I have a hard on for Okami

[Drathnoxis]

I played it for the first time a couple months ago and thought it was fantastic!

I don't think it's the best Zelda game though. Despite the common comparison I don't think it really feels much like a Zelda game at all. The dungeons aren't nearly as puzzly, the experience system, the combat system give it a very different feel to Zelda. I think there are far more differences than similarities actually. Also Majora's Mask was better anyway.

It's a great game, but I have a harder time getting into it now because I have a lower tolerance for textboxes, and unlike Zelda Okami doesn't exactly know how to keep those brief. The game also kind of wears out its welcome after the big capital chapter, where it moves away completely from all the characters we've come to love and the main plot about Orochi.

This is true, the city was definitely the best part of the game.

Okami is indeed a very long game, it's practically two regular game length worth of content.

My only complaint (okay two, the voice get annoying after 40 hours) is that its just too easy, especially the combat. I never really felt like I had to figure out a puzzle/fight/boss, it was just hot knife trough butter the entire time.

I think I only died once, during the final optional demon gate trial cave. Oh and then there was Blockhead Grande! Thank goodness for digital cameras.

It's not better than Zelda.

Most things are better than Zelda.

BLASPHEMY!

I have had a hard on for okami for so many years, ever since 2005 basically.

To avoid long term injury seek immediate medical help for an erection lasting more than 4 years. Stop play Okami and call your doctor right away if you experience a sudden decrease in vision or hearing.

 

[Yoshi178]

I won't deny that. I just vehemently disagree with the OP that it's arguably the best Zelda or even close to it.

In which case would you mind telling us exactly what the best Zelda is, in your opinion?

I was just going to ask the same thing. I doubt Okami would have been nearly as good without previous Zeldas to influence it, but any other 3D Zelda I can think of was shorter and just had less going for it overall. You might even argue that it lacks that "classic" feel most Zeldas have, but comparing the adventures you go through in each game, I'm going to say Okami did it better each time.

Disagree. I don't think Okami is as good as any of the first four 3D Zeldas, including the disappointing Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, which are still pretty good compared to most other games. I never played Skyward Sword or Breath of the Wild and have no strong feelings for the 2D games. I only got as far as one maiden in A Link to the Past before I got confusing by the direction. The only 2D one I came close to beating was Minish Cap. I screwed up my save file in the second to last dungeon. Okami's gameplay isn't that special and the game loses what steam it has towards the end. I think I gave up on my second playthrough in the snow area near the end, because I got bored.

The way you wrote all that sounds almost like you didn't like any Zeldas, and you still thought Okami was worse. I had to read it a few times to see you were praising the 3D Zeldas by saying you didn't care for the 2D games.

For me, of the 4 3D Zeldas, OOT is probably the best due to being the pioneer of the genre while still being really good for the standard the rest of the series set. TP perfected OOT, but it loses points for just coping itself. MM and WW are great in their own rights, but MM isn't really a Zelda game (It's Groundhogs Day: The Game), and WW was great, but ultimately forgettable, because I have to force myself to remember it when I'm thinking about Zelda games. Going beyond those first 4, SS was an absolute garbage heap, and BOTW is barely "Zelda" but really good too.

Okami is a better wolf game than TP, and TP was a perfected OOT and everything else is just shades of gray in comparison to OOT. Ergo, Okami is the best Zelda game.

I like 2D Zelda. But not as much as 3D Zelda. Majora's Mask is my favorite, slightly beating out Ocarina. The games became too sanitized after that. They'll never make games as charming yet dark as those first two again. Trying to hard to be kid-friendly now.

Wrong. Majora's Mask and OoT suck.

Wind Waker is clearly the best Zelda.

They'll never make games as charming yet dark as those first two again. Trying to hard to be kid-friendly now.

Even more wrong. Wind waker is way darker than OOT and Majora's Mask

 

[Yoshi178]

I won't deny that. I just vehemently disagree with the OP that it's arguably the best Zelda or even close to it.

In which case would you mind telling us exactly what the best Zelda is, in your opinion?

I was just going to ask the same thing. I doubt Okami would have been nearly as good without previous Zeldas to influence it, but any other 3D Zelda I can think of was shorter and just had less going for it overall. You might even argue that it lacks that "classic" feel most Zeldas have, but comparing the adventures you go through in each game, I'm going to say Okami did it better each time.

Disagree. I don't think Okami is as good as any of the first four 3D Zeldas, including the disappointing Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, which are still pretty good compared to most other games. I never played Skyward Sword or Breath of the Wild and have no strong feelings for the 2D games. I only got as far as one maiden in A Link to the Past before I got confusing by the direction. The only 2D one I came close to beating was Minish Cap. I screwed up my save file in the second to last dungeon. Okami's gameplay isn't that special and the game loses what steam it has towards the end. I think I gave up on my second playthrough in the snow area near the end, because I got bored.

The way you wrote all that sounds almost like you didn't like any Zeldas, and you still thought Okami was worse. I had to read it a few times to see you were praising the 3D Zeldas by saying you didn't care for the 2D games.

For me, of the 4 3D Zeldas, OOT is probably the best due to being the pioneer of the genre while still being really good for the standard the rest of the series set. TP perfected OOT, but it loses points for just coping itself. MM and WW are great in their own rights, but MM isn't really a Zelda game (It's Groundhogs Day: The Game), and WW was great, but ultimately forgettable, because I have to force myself to remember it when I'm thinking about Zelda games. Going beyond those first 4, SS was an absolute garbage heap, and BOTW is barely "Zelda" but really good too.

Okami is a better wolf game than TP, and TP was a perfected OOT and everything else is just shades of gray in comparison to OOT. Ergo, Okami is the best Zelda game.

I like 2D Zelda. But not as much as 3D Zelda. Majora's Mask is my favorite, slightly beating out Ocarina. The games became too sanitized after that. They'll never make games as charming yet dark as those first two again. Trying to hard to be kid-friendly now.

Wrong. Majora's Mask and OoT suck.

Wind Waker is clearly the best Zelda.

Wind Waker is good, but overrated.

"It was a good game until the Master Sword was fully restored. After that, the lengthy sailing and wind manipulation as well as the clumsy naval combat grew tedious with the gathering of the Triforce shards. Everybody always criticizes that part, but it wouldn't have been so bad if the game had competent naval combat and allowed you to conduct the wind without going into the pause screen, assigning the baton, exiting, selecting the baton, playing the melody, watching the character repeat the melody, choosing the direction of the wind (assuming you haven't already forgotten where you wanted to go) and waiting for a cutscene. There were many moments in which I sailed with barely any wind or rowed the boat because I didn't want to repeat that slow process. Removing the sail to attempt to aim the cannon as everybody shot at you and you kept flying out of the boat was annoying. The game has easy puzzles and easier combat. Link's sword has a lot of reach, so the combat demands little precision. The enemies hardly do any damage. Collecting heart pieces on the side is completely pointless (and tedious, since you usually find sea charts instead of hearts, leading to more monotonous sailing). The throwback to the Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time endings with Ganon's Castle (with the same music) was disappointing, too."

They'll never make games as charming yet dark as those first two again. Trying to hard to be kid-friendly now.

Even more wrong. Wind waker is way darker than OOT and Majora's Mask

That's it? Nintendo will never do something like dead Hyrule Castle Town or the Shadow Temple or the crazed wind mill guy with the eerie music and past or people facing death again. None of the dungeons after N64 had the atmosphere of the Forest Temple. It probably helped that the graphics were so simplistic back then. Made it less scary for kids, I suppose.

Link stabbing his antagonist straight through his skull to make sure the job is done properly is way darker than spoopy zombi town and eerie music.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

The only Zelda game I ever finished was Minish Cap, so I suppose by default that has to be my favorite. I also liked Majora's Mask (Ocarina doesn't hold up nearly as well), Twilight Princess (8.8, I don't care) and the Oracle pair (some actually pretty interesting overworld and dungeon design in those two.)

 

[Hawki]

9: Link?s Awakening
8: Phantom Hourglass
7: A Link to the Past
6: The Minish Cap
5: A Link Between Worlds
4: Majora?s Mask
3: Ocarina of Time
2: Twilight Princess
1: The Wind Waker

That's a listing of all the LoZ I've played by rank. And anyone who disagrees is objectively wrong.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

9: Link?s Awakening
8: Phantom Hourglass
7: A Link to the Past
6: The Minish Cap
5: A Link Between Worlds
4: Majora's Mask
3: Ocarina of Time
2: Twilight Princess
1: The Wind Waker

That's a listing of all the LoZ I've played by rank. And anyone who disagrees is objectively wrong.

I've never played Wind Waker. I have a Wii U, so I could play the HD version, but other games just keep coming up.

 

[Yoshi178]

I won't deny that. I just vehemently disagree with the OP that it's arguably the best Zelda or even close to it.

In which case would you mind telling us exactly what the best Zelda is, in your opinion?

I was just going to ask the same thing. I doubt Okami would have been nearly as good without previous Zeldas to influence it, but any other 3D Zelda I can think of was shorter and just had less going for it overall. You might even argue that it lacks that "classic" feel most Zeldas have, but comparing the adventures you go through in each game, I'm going to say Okami did it better each time.

Disagree. I don't think Okami is as good as any of the first four 3D Zeldas, including the disappointing Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, which are still pretty good compared to most other games. I never played Skyward Sword or Breath of the Wild and have no strong feelings for the 2D games. I only got as far as one maiden in A Link to the Past before I got confusing by the direction. The only 2D one I came close to beating was Minish Cap. I screwed up my save file in the second to last dungeon. Okami's gameplay isn't that special and the game loses what steam it has towards the end. I think I gave up on my second playthrough in the snow area near the end, because I got bored.

The way you wrote all that sounds almost like you didn't like any Zeldas, and you still thought Okami was worse. I had to read it a few times to see you were praising the 3D Zeldas by saying you didn't care for the 2D games.

For me, of the 4 3D Zeldas, OOT is probably the best due to being the pioneer of the genre while still being really good for the standard the rest of the series set. TP perfected OOT, but it loses points for just coping itself. MM and WW are great in their own rights, but MM isn't really a Zelda game (It's Groundhogs Day: The Game), and WW was great, but ultimately forgettable, because I have to force myself to remember it when I'm thinking about Zelda games. Going beyond those first 4, SS was an absolute garbage heap, and BOTW is barely "Zelda" but really good too.

Okami is a better wolf game than TP, and TP was a perfected OOT and everything else is just shades of gray in comparison to OOT. Ergo, Okami is the best Zelda game.

I like 2D Zelda. But not as much as 3D Zelda. Majora's Mask is my favorite, slightly beating out Ocarina. The games became too sanitized after that. They'll never make games as charming yet dark as those first two again. Trying to hard to be kid-friendly now.

Wrong. Majora's Mask and OoT suck.

Wind Waker is clearly the best Zelda.

Wind Waker is good, but overrated.

"It was a good game until the Master Sword was fully restored. After that, the lengthy sailing and wind manipulation as well as the clumsy naval combat grew tedious with the gathering of the Triforce shards. Everybody always criticizes that part, but it wouldn't have been so bad if the game had competent naval combat and allowed you to conduct the wind without going into the pause screen, assigning the baton, exiting, selecting the baton, playing the melody, watching the character repeat the melody, choosing the direction of the wind (assuming you haven't already forgotten where you wanted to go) and waiting for a cutscene. There were many moments in which I sailed with barely any wind or rowed the boat because I didn't want to repeat that slow process. Removing the sail to attempt to aim the cannon as everybody shot at you and you kept flying out of the boat was annoying. The game has easy puzzles and easier combat. Link's sword has a lot of reach, so the combat demands little precision. The enemies hardly do any damage. Collecting heart pieces on the side is completely pointless (and tedious, since you usually find sea charts instead of hearts, leading to more monotonous sailing). The throwback to the Link to the Past and Ocarina of Time endings with Ganon's Castle (with the same music) was disappointing, too."

They'll never make games as charming yet dark as those first two again. Trying to hard to be kid-friendly now.

Even more wrong. Wind waker is way darker than OOT and Majora's Mask

That's it? Nintendo will never do something like dead Hyrule Castle Town or the Shadow Temple or the crazed wind mill guy with the eerie music and past or people facing death again. None of the dungeons after N64 had the atmosphere of the Forest Temple. It probably helped that the graphics were so simplistic back then. Made it less scary for kids, I suppose.

Link stabbing his antagonist straight through his skull to make sure the job is done properly is way darker than spoopy zombi town and eerie music.

A few seconds of footage darker/eerier than Ocarina and MM... Yeah, sure.

a quality few seconds though.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

A few seconds of footage darker/eerier than Ocarina and MM... Yeah, sure.

I can't speak for much of Ocarina, but Majora's Mask is dark in its underlying philosophy.
"You can help these people, but as soon as you go back, they'll go back to being sad, and there's nothing you can do."
"Every time you go back in time, you've left the world to die, because you couldn't save it."
"This person can't be helped. The only way you can 'heal' them is to offer them a peaceful death."

Yeah, as dark as protagonist murder is, when the entire world is built around darkness, that's another matter.

 

[Catfood220]

Wind Waker is clearly the best Zelda.

No. Not even close to the best Zelda. I want to go on the record that I was never one of these people who hated the game because of the graphics, I thought it looked really good. I wouldn't even say that I hated it. It just wasn't very good.

Ok, reasons why. Lets start with the first one, the game was padded as hell. And we all know the reason for that, 2 dungeons were removed from the game because Nintendo rushed it out. This means that there was a huge amount of world and not a great deal to do in it. Seriously, I must have uncovered every square of that map and most of the time, there would be just one island with some grass and nothing else. Every now and then you get lucky and there would be a pirate outpost for you to fight. But other than that, islands with grass. And lets not get into the whole getting the Triforce maps, having Tingle decrypt the maps for money and then finding the Triforce pieces. So much grind.

And that wouldn't of been so bad if the sailing had been fun. It wasn't. I have a friend who would set the boat sailing in a direction and switch to the TV and watch that for 10 minutes or so and then switch back to the game. There was only one town in the whole game, which was tiny and I think the auction house was the only thing of much interest and when you have bought all the good stuff there, that stopped being interesting.

There is the whole thing about Princess Zelda and the fact that she starts the game as a tough as nails pirate and the moment she is revealed to be Zelda is promptly kidnapped. And then there is the final fight with Gannon where the game decides that firing the light arrows is too big a task for you and takes them off of you. No game, its not too big a task, I've done it in other, better, Zelda titles and handled it fine thanks. Mind you, that wasn't as insulting as Twilight Princess's distract Gannon with fishing rod for a few free hits, rinse and repeat until dead thing.

This is just off the top of my head, I only beat it once and every other time I lot complete interest after a few hours, unlike other Zelda titles. So there are probably things I've missed out.

I like how a discussion about Okami has turned into a discussion about the best Zelda.

 

[Signa]

I really liked Wind Waker. But it?s also the last Zelda I?ve played. Therefore I?d have to personally rank it as the best 3D Zelda, behind A Link to the Past. Nothing from the classic era will top that one imho. Super Metroid May come close, but not close enough.

 

[Signa]

I really liked Wind Waker. But it?s also the last Zelda I?ve played. Therefore I?d have to personally rank it as the best 3D Zelda, behind A Link to the Past. Nothing from the classic era will top that one imho. Super Metroid May come close, but not close enough.

Have you played Environmental Station Alpha on Steam? If you loved Super Metroid as much as I have, you'll probably find it to be worthy of your time. Graphics are bare-bone basic, but the gameplay is incredible.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

I like how a discussion about Okami has turned into a discussion about the best Zelda.

You can create a thread, but where it goes is out of your hands.

 

[Signa]

I really liked Wind Waker. But it?s also the last Zelda I?ve played. Therefore I?d have to personally rank it as the best 3D Zelda, behind A Link to the Past. Nothing from the classic era will top that one imho. Super Metroid May come close, but not close enough.

Have you played Environmental Station Alpha on Steam? If you loved Super Metroid as much as I have, you'll probably find it to be worthy of your time. Graphics are bare-bone basic, but the gameplay is incredible.

Thanks for the rec. I?m waiting for the last parts of my new build to show up, but hopefully will have everything by tomorrow. The wait is getting excruciating. I?d play on my old pc but I think the mortherboard or PS is finally shot. Going to salvage my old GPU for now though. Maybe there will be good deals for the holidays on those. Leaning AMD for that since I?ve used them the last nearly ten years without issue but we?ll see.

 

[Maximum Bert]

Love Okami have finished it 3 times over the years which is a lot for a single game for me as I usually dont bother to replay games of that length again due to there always being new games out.

There was just not much I did not like about it from the art style to the way you used powers to the dungeon designs and the overworld to the way it infused itself with Japanese mythology it was and is just a beautiful game I just enjoyed going forward wondering what new stuff was around the corner.

I have just been replaying the PS2 original but it seems its coming out on PS4 now for cheap so I may pick that version up just incase my PS2 packs in.

Still looks great on PS2 though the art style used means it doesnt really show its age beyond being a bit low rez. It really did give me Zelda vibes when playing but for me it did Zelda a lot better than Zelda did which is about as high praise as I can give it.

 

[Drathnoxis]

I like how a discussion about Okami has turned into a discussion about the best Zelda.

You can create a thread, but where it goes is out of your hands.

Well OP was the first one to get Zelda involved. It's his own fault, really.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

The fans want the same formula and tone over and over. This is why we can't have nice things.

I actually liked Adventure of Link, a lot. It's interesting to note as one of the first action-RPGs, if nothing else. The design of the temples and the overworld can be a little annoying at times, and some of the enemies are a real pain to fight like the guys who throw unblockable projectiles, but overall it's a neat game.

And despite it coming out before there was a set 'formula', people now call it an aberration...

 

[Signa]

I like how a discussion about Okami has turned into a discussion about the best Zelda.

You can create a thread, but where it goes is out of your hands.

Well OP was the first one to get Zelda involved. It's his own fault, really.

Well, I'm not the ones that started shitting on both IPs, or pretending to have played the Steam version long enough to hate it before it's even released.

 

[Signa]

A few seconds of footage darker/eerier than Ocarina and MM... Yeah, sure.

I can't speak for much of Ocarina, but Majora's Mask is dark in its underlying philosophy.
"You can help these people, but as soon as you go back, they'll go back to being sad, and there's nothing you can do."
"Every time you go back in time, you've left the world to die, because you couldn't save it."
"This person can't be helped. The only way you can 'heal' them is to offer them a peaceful death."

Yeah, as dark as protagonist murder is, when the entire world is built around darkness, that's another matter.

Totally. Sad people like the OP call it not a Zelda game, but "Groundhog Day: The Game." The fans want the same formula and tone over and over. This is why we can't have nice things.

Hey! I didn't say MM was a bad game, just that it didn't follow the formula, so it doesn't get a spot in the Greater Than / Less Than comparison I have to make with at least 5 completely different games.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

Hey! I didn't say MM was a bad game, just that it didn't follow the formula, so it doesn't get a spot in the Greater Than / Less Than comparison I have to make with at least 5 completely different games.

Even if a game doesn't follow a series formula, it can still be considered for that series' best or worst. Just because Super Mario 3D Land has straight-line courses in 3D doesn't mean it can't be compared to either the original or 64.

 

[Signa]

A few seconds of footage darker/eerier than Ocarina and MM... Yeah, sure.

I can't speak for much of Ocarina, but Majora's Mask is dark in its underlying philosophy.
"You can help these people, but as soon as you go back, they'll go back to being sad, and there's nothing you can do."
"Every time you go back in time, you've left the world to die, because you couldn't save it."
"This person can't be helped. The only way you can 'heal' them is to offer them a peaceful death."

Yeah, as dark as protagonist murder is, when the entire world is built around darkness, that's another matter.

Totally. Sad people like the OP call it not a Zelda game, but "Groundhog Day: The Game." The fans want the same formula and tone over and over. This is why we can't have nice things.

Hey! I didn't say MM was a bad game, just that it didn't follow the formula, so it doesn't get a spot in the Greater Than / Less Than comparison I have to make with at least 5 completely different games.

How is that a valid point? If something is different but better... it's better! Why do you think so many people are unhappy now with The Force Awakens? It's too derivative and safe. Change is good. Still, it is VERY MUCH a Zelda game. It's more of a Zelda game than Okami, so I don't know what you're babbling about, calling Okami the best Zelda while saying Majora's Mask isn't really a Zelda game. Your logic, no sense.

When you aren't following the formula, then it gets compared to games within its own series. MM may be the best Link protagonist game (Not sure if I agree because having only 4 dungeons is bullshit. MAJOR point loss right there), but because it falls outside of the formula, it's not a "Zelda" game. Would be it better to you if I came up with another term for the formula? We have "Metroidvania" for a similar type of game.