It's ultimately fear or resentment of a culture that someone just doesn't understand and passes it off as alien and evil, or the remaining aftershocks of when all of the races of the world combined. Don't forget your history - we've all done some terrible things to each other, and once upon a time, there were no black people in America, no Asians in Britain, and no white people in Africa. People were shunned and feared because they were from places that previously people from other countries didn't know existed, with different skin tones they'd never seen, different languages they'd never heard. We were stupid and barbaric as a species and as such, that shock became loathing. Some people are still archaic Neanderthals and have carried their foul, ignorant ideals down through the generations, poisoning the minds of their kids as they go. (The above statement is most likely incredibly ignorant of history but you get the picture.)
I don't 'get' Racism...
- Thread starter Sizzle Montyjing
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lunncal said:
FINE, bad example... haha.. Back in the early 19th century the Irish immigrants arrived and were treated with more disgust then African Americans. They were called green Ni**ers. It was popularly said that an Irishmen would do for a nickel what a n**ger would do for a dime. The Italians were looked down upon similarly but not as bad. Maybe its due to them being "un-Germanic" enough Like the English, French etcetc...idk exactly. Wacth Gangs of New York tho for goodexample. Its about the first Irishimmigrants, their struggles and..GANG FIGHTS THAT WOULD MAKE TODAYS DRIVE BYS LOOK PU**YISH!
It's because people like feeling special. Racism is born from the desire to believe that there is something intrinsically "better" about your group than others. Race is an visible distinguishing characteristic that allows people to group themselves. And as well all know, humans like to belong to the "best" group - and even if there isn't a "best" group, they'll find "reasons" to call their group the best group.
And that's where racism comes from. People want to feel pride, and they don't want to have to do anything to earn pride or respect or a sense of community. Rather than work hard to be respected, or bother to find those with similar interests, or take the time to build community relations, lazy people take pride in their race.
I will be brutally honest about it: Being proud of your race is stupid. No matter what that race is. You did nothing to be born the race you are. You had no say in whether or not you were born Caucasian, African, Asian, Pacific Islander, Arab, Persian, Hispanic or Indigenous. You didn't "earn" your race - you were born with it. Likewise, the achievements of others in your race are not your achievements. There's nothing more pathetic than someone deriving their sense of pride and place vicariously through the actions of others.
A white person discovered the laws of electromagnetism. You, even if you are white, did not, and have no right to feel "pride" through it. You can (and should!) respect what Michael Faraday did, but to try to take his achievement and use it to feel good about yourself is stupid. Achievements belong to the individuals who achieved them, and in a way, the society that made it possible.
A Chinese Admiral sailed across the seas and discovered much on his mighty treasure ships. You, even if you are chinese, did not. You have no right to feel pride from Zheng He's feats of exploration. You can respect what Zheng He was able to achieve, but unless it was YOU who sailed around the world on those boats, or unless you helped build those boats, you've got no "right" to feel any sort of pride from what another person accomplished.
An Arab mathematician was the first to discover many of the mathematical laws governing optics. You, even if you are Arab, have no right to feel any sort of "pride" from the works of Alhazen. You respect Alhazen and his enormous contributions to mathematics (and they were considerable). But you yourself did not discover them or help discover them. What right do you have to feel any sort of pride in what another accomplished?
So, I have pretty much demolished any logical reason why anyone would gain pride from race. But people are not logical. People are often very illogical. Deriving one's sense of self-worth from whatever race they are, is easy. It's simple. You don't have to lift a finger. Which is why racism is so popular. Racism allows people to feel special without them having to do a thing to earn it. And it's not enough to glean nonsensical pride from whatever skin colour they have, they've got to put down other races in order to make themselves feel superior.
Now, I've studied my fair share of genetics. I have looked into the genetic differences between races and I have to tell you: going by the best science we have today, the genetic differences between races is so small as to be irrelevant. There exists the same amount of genetic variation between individuals as between races: what I'm saying is that two individuals of the same race will have about the same genetic variation as two individuals of different races. Whites, Blacks, Asians, Arabs - even in supposedly "different" races, many genetic variations are shared. Going by THE BEST evidence we've got, either humanity is all one race or every SINGLE PERSON is their own individual race.
The concept of race itself is fluid and makes little sense. Go back 200 years, and Europeans divided themselves by race in the same way they are quick to divide africans and asians by race. 200 years ago, Irish was seen as a separate race, with the English-Americans looking down on the Irish as "savages", who were all drunks or criminals. Today, they are no longer seen as a "separate" race in the US. In Africa, people will see another group of people as a "different" tribe or race based on the fact that they live on the other side of a mountain, despite the fact that they look the same and are genetically indistinguishable from each other. I can't tell any difference between Chinese and Japanese people, yet all the Chinese and Japanese people I've worked with are adamant that they are two "different" types of people.
It's all nonsense. Genetics and racial mixing PROVE that we are all one species. Skin Colour, facial structure - meaningless, surface differences. I myself am Half-Chinese, Half-Caucasian. I am 100% human. I am just as intelligent, just as humane and just as healthy as anyone else. Yet I am of no one race. I am equal parts Chinese and English, yet I'm no different to any English person or Chinese person that I've met. I can only come to the conclusion that there really are no differences between Chinese and English people. I can donate blood to both of them. I can talk to both of them. Both have the emotions of love, anger, happiness, hate, sadness, longing - both sets of people have the same emotions, the same sorts of lives, and that's because they're of the same species.
But people don't want to acknowledge that. They don't want to feel brotherhood and unity, they want to feel special and superior, so they insist, despite all the scientific evidence we have today, that races are different. Because it allows them (Chinese and English and any other race) to justify atrocities, it allows them to justify their hate and their sense of smugness and why "they" should be the ones to "rule the world".
Also, I should point out, racism isn't a "white" thing. I've lived in many countries and I've talked to many people of all races and there exists racism in every single country under the sun. The Japanese are racist against the Chinese who are racist against the Indians who are racist against the Arabs who are racist against the Persians who are racist against the Arabs as well, and the Russians are racist to the Mongolians who are racist to the Chinese who are racist towards the Indonesians who are racist against Singaporeans who are racist against the Africans, and the Africans have enough racism to go amongst themselves let alone other people, and the Irish are racist against the English who are (somewhat) racist against the Scots. The Germans are racist against the Ukranians who also don't like the Poles who also don't like Italians who are Racist against the Africans. Egyptians are racist against Somalis who are Racist against Ethiopians. The world has so much meaningless, nonsensical racism all due to the fact that people want to feel special and different and superior to each other. A lot of people love the idea that they are better than anyone else, thus deserving of more "rights" and "privileges" than anyone else.
The first instances of racism also came about because people needed a justification to fight and steal from other groups. Skin Colour and Geographical location became that justification. The idea that Blacks were subhuman was invented by whites to justify slavery. The idea that the slavic people's were somehow "subhuman" was invented by Hitler to justify stealing the land. The idea that the Tibetans were "mentally unable to govern themselves" was invented by the Chinese to make them feel better about stealing the Tibetan's land. The idea that some other tribe can be destroyed because they have a different skin colour/language/religion/economic system/clothes is common.
TL
R?
HUMANS CAN BE SELFISH JERKS.
And that's where racism comes from. People want to feel pride, and they don't want to have to do anything to earn pride or respect or a sense of community. Rather than work hard to be respected, or bother to find those with similar interests, or take the time to build community relations, lazy people take pride in their race.
I will be brutally honest about it: Being proud of your race is stupid. No matter what that race is. You did nothing to be born the race you are. You had no say in whether or not you were born Caucasian, African, Asian, Pacific Islander, Arab, Persian, Hispanic or Indigenous. You didn't "earn" your race - you were born with it. Likewise, the achievements of others in your race are not your achievements. There's nothing more pathetic than someone deriving their sense of pride and place vicariously through the actions of others.
A white person discovered the laws of electromagnetism. You, even if you are white, did not, and have no right to feel "pride" through it. You can (and should!) respect what Michael Faraday did, but to try to take his achievement and use it to feel good about yourself is stupid. Achievements belong to the individuals who achieved them, and in a way, the society that made it possible.
A Chinese Admiral sailed across the seas and discovered much on his mighty treasure ships. You, even if you are chinese, did not. You have no right to feel pride from Zheng He's feats of exploration. You can respect what Zheng He was able to achieve, but unless it was YOU who sailed around the world on those boats, or unless you helped build those boats, you've got no "right" to feel any sort of pride from what another person accomplished.
An Arab mathematician was the first to discover many of the mathematical laws governing optics. You, even if you are Arab, have no right to feel any sort of "pride" from the works of Alhazen. You respect Alhazen and his enormous contributions to mathematics (and they were considerable). But you yourself did not discover them or help discover them. What right do you have to feel any sort of pride in what another accomplished?
So, I have pretty much demolished any logical reason why anyone would gain pride from race. But people are not logical. People are often very illogical. Deriving one's sense of self-worth from whatever race they are, is easy. It's simple. You don't have to lift a finger. Which is why racism is so popular. Racism allows people to feel special without them having to do a thing to earn it. And it's not enough to glean nonsensical pride from whatever skin colour they have, they've got to put down other races in order to make themselves feel superior.
Now, I've studied my fair share of genetics. I have looked into the genetic differences between races and I have to tell you: going by the best science we have today, the genetic differences between races is so small as to be irrelevant. There exists the same amount of genetic variation between individuals as between races: what I'm saying is that two individuals of the same race will have about the same genetic variation as two individuals of different races. Whites, Blacks, Asians, Arabs - even in supposedly "different" races, many genetic variations are shared. Going by THE BEST evidence we've got, either humanity is all one race or every SINGLE PERSON is their own individual race.
The concept of race itself is fluid and makes little sense. Go back 200 years, and Europeans divided themselves by race in the same way they are quick to divide africans and asians by race. 200 years ago, Irish was seen as a separate race, with the English-Americans looking down on the Irish as "savages", who were all drunks or criminals. Today, they are no longer seen as a "separate" race in the US. In Africa, people will see another group of people as a "different" tribe or race based on the fact that they live on the other side of a mountain, despite the fact that they look the same and are genetically indistinguishable from each other. I can't tell any difference between Chinese and Japanese people, yet all the Chinese and Japanese people I've worked with are adamant that they are two "different" types of people.
It's all nonsense. Genetics and racial mixing PROVE that we are all one species. Skin Colour, facial structure - meaningless, surface differences. I myself am Half-Chinese, Half-Caucasian. I am 100% human. I am just as intelligent, just as humane and just as healthy as anyone else. Yet I am of no one race. I am equal parts Chinese and English, yet I'm no different to any English person or Chinese person that I've met. I can only come to the conclusion that there really are no differences between Chinese and English people. I can donate blood to both of them. I can talk to both of them. Both have the emotions of love, anger, happiness, hate, sadness, longing - both sets of people have the same emotions, the same sorts of lives, and that's because they're of the same species.
But people don't want to acknowledge that. They don't want to feel brotherhood and unity, they want to feel special and superior, so they insist, despite all the scientific evidence we have today, that races are different. Because it allows them (Chinese and English and any other race) to justify atrocities, it allows them to justify their hate and their sense of smugness and why "they" should be the ones to "rule the world".
Also, I should point out, racism isn't a "white" thing. I've lived in many countries and I've talked to many people of all races and there exists racism in every single country under the sun. The Japanese are racist against the Chinese who are racist against the Indians who are racist against the Arabs who are racist against the Persians who are racist against the Arabs as well, and the Russians are racist to the Mongolians who are racist to the Chinese who are racist towards the Indonesians who are racist against Singaporeans who are racist against the Africans, and the Africans have enough racism to go amongst themselves let alone other people, and the Irish are racist against the English who are (somewhat) racist against the Scots. The Germans are racist against the Ukranians who also don't like the Poles who also don't like Italians who are Racist against the Africans. Egyptians are racist against Somalis who are Racist against Ethiopians. The world has so much meaningless, nonsensical racism all due to the fact that people want to feel special and different and superior to each other. A lot of people love the idea that they are better than anyone else, thus deserving of more "rights" and "privileges" than anyone else.
The first instances of racism also came about because people needed a justification to fight and steal from other groups. Skin Colour and Geographical location became that justification. The idea that Blacks were subhuman was invented by whites to justify slavery. The idea that the slavic people's were somehow "subhuman" was invented by Hitler to justify stealing the land. The idea that the Tibetans were "mentally unable to govern themselves" was invented by the Chinese to make them feel better about stealing the Tibetan's land. The idea that some other tribe can be destroyed because they have a different skin colour/language/religion/economic system/clothes is common.
TL
R? HUMANS CAN BE SELFISH JERKS.
I get what you are saying but is it racist to fear/hate other cultures? Isnt that more like xenophopia? Since racism is about thinking you are inherently better because of youre skin color, not because of youre social upbringing.Ryank1908 said:
A guy who thinks person of other color is my lesser, even if the other person is raised in exact same way and culture, is racist.
A guy who thinks other person is evil or alien because of his culutural background, is a xenophobe. Skin color is less in play here. ( I think a good example would be egyptian christians and muslims. Lots of tension and hate between those two, yet no difference in skin color.)
Thats how I've always interpetred it. Could be wrong I guess, but I dont see these two automatically as the same thing.
Edit: The above post of TL
R rant has so many good points it Burns. Please read it.
I was just sorta thinking about this yesterday. I mean I get that people use others as scapegoats, but I have a hard time holding a grudge on people who really fuck with. I couldn't imagine having one because someone 'likes to eat chicken' or 'is good at math' or 'has sex with corpses ([sub]Canadians[/sub])
Racial difference is just one of those things that selfish people just took advantage of to declare that they were better, giving their "almighty" ego's a false sense of satisfaction.
Racists may have seen other ethnicities do bad things (such as the Irish gang fights you mentioned), but to somehow decide that the reason they do these bad things is due to their ethnicity is illogical and ignorant. The only reason it happens at all is that people are already scared of the differences, so they are eager to attribute negative things to it.Vandenberg1 said:
If a white person saw another white person steal their car, they would think that the thief was a bad person. If a white person saw a black person steal their car, their natural (and illogical and irrational) fear of those that are different might cause them to decide that all black people were bad people. This is completely ignorant of the truth (that skin colour does not cause you to be a bad person), and my explanation still applies.
Because countless years of evolution has favored organisms genetically programed to prefer those creatures within a somewhat genetically related, mutually beneficial tribe, and to mercilessly exploit any that do not provide similar advantages. Race is a convenient indicator of whats genetically more desireable for propagating your genes. Decent people understand the irrationality and try there best to dismiss it, but everyone is touched by it on some remote level.
Thanks for all the replies people.
But i thought that racism stemed from the fact that balck people were enslaved, hence becoming slaves and just simply becoming possesions and non-human things in our (thankfully, not us it would seem) eyes, and once they became 'people' so to speak a lot of that meantality was retained.
But then i realised that it doesn't apply to other nationalities.
Racism... so pointless.
But i thought that racism stemed from the fact that balck people were enslaved, hence becoming slaves and just simply becoming possesions and non-human things in our (thankfully, not us it would seem) eyes, and once they became 'people' so to speak a lot of that meantality was retained.
But then i realised that it doesn't apply to other nationalities.
Racism... so pointless.
I think a partial explanation for racism (and prejudice in general) is that we generally associate any group other than our own with the most obnoxious members of that other group, because they get our attention.
Inside of our own group, we already take for granted that there are some incredibly nice people and some total assholes. We judge other groups (race, sexual orientation, gender, religion) based on the ones who are the most noticeable. They also usually tend to be the most aggravating.
While driving, I might pass (and get passed by) a hundred drivers of predominantly african descent, and not even notice, because they're not really affecting my day. However, the moment somebody cuts me off, or nearly runs me off the road because they didn't check their blind spot before changing lanes, I'll look to see who this jerk is. If it's a white guy, I'll mutter "moron" under my breath. If he's black... "Wow, n****rs can't drive!". Or "Women can't drive", "Ch**ks can't drive", "S**cs can't drive", or "Quebecois can't drive!".
If a black guy is quietly walking down the street, I won't pay him (or the twenty or so other unobtrusive black men) any mind, because he's not doing anything to attract my attention. I WILL notice the black guy who's being excessively loud, and, hey, look, black people sure are loud, aren't they?
I actually had a guy in Toronto comment to me about how annoying and loud American tourists are, not realizing that I was an American tourist because I WASN'T being loud and obnoxious. He was embarrassed when I pointed my nationality out to him, but I assured him that after encountering several groups of loud, obnoxious American tourists that day, I was starting to hate Americans too.
Inside of our own group, we already take for granted that there are some incredibly nice people and some total assholes. We judge other groups (race, sexual orientation, gender, religion) based on the ones who are the most noticeable. They also usually tend to be the most aggravating.
While driving, I might pass (and get passed by) a hundred drivers of predominantly african descent, and not even notice, because they're not really affecting my day. However, the moment somebody cuts me off, or nearly runs me off the road because they didn't check their blind spot before changing lanes, I'll look to see who this jerk is. If it's a white guy, I'll mutter "moron" under my breath. If he's black... "Wow, n****rs can't drive!". Or "Women can't drive", "Ch**ks can't drive", "S**cs can't drive", or "Quebecois can't drive!".
If a black guy is quietly walking down the street, I won't pay him (or the twenty or so other unobtrusive black men) any mind, because he's not doing anything to attract my attention. I WILL notice the black guy who's being excessively loud, and, hey, look, black people sure are loud, aren't they?
I actually had a guy in Toronto comment to me about how annoying and loud American tourists are, not realizing that I was an American tourist because I WASN'T being loud and obnoxious. He was embarrassed when I pointed my nationality out to him, but I assured him that after encountering several groups of loud, obnoxious American tourists that day, I was starting to hate Americans too.
I suppose with intelligence comes feelings of superiority, kinda makes you wonder how intelligent, or lacking thereof, some people are. Especially when the majority of people who think they are better than others should have been taken by Darwinian law yonks ago.
Racism isn't something you 'get.' Nor will you ever. Put simply, it's irrational. It stems from fear, ignorance and a lack of (proper) education. Ever had a phobia? Been afraid of something you know you shouldn't logically? Same concept.
I 100% agree, i used to have mates that were black, asian and mediteranean when i was in primary school, i knew they were a different colour than me but it never even crossed my mind that that made us different.Worgen said:
[rant]
while i myself am against rasism, i can see where people get rasist ideas from. I live in england, and there are a lot of people where i live that you can tell grew up in a different country, in fact, quite a lot of people where i live don't speak english much if at all. While i don't understand why it would be conscidered a negative, there are a lot of differences in the way people think and act depending on what type of society they grew up in.
Some people see cultural differences as a means of discriminating about how they are superior becasue they're in their own country. While i don't believe it makes me superior, i don't like it when the english government allow loads of people from war or poverty ridden countries to come into our contry, take our homes, and our jobs and we in turn get treated like second class citizens because we've lived in england our whole lives and don't need to be buttered up to.
I think our government just doesn't get what to do to help other people. we should be helping to make their home countries a healthy and prosperous place to live, rather than bundelling as many people into a tiny island as possible.
[/rant]
It's not the colour of the skin. It's how they are, Chris Rock did it best. A respectful black businessman is just a man. But the black guy who blindsides you and steals your wallet is a ******.
Yeah, tht's the thing i'm getting at, that theory doesn't cover all forms of racism, and people enslaving their own people doesn't really form racism, since they are the same race to you, but it does crate something equally as terrible.Stublore said:
And i don't see were monopoly comes into this...
It's "us and them", simplising the world to colours, names, sounds, etc and labeling them "evil" or "good" or whatever. It's a whole load of shit, but it's what some people do.
In South Africa, everyone's a racist. Blacks and whites. Everybody pretty much just hates each other. Whites blame crime on blacks, blacks just blame whites for whatever. I'm not a part of any of this as I believe in peace.
The main thing one must understand about Racism, at least the main thing I understand about it, is that racism, like many other hatreds that exist for seemingly no reason come from a combination of the Bible and the general aspect of human nature of finding something about someone else that makes you superior or makes them inferior. It is said in the bible that the darker your skin tone, the more sin your body contains within it, so racism may have evolved from the idea that whites were pure of heart because their skin was lighter and therefore better. Same thing with sexism, or homophobia. The Bible tells us that homosexuality is wrong, as well as telling many a story about how women cause calamity and chaos, such as the original sin caused by Eve when she ate the Fruit of Knowledge.
Now, this isn't to say that only white males are in the wrong. It is general human nature to try and find yourself superior to others and to treat those whom you feel are lesser than yourself like shit.
Now, this isn't to say that only white males are in the wrong. It is general human nature to try and find yourself superior to others and to treat those whom you feel are lesser than yourself like shit.