I don't understand tipping culture...

[PBMcNair]

It is circular, but is that different than any other job that works on commission rather than fixed wage? Nobody balks at the sales commission when buying a camera, t-shirt, or vehicle; why do so over food?

I have absolutely no experience in jobs that work on commission, so I shouldn't comment.
I guess I just prefer for tips to be a reward. I am under no obligation to give one (even if I went to America). If I tip, its either small change to a tip jar, or directly for really good service or they had to deal with a large group(10+). And I leave it because I choose to, not out of guilt.



Edit:

Should be noted however, that some chain restaurants, pay them normal minimum wage, and the business itself, keeps the tips, as they are not 'tipped' workers.
(I believe subway is like this, and I'm pretty sure a lot of others are like that to.)

You have got to be kidding me. How does that make any kind of sense ?

If someone gives a waiter a tip its for them(or to be divided). If you don't want your waiters to be tipped, then don't let them be tipped. Or put those tips into a charity box. Or put it towards some kind of staff outing. But don't let customers tip, and have the company just take it.

 

[monkey_man]

I don't tip. It's the Netherlands here, as far as I know, people make plenty of money just by working. I have a lowpaying job in a supermarket, i don't get tipped, but I also help people find stuff.

If someone's an exceptional waiter, or just really pleasant. I might tip, depending on the amount of pocket change I have left. Tipping just because tipping defeats the entire principle of tipping. It's supposed to be "good workers get paid more, bad workers less, so they better work better", not "everyone gets extra money just cuz". I never understood why they don't just pay more to waiters in the US anyway, it seems like a stupid decision to even GO work in a foodplace then.

I've read stories that people who DIDN'T TIP got really bad service, like pizzaboys spitting in the food, or just making sure it's not as good as tipping customer's food. If your system leads to this sort of behaviour, the system is terrible. Don't do anything extra? No nice food for you!

 

[KingBlackToof]

I've read stories that people who DIDN'T TIP got really bad service, like pizzaboys spitting in the food, or just making sure it's not as good as tipping customer's food. If your system leads to this sort of behaviour, the system is terrible. Don't do anything extra? No nice food for you!

I live in the UK so I've never tipped, 1 place has the tip added to the bill. I felt quite insulted really.(In the UK)

But as Monkey_man said, I'm seeing a lot of reversal of roles nearly.
Instead of:
- Do Great! work = Customer gets great service and is Happy and thus tips.

It's turned into:
- Do Average work = Customer doesn't tip and is Antagonised and even abused.

I'm sorry but no matter if someone doesn't tip or not, there is no excuse to spit in peoples food.
It's disgusting.

Although I agree with with the notion that servers should try to change this less than minimum wage issue at government level.
Even if your society demands tipping, instead of of reducing your effort, instead point out the fact and ask how you can improve the experience for them next time.
Easier said than done possibly.

 

[Madmark123]

To pick up on some sentiments hinted in this thread, the problem with tipping, is that it can create a rather nasty kind of spectre over society. When I went to America, I couldn't help but feel that some people were artificially polite and nice, for the purpose of acquiring a tip. In my native Australia, where there is no "tipping culture", I feel that when someone is nice or polite, they are just being nice and polite, there is no economic motive.

To sound cliche, the problem with America is that its' people have become brainwashed by the neo-liberal one percent who pretty much control the media and thus the discourse in America about issues. This has led to Low wages, a poor education system, a large number of slums, inadequate amount of tax being charged by the government and an unfair distribution of taxes, unregulated bankers running wild, off shoring of jobs.

These factors have led to extreme poor and extreme wealthy, large slums, and the crime that comes with slums. Neo-liberalism has also led to homelessness, drug problems and the average american being worse off. Look at the wealth distribution statistics of the US, the rich are getting richer and everyone else is getting poorer. All one has to do is look at statistics of living conditions for the average person. Well managed social democratic countries like the UK, Scandanavia, Australia, and NZ etc have much better quality of living for the average person then the US. In Australia, I can go to the hospital and doctor for free, anyone who is of decent intelligence and work ethic can go to university, and everyone at least gets payed a livable(Barely) minimum wage. Sure we all pay a bit more tax, and the wealthy/companies pay more tax then in the US, but it is obvious that the results of this are good.

All Americans have the Vote. USE IT.

But I must be (Says with an american accent), "A filthy communist".

"this post is socialist, socialism is evil, did you know Hitler and Stalin were socialists?, Socialism is EVIL!!!! DERP DERP"

 

[DarkRyter]

I live in the UK so I've never tipped, 1 place has the tip added to the bill. I felt quite insulted really.(In the UK)

If it's really the UK, the tip is added to the bill EVERYWHERE YOU GO. Whether they build it into the cost of the food or have it stated on the bill really makes no difference. The waiter gets paid.

In America, people get to choose whether to pay the server (tip) or not.

 

[MASTACHIEFPWN]

If you want to tip, you're free to - but the service staff will not struggle with money any more than other people with an equivalent wage will if you don't.

In the state in which I live, the minimum cash wage for a tipped employee is $2.13 per hour, compaired to the minimum wage of a non-tipped employee, which is $7.25 per hour.
It's nearly impossible to live off of minimum wage, so how the hell could they do it with less than a third of that?

 

[Nielas]

If it's really the UK, the tip is added to the bill EVERYWHERE YOU GO. Whether they build it into the cost of the food or have it stated on the bill really makes no difference. The waiter gets paid.

In America, people get to choose whether to pay the server (tip) or not.

Do they really? In this thread alone, you get dozens of people who will consider you to be utter scum if you do not tip. Tipping in America seems to be culturally mandatory. Is it really a proper choice?

Personally, I prefer if the extra money is charged as a service fee on the bill since that makes it honest and up-front. I know before hand how much I will be charged when I order the food and can plan accordingly. I don't actually mind tipping people for good service but I utterly detest the passive-aggressive tipping system where people demand that I pay more but hide it behind a "choice".

 

[immortalfrieza]

If a waiter reports tips that, when combined with their normal 2 dollar hourly wage, fall under the legal minimum wage, the employer is legally obliged to cover the difference.

If a tip isn't given, the waiter didn't make any money for their service.

So which of these statements are correct ?

Isn't this whole thing ultimatly circular anyway ? Waiters are paid badly because they're expected to be paid in tips, and people tip because they're payed badly.

Exactly, it's a problem that's caused by itself and will never be solved as long as people continue to tip. Also, the problem with this:

If a waiter reports tips that, when combined with their normal 2 dollar hourly wage, fall under the legal minimum wage, the employer is legally obliged to cover the difference.

is that while the employers are legally required to pay the difference if the tips don't cover minimum wage, the server themselves have to report that fact, which considering how this kinda thing usually plays out, it no doubt carries a lot of hassles to pull off and the server will probably get fired for it.

 

[DarkRyter]

Exactly, it's a problem that's caused by itself and will never be solved as long as people continue to tip. Also, the problem with this:

If a waiter reports tips that, when combined with their normal 2 dollar hourly wage, fall under the legal minimum wage, the employer is legally obliged to cover the difference.

is that while the employers are legally required to pay the difference if the tips don't cover minimum wage, the server themselves have to report that fact, which considering how this kinda thing usually plays out, it no doubt carries a lot of hassles to pull off and the server will probably get fired for it.

Well, if a server really isn't making enough on tips in the long run, that's a sign of poor service (in which they probably should be fired) or the restaurant's not doing enough business (in which case, that is a problem with the position). It's no worse than a job with a regular wage. You do poorly, you get fired. The company's failing, you get fired, or preferably quit.

Isn't this whole thing ultimatly circular anyway ? Waiters are paid badly because they're expected to be paid in tips, and people tip because they're payed badly.

Waiters aren't paid badly though. For the amount of work the waiter actually does for the restaurant, the pennies they receive as a flat wage is entirely reasonable.

Waiters are paid by the people they work for, the patron. People in this thread seem to think tipping is some sort of "reward" or a charity to compensate low wages. It's not. It's payment for services rendered.

 

[The Material Sheep]

Having worked as a waitress for some time. Tips are where I got the majority of my money from. That being said, I still made far more then a min wage employee off my tips on a less then forty hour schedule. I suppose that's little more then anecdotal evidence but still.

Tipping is essential to the pay of the serving staff in some american businesses. It's not in most other countries. You theoretically have a better chance of making a higher grade pay grade then a min wage employee which is all the business is going to be able to afford, but you don't have the security of a locked in pay check. It's not as one sided as you might think, and there are benefits to being an exceptional waiter. Also, it's kind of hard to tax and track tips. Another benefit of not having a locked in pay check.

I can't say one system is more just then the other, but while I was waiting tables it was much better pay then a min wage job due to having tips.

 

[PBMcNair]

Waiters are paid by the people they work for, the patron.

Oh, they work for me ? Sweet, I hear that I can legally get away with paying them next nothing. Ain't capitalism grand?

People in this thread seem to think tipping is some sort of "reward" or a charity to compensate low wages. It's not. It's payment for services rendered.

Where you come from. It's payment for services rendered where you come from.
Where I come from it's not. Where I come from it's a reward.

We could go on all night sniping at each other, but I doubt it would lead to anything new being said.
I'm going to pull out of this, before I do/say something stupid.

 

[Seydaman]

If a food place pays you less than minimum wage in the US...can't you like...report them for breaking the law? Sue them?

OT: I don't like tips, I already paid for the food and the service.

 

[FireDr@gon]

Wow, this topic has gone into a 9-page debate... Time to add my 2 cents!


If no-one has mentioned this already it needs to be mentioned and it bears repeating anyway.

TIPS literally translates into: To.Insure.Proper.Service


TIPS doesn't actually mean "reward great service", nor is it payment for the service.

It's regrettable that some cultures have got this simple concept wrapped round their collective necks but regardless of it's misinterpretations the fact remains that a tip should be the consumers' choice.

I don't believe anybody should tip if they are unsatisfied with the service, even if tipping is expected of them. Anywhere that adds the tip onto the bill is getting it wrong too, although you can normally take your complaints up with the manager to settle the bill if the service was not worthy of a tip.
All that said, if you don't tip, you will probably be receiving shitty service next time, but then you probably won't return to an establishment where you received poor service anyway. So in a way it balances out.

One reason why tipping culture seems to be unfair in general; Think of all the shit jobs out there that you don't tip for. Do you tip people that collect your rubbish/garbage? no. Why not? it's a shit job too - they're doing you a service, why not tip them? How about if every person that did you a service did a bad job because you didn't tip? How would you like it if say, your hairdresser starting doing a shit job because you hadn't payed 10% extra?

There are plenty of countries where tipping is virtually mandatory. Try not tipping a taxi driver in Egypt, I dare you. But the principle of the thing is totally stupid. If they need more money, they should simply charge more upfront instead of relying on performance-based generosity.

Finally some more cynical people might believe that tipping is just another way for people to show off to their fellow diners, either how rich they are or how generous or both. I for one would be interested to see how much some people tip when alone compared to when they are with people they are trying to impress.

And just for the record:

1; I've worked some shit jobs in my time that were never (as Mr Pink puts it) deemed "tip worthy" and I've always been jealous of those that do. I've worked tons of jobs including bar staff and in a kitchen - when i was working behind the bar, i got bought drinks. why does no-one ever buy the chef a fucking drink?!

2;I've talked to people that have their tips split - it's so fucked up - if someone has earned their tip by going above and beyond the call of duty then they should get to keep it instead of having to share their reward with someone that doesn't try at all.

3; There are jobs which are 100% tip based, and waiting tables is NOT one of them. There are people, for example, that give free walking tours around capitol cities. If they do a bad job or if everyone in their group is broke or stingy, they don't get paid at all. In this instance I can see why it would be incredibly rude not to tip if you were happy with the service. Waiting staff get wages, these are paid by the customers - it's not a huge leap to see that expecting customers to pay twice is wrong.

And one more thing; on the 1st or 2nd page of this thread, some absolute nob-jockey said to someone "your post count is low but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt" As if their opinion/contribution would be any less valid because of the number of fucking times they've fucking posted on one fucking forum. You Sir/Madam need to get your head out of your fucking ass.

I guess that was more like $5 than 2 cents. Well, $5.50 if you include the tip...

 

[The Material Sheep]

If a food place pays you less than minimum wage in the US...can't you like...report them for breaking the law? Sue them?

OT: I don't like tips, I already paid for the food and the service.

No you can't because most states account for tips as being part of your income. Most people with tips make above minimum wage on average, it just has highs and lows.

 

[thethird0611]

If a food place pays you less than minimum wage in the US...can't you like...report them for breaking the law? Sue them?

OT: I don't like tips, I already paid for the food and the service.

To kind of extend on what thedarksheep said...

They can pay you less than minimum wage... IF you make enough tips to cover it. Here in Texas, people who run on tips can be paid as little as 2.13 an hour, but they MUST get at least the minimum wage of 7.25 an hour. If they dont, the employer must cover the rest of it.

EDIT:

If you want to tip, you're free to - but the service staff will not struggle with money any more than other people with an equivalent wage will if you don't.

In the state in which I live, the minimum cash wage for a tipped employee is $2.13 per hour, compaired to the minimum wage of a non-tipped employee, which is $7.25 per hour.
It's nearly impossible to live off of minimum wage, so how the hell could they do it with less than a third of that?

Because, like in Texas where the minimum wage for tipping employees is 2.13, if employees dont make 5.12 in tips for each hour they worked, the employer must cover the rest of it.

So, they are going to get minimum wage either way.

 

[Roamin11]

Wait people believe 5-10% is a good tip? I've always tipped 10-20%

Being in the industry (and a higher end restaurant) a tip is (at where I am employed) split between the kitchen and the servers. The tip or Gratuity doesn't actually cover the price of service, when you buy a meal, you buy the components that it took to make the meal, and only a small percentage of what you pay is for the process of making it.

So in essence I've always felt gratuity/tips are a way of saying "Hey thanks for severing me, and for this food actually being good" I always give 10% and tip 20% if I feel the service was good. After all, those servers gotta pay the bills somehow

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

If a food place pays you less than minimum wage in the US...can't you like...report them for breaking the law? Sue them?

OT: I don't like tips, I already paid for the food and the service.

To kind of extend on what thedarksheep said...

They can pay you less than minimum wage... IF you make enough tips to cover it. Here in Texas, people who run on tips can be paid as little as 2.13 an hour, but they MUST get at least the minimum wage of 7.25 an hour. If they dont, the employer must cover the rest of it.

EDIT:

If you want to tip, you're free to - but the service staff will not struggle with money any more than other people with an equivalent wage will if you don't.

In the state in which I live, the minimum cash wage for a tipped employee is $2.13 per hour, compaired to the minimum wage of a non-tipped employee, which is $7.25 per hour.
It's nearly impossible to live off of minimum wage, so how the hell could they do it with less than a third of that?

Because, like in Texas where the minimum wage for tipping employees is 2.13, if employees dont make 5.12 in tips for each hour they worked, the employer must cover the rest of it.

So, they are going to get minimum wage either way.

Yes, the employer must cover it, however, at many establishments in Texas, if the employer covers it, that employee will not be there very long. They make it "understood" that if you report below min wage, you will be replaced by someone who will not. I bartended in college at quite a few establishments in Texas, and this is VERY common. It is the rule rather than the exception.

 

[Lil devils x_v1legacy]

Wow, this topic has gone into a 9-page debate... Time to add my 2 cents!


If no-one has mentioned this already it needs to be mentioned and it bears repeating anyway.

TIPS literally translates into: To.Insure.Proper.Service


TIPS doesn't actually mean "reward great service", nor is it payment for the service.

It's regrettable that some cultures have got this simple concept wrapped round their collective necks but regardless of it's misinterpretations the fact remains that a tip should be the consumers' choice.

I don't believe anybody should tip if they are unsatisfied with the service, even if tipping is expected of them. Anywhere that adds the tip onto the bill is getting it wrong too, although you can normally take your complaints up with the manager to settle the bill if the service was not worthy of a tip.
All that said, if you don't tip, you will probably be receiving shitty service next time, but then you probably won't return to an establishment where you received poor service anyway. So in a way it balances out.

One reason why tipping culture seems to be unfair in general; Think of all the shit jobs out there that you don't tip for. Do you tip people that collect your rubbish/garbage? no. Why not? it's a shit job too - they're doing you a service, why not tip them? How about if every person that did you a service did a bad job because you didn't tip? How would you like it if say, your hairdresser starting doing a shit job because you hadn't payed 10% extra?

There are plenty of countries where tipping is virtually mandatory. Try not tipping a taxi driver in Egypt, I dare you. But the principle of the thing is totally stupid. If they need more money, they should simply charge more upfront instead of relying on performance-based generosity.

Finally some more cynical people might believe that tipping is just another way for people to show off to their fellow diners, either how rich they are or how generous or both. I for one would be interested to see how much some people tip when alone compared to when they are with people they are trying to impress.

And just for the record:

1; I've worked some shit jobs in my time that were never (as Mr Pink puts it) deemed "tip worthy" and I've always been jealous of those that do. I've worked tons of jobs including bar staff and in a kitchen - when i was working behind the bar, i got bought drinks. why does no-one ever buy the chef a fucking drink?!

2;I've talked to people that have their tips split - it's so fucked up - if someone has earned their tip by going above and beyond the call of duty then they should get to keep it instead of having to share their reward with someone that doesn't try at all.

3; There are jobs which are 100% tip based, and waiting tables is NOT one of them. There are people, for example, that give free walking tours around capitol cities. If they do a bad job or if everyone in their group is broke or stingy, they don't get paid at all. In this instance I can see why it would be incredibly rude not to tip if you were happy with the service. Waiting staff get wages, these are paid by the customers - it's not a huge leap to see that expecting customers to pay twice is wrong.

And one more thing; on the 1st or 2nd page of this thread, some absolute nob-jockey said to someone "your post count is low but i'll give you the benefit of the doubt" As if their opinion/contribution would be any less valid because of the number of fucking times they've fucking posted on one fucking forum. You Sir/Madam need to get your head out of your fucking ass.

I guess that was more like $5 than 2 cents. Well, $5.50 if you include the tip...

From bartending, and being a bar manager in college I can tell you it is definitely a BAD idea to allow staff to drink, rather there should be a strict policy of NO drinking on the job. Not even a little bit. You don't want it to become a habit.
1) drunk chef = really BAD idea. Hell they could burn the whole place down or start serving raw chicken.
2) I fired bartenders and servers for drinking on the job. Sorry no one drinking should be serving alcohol period.

The bartender is responsible for ensuring that customers are not over served, that drunks aren't driving, that the till is right at the end of the day, that the servers aren't skimming, that the bar costs remain low, that there are not any minors in their establishments. There is way too much responsibility for a bartender to be drinking, and there is no room for a buzzed bartender behind the bar. What happens when you have to call the police, fire or ambulance or have deal with an agitated customer and your buzzed? That is just a really bad idea to allow anyone to drink at work at all.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

It's kind of necessary in the US because waiters and waitresses can't make a livable wage without them, but I definitely prefer the way it is in countries like Japan, where tipping just isn't a 'thing'; people get paid decently, and they'll usually give you a weird look and refuse if you try to give them anything extra.