People go around normal channels when the normal channels do not yield a desired result. The solution is for those that ARE in he process to do better. It's basically their own fault.
I don't like the idea of importing to get around localization issues
- Thread starter gyrobot_v1legacy
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Yakuza 5 was released in the us, though! I imagine you know, but I'm pointing it out anyway just in case, because everyone who's interested needs to buy it, since SEGA is SEGA and SEGA sucks at localizing stuff.
With regard to the thrust of your topic... it's a bit political, and I tend to avoid political talk relating to gaming for my own sanity... but I consume a pretty absurd amount of japanese content, so I guess I'll weigh in.
I'm of two minds on the issue. Importing is the only way to get the really super niche games, many of which never get proper localizations. Importing because of something you don't like about the official localization? I understand why some do it, but it's not something I'd do, personally.
I like english dubs fine, I think they get a bad rap. That said, one opinion isn't better than any other, and if not having japanese audio is a deal breaker for someone, they have the right to import instead. Ditto for the various localization script or content changes.
I WILL say that I do everything I can to support localization companies, because I like having the option to obtain functioning and officially translated japanese games, rather than having no choice but to get games in a language I can't understand, and be forced to consult wikis or walkthroughs to experience it properly, or download emulators and deal with the hassle of finding fan translations.
With regard to the thrust of your topic... it's a bit political, and I tend to avoid political talk relating to gaming for my own sanity... but I consume a pretty absurd amount of japanese content, so I guess I'll weigh in.
I'm of two minds on the issue. Importing is the only way to get the really super niche games, many of which never get proper localizations. Importing because of something you don't like about the official localization? I understand why some do it, but it's not something I'd do, personally.
I like english dubs fine, I think they get a bad rap. That said, one opinion isn't better than any other, and if not having japanese audio is a deal breaker for someone, they have the right to import instead. Ditto for the various localization script or content changes.
I WILL say that I do everything I can to support localization companies, because I like having the option to obtain functioning and officially translated japanese games, rather than having no choice but to get games in a language I can't understand, and be forced to consult wikis or walkthroughs to experience it properly, or download emulators and deal with the hassle of finding fan translations.
So that's the rub: okay I get it a bit clearer. Australia still uses the X rating, but it's exclusively for pornographic material. We've got G (everyone) PG (parental guidance recommended) M15+ (Anyone under 15 must have a guardian, this is what most PG-13 movies end up as) and then we have MA15+ (not recommended for viewers under 15) and then R18+ (not suitable for viewers under 18) so while Australia can be puritanical with this shit like when something gets refused classification and then the legal waters become murky as to whether it's allowed to be imported or not, we've got a significant sliding scale to sort items into. And after much lobbying, we got the same system applied to games. Still hasn't helped with items hit with RC, but at least there's consistency.Avnger said:
I dont see how you were forced to hold your tongue. Seems like a better idea than blaming a completely unrelated company and fanbase for a company not bringing a game you wanted to play out would be to blame the company that didnt bring the game you wanted to play over. I wouldnt even describe the two companies as "niche rivals", beyond both being Japanese yearly installment games they have very little in common. And you're completing ignoring any other factors that went into Yazuza not being brought over, I dont think its CH's fault Sega of America and Europe were downsizing at the time and focusing on better selling franchisesgyrobot said:
That analogy implies the consumer did something wrong
They are supporting the people who made the game, you're making it sound like they're all going and pirating it. They just aren't supporting the localization branch, because they dont want their money.
What measures would you suggest they take instead?
Why did they bring Yakuza 5 over eventually if they initially didn't because the press were talking about questionable Japanese games? They do that more than ever nowgyrobot said:
I love Yakuza, so I kept track of what came over and what didn't, and why. It's simple... it didn't sell very well. Most Americans are no more charmed and intrigued by it, than they are by Genshiken. Localization of a game with so much content is expensive, and it wasn't making enough money.
No need to go off on a rant that a teenage edge-lord on 4chan would find predictable.
No need to go off on a rant that a teenage edge-lord on 4chan would find predictable.
Thats the issue here. The TC speaks as though fans owe the random, irrelevant to the creation of their object of fandom localizers their money, which is absurd, ethnocentric (since he only seems to speak about anglo-american localizers who translate things in English, what about all those folks to whom English is a foreign language which they give no damn about such as myself lol) and ultimately his reasoning leads to these fans somehow being bad fans for not supporting everything these localizers localize, be it their object of fandom or not, for the purpose of displaying some mystical demand for such games, in hopes they may get the actual games they want to play localized at some unspecified point down the road.The Bucket said:
Well, that sounds a LOT less certain to bear fruit than just picking up a textbook and some pritnouts and getting on with your Japaese lessons while giving those localizers the middle finger back, if you ask me. Importig stuff like Moe Chronicles with English Asian versions is also a great option too. To demonize it as such is ridiculous. If you wanna blame someone, blame the official western publishers. Not all of em are shit, Xseed and Aksys do a fine job still. The rest should follow their example.
My reasoning is the because the press who reviews these games are mostly concerned with how it fits their political tastes that they have compared it to unplayable trash. Sega relies on the press for their professional opinions and if the press hates Japanese games, then they can expect less sales than a market which has been lauding Japanese games.The Bucket said:
Really though, Sony busted their ass and told Sega, "Give the west another chance, we will even foot the bill". Sony wanted Japanese Games in the library that wasn't a panty quest. The Vita suffers for it aside from the memory cards because the library simply sucks balls. Without Gio Corsi's help we would be stuck with CH's standard fare and even these days CH is feeling the noose around their necks.
They are supporting the people who made the game, you're making it sound like they're all going and pirating it. They just aren't supporting the localization branch, because they dont want their money.
Not supporting shovelware and creating the aura of solidarity that I see on Steam's reviews. The amount of worship they ahve for Neptunia is best described as a way to reject what the press thinks is considered good gamesThe Bucket said:
I find it bizzare and all sorts of arrogant if you can't fathom why people like neptunia to the degree that you have to think of such a convoluted scenario to explain why people like em. I just like the gaming in jokes and high level otaku humor, the JP VAs are all top tier so as an anime fan I love most of em. Eplecially Noir who is also Kurisu from Steins;Gate. Anyways, point is, it isn't shovelware just cause you don't like it lol. I didn't care for Portal but I never went around telling all the portal fans on steam I think their game is bad.gyrobot said:
Instead, focus your blame on the press and their actions. If your theory is correct, once they change their tunes, so will the Compa fans. It also has the benefit of being eaier to achieve than beating back the nepnep.
Your reasoning is based on literally no evidence, there's no proof of a Sony partnership and it isnt like Yakuza was ever involved in a controversy, it never sold that well because nobody bought it since Sega never marketed it. And plenty Japanese games are being brought West that aren't "panty quests"; Dark Souls, Street Fighter, Cyber Sleuth, Gravity Rush 2, Persona 5. All of these are much bigger than any of CH's output, they're a small niche company, they dont have a stranglehold on anything.gyrobot said:
Not buying Neptunia does nothing to support Yakuza, a comedy RPG failing would do nothing to prove the viability of crime drama brawler.
The press has little time for the little guy, they are too busy ensuring the big companies fulfill their criteria of what makes a good game and sadly Neptunia games aren't very good games. They are low brow exploitation genre tier games that has a massive following due to the ideological difference between what the press think is a good game and what the average gamer with enough time to voice an opinion think it's a good game.Dreiko said:
You know you hit a low point when the press give you the cold shoulder
Yes, I know they have no time for regular folk, my point there was that even then it's still easier than beating back the nepnep.gyrobot said:
And again, that's like, your opinion dude. They are high level otaku humor games, the more of the in-jokes and references you get, the more fun the experience. Their fanservice while certainty there is not nearly as much their selling point as you make it out to be, especially compared to stuff like Senran Kagura.
Like, for example, in one of the anime episodes there was this charafter called Abnes-chan who was in an evil campaign to ban all young girls from being goddesses. That's all basic evil mastermind stuff, no surprise there. Well, unless you know that there exists an actual person called Agnes, whom 2chan calls Agnes-chan, and she is a Chinese singer and member of a cult who campaigned in Japan in order to get loli anime/manga banned, in reality. That a series would take such an obvious shot like that is all kinds of hilarious and the fun had when you first realize they really went there and it isn't your imagination, a moment you run into a lot in these games, is why they're fun. Of course, depending on how much of this stuff you even know, your mileage will vary.
That's not how it works...gyrobot said:
Magazines, or websites like this, have a limited number pages/budget for content. And not all content will be reviews, of course. They need priorities in order to make it work, and publications that specialise in one type of game aside, those priorities are often something like this:
1. Triple A titles (this is what most readers pay for/click on!)
2. Lesser known games/franchises from wellknown companies that look like they could be good and/or hot new indiegames (especially in case of PC gaming)
3. Titles recommended by the writers themselves
4. Filler (random games found in the editor-in-chief's inbox)
Back when Neptunia was new, it was sort of in categorie 3, something enthousiasts would try to get a spot for based on the premise of the game (videogame industry parody). Nowadays, it's pretty much filler, because the novelty has worn of.
It's a matter of demand. Neptunia is super niche, so the demand for reviews is low.
Heck, a magazine I work for is all about Japanese games (including niche stuff!) and even I don't give the Neptunia titles high priority. I'd much rather spend those pages on interesting looking new IP/original titles (which might be something from Compile Heart!) or a franchise that has had little to no exposure in the West (Summon Night, for instance).
Neptunia fans are not victims of the big bad press, they're just one of the many small fandoms we can't dedicate a lot of pages to. Because, you know, you need to make money if you want to pay your writers, and I heard somewhere that paying people for their work is the ethical thing to do.
@npc009
I really don't think Neptunia fans feel like victims. That is just the tc trying to explain why they don't REALLY like neptunia but are fans of it out of protest, somehow. Most of what you said is reasonable so I think the fans realize this and are fans just cause they actually like these games.
Oh and summon night is lovely, sucks the first US release of it gutted all the voice acting out though lol. They did get the rights for the summon night 3 char's voice in Project X Zone 2 so it wasn't licensing either it seems.
I really don't think Neptunia fans feel like victims. That is just the tc trying to explain why they don't REALLY like neptunia but are fans of it out of protest, somehow. Most of what you said is reasonable so I think the fans realize this and are fans just cause they actually like these games.
Oh and summon night is lovely, sucks the first US release of it gutted all the voice acting out though lol. They did get the rights for the summon night 3 char's voice in Project X Zone 2 so it wasn't licensing either it seems.
You could replace 'Neptunia fan' with pretty much any kind of fan of a niche thing. And holy crap, some do feel like the world/press is out to get them! The angry comments and e-mails I've seen...Dreiko said:
The annoying thing about Japanese voice talent is that if there's just one from a company that's being difficult, it puts everything at risk. It's especially bad when singing is involved...
Oh, well, I'm just glad I'll be able to play more SRPGs. Now, if only Gajinworks would get the European release of 5 back on track...
I guess I have been in the niche soup for so long I have accepted it so I can't see being mad over it but merely grateful for any press at all, especially with some of the things I like. You know blazblue, that super niche visual novel super competitive fighting game, how about we make a spinoff sidestory prequel which is a PURE visual novel, that will sell....and yes, lets make a sequel to the spinoff visual novel which ties it in with the newest blazblue that isn't even out yet, more than three people will definitely buy that! Ah well, Xblaze was still awesome and Es is playable now so there's that lol.NPC009 said:
Songs are a thing definitely, I still can't believe Tales of the Abyss didn't have Karma as an opening song in the west, that is one of my all time fav intros. SN6 also seems to be out for vita, hopefully that one keeps its voices.