I feel sorry for American School Students

[PneumaticSuicide]

The reason why i bring this subject up is because i have recently been watching Jamie Oliver's food revolution. I was completely stunned by the reaction of the superintendent (i'm not really sure how important this position is) and how he is allowed to make a universal decision in regard to what children eat.

This just proves to me that the American education system fails at the most basic fundementals.

Please do NOT take this as an attack!!!

No, it's that American politicians fundamentally fail to support the education system. When you attack the education system itself, that includes the teachers who are in the trenches trying to do their very best with the rapidly-shrinking resources and pay provided to them.

And handling the food for America's schools? It's bloody goddamned hard. At or above half of the kids in most areas are on the "Free Lunch Program." And you don't want to tax the few that can afford it by pushing the cost onto them... which would actually put some of them under the qualifying line, and lead to an avalanche of "Free Lunch" kids. They keep lunch rooms at a bare-bones staff and keep their hours as tight as possible, so you're limited to things you can 1) cook quickly, 2) store almost indefinitely, 3) buy at bargin basement prices, 4) have the kids eat in less than 20 minutes.

Bear in mind that most of our school boards and superintendents don't have backgrounds as teachers. They're local business owners and politicians, who make decisions based solely on money (and pandering to those who elect/appoint them, who also share much of the ignorance about how education really works). So, when folks talk about "privatizing education," they're actually talking about giving those even more power to shit things up royally.

You Sir are the person i have been wanting to comment, you have basically covered what i wanted to know without asking. I REALLY do feel bad when basic education is hard to supply to a nations children. I thought we had it tough here at home but as you stated within your comments how difficult it is to deliver a basic education, well, its just mind blowing. I picked the US because it is/you are such a prominent influence in the world and in democracy yet education is treated by the government as... well... i don't know

 

[razer17]

I don't entirely get why that's a dick move? Surely it makes it harder to steal? maybe the qeues will be longer, but other than that I can't see why that would be such a bad thing. Maybe unnecessary.

It's annoying because parents can stop kids getting what they want. They can restrict them to main meals instead of a sandwich and a milkshake. It's seen as one step too far in the lower years.

Well in that case, it's not a dick move on the schools part. The parents get a say on what their kids eat, which is a good thing. Parents decide what you eat at home, too. Which I imagine is why it doesn't apply to 6th formers who are 16 and are technically adults.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

There are so many problems in our schools that aren't getting fixed, and they're all usually the result of too much politics. The lunches are just the tip of the iceberg. For example, now in Pennsylvania (where I live), school budgets are being cut, leading to awesome newer teachers being let go while old lazy ones stay. It frustrates me sometimes.

Alot of that has to do with the unions. Its a seniority thing. While it sounds good on paper, alot of times that is the unfortunate result of it. Most of the time, the employees with longer tenure, crappy or not, cannot be touched and the employees with the least amount of time will get canned.

Yeah, I understand that, but it's still unfortunate. My dad is an elementary school gym teacher, so I understand why unions are so important, too, but in cases like this they're doing more harm than good. Double edged sword, I suppose.

It would be so easy for my school board to ask the students who the best teachers are, and they'd realize all the ones they're letting go are the best ones who still have a passion for their jobs. I could also see lawsuits coming out of that, though, even if unions weren't involved, so I understand WHY they're doing it that way, but that just makes me realize how messed up the entire system is.

I agree with you completely. They are a double edged sword. They can protect you if you are unlucky enough to have a boss that is "out to get you", but they also protect the lazy employees. I fully believe there was a very good purpose for unions several generations ago, but I am starting to believe they are causing more harm than good these days. This is coming from someone that is IN a union, no less.

I started to look at them differently when they started sending me letters telling me who to vote for at the last two presidential elections. They tried to get me to vote for Kerry, and then Obama, and I ripped into one of our union leaders telling them that we were going to have a serious problem if they sent me one more piece of mail telling me who to vote for... thats my choice, and my business.

Yeah, they are definitely a double edged sword. Now, more than ever, we need the BEST teachers teaching our children, not necessarily the ones who have been there the longest. People like your dad hold one of the two most important jobs in our country, in my opinion. (That being teachers, and law enforcement... and neither get paid what they should)

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

I'm not familiar with the show. Could you describe the decision he made?
I feel sorry for us, too, actually. Just the other day, I was at my high school graduation, and they were giving out several $200 prizes for perfect attendance. It was unsettling to me that the administration was essentially paying kids to show up to school. It seems to enforce the wrong reasons to go to school. It just...bothered me. You know?

Be glad they are giving out anything at all. I despise how our school systems are devolving into a dens of mediocrity or worse. Most are going to a system where success and proper behavior isn't rewarded at all, where the good students are treated the same as bad students.
.

agreed, i remember how fucking pissed off i was my senior year, i was finishing up a huge project for a huge shed to be used at the school for years to come (nice piece of work, honestly), straight A student, athlete, yadda yadda yadda, anyways to the main point, We were running low on screws and a few other things and I knew my mom was off that day so I whipped out my phone (teacher said it was fine) and called my mom to pick it up real quick (we have a hardware store just down the road from the school) and in that process our ***** head principal comes flailing at me grabs my phone and takes me to her office to write me up for a detention all the while my teacher is explaining what the situation was and how he said it was okay that i did such, but she wouldn't have any of it, and while in the process of me getting wrote up for a detention on that, another kid walks in who has been absent/skipping the past 2 weeks (he was in one of my classes and he was a complete fucking pile who would randomly leave class) and all he got was a reminder to go to class and a pat on the back for coming to the office about it

oh and after all that my mom had to come up to the school to pick up my phone at the end of the day after my detention, i was so freaking pissed after that, I'm so glad I'm out of high school now

 

[PneumaticSuicide]

Haha, thanks for the sympathy. To be honest, I would have loved it about 3 years ago. The food I ate was pretty unhealthy, but hey. Got to eat something.

Most Americans know our school system blows. So nope, don't see this as an attack.

thanks for your straight to point comment

 

[rutger5000]

Actually I don't think I would mind American education. All Americans I know have a working knowledge of a large numbers of fields. True their knowledge in the field they claim to specialise in is often somewhat wattered down because of this. But that is easily undone, by some studying.
on the downside. If I received American education, I would have to break every rule of the school. Seriously your rules are ridiculous

 

[TheGuiggleMonster]

The reason why i bring this subject up is because i have recently been watching Jamie Oliver's food revolution. I was completely stunned by the reaction of the superintendent (i'm not really sure how important this position is) and how he is allowed to make a universal decision in regard to what children eat.

This just proves to me that the American education system fails at the most basic fundementals.

Please do NOT take this as an attack!!!

I agree, but I would say that every education system is flawed on a fundamental level. I have yet to see a system that works well, and I've looked. The system needs to change drastically, but I don't really know how to change it.

I hear the Finnish education system is pretty good.

 

[Dastardly]

You Sir are the person i have been wanting to comment, you have basically covered what i wanted to know without asking. I REALLY do feel bad when basic education is hard to supply to a nations children. I thought we had it tough here at home but as you stated within your comments how difficult it is to deliver a basic education, well, its just mind blowing. I picked the US because it is/you are such a prominent influence in the world and in democracy yet education is treated by the government as... well... i don't know

As a business. It's treated like a business, ruled by numbers and bottom lines... that don't reflect any data relating to how children learn and what they need.

I'm not big on socialism, or anything like that. But if there is one thing on this planet that I feel absolutely must be socialized, it's education. Not even medicine. Education first. History is fraught with instances of the rich using the ignorance of the poor to control them, wielding the "achievement gap" as a weapon of subjugation.

Allowing education to be privatized and treated like a business will only serve to do exactly that--the rich will get the "good schools," while the poor (and the middle class who can't get over-the-hump) will be left with the "bargain bin."

 

[PneumaticSuicide]

The reason why i bring this subject up is because i have recently been watching Jamie Oliver's food revolution. I was completely stunned by the reaction of the superintendent (i'm not really sure how important this position is) and how he is allowed to make a universal decision in regard to what children eat.

This just proves to me that the American education system fails at the most basic fundementals.

Please do NOT take this as an attack!!!

agreed, finished my freshmen year today, the US policies on education are absolutely terrible. Its sad that in the past 100 years we have invented airplanes, TV, the internet, and Iphones yet were still using the same means of teaching a kid math.

\


You're absolutely correct!!!11 We have moved so far forward yet we leave alot to the wayside.

 

[WanderingFool]

There are more serious problems with the AMerican school system than fucking lunches. More intelectual persuits like advance mathematics and physics are being dropped at myt old highschool so they can save money to spend on the useless ass football team.

I can say, without doubt, that all the currant problems with the education system is tied into money, and the root of this problem is No Child Left Behind. Usless fucking program... I need to stop talking about this, or im going to start raging soon...

 

[SoopaSte123]

snip

I agree with you completely. They are a double edged sword. They can protect you if you are unlucky enough to have a boss that is "out to get you", but they also protect the lazy employees. I fully believe there was a very good purpose for unions several generations ago, but I am starting to believe they are causing more harm than good these days. This is coming from someone that is IN a union, no less.

I started to look at them differently when they started sending me letters telling me who to vote for at the last two presidential elections. They tried to get me to vote for Kerry, and then Obama, and I ripped into one of our union leaders telling them that we were going to have a serious problem if they sent me one more piece of mail telling me who to vote for... thats my choice, and my business.

Yeah, they are definitely a double edged sword. Now, more than ever, we need the BEST teachers teaching our children, not necessarily the ones who have been there the longest. People like your dad hold one of the two most important jobs in our country, in my opinion. (That being teachers, and law enforcement... and neither get paid what they should)

You sir, make more sense than a man who robs a parking meter. (I'm not sure that joke works as well without spoken word...)

Neither are paid what they deserve, nor are they treated with the respect they deserve. With low wages, we are discouraging the best and brightest from going into those positions which only comes back to bite us in the ass. I don't understand how raising future generations is not of the highest priority to us.

I don't know what the best course of action would be, at this point, though. I know without the union, my dad and the rest of his fellow employees would have been screwed out of their retirement by the school board. Unions still have a purpose, so you can't completely do away with them, but at the same time, I don't think older union members would like big changes in policy if it could potentially hurt them. It's just a shame all around.

(Also, regardless of political views, a group you're a part of telling you who to vote for is despicable. I hate it when churches do it, and I hate that the unions are doing it.)

 

[Sonic Doctor]

Snip

agreed, i remember how fucking pissed off i was my senior year, i was finishing up a huge project for a huge shed to be used at the school for years to come (nice piece of work, honestly), straight A student, athlete, yadda yadda yadda, anyways to the main point, We were running low on screws and a few other things and I knew my mom was off that day so I whipped out my phone (teacher said it was fine) and called my mom to pick it up real quick (we have a hardware store just down the road from the school) and in that process our ***** head principal comes flailing at me grabs my phone and takes me to her office to write me up for a detention all the while my teacher is explaining what the situation was and how he said it was okay that i did such, but she wouldn't have any of it, and while in the process of me getting wrote up for a detention on that, another kid walks in who has been absent/skipping the past 2 weeks (he was in one of my classes and he was a complete fucking pile who would randomly leave class) and all he got was a reminder to go to class and a pat on the back for coming to the office about it

oh and after all that my mom had to come up to the school to pick up my phone at the end of the day after my detention, i was so freaking pissed after that, I'm so glad I'm out of high school now

Nothing exactly like that happened at my high school, but there was one time when an upstanding student was being harassed by one of the reject failures. Reject ended up punching the good student in the gut for no real reason, and when the good student recovered and saw that the reject was going to punch him in the face, he deflected it. The reject got hit in the face by his own arm and got a bloody nose. There were a bunch of student witnesses and a teacher(that was too far off to get there in time to stop it), and the vice principal that was actually walking with that teacher. The teacher and the students stood up for the good student, because they new that he was just defending himself.

The messed up part came when the vice principal only gave the reject two days of detention and gave the good student a week suspension.

I have no idea what was going through that vice principals mind that the defender should get a worse punishment.

 

[TheGuiggleMonster]

I agree, I have seen that program and I was a bit shocked to see what it's like in the US. Healthy eating is important. I have always brought my own food to school, although nowadays that we have better food in schools I still don't eat it because I don't like queueing for food that isn't as nice as what I can bring in myself.

 

[PneumaticSuicide]

You Sir are the person i have been wanting to comment, you have basically covered what i wanted to know without asking. I REALLY do feel bad when basic education is hard to supply to a nations children. I thought we had it tough here at home but as you stated within your comments how difficult it is to deliver a basic education, well, its just mind blowing. I picked the US because it is/you are such a prominent influence in the world and in democracy yet education is treated by the government as... well... i don't know

As a business. It's treated like a business, ruled by numbers and bottom lines... that don't reflect any data relating to how children learn and what they need.

I'm not big on socialism, or anything like that. But if there is one thing on this planet that I feel absolutely must be socialized, it's education. Not even medicine. Education first. History is fraught with instances of the rich using the ignorance of the poor to control them, wielding the "achievement gap" as a weapon of subjugation.

Allowing education to be privatized and treated like a business will only serve to do exactly that--the rich will get the "good schools," while the poor (and the middle class who can't get over-the-hump) will be left with the "bargain bin."

BINGO!!! This is the major issue that concerns all schools around the world and i'm not the biggest fan of socialism myself, however due to previous social conventions set in place prior to my arrival on this rock (albeit my arrival was via lightning in an alley next to a homeless guy) this is how civilized life has been set. As you pointed out education MUST come first, history repeats itself far too much and we must teach the next gen how properly sustain themselves and others via what they eat, how they communicate and most importantly not to judge by social status but by what each single person can contribute.

The sooner the business facade is dropped the quicker and more efficiently we can move forward

 

[PneumaticSuicide]

i agree that america needs to work out some problems (which is easier for me since i'm 'foreign') and although the health of america is important, i don't think food is the top priortiy, there are bigger concerns (like glenn beck)

hahahaha glenn beck, i forgot bout him. he is more dangerous to humans than the T virus

 

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Snip

agreed, i remember how fucking pissed off i was my senior year, i was finishing up a huge project for a huge shed to be used at the school for years to come (nice piece of work, honestly), straight A student, athlete, yadda yadda yadda, anyways to the main point, We were running low on screws and a few other things and I knew my mom was off that day so I whipped out my phone (teacher said it was fine) and called my mom to pick it up real quick (we have a hardware store just down the road from the school) and in that process our ***** head principal comes flailing at me grabs my phone and takes me to her office to write me up for a detention all the while my teacher is explaining what the situation was and how he said it was okay that i did such, but she wouldn't have any of it, and while in the process of me getting wrote up for a detention on that, another kid walks in who has been absent/skipping the past 2 weeks (he was in one of my classes and he was a complete fucking pile who would randomly leave class) and all he got was a reminder to go to class and a pat on the back for coming to the office about it

oh and after all that my mom had to come up to the school to pick up my phone at the end of the day after my detention, i was so freaking pissed after that, I'm so glad I'm out of high school now

Nothing exactly like that happened at my high school, but there was one time when an upstanding student was being harassed by one of the reject failures. Reject ended up punching the good student in the gut for no real reason, and when the good student recovered and saw that the reject was going to punch him in the face, he deflected it. The reject got hit in the face by his own arm and got a bloody nose. There were a bunch of student witnesses and a teacher(that was too far off to get there in time to stop it), and the vice principal that was actually walking with that teacher. The teacher and the students stood up for the good student, because they new that he was just defending himself.

The messed up part came when the vice principal only gave the reject two days of detention and gave the good student a week suspension.

I have no idea what was going through that vice principals mind that the defender should get a worse punishment.

can highly believe that, i do not understand how the person who is defending themselves always get the same or a worse punishment, wtf are you supposed to do, take the beating of your life in front of everyone? with the logic of the schools there is no way to get out of that situation without having something bad bite you in the ass.

 

[CleverCover]

Our system needs a complete re-do.

It's why a lot of people I know are sending their kids to private schools now. Nobody feels the public system does what it's supposed to...and that's the ones who feel they can afford it.

It's not just the food...although that might be a reason why my mother had us make all our lunches instead of buying school lunch...

 

[riverand]

Thank you for starting this discussion. It is one close to my heart on so many levels - as a teacher, as a food blogger and as a US and global citizen.

Our schools are sick. They have been for a long time. Our nation's students do not score in any competitive range in any subject matter when compared to the global community, but when surveyed about confidence - US students lead the pack. Now WHY IS THAT? Better question HOW is that?

If you ask almost any student in America about the state of our education system, they will often say that they agree it is not the best, so what the heck do they have to be so confident about?? I don't mean to be a Debbi-downer here (I am born and raised USA, myself), but where do we get off THINKING we still have what it takes to be the leaders of the free world?

I am not saying it is a lost cause. I am just saying that we can't all keep saying that the system is sick, but somehow all of its parts come out immune!

I don't have a solution, but I think about this A LOT as it is my passion, my calling, my love. I think the first step is to recognize our own accountability in this problem as students, teachers, tax-payers and citizens.

~The food issue is a HUGE one - a hungry, malnourished mind is useless - the right types of food can make all the difference in the world.

~Then teacher education needs an overhaul, and some places are embracing this.

~Colleges need to be institutions of continued learning, not businesses treating their students like paying customers.

~RESPECT must be earned back by schools, teachers and administrators. Citizens need to realize we are on the same side: fighting for the future of our kids and our country.

~Education/acquisition of knowledge, or a skill must be valued more than money (this will only happen when people believe again in our American school system.)

...Oh boy, there is so much more, but it's Friday, this is The escapist forums, not my soapbox and, while on this medical leave of mine, I've run out of steam!

Sorry for the extra long post/preach, but there are some topics I just can't click away from

 

[Voxgizer]

"No child left behind" roughly translates to "Everyone is 'special' and 'smart.'" No, they're fucking not.

Our educational system is a fucked up mess. The only time anyone does anything right is if a teacher actually puts it more effort than they're paid for to make it more interesting for the kids and not dumbing it down.

Teachers don't get paid enough to put up with the shit they deal with from the snot nosed little shit bags either.

Cutting funding for schools...let's see...let's take away the money that's SUPPOSED to be there to EDUCATE our FUTURE. Yea, brilliant fucking idea. Let the new generation suffer in stupidity.

I'm finding it harder and harder to say I'm proud of my country.

 

[EternalFacepalm]

Food is the least of the problems in the education system; however, as far as I'm concerned, no one's been able to make a system that actually works. I'm not all that happy with my education either.