I Like Final Fantasy VIII ask me questions.

[RJ 17]

Well the ending is actually the time loop breaking, the ultimecia-Edea part is just making sure there wasn't a paradox.

How is the time-loop broken when it restarts at the end, thus preventing the paradox? As I said: Edea originally became the sorceress because a dying sorceress from the future granted her the sorceress powers. That dying sorceress was Ultimecia, after getting defeated by the party. So she executes her failsafe: travel back in time and grant her powers to Edea, thus closing the time loop and ensuring that the events of FF8 will continue to repeat.

The only way the time loop is broken is if Ultimecia isn't allowed to go back and grant her power to Edea.

Ultimecia still dies, so the events of FF8 still happen and the main cast survives.

Ultimecia dies...by going back in time and granting her powers to Edea. Time has been reversed, the events of the entire game were undone and everything starts over. I'll say the obvious again: the only way to prevent a time-loop is to prevent Ultimecia from going back in time to give her powers to Edea.

 

[Roboshi]

Ultimecia dies...by going back in time and granting her powers to Edea. Time has been reversed, the events of the entire game were undone and everything starts over. I'll say the obvious again: the only way to prevent a time-loop is to prevent Ultimecia from going back in time to give her powers to Edea.

it's a closed loop paradox, Edea always got her powers from Ultimecia, this means ultimecia always died and the main cast always survived. The time loop had an "out"

 

[RJ 17]

Ultimecia dies...by going back in time and granting her powers to Edea. Time has been reversed, the events of the entire game were undone and everything starts over. I'll say the obvious again: the only way to prevent a time-loop is to prevent Ultimecia from going back in time to give her powers to Edea.

it's a closed loop paradox, Edea always got her powers from Ultimecia, this means ultimecia always died and the main cast always survived. The time loop had an "out"

No, it's a closed loop because it's inescapable. Indeed, Ultimecia always dies, but in her death she resets the events to restart from the beginning.

So for the third time: the only way for there to be an "out" for the time loop is to prevent Ultimecia from travelling back in time to give Edea the sorceress power in the first place. This does not happen, and as such the loop plays on for eternity. Ultimecia may not have won, but she effectively ends the world by ensuring that it can never progress beyond her death.

Lets break down the timeline, shall we?
One day Matron meets a Sorceress from the future that grants her the Sorceress powers, thus turning her into Edea. Flash forward and the kids that Matron was watching over are all now a bunch of angsty twits who go on their heroic quest. This quest ends with the resurrection of Ultimecia who then activates her time compression. The angsty twits defeat her, thus ending the time compression with a almost-dead Ultimecia ending up in front of a young Matron who she grants the Sorceress powers to, thus turning her into Edea. Rinse and repeat for all eternity.

Going back in time was Ultimecia's ace in the hole, a way to ensure she could one day get resurrected and have another go at things. So, either her fate can be changed and at some point she'll actually win out, or her fate cannot be changed and she's eternally doomed to failure. "Best case scenario" for breaking the loop is Ultimecia eventually wins out. Otherwise she successfully locks the world in a never-ending time loop, because the heroes certainly can't stop her from going back in time without causing a universe-shattering paradox.

Either way: the events of the game are utterly pointless.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

I have a good question that'll test your knowledge actually. What's the easiest way to get overpowered as early as possible?

Simples... As soon as you get to leave Balamb Garden (when on the mission to get Ifrit) go to the beach to the South. There you find some enemies that are essentially floating fish. Draw Water from them over and over until you have 100 per character. Then as soon as you can junction water to each characters STR. Ta-da... Overpowered for the rest of Disc 1 at least!

 

[Tilly]

I have a good question that'll test your knowledge actually. What's the easiest way to get overpowered as early as possible?

Simples... As soon as you get to leave Balamb Garden (when on the mission to get Ifrit) go to the beach to the South. There you find some enemies that are essentially floating fish. Draw Water from them over and over until you have 100 per character. Then as soon as you can junction water to each characters STR. Ta-da... Overpowered for the rest of Disc 1 at least!

Yep, that's definitely the earliest method. Although you missed my second post where I mentioned Curaga. Those are significantly better than Water! And can be done as soon as you finish the Dollet mission.

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

I have a good question that'll test your knowledge actually. What's the easiest way to get overpowered as early as possible?

Simples... As soon as you get to leave Balamb Garden (when on the mission to get Ifrit) go to the beach to the South. There you find some enemies that are essentially floating fish. Draw Water from them over and over until you have 100 per character. Then as soon as you can junction water to each characters STR. Ta-da... Overpowered for the rest of Disc 1 at least!

Yep, that's definitely the earliest method. Although you missed my second post where I mentioned Curaga. Those are significantly better than Water! And can be done as soon as you finish the Dollet mission.

Ooh! I did miss that! Just looked it up on the junction tables... holy hell that is mega-powerful! Especially for that point in the game! AND you don't need to use them at that point as cure is more than enough!

I guess at that point you stick Water on Luck or Vit then for a handy boost!

 

[Tilly]

Ooh! I did miss that! Just looked it up on the junction tables... holy hell that is mega-powerful! Especially for that point in the game! AND you don't need to use them at that point as cure is more than enough!

I think Demi actually works out better for Str/Attack though. Which you can get by drawing from Diablo quite soon after.

 

[RelexCryo]

Indeed with the recent darling of the FF series getting a remake the PSone era of FF has been under the internet eye much more closely than normal (and, lets be honest, it was under a microscope already).

FF7 is obviously one of the most popular games of all time and enough to give erections to JRPG fans everywhere when it gets remake and a damn fine game it is too.

FF9 is arguabley the best in the entire series depending on who you talk to, the swansong of the traditional style that made JRPGs popular in the West.

Which leaves 8, possibly one of the most polarising in the entire series. With entire internet content producers building careers on hating this entry in the series.

And yet, I really enjoy this one, I do see there are flaws, but I also see the qualities that endue to this day. But as this is a forum I thought I'd open this up to everyone, so ask away.

Do you feel the fact that many of Rinoa/Squall's romance events happened at times where Rinoa could be optionally left out of the team and she wouldn't show up to make them happen anyways, meaning that many of the plot-centric romance events between Squall and Rinoa are never seen, was a serious flaw in the game since it meant a lot of players never saw the romance events of those characters?

Also, do you think the lack of diversity in playable characters is a big issue, since FF7, the game that came previously, actually had more diversity in that respect?

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Ooh! I did miss that! Just looked it up on the junction tables... holy hell that is mega-powerful! Especially for that point in the game! AND you don't need to use them at that point as cure is more than enough!

I think Demi actually works out better for Str/Attack though. Which you can get by drawing from Diablo quite soon after.

Hmmm... I have noticed that there are multiple tables for junctions, and actually most say that Water and Curaga give the same boost! :/

Demi is more though. I do remember Demi being pretty dangerous to get soon after leaving balamb though... :/

 

[Tilly]

Hmmm... I have noticed that there are multiple tables for junctions, and actually most say that Water and Curaga give the same boost! :/

Demi is more though. I do remember Demi being pretty dangerous to get soon after leaving balamb though... :/

Well it depends on the stat doesn't it. Curaga does a lot more HP than Water. Demi does less for HP than Curaga but more for Strength

 

[RikuoAmero]

Ultimecia dies...by going back in time and granting her powers to Edea. Time has been reversed, the events of the entire game were undone and everything starts over. I'll say the obvious again: the only way to prevent a time-loop is to prevent Ultimecia from going back in time to give her powers to Edea.

it's a closed loop paradox, Edea always got her powers from Ultimecia, this means ultimecia always died and the main cast always survived. The time loop had an "out"

No, it's a closed loop because it's inescapable. Indeed, Ultimecia always dies, but in her death she resets the events to restart from the beginning.

So for the third time: the only way for there to be an "out" for the time loop is to prevent Ultimecia from travelling back in time to give Edea the sorceress power in the first place. This does not happen, and as such the loop plays on for eternity. Ultimecia may not have won, but she effectively ends the world by ensuring that it can never progress beyond her death.

Lets break down the timeline, shall we?
One day Matron meets a Sorceress from the future that grants her the Sorceress powers, thus turning her into Edea. Flash forward and the kids that Matron was watching over are all now a bunch of angsty twits who go on their heroic quest. This quest ends with the resurrection of Ultimecia who then activates her time compression. The angsty twits defeat her, thus ending the time compression with a almost-dead Ultimecia ending up in front of a young Matron who she grants the Sorceress powers to, thus turning her into Edea. Rinse and repeat for all eternity.

Going back in time was Ultimecia's ace in the hole, a way to ensure she could one day get resurrected and have another go at things. So, either her fate can be changed and at some point she'll actually win out, or her fate cannot be changed and she's eternally doomed to failure. "Best case scenario" for breaking the loop is Ultimecia eventually wins out. Otherwise she successfully locks the world in a never-ending time loop, because the heroes certainly can't stop her from going back in time without causing a universe-shattering paradox.

Either way: the events of the game are utterly pointless.

Very nicely put. I would argue that Ultimecia technically "wins" in both scenarios. Her goal was to be the only creature in existence and it can certainly be argued that stopping the flow of time from progressing beyond her (thus making her the most important creature in existence) would meet that goal.

 

[Roboshi]

Do you feel the fact that many of Rinoa/Squall's romance events happened at times where Rinoa could be optionally left out of the team and she wouldn't show up to make them happen anyways, meaning that many of the plot-centric romance events between Squall and Rinoa are never seen, was a serious flaw in the game since it meant a lot of players never saw the romance events of those characters?

Also, do you think the lack of diversity in playable characters is a big issue, since FF7, the game that came previously, actually had more diversity in that respect?

Actually most of the times Squall and rinoa had their moments she was locked into the party, the biggest being squall rescuing her in balamb gardens huge battle, where she was not one of the ones you could put into the various teams and therefore was going to be in that event where she got thrown off the side of the garden.

As for diversity, it was mostly diverse in terms of the character traits rather than physical differences, the story called for them to all be young adults as it was about young love and the trials of discovering your place in the world.

 

[Roboshi]

Very nicely put. I would argue that Ultimecia technically "wins" in both scenarios. Her goal was to be the only creature in existence and it can certainly be argued that stopping the flow of time from progressing beyond her (thus making her the most important creature in existence) would meet that goal.

Well that all depends on the nature of time compression as a form of time travel, Ultimecia is clearly unable to effect rinoa after the events of the game and while she will be born as the sorceress of the future she will fight the SeeDs of that time and have the original Squall travel to kill here at that point in time.

The FF8 world will have a dark future but it will also be one in which the sorcerress will always die and pass on her abilites to eda in the past. (possibly even losing the sorcerress ability for good in the post ultimecia timeline.

Ultimecia's powers of time travelling control has it's limits and much like other Scifi time travel stories the future and the present appear to be happening simultaniously (opossibly as an effect of time compession to come) as such once ultimecia dies, and the cast returns to their time, only an ultimecia that does not die in the future would be able to do anything in the present anymore.

Ultimecia's death only allows the events of FF8 not dooms it to an eternal loop.

 

[RJ 17]

Ultimecia's death only allows the events of FF8 not dooms it to an eternal loop.

Disregarding the fact that everything above this line is pulled just completely out of nowhere, with this line right here you describe FF8 as being an endless loop.

The game ends with Ultimecia's death, this sets up the events of FF8...which leads to Ultimecia's death, which sets up the events of FF8...which leads to Ultimecia's death, which sets up the events of FF8...

See where I'm going with this?

Time Compression is described as being exactly what it sounds like: all time being compressed to a single point, so that all time is occurring simultaneously. When Ultimecia is killed and the compression ends, the world must revert to some point from which to continue onward as normal. This point that the world reverts to after the end of time compression is the point where Ultimecia grants her powers to Edea. Ultimecia isn't traveling through time so much as the entire world has been reset to that point in time, such is the power of a sorceress capable of engulfing the entire world into time compression in the first place.

Face it my friend, your favorite FF has an absolutely pointless story.

Or just continue enjoying your denial, I believe I've proven myself in plenty of ways by now so I'll leave you alone about it.

 

[Silvanus]

Very nicely put. I would argue that Ultimecia technically "wins" in both scenarios. Her goal was to be the only creature in existence and it can certainly be argued that stopping the flow of time from progressing beyond her (thus making her the most important creature in existence) would meet that goal.

Wait, that's not really indicated. We see the SeeDs celebrating post-Ultimecia's defeat in the credits. Her plot and defeat may be a loop, but that wouldn't mean time doesn't continue after.

When Ultimecia is killed and the compression ends, the world must revert to some point from which to continue onward as normal. This point that the world reverts to after the end of time compression is the point where Ultimecia grants her powers to Edea.

Not sure where you're getting that from. All the weird trippy stuff happens after that scene, after all, so things clearly haven't neatly reset.

Plus, Squall is present when Ultimecia passes her powers to Edea, and yet he doesn't just live his life out from that moment afterwards.

 

[RikuoAmero]

Very nicely put. I would argue that Ultimecia technically "wins" in both scenarios. Her goal was to be the only creature in existence and it can certainly be argued that stopping the flow of time from progressing beyond her (thus making her the most important creature in existence) would meet that goal.

Wait, that's not really indicated. We see the SeeDs celebrating post-Ultimecia's defeat in the credits. Her plot and defeat may be a loop, but that wouldn't mean time doesn't continue after.

When Ultimecia is killed and the compression ends, the world must revert to some point from which to continue onward as normal. This point that the world reverts to after the end of time compression is the point where Ultimecia grants her powers to Edea.

Not sure where you're getting that from. All the weird trippy stuff happens after that scene, after all, so things clearly haven't neatly reset.

Plus, Squall is present when Ultimecia passes her powers to Edea, and yet he doesn't just live his life out from that moment afterwards.

Yes we see the party during the credit sequence - happening in their own time period. Imagine if the events of Discs 1 to 3 happen in Year 1 and Ultimecia lives in Year 1000, the party we see after her defeat happens in Year 1. Time would continue to flow from Year 1 to Year 1000, but once Year 1000 rolls around again and Squall and Co. pop out of nowhere and confront Ultimecia, then time loops again. It cannot progress beyond the point of the confrontation.

 

[Silvanus]

Yes we see the party during the credit sequence - happening in their own time period. Imagine if the events of Discs 1 to 3 happen in Year 1 and Ultimecia lives in Year 1000, the party we see after her defeat happens in Year 1. Time would continue to flow from Year 1 to Year 1000, but once Year 1000 rolls around again and Squall and Co. pop out of nowhere and confront Ultimecia, then time loops again. It cannot progress beyond the point of the confrontation.

That doesn't necessarily follow. That assumes that after the Time Compression fails, time resets to Year 1, only to progress the same way again-- its just as possible that when the Time Compression failed, time didn't "reset" to any specific moment, but rather everything was defaulted back to its own period to exist as it otherwise would have done. That would mean Squall is sent back to his own period, and the future would carry on past Ultimecia's failed experiment.

 

[Roboshi]

Yes we see the party during the credit sequence - happening in their own time period. Imagine if the events of Discs 1 to 3 happen in Year 1 and Ultimecia lives in Year 1000, the party we see after her defeat happens in Year 1. Time would continue to flow from Year 1 to Year 1000, but once Year 1000 rolls around again and Squall and Co. pop out of nowhere and confront Ultimecia, then time loops again. It cannot progress beyond the point of the confrontation.

That doesn't necessarily follow. That assumes that after the Time Compression fails, time resets to Year 1, only to progress the same way again-- its just as possible that when the Time Compression failed, time didn't "reset" to any specific moment, but rather everything was defaulted back to its own period to exist as it otherwise would have done. That would mean Squall is sent back to his own period, and the future would carry on past Ultimecia's failed experiment.

Exactly! We see the cast surviving but not the events resetting otherwise we wouldn't see the cast on balamb Garden as it is flying, it would still be stuck in the ground.


The game shows events happening AFTER the cast kills ultimecia, they hold a freakin' party to celebrate and Laguna reunited with ellone to visit Raine's grave.

 

[crazyarms33]

Can someone please explain how a gunblade works? I think it's a pretty sweet idea but I just don't get it. It's been years since I played it so I may have missed it, but I don't remember seeing a barrel anywhere on the weapon. Just a sword. Also if memory serves, isn't Squall's gunblade a revolver? If so, how can he use it as a sword and whack it against enemies without it breaking at the cylinder? Because video games? Also how the in the fuck does he reload it? Or am I just overthinking this?

 

[Roboshi]

Can someone please explain how a gunblade works? I think it's a pretty sweet idea but I just don't get it. It's been years since I played it so I may have missed it, but I don't remember seeing a barrel anywhere on the weapon. Just a sword. Also if memory serves, isn't Squall's gunblade a revolver? If so, how can he use it as a sword and whack it against enemies without it breaking at the cylinder? Because video games? Also how the in the fuck does he reload it? Or am I just overthinking this?

Okay the lore of the game says that the GUN part doesn't actually fire, it instead has a small explosion in the revolver part of the weapon that makes the blade vibrate doing more damage. Squall probably reloads it between battles and I think we're supposed to go with the metal being stronger than real life metals.

EDIT; Taken from the FF wiki "Despite its name, it cannot be used as a gun, meaning it does not fire projectiles, and can therefore only be used in melee combat, making it more like a gun supplementing a sword than a blade supplementing a firearm, e.g. a bayonet on a rifle. The firing of the gunblade's rounds induces a tremor in the blade causing it to deal additional damage to whatever it strikes."