I left my girlfriend so I would never have to play another JRPG...

Unmitigated Hatred

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Jan 7, 2010
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Just kidding. I left my girlfriend because of her infidelity and drug habit. I had to say that to get your attention because people these days think picking on JRPG's is trendy and passe. I think that's fucking stupid. Just because a genre is legitimately broken doesn't mean you have to label me a trendster and piss all over me whenever I open my mouth. The problem is that JRPG's DO have serious issues with the the way they are written, designed, and presented, and if they fix those issues I'll stop my bitching, walk down to BestBuy and slap down 60 bucks for the next good JRPG that comes out. It's not the usual things that people typically rag on, like the ambiguously gendered characters. In fact, I'm a semi-professional drag queen in my off time who owns more than one several hundred dollar corset, so the fact that these games repulsed me in SPITE of the prospect of fabulous gender bending is especially heinous.

Now to say I don't like ANY JRPGs ever would be silly and close minded, after all I'm not close minded, just elitist with an Art Degree and while that does make my opinion more valid than yours. those are two very separate things. I love Final Fantasy VII as much as the next guy, and if you think that Grandia was a bad game you should have all your fingers cut of and your mouth sewn together so that the world no longer has to be exposed to your idiotic "opinions." That being said, those games were made in the 90's, and the fact that its been over a decade since I played a JRPG that filled me that unmistakable sense of childlike glee and wonderment that FFVII and Grandia did, means that something is very very wrong.

Problem One: The RPG is a woefully outdated system of storytelling.

You heard me. On a fundamental level the RPG is a broken system for conveying an adventure to its users. Now understand that I'm not just saying this. I have an Art Degree, passed down to me by the Odin, wisest of the Aesir, who sasw fit to bequeath me with it only on council of the wisest muses of the land. That means I know a thing or two about how stories work, or in the case of RPGs, how they don't work. Understand that the RPG is a concept older than most of the people screaming at me or calling me worse than Hitler. As an art form, RPG's date back to the 70's, a dark and horrible time when people thought that bell bottoms and aluminum tanks were a good idea, and we didn;t have advance 3D graphics to convewy to sweaty and unlovable nerds exactly what the fuck was happening to their beloved made up characters. Now we have bump mapping and phong shading, as well as full 3d movement and physics to give us an idea of what was going on and let us respond freely and without constriction to it, but back in Olde Tymes we had to compensate for a lack of gproceeduarl generated visuals with our imagination and (more importantly) with elaborate math statistics and dice rolls to simulate the idea of a persistant and reactively functioning universe. Things like hit points, status effects, turn based combat and (most importantly) boring and elaborate charts were ideas implemented to compensate for things like being unable to visually acknowledge your attack, simulating injury, translating spoken words into performed actions, and a lack of boring and nonsensical shit too look at respectively. When computers came into the fore, the RPG migrated there so that basement dwelling losers could keep on fighting dragons, but without having to deal with other basement dwelling fucktards who might judge them for wanting to pretend to be a female narwhal or whatever. All these complex things migrated with them, because graphics were not yet advance enough to realistically simulate a believable world that changes and reacts to you.

American RPGs were smart enough to ditch most of that boring stuff. or at least make it handled entirely behind the scenes once graphics and gameplay advanced to a point where they were no longer overtly necessary. Dues Ex and Mass Effect are fantastic games, because they keep thre feeling of exploration and wonderment that RPG's have become famous for, but without all the boring story cliches and oppressive stat keeping to keep me from just tearing ass around a unique and interesting universe. JRPG's conversely, hit a high point in the 90's, and decided to keep to that success by NEVER EVER LEAVING THAT ERA.. Simply put, American RPG's fixzed what was broken with RPG's and kept what worked.

Protip for movies, games, whatever. If you're audience is every sitting they're asking "WHY?" as a normal, frequent occurrence in game, something is badly wrong. Why am I taking turns trading blows that do damage in arbitrary numbers. Why am I randomly encountering enemies? What the fuck are these monsters and where did they come from? Why are these assholes from this area so much stronger than these assholes in this area? These are all frequent questions I ask myself whenever I play a JRPG. Whenever I play a JRPG, the combat always feels arbitrary and forced. I feel like I'm being forced to contend with a conflict system that hasn't matured in decades, and I get pissed off.

A good game should envelop you in its universe and its characters. When I'm having to look over an immense spreadsheat of statistics, and spend fifteen minutes min maxing my characters item load out, I get pissed off and bored. This stuff all added character and depth back when everything I did was laid out on graph paper and decided by a dice. It is totally out of place in a piece of media that is supposed to immerse you.

Dated gameplay of course is forgivable. There are still old games I play that, despite their rigidity and age, have stood the test of time well. Outmoded gameplay doesn't necessitate a bad game, which brings me to my next problem with JRPGs.

Problem Two: The plots are flat, and formulaic, the characters are generic and unlovable, the story progresses like your morbidly obese mother without her Power Chair.

Imma go ahead and go on record here saying that Final Fantasy VII had the greatest opening to any RPG ever, and if you disagree with me you should give up civilization and flee into wilderness like the idiotic savage you are, living off of squirrels and the occasional camper because obviously you are unprepared for artistic complexities of Modern Civilization and you should be kept away from art at all costs so as not to pollute it with your literal nega-taste. Final Fantasy VII is bar none the best example of how to pull off a story in a JRPG. I have an Art Degree. I know this.

Everything about it, from the fade in to Cloud and companies assault of the power reactor and beyond is sleek, simple, powerful, and effective. It immediately answers your innate questions as players (Where are we? When are we? What kind of world is this? What is this aesthetic?), as well as raising new ones (Who is this Flower Girl? Why is she important enough to be the first person we see? What role will she play later? Why are these people beating up these guards, what are their objectives?) The game makes sure so that at any given point, there is tension raised and a question asked by the players. From then on in the game moves pretty quickly, but doesn't fail to set up later elements of the story as it goes along. Thus by the time game answers all those questions (albeit in a clever, piecemeal fashion), you are hooked, invested, and willing to go anywhere. That one pivotal moment where all those questions about Aeris are answered, and we find out what she is and what her heritage is, she is immediatly kidnapped. Not only does that raise new questions and new tensions, but its genius pacing. We've gone through all this work to discover the secret of this one sweet, endearing character, and now she's been snatched from us. Fuck, when Shinra captured Aeris, I was immediatly prepared to kill every single mother fucker that looked it me crossways in my path to get her back. People always talk about how Aeris' death is one of the most powerful moments in video gaming. But it wouldn't be had it not been for the games masterful story work and pacing. Had Aeris just been a character who happened to be stab by some fuckwit with a sword, but we would have yawned. But no, go back and play that game. Almost every single moment in that story up until her death is quietly building up and preparing for it, even though you never see that, and that's just genius.

Too bad most JRPG's are literally the exact and total opposite of this. They treat story as an excuse to further their bullshit spectacle. See, Japanese RPGs seem to draw on the artistic heritage of Kabuki. This is a fucking problem. Kabuki, like Opera, is entertaining not because of story and character, but because of performance and spectacle. That works fine for an Opera or a concert, but is skull fuckingly boring for an interactive medium. I'm not entirely sure this is true, but it is literally the only explanation I can have to this absolutely fucking bizzare trend I've noticed in Japanese video games; namely this weird tendency in JRPGs to just assume that the audience cares. Like, every time I play a JRPG I get a bunch of boring, generic "people" that the game just goes "See! You care about them!" No. No I fucking don't. I am going to be sitting with these motherfuckers for every single minute of the next twenty hours. That's plenty of time for character development. MAKE me like them. You have a full DAY of my time to create a functioning story, invest some thought and effort. It's not hard. But no. Most JRPGs just toss me in front of a bunch of fucking unbearable human beings and go "okay here's a quest you should complete it I guess." That's goddamn unacceptable.

Case in point: a couple years ago, before I had my Art Degree which allows me to say this with every degree of rightness, my friend bought a copy of Chrono Cross, came home to my dorm, held the thing up and said "Check it out guys, I got Chrono Cross!" Everyone ooed and aah'd. I've heard the fanboys wank and wax over Chrono Cross so I figured "what the shit, I'll give it a try." Wow, what a stupid fucking decision. I guess for that one brief moment I forgot that fanboys are tastless fuckheads with a total black hole of reason or artistic appreciation who finD one good thing, latch onto it, and scream like harpies anytime anyone tries to inject actual criticism into whatever nerd treasure they hold dearest.

Chrono Cross bored the shit out of me. I didn't get past the first hour of gameplay because I had no idea what the fuck was happening and didn't care. Okay yeah sure, maybe it's a fucking classic. I didn't realize playing a "classic" was supposed to be like rubbing your face up against a belt sander until the pain no longer matters. I turned the game on, was plunged into a fucking flashback scenario with some random fighting. Forty minutes later I was in some fucking past or alternate timeline or whatever with no idea what the fuck had just happened. Then I was asked to go find something outside of whatever idyllic little beach town I was in. No explaination. Just railroaded into doing this thing. I then walked through the wilderness for another thirty fucking minutes before I turned off the console. What the fuck. Do JRPG fans have a torrid love affair with abject boredom? I know I'm going to get screamed at by all the 300lbs weeabo anime nerds for being a Euro-centric philistine or whatever, but if there was quality storytelling or gameplay in there, I sure as hell didn't fucking find it after a full hour of gameplay. And as someone with an Art Degree, I can say to you that if you failed to interest me at all within the first hour of game play, you have produced objectivley bad art. This has been the experience I have had with every single JRPG I have played since then. The only JRPG That has come out within the last ten years that I was even remotely excited for was Eternal Sonata. Guess what, that game fucked up too in spite of everything it had going for it. JRPG writers by and large don't know how to tell a good story or make endearing characters. And their designers don't know how not to make combat that doesn't make me want to scream in agony.

Problem Three: It's exploration, not exposition you assholes.

Morrowind was one of my favorite games ever and I have no idea what the fucking plot was. Seriously. I did not give literally a single fuck about what as going on. I was more than happy to explore the lush and detailed surroundings I had been dumped in and make my fortune tomb raiding and completing side quests. A good RPG makes you feel like the world is your oyster. Part of the immersion you get with an RPG comes from that feeling of freedom and adventure that comes with the ability to tear ass around a brand new universe going "ooh whats that? And whats that?" JRPGs hold your hand like a recalcitrant child with ADD whose parents are too tired and weary from being bad care takers to indulge your wish to turn everything into an adventure. Every time I play a JRPG I feel trapped and yanked along by the games clunky and awful narration. I have no sense of freedom and whatever sense of "adventure" I posses is being shoved down my throat like new medication.

Problem Four: Japanese game philosophy is clunky and ancient but refuses to advance.

Wow? The Japanese refusing to change or advance? What a shock. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edo_period]But no really, JRPGs these days bank all of their chips on art direction and "cinematic action", just like they did when they were all drawn by hand. This is something that was fine fifteen years ago but now it's just horseshit. When you're not fighting a nonsensical battle or trying to figure out what a certain characters fucking gender is, everything is just long, unwatchable, poorly directed cutscenes. The 90's were awesome because CGI was difficult and expensive, so they filled that time instead with CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT. Ever noticed how in American games there are almost never cutscenes, or if their are like in Halo, they're short and serve a simple purpose? That's because overt narrative takes us out of the gameplay experience and ruins our immersion. We figured out in 1999 with Half-Life that a good narrative is never broken and that cutscenes actually detract from an experience. Japanese games in the 90's had an edge because they had a better emphasis on story than their Western counterparts. But we've had it figured out for 11 years how to run an interesting and immersive narrative in a video games. Japanese games still have that ancient delineation between combat, plot, and cutscene. Japanese games switch gears with the same noise that my car makes when it's fucking dying because someone stuck a screaming cat in the timing belt. The game holds my hand and tells me "Okay you're going to learn about the characters now. Okay here's some dialogue now. Alright here's a cutscene now." One of the most important parts of getting my Art Degree, apart from learning to skin a Cow, was learning that feeling like we're being narrated too and reminded that something isn't actually happening strips a story of all its magic. That's what shitty cutscenes do. They remind us of the barrier between us and this story. So I guess too bad that 50% of most JRPGs are a system for taking all of the good out of a story. Wow. No wonder they suck.

When I watched the opening to Final Fantasy XII, I spent my entire time asking myself what the fuck happened on two different levels. Firstly, how the fuck did the artistic man-gods who made FFVII turn into these assholes, and secondly, what the fuck was going on? Why were people riding giant chickens and waiving swords, when they also had fucking space ships with laser guns? Why the FUCK do we care about these characters? It felt like they were doing this all because they could, not because it was interesting or serving a purpose. And it's been like this since after Final Fantasy X. It's like Japan pretends they live in some alternate bizarro-land where they're not beholden to forward thinking or decent art. They can just sit there doing everything like they fucking did in the 90's. If you think I sound like an asshole, take a step back for a moment and remember that I have an Art Degree. You know how the Pope never makes a mistake? It's like that except I don't have to wear a bullshit hat and I can fuck bitches.

In conclusion, I would say that JRPGs are only for people who love pain but that's not even true. My roommate likes it when her boyfriend beats her to within an inch of her life with a ratan cane and clamps her nipples with clothes pins for hours on end, and she told me she finds JRPGs too tediously boring, so the only real target audience for JRPGs I can think of is negated right there. I guess if I had to sum all this up it would go like this:

tl;dr JRPGs are objectively bad art for the reasons I described and your reasons for liking them are utterly beyond me and my Art Degree. They are an idiotic, poorly made genre and if they ever have their problems addressed I will play them again.

Thanx
 
May 28, 2009
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The only JRPGs I have ever liked are Earthbound and Mother 3, for obvious reasons. They count right?

By the way, love the way you put "Art Degree" in capital letters. I completely trust and feel everything is validated by your opinion now. Art: serious business.
 

Z of the Na'vi

Born with one kidney.
Apr 27, 2009
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Woah dude, quite a wall of text you have there.

Well, to give my opinion on JRGs, I find them just as much fun as any Western RPG...
 

Vladamir69

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Dec 18, 2008
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too....many....words....i will have to print this out and read it through the day ill reply in a week or so
 

linwolf

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Jan 9, 2010
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There are bad JRPG and good JRPG, just as there are good and bad WRPG
People have different taste in games, that all there are to this.
 

LeonLethality

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Mar 10, 2009
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Why is it people always compare JRPGs to WRPGs? they are two different genres despite their names. You praise FF7 even though it is one of the games that contributed to the downfall of JRPGs it got rid of well rounded likable characters and good story (see FF6) for a darker kind of story with flat characters.

WRPGs may be about exploration and choices but JRPGs are about story telling and gameplay (remember they are two different genres) you say you love FF7 but it has pretty low exploration even for a JRPG.

Also what would your art degree have to do with any of this?

I feel like I have been trolled...
 

Wolvaroo

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Jan 1, 2008
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I glossed it over and more or less concur. But any game with any attributes can be made good so I wouldn't say JRPGs as a whole are all terrible and always will be. They just don't generaly appeal to me these days. But back in my NES/SNES days they were "The Shit". Some are just unforgetable for me. Final Fantasty Tactics and Legend of Mana are both in my top5 games evar category, but both arn't "jrpgs" so much as they are RPGs from Japan...
 

BlumiereBleck

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LeonLethality said:
.

WRPGs may be about exploration and choices but JRPGs are about story telling and gameplay (remember they are two different genres) you say you love FF7 but it has pretty low exploration even for a JRPG.
yeah western arrrr pee gees will always have better exploration metheds
 

Unmitigated Hatred

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Jan 7, 2010
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LeonLethality said:
Why is it people always compare JRPGs to WRPGs? they are two different genres despite their names. You praise FF7 even though it is one of the games that contributed to the downfall of JRPGs it got rid of well rounded likable characters and good story (see FF6) for a darker kind of story with flat characters.

WRPGs may be about exploration and choices but JRPGs are about story telling and gameplay (remember they are two different genres) you say you love FF7 but it has pretty low exploration even for a JRPG.



Also what would your art degree have to do with any of this?

I feel like I have been trolled...
What the hell are you talking about? How did FFVII get rid of well rounded and likable characters?
 

GamingAwesome1

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May 22, 2009
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I skim read most of this, so please forgive me if I cock something up.

I more or less agree with you, JRPG'S have more or less failed to move with the times and as such are slowly becoming more and more hated. I once was able to claim that I liked JRPG'S....not so much now.

Also, holy shit this guy writes alot, atleast it's well thought out and provokes actual discussion as opposed to pointless trolling!
 

Peanut Butter

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May 19, 2009
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Stop waving an art degree around...it doesnt justify you're argument. You should be commenting on paintings rather than story telling, leave that to the English Literature or Creative Writing Degree holders.

I personally dont like JRPG's but i don't flaunt my education to back up my opinion because it is exactly that: an opinion.
 

Axolotl

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Unmitigated Hatred said:
Problem One: The RPG is a woefully outdated system of storytelling.
I HOPE YOU DIE IN A PIT MADE OF FIRE AND PAIN.

Not really, I actually agree with many of your other points (which is a first in a JRPG hate thread). However you don't really back up this assertion, you mention a bit about PnP and early stuff but don't say why the RPG is outdated. I want to see you back this up with some logic, I mean I'm sure you have logic to back it up but I'd really like to know what it is.
Personally the main JRPGs I play are Disgaea which I play for the combat which is second to none.
 

David Bray

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I really don't like any JRPG's. The party mechanic is never done very well, there's the horrible HUD which looks like an arcade, predictable characters, and a strange feeling that i should be raping the female (and sometimes male) characters in the back of my head.

Still, some LOOK good.
 

Pyode

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Unmitigated Hatred said:
JRPGs are objectively bad art
There is no such thing "objectively bad art." Art is by definition subjective.

I really never understood why people make threads like this. Trying to empirically prove that a game or a genre is bad. It's completely pointless because when it comes to the quality of art, there is no right or wrong. It's all opinion.


I also enjoy how, throughout you're entire article, you talk about how bad JRPG's are, and yet you only use two examples of bad JRPG's. One of which you admit to only playing one hour of.