I Am Confused Edition: Sexist for calling someone "stunning"?

Parasondox

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Still on Strike!! You know our demands or I will shut down London, Boris.

I do not get this world anymore. Well, I understand the world, just some things baffle me. Someone just handed me can, shall I open it?

Lawyer accused of sexism after complimenting barrister on 'stunning' LinkedIn picture

Alexander Carter-Silk messaged human rights lawyer Charlotte Proudman on LinkedIn to say she would "win the prize for the best Linked in picture I have ever seen".

A 57-year-old lawyer was accused of ?unacceptable and misogynistic behaviour? after he sent a barrister half his age a LinkedIn message complimenting her on her ?stunning picture?.
Alexander Carter-Silk was named and shamed on Twitter by 27-year-old human rights lawyer Charlotte Proudman who posted her reply to the message online.
Full story here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/11852887/Lawyer-accused-of-sexism-after-complimenting-barrister-on-stunning-LinkedIn-picture.html

Let's shorten and sweeten this.

Give me your thoughts on this story and anything else you wish to add.
 

BiscuitTrouser

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Look at this rationally, a 57 year old man inappropriately messaged a 27 year old on a professional website in a way that is annoying and frankly creepy.

Is it sexist? Not sure really, id say no, but at the same time is the problem here that the person being creeped on by an older "professional" used the "wrong word" to describe the creepiness? Is that the take away from this? Some guy was an asshole, some girl described his assholishness using the wrong words and we focus on the later-bit?

No compliments are not sexist. You think being complimented is what made her annoyed? Cmon try and understand her perspective and apply SOME context. You cant honestly believe compliments are being accused of being sexist here right? I cant possibly imagine how youd take that from this story, this is about someone older in your field using a professional service to be creepy.
 

tippy2k2

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Parasondox said:
That is why I am confused. I would tell women that I knew they were stunning and I would say it to guys too.
This seems like it boils down to phrases meaning different things for different people.

To me, calling someone stunning is basically the polite way of saying "Hell yeah sexy!!! You remind me of my pinky toe cause I'm about to bang you on every piece of furniture in the house!". I'm guessing you see it as the equivalent of saying "You look very nice in your photo" (although since he admits in his message that it's "politically incorrect", I'm leaning more towards "HEY SEXY!" then "You look nice").

From the sound of the story, these two did not know each other (or maybe in the barest of ways since he had to get her LinkedIn info somehow), which when combined with his age, really ups the creep factor...
 

Parasondox

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BiscuitTrouser said:
Look at this rationally, a 57 year old man inappropriately messaged a 27 year old on a professional website in a way that is annoying and frankly creepy.

Is it sexist? Not sure really, id say no, but at the same time is the problem here that the person being creeped on by an older "professional" used the "wrong word" to describe the creepiness? Is that the take away from this? Some guy was an asshole, some girl described his assholishness using the wrong words and we focus on the later-bit?

No compliments are not sexist. You think being complimented is what made her annoyed? Cmon try and understand her perspective and apply SOME context. You cant honestly believe compliments are being accused of being sexist here right? I cant possibly imagine how youd take that from this story, this is about someone older in your field using a professional service to be creepy.
I did say I understood both sides of the story. The creepy factor too. I didn't say I didn't understand her perspective, I'm just asking, does saying that word warrant the title of being called sexist?

Discuss the story if you must cause it's an open debate.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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This is an outrage. They're not using the correct word to describe the problem. This is indeed more important than him being a creep that seems to have mistaken LinkedIn for OkCupid. (And while obnoxious I'm not trying to imply that is particularly important either)

And I can see why people say it anyways. This creepy thing where some guys seem to think women would have to love any compliment on their looks, so much so that apparently he thought a dating site type of comment would get a pass on a website about professional connections, seems to likely tie into a sexist attitude.
 

DudeistBelieve

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BiscuitTrouser said:
Look at this rationally, a 57 year old man inappropriately messaged a 27 year old on a professional website in a way that is annoying and frankly creepy.

Is it sexist? Not sure really, id say no, but at the same time is the problem here that the person being creeped on by an older "professional" used the "wrong word" to describe the creepiness? Is that the take away from this? Some guy was an asshole, some girl described his assholishness using the wrong words.

No compliments are not sexist. You think being complimented is what made her annoyed? Cmon try and understand her perspective and apply SOME context. You cant honestly believe compliments are being accused of being sexist here right? I cant possibly imagine how youd take that from this story.
is the only thing that makes it asshole-ish because it's a professional website meant for finding jobs? cause okay, I see that.

I'm also wondering whats wrong with a grown man essentially hitting on a full grown adult woman (in general, context of the website not withstanding). My own parents age difference is 30 yrs.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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SaneAmongInsane said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
Look at this rationally, a 57 year old man inappropriately messaged a 27 year old on a professional website in a way that is annoying and frankly creepy.

Is it sexist? Not sure really, id say no, but at the same time is the problem here that the person being creeped on by an older "professional" used the "wrong word" to describe the creepiness? Is that the take away from this? Some guy was an asshole, some girl described his assholishness using the wrong words.

No compliments are not sexist. You think being complimented is what made her annoyed? Cmon try and understand her perspective and apply SOME context. You cant honestly believe compliments are being accused of being sexist here right? I cant possibly imagine how youd take that from this story.
is the only thing that makes it asshole-ish because it's a professional website meant for finding jobs? cause okay, I see that.

I'm also wondering whats wrong with a grown man essentially hitting on a full grown adult woman (in general, context of the website not withstanding). My own parents age difference is 30 yrs.
Do you consider hitting on random people regardless of where you meet them to be behavior that should be considered polite? I'd lean towards crass.
 

Dango

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It just seems like the guy thought a quick way of getting her to want to work with him was to flatter her or to appeal to her ego (which to be fair, works in RPGs all the time).

I mean yeah it was a dumb move but it's an overreaction by her and not really news worthy.
 

Parasondox

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BiscuitTrouser said:
The most irritating thing is somehow your take away is that men everywhere are the victims:
"What is this world anymore, what CRAAAAAZYNESS is this where a woman doesnt like an older stranger using professional contacts to hit on her!". Really
When, in any context or conversation, did I imply that? I think I need to re-edit my post to make it clearer. Or better yet, allow me to do a few things.
 

BiscuitTrouser

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SaneAmongInsane said:
is the only thing that makes it asshole-ish because it's a professional website meant for finding jobs? cause okay, I see that.

I'm also wondering whats wrong with a grown man essentially hitting on a full grown adult woman (in general, context of the website not withstanding). My own parents age difference is 30 yrs.
I dont necessarily agree with that view but a lot of society does find it creepier when the age difference is so large, it might be a contributing reason for her reaction, frankly I wouldnt look down upon her for it.
 

BiscuitTrouser

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Parasondox said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
The most irritating thing is somehow your take away is that men everywhere are the victims:
"What is this world anymore, what CRAAAAAZYNESS is this where a woman doesnt like an older stranger using professional contacts to hit on her!". Really
When, in any context or conversation, did I imply that? I think I need to re-edit my post to make it clearer. Or better yet, allow me to do a few things.
I edited this out because that was really me making assumptions about the tone of your introduction which in second thought was too much of a leap for me to make, i retract that point entirely.

Parasondox said:
I did say I understood both sides of the story. The creepy factor too. I didn't say I didn't understand her perspective, I'm just asking, does saying that word warrant the title of being called sexist?

Discuss the story if you must cause it's an open debate.
No saying the word outloud doesnt warrent being called sexist. But he didnt sit in a perfectly empty void and say it, the entire context around the incident is arguably sexist and the way you managed to miss mentioning it possibly being the primary AND deciding factor in her calling it sexist in your into borders on intentional.

Think of it this way, its like if the article mentioned he wore a red shirt and you asked "Is wearing red shirts sexist?" because he was called sexist while wearing it. It seems tangentially related to the entire incident at best, his specific phrasing isnt the issue here and i dont think it ever was even from her perspective.
 

Parasondox

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BiscuitTrouser said:
Parasondox said:
BiscuitTrouser said:
The most irritating thing is somehow your take away is that men everywhere are the victims:
"What is this world anymore, what CRAAAAAZYNESS is this where a woman doesnt like an older stranger using professional contacts to hit on her!". Really
When, in any context or conversation, did I imply that? I think I need to re-edit my post to make it clearer. Or better yet, allow me to do a few things.
I edited this out because that was really me making assumptions about the tone of your introduction which in second thought was too much of a leap for me to make, i retract that point entirely.
Nah, it's fine, It's done anyways and the topic itself is any interesting one.

The show must go on.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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Dango said:
It just seems like the guy thought a quick way of getting her to want to work with him was to flatter her or to appeal to her ego (which to be fair, works in RPGs all the time).

I mean yeah it was a dumb move but it's an overreaction by her and not really news worthy.
Aside from what looks like a throwaway last line that's pretty much a 'Anyways good to meet you' I'm not seeing anything in it that looks like it's trying to get a serious working relationship

Considering he's a senior partner and she's working for her PHD I don't think it particularly makes sense to try and butter her up to offer her work.

I also wonder how you interpret something preceded with 'I know this is really politically incorrect' to be an attempt to butter someone up. It looks like you give him the total benefit of the doubt and none to her.
 

omega 616

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Parasondox said:
It is a small example of a larger problem.

That website is one for business networking, nothing more. This old married lawyer used it to message a much younger Lawyer and tell her she is stunning, when she slaps him on the wrist, he comes out with the shittiest excuse ever and said he was referring to the composition of the shot.

Women play a part in reducing themselves to being nothing but sex symbols. Wearing tight clothes, push up bra's, make up, spanx, cosmetic surgery, creams, powders, hair dies, shaving, beauty therapy, low tops and short skirts. Strippers, prostitutes, cam girls, porn stars, booth babes and models all reduce women to their psychical appearance. We value a beautiful looking woman over an ugly one.

Just look at cosplayers, I know you all love to or game characters in general ... boobs and butts everywhere! Characters like Bayonnetta and I know women love her and think she dresses "cute" but these are also the same people who wear leggings year round, which don't leave much to the imagination.

HOWEVER, even though that is true (and I am sure I am about to get a lot of quotes saying other wise) men are the main problem.

How often do you see/hear men complimenting each other the same way? The OP says he "I would say it to guys too" really? What do you say "hi gorgeous"? "looking ripped today!"? Ever send a message to a random guy on a social site and tell him he looks stunning? what about handsome?

Then there is "locker room talk", not all men do it but guys, the way some of us talk about women ... I mean, I often hear their gender being ripped out, it is like you're talking about literal meat. "look at the arse on that!" THAT! Not "her" but that ... like how you would describe any other OBJECT ... "look at the spoiler on THAT car", "look at the case on THAT pc", "look at the marbling on THAT meat".

Guys having competitions to see who can shag the most different girls, guys are studs but women are sluts.

Then when a woman says "nah, I don't want to be treated like this and ogled" she gets abuse and slapped down "Note to self, women who use the word sexist are bitches. kthx."

"the woman is a joke and most will view her as just that, might I suggest she gets out more and gets a life, because she obviously doesn't have one at the moment lmao"

"The woman seems to have obvious emotional issues."

"Wow. In what setting was it really appropriate to publically shame someone over something this minor? How is that justified in this case? She should have just sent the message and let it be. Now she seems like a total spaz that no one would want to work with.



That aside, this is hardly a bad compliment. I was expecting much worse. Take it easy world, you can be attractive and smart. Given the choice between two candidates with equal credentials, you take the more attractive candidate. Why? Because as with the case of hiring, you can only know so much about someone from an interview and background check. But if you can tell someone takes care of themselves, it says a lot." (perfect example of what I was saying "Given the choice between two candidates with equal credentials, you take the more attractive candidate.")

I am sure there are worse around.

I can't talk for women but if I was getting comments on my appearance day in and day out, I would get annoyed to. The men probably only see it as "well I only complimented her" but what if you're the 25th person that day to say something? "How about once just a compliment about my intelligence or work ethic or punctuality or accomplishments, no, it always has to be about how I look".

I am sure women compliment men but I don't think I have ever seen a car full of girl honk at a guy or cat call/wolf whistle or making a passing comment to a strange guy about his looks.

I know I have to say this 'cos otherwise people will try to call me out on it but (and as always) I am generalizing a lot ... I don't think I should have to be super accurate about how often it happens 'cos who is really to say.

I just think women should be treated as people, not as a sexual conquest. Do people really need to comment on others appearance that much?

EDIT: everybody is posting little paragraphs and I wade in with war and peace.

SO, TLDR:

Men should stop being on the prowl all the god damn time. Time and place to try and pick up the ladies or cheat on your wife (I know this great site for that, it's called Ashley Madison ...) and a business networking site, isn't it!

Women, try to not care so much about your looks. Be presentable by all means but don't try and look like a lady from a magazine! Maybe if you stop putting so much effort into it, men will put less effort into trying to add you to their notch collection.
 

Dango

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Secondhand Revenant said:
Dango said:
It just seems like the guy thought a quick way of getting her to want to work with him was to flatter her or to appeal to her ego (which to be fair, works in RPGs all the time).

I mean yeah it was a dumb move but it's an overreaction by her and not really news worthy.
Aside from what looks like a throwaway last line that's pretty much a 'Anyways good to meet you' I'm not seeing anything in it that looks like it's trying to get a serious working relationship

Considering he's a senior partner and she's working for her PHD I don't think it particularly makes sense to try and butter her up to offer her work.

I also wonder how you interpret something preceded with 'I know this is really politically incorrect' to be an attempt to butter someone up. It looks like you give him the total benefit of the doubt and none to her.
I just think her reaction just feels like she was looking for a reason to be angry or offended. I think they both made mistakes, though reading the article my response is along the lines of: I'm happy she was willing to express her anger over her interpretation of the message, but I don't necessarily agree with her interpretation of it." I'm willing to see things from both persons' points of view (pluralization is weird) and doing so doesn't make me lean towards her. My old experience of being totally socially inept makes me more willing to believe this man is just kind of stupid and worded things badly.

That's on top of how I think the release of a message that was assumed to be private is somewhat cruel, even given the circumstances, given how willing the internet is willing to after anything, that's something I think was irresponsible of her.
 

DefunctTheory

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According to the article, the woman is frequently messaged on a non-social, supposedly professional website by people hitting on her, rather then trying to connect professionally. Unlike some people here, I see the point - context matters. Just like the urinals in a male bathroom are a bad place to voice your appreciation for another man's cock (No matter how magnificent it is, or how sure you are he's gay), Linked In is an inappropriate place to comment on someones attractiveness, especially when you have absolutely nothing constructive to say otherwise, unless trying to get into the pants of a stranger who's just looking for a job can be considered constructive.

Is it sexist? Perhaps not. Was it completely unwarranted, unprofessional, and disturbing? Yes.
 

Parasondox

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omega 616 said:
HOWEVER, even though that is true (and I am sure I am about to get a lot of quotes saying other wise) men are the main problem.

How often do you see/hear men complimenting each other the same way? The OP says he "I would say it to guys too" really? What do you say "hi gorgeous"? "looking ripped today!"? Ever send a message to a random guy on a social site and tell him he looks stunning? what about handsome?
Looks like you haven't met me then. Hi, I'm Para. As well as complimenting women, I also do it to men openly. Saying if a guy was handsome, beautiful, stunning and gorgeous. Don't assume you know me when you really don't.
 

Olas

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I think regardless of your thoughts on the act itself, we can probably all agree that calling it "sexist" is incorrect. Complementing someone's appearance is not inherently sexual. I hear women call other women "stunning" periodically without any sexual basis, so why is it different if this guy does it? The word can even be used on inanimate objects.

Ya, this isn't sexism, not by any practical definition that I can think of.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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Dango said:
Secondhand Revenant said:
Dango said:
It just seems like the guy thought a quick way of getting her to want to work with him was to flatter her or to appeal to her ego (which to be fair, works in RPGs all the time).

I mean yeah it was a dumb move but it's an overreaction by her and not really news worthy.
Aside from what looks like a throwaway last line that's pretty much a 'Anyways good to meet you' I'm not seeing anything in it that looks like it's trying to get a serious working relationship

Considering he's a senior partner and she's working for her PHD I don't think it particularly makes sense to try and butter her up to offer her work.

I also wonder how you interpret something preceded with 'I know this is really politically incorrect' to be an attempt to butter someone up. It looks like you give him the total benefit of the doubt and none to her.
I just think her reaction just feels like she was looking for a reason to be angry or offended. I think they both made mistakes, though reading the article my response is along the lines of: I'm happy she was willing to express her anger over her interpretation of the message, but I don't necessarily agree with her interpretation of it." I'm willing to see things from both persons' points of view (pluralization is weird) and doing so doesn't make me lean towards her. My old experience of being totally socially inept makes me more willing to believe this man is just kind of stupid and worded things badly.
So from his point of view you twist it into trying to be working together despite the entire context of the message. And his later clear lie that he was commenting on the compisition of the photo (it's a pretty obvious lie going by the political correctness comment)

Whereas she explicitly says she gets a lot of stupid messages and is tired of it. But you try to see it from her side so you decide the truth is she was looking for an excuse to be offended

Really.

That's on top of how I think the release of a message that was assumed to be private is somewhat cruel, even given the circumstances, given how willing the internet is willing to after anything, that's something I think was irresponsible of her.
Oh if you want to talk about context maybe you should consider how often women get creepy messages like that.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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Olas said:
I think regardless of your thoughts on the act itself, we can probably all agree that calling it "sexist" is incorrect. Complementing someone's appearance is not inherently sexual. I hear women call other women "stunning" periodically without any sexual basis, so why is it different if this guy does it? The word can even be used on inanimate objects.

Ya, this isn't sexism, not by any practical definition that I can think of.
So you don't believe in context to comments? One guy calls his friend an idiot so any time he's called an idiot and gets mad it's just incomprehensible why he doesn't like the word then since he didn't mind it before?