I have a hard on for Okami

[NerfedFalcon]

When you aren't following the formula, then it gets compared to games within its own series. MM may be the best Link protagonist game (Not sure if I agree because having only 4 dungeons is bullshit. MAJOR point loss right there), but because it falls outside of the formula, it's not a "Zelda" game. Would be it better to you if I came up with another term for the formula? We have "Metroidvania" for a similar type of game.

Emphasis mine. Contradiction, yours.

Pick one. Is Majora's Mask a Zelda game or not?

 

[RaikuFA]

Well this thread escalated quickly. The pretentiousness meter is going through the roof.

 

[maninahat]

I tried it once.

It was terrible.

The intro was 23 motherfucking minutes of unskippable cutscene during which it repeated the same damn story twice for no apparent reason and sat me through an eternity of sloooooowly scrolling unskippable text accompanied by jibberish dialogue.

Got through all that to be greeted with the kind of nothing-special gameplay I would expect from a random $15 game on Steam.

Uninstalled it in disgust.

Understandable response. I veered between being delighted by the painterly style and inking mechanics, and utterly disgusted by the permanent training wheels and cacophonous jabbering that never lets up.

 

[Zhukov]

[snip]

Well, aren't you special.

Special enough to construct a coherent point instead of spouting empty snark apparently.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

[snip]

Well, aren't you special.

Special enough to construct a coherent point instead of spouting empty snark apparently.

Alright then. Coherent, non-snarky version: I think you're exaggerating a little when you say 'disgust'.

 

[Raggedstar]

*rushes into Okami thread* Aw yeee, best Zel-..oh...ohhhh...we have a Zelda debate happening. I'll step away from that side of the thread.

...

It may be long-winded (with unskippable cutscenes in the original). It may chug on a PS2. It may have terrible pacing at times (particularly at the start). It may hand-hold you too much. However, for all it's many faults, it's my favourite game. I dunno how to describe it well, but I just think it has a lot of love put into it, and the game oozes so much charm and heart. Okami was one of the first games I bought when I got back into gaming about 10 years ago, and it hit me hard, so I guess that's why it means so much to me and why I can't say something simple like "Ya, it's pretty and stuff and you can poop on demons".

Also, with the game being ported to PC, it allows me to force this game onto my friend just in time for Christmas :3 (pending it has a decent port job with workable mouse/keyboard controls)

 

[Signa]

When you aren't following the formula, then it gets compared to games within its own series. MM may be the best Link protagonist game (Not sure if I agree because having only 4 dungeons is bullshit. MAJOR point loss right there), but because it falls outside of the formula, it's not a "Zelda" game. Would be it better to you if I came up with another term for the formula? We have "Metroidvania" for a similar type of game.

Emphasis mine. Contradiction, yours.

Pick one. Is Majora's Mask a Zelda game or not?

Bolded the part that was the main point of the post. I'm referring to Zelda both as a series and a genre. Okami is the best Zelda genre. Majora's Mask is (arguably) the best Zelda series.

 

[Zhukov]

Alright then. Coherent, non-snarky version: I think you're exaggerating a little when you say 'disgust'.

Nope.

I am in the habit of choosing my words rather carefully.

After sitting through 23 minutes of unskippable cutscene that told the same story twice and equally unskippable text that scrolled at a snail's pace I think disgust, "a feeling of revulsion or strong disapproval", perfectly described my state of mind as I hit the uninstall button.

 

[Silvanus]

After sitting through 23 minutes of unskippable cutscene that told the same story twice and equally unskippable text that scrolled at a snail's pace I think disgust, "a feeling of revulsion or strong disapproval", perfectly described my state of mind as I hit the uninstall button.

Amazing. You must be gut-wrenchingly horrified if somebody fails to thank you for holding a door, or utterly mortified if someone moves the remote control.

Not sure if I could operate with such extreme emotional response to mild inconvenience.

I'm referring to Zelda both as a series and a genre.

Well don't, because it's factually incorrect. Zelda is not a genre.

Okami is the best Zelda genre. Majora's Mask is (arguably) the best Zelda series

This doesn't make sense, quite literally. A single game cannot be a series by definition.

 

[Zhukov]

After sitting through 23 minutes of unskippable cutscene that told the same story twice and equally unskippable text that scrolled at a snail's pace I think disgust, "a feeling of revulsion or strong disapproval", perfectly described my state of mind as I hit the uninstall button.

Amazing. You must be gut-wrenchingly horrified if somebody fails to thank you for holding a door, or utterly mortified if someone moves the remote control.

Not sure if I could operate with such extreme emotional response to mild inconvenience.

Nah.

I don't particularly expect to be thanked for holding doors open and I've never owned a remote control.

Also, I personally wouldn't consider "revulsion or strong disapproval" to be on par with "gut-wrenching horror" or "utter mortification". Your mileage may vary I suppose.

 

[Silvanus]

.
Also, I personally wouldn't consider "revulsion or strong disapproval" to be on par with "gut-wrenching horror" or "utter mortification". Your mileage may vary I suppose.

Lots of mileage varying going on around here.

 

[Signa]

A few seconds of footage darker/eerier than Ocarina and MM... Yeah, sure.

I can't speak for much of Ocarina, but Majora's Mask is dark in its underlying philosophy.
"You can help these people, but as soon as you go back, they'll go back to being sad, and there's nothing you can do."
"Every time you go back in time, you've left the world to die, because you couldn't save it."
"This person can't be helped. The only way you can 'heal' them is to offer them a peaceful death."

Yeah, as dark as protagonist murder is, when the entire world is built around darkness, that's another matter.

Totally. Sad people like the OP call it not a Zelda game, but "Groundhog Day: The Game." The fans want the same formula and tone over and over. This is why we can't have nice things.

Hey! I didn't say MM was a bad game, just that it didn't follow the formula, so it doesn't get a spot in the Greater Than / Less Than comparison I have to make with at least 5 completely different games.

How is that a valid point? If something is different but better... it's better! Why do you think so many people are unhappy now with The Force Awakens? It's too derivative and safe. Change is good. Still, it is VERY MUCH a Zelda game. It's more of a Zelda game than Okami, so I don't know what you're babbling about, calling Okami the best Zelda while saying Majora's Mask isn't really a Zelda game. Your logic, no sense.

When you aren't following the formula, then it gets compared to games within its own series. MM may be the best Link protagonist game (Not sure if I agree because having only 4 dungeons is bullshit. MAJOR point loss right there), but because it falls outside of the formula, it's not a "Zelda" game. Would be it better to you if I came up with another term for the formula? We have "Metroidvania" for a similar type of game.

You're still not making any sense. I don't even understand that first sentence. It's more of a Zelda game than Okami. It has all the things required of a Zelda game. It also has better side quests than any Zelda game.

I'm referring to Zelda both as a series and a genre. Okami is the best Zelda genre. Majora's Mask is (arguably) the best Zelda series. I can not make this any simpler for you. If you disagree, fine, but don't blame me for not explaining my position. I didn't reference Metroidvania for no reason.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

I'm referring to Zelda both as a series and a genre. Okami is the best Zelda genre. Majora's Mask is (arguably) the best Zelda series. I can not make this any simpler for you. If you disagree, fine, but don't blame me for not explaining my position. I didn't reference Metroidvania for no reason.

Then just call it a freakin' Metroidvania (which Zelda still isn't really, BTW) and leave it at that. If you're going to use a term that's accepted as a genre, then don't stuff in your own terminology on top of it, or else people will just get confused. Case in point.

 

[SweetShark]

I will laught my ash off if Capcom decide to have the last half of the game as DLC.
I am saying because if you tuink about it it make sense.

 

[NerfedFalcon]

I will laugh my ass off if Capcom decide to have the last half of the game as DLC.
I am saying because if you think about it it make sense.

...I'm thinking about it, and I don't see it at all. Just because one company did that doesn't mean another automatically has to.

 

[Signa]

I'm referring to Zelda both as a series and a genre. Okami is the best Zelda genre. Majora's Mask is (arguably) the best Zelda series. I can not make this any simpler for you. If you disagree, fine, but don't blame me for not explaining my position. I didn't reference Metroidvania for no reason.

Then just call it a freakin' Metroidvania (which Zelda still isn't really, BTW)

So call it something it widely isn't accepted as, and then face the wrath of everyone saying that Zelda isn't metriodvania. Great logic.

I'm not the only one that thinks Zelda is a classifiable genre at this point. Here's a few steam discussions where people allude to the same point I was making. Once again, you're welcome to disagree with everything I've said, but acting like I'm wrong on some fundamental level is false.

http://steamcommunity.com/app/587620/discussions/0/1488866180597976372/
"It's the best Zelda never made."

http://steamcommunity.com/app/587620/discussions/0/1488861734097897994/
"I would say that I like several Zelda games a bit better than even Okami. But I would say that Okami is still one of my favorite games of all time. And I like it better than even many Zelda games"

"BOW isn't a real Zelda game and suffers from the same problems of many open world sydnrome games"

http://steamcommunity.com/app/587620/discussions/0/2425614361138493754/
"is a The Legend Of Zelda adventure style with the gimmick of having a divine brush that will manifest the god-like powers amaterasu have"

 

[RaikuFA]

.
Also, I personally wouldn't consider "revulsion or strong disapproval" to be on par with "gut-wrenching horror" or "utter mortification". Your mileage may vary I suppose.

Lots of mileage varying going on around here.

You know that's his thing, right? Going to topics of games people like and saying they're shit.

 

[juanstrong]

Wind Waker is clearly the best Zelda.

No. Not even close to the best Zelda. I want to go on the record that I was never one of these people who hated the game because of the graphics, I thought it looked really good. I wouldn't even say that I hated it. It just wasn't very good.

Ok, reasons why. Lets start with the first one, the game was padded as hell. And we all know the reason for that, 2 dungeons were removed from the game because Nintendo rushed it out. This means that there was a huge amount of world and not a great deal to do in it. Seriously, I must have uncovered every square of that map and most of the time, there would be just one island with some grass and nothing else. Every now and then you get lucky and there would be a pirate outpost for you to fight. But other than that, islands with grass. And lets not get into the whole getting the Triforce maps, having Tingle decrypt the maps for money and then finding the Triforce pieces. So much grind.

And that wouldn't of been so bad if the sailing had been fun. It wasn't. I have a friend who would set the boat sailing in a direction and switch to the TV and watch that for 10 minutes or so and then switch back to the game. There was only one town in the whole game, which was tiny and I think the auction house was the only thing of much interest and when you have bought all the good stuff there, that stopped being interesting.

There is the whole thing about Princess Zelda and the fact that she starts the game as a tough as nails pirate and the moment she is revealed to be Zelda is promptly kidnapped. And then there is the final fight with Gannon where the game decides that firing the light arrows is too big a task for you and takes them off of you. No game, its not too big a task, I've done it in other, better, Zelda titles and handled it fine thanks. Mind you, that wasn't as insulting as Twilight Princess's distract Gannon with fishing rod for a few free hits, rinse and repeat until dead thing.

This is just off the top of my head, I only beat it once and every other time I lot complete interest after a few hours, unlike other Zelda titles. So there are probably things I've missed out.

I like how a discussion about Okami has turned into a discussion about the best Zelda.

Not even close? I disagree. I felt Wind Waker had a great story, memorable characters, a good soundtrack, and very well designed dungeons. The only time I felt it was "padded as hell" was during the triforce quest.

Wind Waker has its flaws (Triforce quest, too much sailing), but even ones that I love have them. And I still consider WW to be the best Zelda.