People go around normal channels when the normal channels do not yield a desired result. The solution is for those that ARE in he process to do better. It's basically their own fault.
So that's the rub: okay I get it a bit clearer. Australia still uses the X rating, but it's exclusively for pornographic material. We've got G (everyone) PG (parental guidance recommended) M15+ (Anyone under 15 must have a guardian, this is what most PG-13 movies end up as) and then we have MA15+ (not recommended for viewers under 15) and then R18+ (not suitable for viewers under 18) so while Australia can be puritanical with this shit like when something gets refused classification and then the legal waters become murky as to whether it's allowed to be imported or not, we've got a significant sliding scale to sort items into. And after much lobbying, we got the same system applied to games. Still hasn't helped with items hit with RC, but at least there's consistency.Avnger said:That's a bit of a false comparison, actually. Nearly all retail stores don't sell movies or TV rated above "R" which is the equivalent of an ESRB "M." The equivalent to an AO rating from the ESRB would be an MPAA rating of "NC-17" (previously known as "X"). Almost no "regular" retail store stocks "NC-17" movies. Good luck finding a non-pornographic theater that shows "NC-17" movies also.Gordon_4 said:How is it the ESRB's fault that no retail store in the US has the minerals to stock games rated for adults the same way they stock movies just for adults? I don't consider rating something as 'Adults Only' to be a terrible thing, especially since it basically says "Yeah the content in here is pretty heinous, it isn't criminal but it isn't for people under the age of 18".CritialGaming said:Sniperttheking said:Snippity
Blame fuckers like Wal-Mart for being puritanical and maybe tell Gamestop to stop being such wusses and carry adults only games and just card every bugger that tries to buy them. It's what we fuckin' do.
In principal though, I completely agree with you. There is no "censoring" going on. AO games are perfectly legal to sell. Businesses are simply using their own rights to choose what to stock and what not to. They're the ones people should be protesting at.
I dont see how you were forced to hold your tongue. Seems like a better idea than blaming a completely unrelated company and fanbase for a company not bringing a game you wanted to play out would be to blame the company that didnt bring the game you wanted to play over. I wouldnt even describe the two companies as "niche rivals", beyond both being Japanese yearly installment games they have very little in common. And you're completing ignoring any other factors that went into Yazuza not being brought over, I dont think its CH's fault Sega of America and Europe were downsizing at the time and focusing on better selling franchisesgyrobot said:. Suddenly the CH audience comes out of the woodwork crying about how their games are taken away and while I was forced to bite my tongue when I was the one suffering
That analogy implies the consumer did something wrongIt is like a customer who had been banned from the restaurant because of a fussy eater causing drama paying the dishwasher to bring a meal to them with them paying a premium for it.
They are supporting the people who made the game, you're making it sound like they're all going and pirating it. They just aren't supporting the localization branch, because they dont want their money.You are not supporting the business
Why did they bring Yakuza 5 over eventually if they initially didn't because the press were talking about questionable Japanese games? They do that more than ever nowgyrobot said:When I said how companies like CH makes SEGA feel nervous about localization because of how they ruin people's perception of Japanese games I got shouted down.Saelune said:Why did you have to "bite your tongue" over Yakuza 5 not getting an initial localization? Cause...you could have complained.
Personally, Id think importing would actually make Japanese devs more likely to localize. It shows that there is an audience in other places. More so for games that usually aren't localized, not sure about games that no longer get localized.
I also don't see why you consider SEGA and Compile Heart as rivals.
When they are suffering from a localization drought and I told them they got what they deserved they gave the scarlet letter of beign a SJW Cuckold.
Thats the issue here. The TC speaks as though fans owe the random, irrelevant to the creation of their object of fandom localizers their money, which is absurd, ethnocentric (since he only seems to speak about anglo-american localizers who translate things in English, what about all those folks to whom English is a foreign language which they give no damn about such as myself lol) and ultimately his reasoning leads to these fans somehow being bad fans for not supporting everything these localizers localize, be it their object of fandom or not, for the purpose of displaying some mystical demand for such games, in hopes they may get the actual games they want to play localized at some unspecified point down the road.The Bucket said:I dont see how you were forced to hold your tongue. Seems like a better idea than blaming a completely unrelated company and fanbase for a company not bringing a game you wanted to play out would be to blame the company that didnt bring the game you wanted to play over. I wouldnt even describe the two companies as "niche rivals", beyond both being Japanese yearly installment games they have very little in common. And you're completing ignoring any other factors that went into Yazuza not being brought over, I dont think its CH's fault Sega of America and Europe were downsizing at the time and focusing on better selling franchisesgyrobot said:. Suddenly the CH audience comes out of the woodwork crying about how their games are taken away and while I was forced to bite my tongue when I was the one suffering
That analogy implies the consumer did something wrongIt is like a customer who had been banned from the restaurant because of a fussy eater causing drama paying the dishwasher to bring a meal to them with them paying a premium for it.
They are supporting the people who made the game, you're making it sound like they're all going and pirating it. They just aren't supporting the localization branch, because they dont want their money.You are not supporting the business
What measures would you suggest they take instead?
Why did they bring Yakuza 5 over eventually if they initially didn't because the press were talking about questionable Japanese games? They do that more than ever nowgyrobot said:When I said how companies like CH makes SEGA feel nervous about localization because of how they ruin people's perception of Japanese games I got shouted down.Saelune said:Why did you have to "bite your tongue" over Yakuza 5 not getting an initial localization? Cause...you could have complained.
Personally, Id think importing would actually make Japanese devs more likely to localize. It shows that there is an audience in other places. More so for games that usually aren't localized, not sure about games that no longer get localized.
I also don't see why you consider SEGA and Compile Heart as rivals.
When they are suffering from a localization drought and I told them they got what they deserved they gave the scarlet letter of beign a SJW Cuckold.
My reasoning is the because the press who reviews these games are mostly concerned with how it fits their political tastes that they have compared it to unplayable trash. Sega relies on the press for their professional opinions and if the press hates Japanese games, then they can expect less sales than a market which has been lauding Japanese games.The Bucket said:Why did they bring Yakuza 5 over eventually if they initially didn't because the press were talking about questionable Japanese games? They do that more than ever now
Not supporting shovelware and creating the aura of solidarity that I see on Steam's reviews. The amount of worship they ahve for Neptunia is best described as a way to reject what the press thinks is considered good gamesThe Bucket said:What measures would you suggest they take instead?
Well, duh. Why would you care about 'supporting the series'? I play games because I want to play them, not as a charitable donation to the pubs and devs.gyrobot said:Importing a game does not actively support a series, it is saying you are desperate enough to go to any lengths to get the game.
I find it bizzare and all sorts of arrogant if you can't fathom why people like neptunia to the degree that you have to think of such a convoluted scenario to explain why people like em. I just like the gaming in jokes and high level otaku humor, the JP VAs are all top tier so as an anime fan I love most of em. Eplecially Noir who is also Kurisu from Steins;Gate. Anyways, point is, it isn't shovelware just cause you don't like it lol. I didn't care for Portal but I never went around telling all the portal fans on steam I think their game is bad.gyrobot said:My reasoning is the because the press who reviews these games are mostly concerned with how it fits their political tastes that they have compared it to unplayable trash. Sega relies on the press for their professional opinions and if the press hates Japanese games, then they can expect less sales than a market which has been lauding Japanese games.The Bucket said:Why did they bring Yakuza 5 over eventually if they initially didn't because the press were talking about questionable Japanese games? They do that more than ever now
Really though, Sony busted their ass and told Sega, "Give the west another chance, we will even foot the bill". Sony wanted Japanese Games in the library that wasn't a panty quest. The Vita suffers for it aside from the memory cards because the library simply sucks balls. Without Gio Corsi's help we would be stuck with CH's standard fare and even these days CH is feeling the noose around their necks.
They are supporting the people who made the game, you're making it sound like they're all going and pirating it. They just aren't supporting the localization branch, because they dont want their money.
Not supporting shovelware and creating the aura of solidarity that I see on Steam's reviews. The amount of worship they ahve for Neptunia is best described as a way to reject what the press thinks is considered good gamesThe Bucket said:What measures would you suggest they take instead?
Your reasoning is based on literally no evidence, there's no proof of a Sony partnership and it isnt like Yakuza was ever involved in a controversy, it never sold that well because nobody bought it since Sega never marketed it. And plenty Japanese games are being brought West that aren't "panty quests"; Dark Souls, Street Fighter, Cyber Sleuth, Gravity Rush 2, Persona 5. All of these are much bigger than any of CH's output, they're a small niche company, they dont have a stranglehold on anything.gyrobot said:My reasoning is the because the press who reviews these games are mostly concerned with how it fits their political tastes that they have compared it to unplayable trash. Sega relies on the press for their professional opinions and if the press hates Japanese games, then they can expect less sales than a market which has been lauding Japanese games.The Bucket said:Why did they bring Yakuza 5 over eventually if they initially didn't because the press were talking about questionable Japanese games? They do that more than ever now
Really though, Sony busted their ass and told Sega, "Give the west another chance, we will even foot the bill". Sony wanted Japanese Games in the library that wasn't a panty quest. The Vita suffers for it aside from the memory cards because the library simply sucks balls. Without Gio Corsi's help we would be stuck with CH's standard fare and even these days CH is feeling the noose around their necks.
They are supporting the people who made the game, you're making it sound like they're all going and pirating it. They just aren't supporting the localization branch, because they dont want their money.
Not supporting shovelware and creating the aura of solidarity that I see on Steam's reviews. The amount of worship they ahve for Neptunia is best described as a way to reject what the press thinks is considered good gamesThe Bucket said:What measures would you suggest they take instead?
The press has little time for the little guy, they are too busy ensuring the big companies fulfill their criteria of what makes a good game and sadly Neptunia games aren't very good games. They are low brow exploitation genre tier games that has a massive following due to the ideological difference between what the press think is a good game and what the average gamer with enough time to voice an opinion think it's a good game.Dreiko said:I find it bizzare and all sorts of arrogant if you can't fathom why people like neptunia to the degree that you have to think of such a convoluted scenario to explain why people like em. I just like the gaming in jokes and high level otaku humor, the JP VAs are all top tier so as an anime fan I love most of em. Eplecially Noir who is also Kurisu from Steins;Gate. Anyways, point is, it isn't shovelware just cause you don't like it lol. I didn't care for Portal but I never went around telling all the portal fans on steam I think their game is bad.
Instead, focus your blame on the press and their actions. If your theory is correct, once they change their tunes, so will the Compa fans. It also has the benefit of being eaier to achieve than beating back the nepnep.
Yes, I know they have no time for regular folk, my point there was that even then it's still easier than beating back the nepnep.gyrobot said:The press has little time for the little guy, they are too busy ensuring the big companies fulfill their criteria of what makes a good game and sadly Neptunia games aren't very good games. They are low brow exploitation genre tier games that has a massive following due to the ideological difference between what the press think is a good game and what the average gamer with enough time to voice an opinion think it's a good game.Dreiko said:I find it bizzare and all sorts of arrogant if you can't fathom why people like neptunia to the degree that you have to think of such a convoluted scenario to explain why people like em. I just like the gaming in jokes and high level otaku humor, the JP VAs are all top tier so as an anime fan I love most of em. Eplecially Noir who is also Kurisu from Steins;Gate. Anyways, point is, it isn't shovelware just cause you don't like it lol. I didn't care for Portal but I never went around telling all the portal fans on steam I think their game is bad.
Instead, focus your blame on the press and their actions. If your theory is correct, once they change their tunes, so will the Compa fans. It also has the benefit of being eaier to achieve than beating back the nepnep.
You know you hit a low point when the press give you the cold shoulder
That's not how it works...gyrobot said:The press has little time for the little guy, they are too busy ensuring the big companies fulfill their criteria of what makes a good game and sadly Neptunia games aren't very good games. They are low brow exploitation genre tier games that has a massive following due to the ideological difference between what the press think is a good game and what the average gamer with enough time to voice an opinion think it's a good game.
You know you hit a low point when the press give you the cold shoulder
You could replace 'Neptunia fan' with pretty much any kind of fan of a niche thing. And holy crap, some do feel like the world/press is out to get them! The angry comments and e-mails I've seen...Dreiko said:@npc009
I really don't think Neptunia fans feel like victims. That is just the tc trying to explain why they don't REALLY like neptunia but are fans of it out of protest, somehow. Most of what you said is reasonable so I think the fans realize this and are fans just cause they actually like these games.
The annoying thing about Japanese voice talent is that if there's just one from a company that's being difficult, it puts everything at risk. It's especially bad when singing is involved...Oh and summon night is lovely, sucks the first US release of it gutted all the voice acting out though lol. They did get the rights for the summon night 3 char's voice in Project X Zone 2 so it wasn't licensing either it seems.
I guess I have been in the niche soup for so long I have accepted it so I can't see being mad over it but merely grateful for any press at all, especially with some of the things I like. You know blazblue, that super niche visual novel super competitive fighting game, how about we make a spinoff sidestory prequel which is a PURE visual novel, that will sell....and yes, lets make a sequel to the spinoff visual novel which ties it in with the newest blazblue that isn't even out yet, more than three people will definitely buy that! Ah well, Xblaze was still awesome and Es is playable now so there's that lol.NPC009 said:You could replace 'Neptunia fan' with pretty much any kind of fan of a niche thing. And holy crap, some do feel like the world/press is out to get them! The angry comments and e-mails I've seen...Dreiko said:@npc009
I really don't think Neptunia fans feel like victims. That is just the tc trying to explain why they don't REALLY like neptunia but are fans of it out of protest, somehow. Most of what you said is reasonable so I think the fans realize this and are fans just cause they actually like these games.
The annoying thing about Japanese voice talent is that if there's just one from a company that's being difficult, it puts everything at risk. It's especially bad when singing is involved...Oh and summon night is lovely, sucks the first US release of it gutted all the voice acting out though lol. They did get the rights for the summon night 3 char's voice in Project X Zone 2 so it wasn't licensing either it seems.
Oh, well, I'm just glad I'll be able to play more SRPGs. Now, if only Gajinworks would get the European release of 5 back on track...