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Misogyny was a well-known term even for me. The first time I heard of it I was about eight or nine years old. if I remember correctly, it was the show Married with Children when I first heard of it.

By the way, the character you're thinking of is Daria, not Darla. The minor character that eventually got her own spin-off show.
I'm not saying it's known by noone, just that when the subject of "men being assholes" comes up, the term misogyny just isn't used that often from my experience. They more often use other terms, misogyny is fairly specific in what it's defined as. Granted, I'm not really deep into the gender politics circles of the world, but in just common word usage, it's not a common term in my experience.

And yes, Daria, thank you. Barely remember that character on a show I didn't watch much. The fact that I remember it at all, is BECAUSE I never heard that word much. And thinking back, I am incorrect in saying I'd never heard the word prior to that, but it was just one of those "dictionary words" that is technically in the language, but not actually used. And her saying it, caught my ear, as it's just not used much.
 

Samtemdo8

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They might make that a plot element, who knows. Because you know, the ideal midwest 'murica fantasy is as much bullshit as "space alien with superpowers due to yellow sunlight" Also, there ARE black people in Kansas. Just checked and close to 200k.

I do find it funny that you think it would reveal the racist underbelly of smallville if they made Clark black, but then don't move that forward to the logical conclusion of "well Clark was RAISED in this town, so he'd likely be just as racist as the town that raised him"

But hey, if race doesn't actually matter in these things, then it shouldn't matter what race an ACTOR is that's playing a character. There isn't anything inherently white about Clark Kent. He is in fact, not ACTUALLY a Caucasian. He's a fucking Kryptonian, not a white dude. So everything about his human design is artificial, on both the meta and in-universe level.

So again, it doesn't matter what race the actor is. I'd rather they pick an actor who can play the part well, and not base it on their skin tone. Because there is nothing racially unique about pretty much any of the comic heroes, barring the ones specifically designed to represent ethnic groups. All of the things that make them who they are, as far as motivations, backgrounds, etc, are pretty universal.
I am relieved because I was worried I was going into problematic territory with stating this opinion I have on the topic. And I am glad for your response to what I said being constructive.
 

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I liked "Skyfall" which had a really good hook. Daniel Craig's Bond is tired, hurt from a life time of physical abuse, older and past his prime. So, you had the added excitement of wondering could he still do 007 stuff and if not, how would he compensate. That was freakin 2012. 8 years ago. I don't recall the follow up to Skyfall making his age a part of it. I guess they're back to it and Craig is supposed to retire, the 007 designation going to Lashana. Phoebe Waller-Bridge is involved and she was spectacular in "Feabag". So I have high hopes this will be fun too. But if it turns into cringe war on men, look at how much better Lashana is than Bond ever was while she denigrates him... this male fantasy IP is going to turn into, "welcome to my nightmare." No one likes their fantasies to morph into something to dread. Fingers crossed. We'll see what happens.
 

happyninja42

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I am relieved because I was worried I was going into problematic territory with stating this opinion I have on the topic. And I am glad for your response to what I said being constructive.
And I am heartened by your totally not sarcastic at all response to my criticism of your opinion. Please let us continue to talk snarky like this instead of just addressing the issue that you brought up. The fact that it's your opinion is fine, state it all you want, I don't care at all. It doesn't mean it's correct, and it doesn't mean I won't say I think it's a faulty premise. Your opinion has been a very tired, old argument for decades, including being used back when they made Miles Morales, and people were bitching about a black spiderman. Nevermind that it is actually a different person, that didn't matter. Because he is using the superhero name spiderman, it's "riding the coattails of another hero" level of criticisms. Nevermind that he's actually a very compelling character, it boils down to "whaa, he's not white but is calling himself spiderman"

Which is frankly just a really lame criticism, and is ultimately a racially motivated one. Since the entire point of the complaint, is based on the race of the character. There is no reason to keep any of these characters (aside from the ones that are, by design, meant to represent some specific group) as the same race they were first started as other than "I don't like them not being white."

We've had 2 different actors, post Reeves, play superman, both of which LOOKED the part, but were not very good at actually ACTING the part. Personally I think Brandon Routh did just fine, but I'm apparently in the minority on that opinion. So again, I don't think worrying about the appearance of the actor, matters at all, especially if it's given higher priority over whether or not the person chosen can actually act worth a damn.

Now is Michael B. Jordan the guy for the role? I have no idea. But I'm not the one in charge of casting. If he nails the audition better than anyone else, then he should get the role in my opinion. I'm capable of looking past the appearance of the actor, and judge them on their actual performance.

Because again, Kal-El isn't actually Caucasian, he is an alien from another planet, who "just so happens" to exactly like stereotypical Norman Rockwell 'Murica circa 1930s or whatever. It's not changing his race, because he's not human.
 
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Kwak

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inb4 "You're a misogynist racist if you don't go out and watch this movie".
You're a misogynist ra.... oh damn, someone beat me to it.
How could someone know the very thing that literally no-one is saying?
You win this battle, brave warrior against social change, you're a formidable opponent.
 
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Trunkage

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inb4 "You're a misogynist racist if you don't go out and watch this movie".

Let them do as they please, just don't humor them. It's about money after all, and if the first film tanks, they will have the opportunity to change it.
It would be really cool if we watch the movie first before thinking the women actors shit the bed
 
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Iron

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You're a misogynist ra.... oh damn, someone beat me to it.
How could someone know the very thing that literally no-one is saying?
You win this battle, brave warrior against social change, you're a formidable opponent.
It would be really cool if we watch the movie first before thinking the women actors shit the bed
I'll pass. I'd rather go to the new ghostbusters movie that erased the female remake instead.