Seriously its just Red Skull using cosmic powers and stuff to alter reality. As soon as somebody kicks the crap out of him, everything will be back to normal. This was never something that was going to be permanent and stuff. Its about as far permanent as what is happening in Agenst of Shield right now.
But in the end, what you're saying is exactly why I'm not happy about this. I'm not so annoyed at the changes (I mean they're stupid, but temporary), it's that they are wasting everyone's time. We finally got Cap back, after he spent a couple of years as a fogey and we got the greaatttt Captain Falcon. I was excited, he had a cool new look and shield, and he is now one of the most popular characters in the MCU, but what we got was this. Now we have to endure another few years without real Captain America. You could say that I should just ignore it, but it's a goddamn universe wide event and all the other comics and characters I actually enjoy are going to be affected.
Short answer: No. Long answer: They sometimes act with the Nazis as a means to gain power, or because a current leader (like the Red Skull) is a Nazi, but the basic goal of this ancient organisation is to control the world. Racial and sexual discrimination is not a goal that Hydra sees any reason to pursue for its own sake.
I'm not denying that they've been used as analogues for Nazis in the past. What I'm denying is that they're an actual Nazi organization. They're not, despite what people want to claim.
Nick Spencer's been getting the roasting he deserves on Twitter over this particularly stupid arc. Shit like this almost killed comics in the 90s and is definitely hurting them again.
Nick Spencer's been getting the roasting he deserves on Twitter over this particularly stupid arc. Shit like this almost killed comics in the 90s and is definitely hurting them again.
A few months back there were reports that comic book stores were complaining about Marvel's constant events and issue #0s. Apparently they are hurting comic book sales.
At least they didn't make the young, time displaced Iceman from the past gay while keeping his older self from the present straight because that would be confusing and go against 50 years of established comic continuity...
It's like Marvel learned the wrong lesson when 95% of comic book fans backed Cap immediately and without reservation in Civil War.
Rogers should have stayed dead on those courthouse steps.
Ravenbom said:
At least they didn't make the young, time displaced Iceman from the past gay while keeping his older self from the present straight because that would be confusing and go against 50 years of established comic continuity...
The Cosmic Cube can totally re-write a character's history, a power formerly reserved to... whatever writer worked their way far enough up the totem pole to play with Marvel's "big toys"...
In that light, it's kind of meta.
Comics have been throwing things at the wall to see what sticks pretty much since comics- trying to come up with outrageous stories that would spark interest (and in some cases, controversy) and in turn drum up sales. Better still if the outrageous can be summed up in a high-concept splash line and a single cover image.
It's easier than finding people who can a) actually write well and b) continue to write well when thrust into the thick of the convoluted strands of superhero continuity.
I don't love it-- it smacks of the kind of melodrama that we occasionally dream comics have risen above as they've striven to become a more mature medium- but as has been observed, this, too, shall likely pass.
Sigh... I'm gonna address all the questions people usually have about this. SPOILERS GALORE!
So Steve Rogers is a Nazi now?
No. In the latest issue of his comic book, he killed the Red Skull precisely because he hates what the Skull stands for.
But Hydra is a Nazi organization, right?
Short answer: No. Long answer: They sometimes act with the Nazis as a means to gain power, or because a current leader (like the Red Skull) is a Nazi, but the basic goal of this ancient organisation is to control the world. Racial and sexual discrimination is not a goal that Hydra sees any reason to pursue for its own sake.
So he wants to conquer the world with the help of Hydra?
That's correct.
Is he mind-controlled or something?
Not exactly. The Red Skull used a cosmic cube to rewrite Steve's past into a past where Steve was raised to be a Hydra agent and chose to work for them.
So what kind of world is Steve looking to create by conquering it?
This remains unclear. He's said that he wants to make Hydra into what it's supposed to be, and that he regards what the Skull turned the organization into as a perversion of Hydra's true purpose.
How could Steve lift Thor's hammer that one time if he's been in Hydra all along?
Obviously, that event has been edited out by the cosmic cube.
Queen Michael, you're a longtime fan of Captain America comics. Isn't this plot twist upsetting to you?
No, because I know that it's only temporary, and I feel it makes for an interesting story.
Also, can I just say that it's a tad annoying when people who don't read Steve Rogers's comic book say they're upset about this change? If you don't feel that the comic book Captain America is worth your time or your money then you're clearly not all that passionate about the character.
It's one thing if you stopped reading the book temporarily because you don't like a particular creative team, but if you've never followed his comic book then sorry, you're like a vegan complaining about the seasoning in a steakhouse. Like the movies? Good, but the movie character is a different person from the comics character.
(I have the same problem with people who demand diverse comics but don't buy them, choosing instead to only share positive posts about them on Tumblr.)
Don't be the kind of person who complains about the comics he finds bad but doesn't support the comics that are good.
the article says that the reality warping was in fact turning him back into the hydra agent he had been from the start meaning he went from bad->good->bad. since the allies originally used the cube to make the Nazis lose the war and turn steve into a hero which means the steve rogers the world has been following has been a fake created by the cube
Lol, that sounds hilarious. I don't care for superhero media much myself, but Captain America was always the least interesting superhero to me, anyway. He's on a level with Aquaman.
Queen Michael, you're a longtime fan of Captain America comics. Isn't this plot twist upsetting to you?
No, because I know that it's only temporary, and I feel it makes for an interesting story.
Also, can I just say that it's a tad annoying when people who don't read Steve Rogers's comic book say they're upset about this change? If you don't feel that the comic book Captain America is worth your time or your money then you're clearly not all that passionate about the character.
It's one thing if you stopped reading the book temporarily because you don't like a particular creative team, but if you've never followed his comic book then sorry, you're like a vegan complaining about the seasoning in a steakhouse. Like the movies? Good, but the movie character is a different person from the comics character.
(I have the same problem with people who demand diverse comics but don't buy them, choosing instead to only share positive posts about them on Tumblr.)
Don't be the kind of person who complains about the comics he finds bad but doesn't support the comics that are good.
As a fan of Captain America comics as well, can I just say that... this was an incredibly dumb move for Marvel to play given the movie portrayal of Captain America? Like, I can totally get people who don't read the comics having a go at it, because fuck, it's not like this story is a warm and welcome introduction to the world of comics. Going from 'Actual Hero Captain America' from the movies to 'Cosmic-Retcon My First Nihilism Class' doesn't exactly engender an interest in the character or a desire to support the series, and all the dumb marketing shit Marvel's been playing up about the whole she-bang hasn't exactly been helping. People getting mad at the comic despite not reading it is understandable because... well, fuck, why would you read it to begin with?
...Also because, quite bluntly, it's just a fucking dumb story. Like, jesus christ, Spencer must be king of the fucking Blowjobs because I can't fathom how else he got a writing job. A Cosmic Retcon AND fucking with a main-continuity hero? Bro, do you even listen to what fans hate the most? And the fact that it has to be temporary (Status Quo Is God) is also annoying because it means fuck-all over the entire arc will actually stick around anyway. Just a trifecta of dumb, meaningless controversy for no reason beyond... shits and giggles, I guess.
...You know what, that's a question - who the fuck is this arc for anyway? The only people I've seen praising the move aren't quite whom I'd try to curry as a long-term audience for a hero that punches Nazis, if you catch my drift, so I'm just wondering... who is it for? It's not for newcomers, and it's not for veterans, so... yeah. Is it just Spencer jerking off for a year and a half?
Love it, love everything about it. I may not have actually picked up a comic book since secret wars 2015 but cap becoming a literal Nazi is definitely an idea I can get behind.
...Also because, quite bluntly, it's just a fucking dumb story. Like, jesus christ, Spencer must be king of the fucking Blowjobs because I can't fathom how else he got a writing job. A Cosmic Retcon AND fucking with a main-continuity hero? Bro, do you even listen to what fans hate the most? And the fact that it has to be temporary (Status Quo Is God) is also annoying because it means fuck-all over the entire arc will actually stick around anyway. Just a trifecta of dumb, meaningless controversy for no reason beyond... shits and giggles, I guess.
...You know what, that's a question - who the fuck is this arc for anyway? The only people I've seen praising the move aren't quite whom I'd try to curry as a long-term audience for a hero that punches Nazis, if you catch my drift, so I'm just wondering... who is it for? It's not for newcomers, and it's not for veterans, so... yeah. Is it just Spencer jerking off for a year and a half?
Remember, Marvel's financial woes are due to diversity. Not anything to do with making ComicCap into someone MovieCap (or even Chris Evans) would punch.
Also, can I just say that it's a tad annoying when people who don't read Steve Rogers's comic book say they're upset about this change? If you don't feel that the comic book Captain America is worth your time or your money then you're clearly not all that passionate about the character.
It's one thing if you stopped reading the book temporarily because you don't like a particular creative team, but if you've never followed his comic book then sorry, you're like a vegan complaining about the seasoning in a steakhouse. Like the movies? Good, but the movie character is a different person from the comics character.
(I have the same problem with people who demand diverse comics but don't buy them, choosing instead to only share positive posts about them on Tumblr.)
Don't be the kind of person who complains about the comics he finds bad but doesn't support the comics that are good.
Jokes aside, I find this baffling as well. As someone who does actually visit comic book stores and try to keep up with my favorite characters, I always find it a little annoying when people who can't be bothered to follow any of the books or storylines start screaming about what is and isn't good for the character. I'm not a Captain America reader so I don't have anything invested. I think a lot of it is knee jerk reactions by people who like the movies and base their entire conception of the character around that and don't want it changed or influenced. I can understand that a little bit, but these different version of the character can coexist without the magnetic poles shifting. I mean just look at Batman- You've got Detective, Batman, Batman and Robin, Superman and Batman, The Dark Knight, plus the movies, games, cartoons, shows, etc etc. You didn't see any of this hoopla when
Gordon takes over as Batman in the late New 52 run
just as an example. Obviously that's not as foundation shaking as this but still, it's comics- nothing is permanent.
I will say though, whenver I get a look at a few pages from a Marvel book I'm reminded why I primarily buy DC stuff. In your opinion is Marvel really in as rough shape as a lot of people say? What are some quality books I might want to check out?
Also, can I just say that it's a tad annoying when people who don't read Steve Rogers's comic book say they're upset about this change? If you don't feel that the comic book Captain America is worth your time or your money then you're clearly not all that passionate about the character.
It's one thing if you stopped reading the book temporarily because you don't like a particular creative team, but if you've never followed his comic book then sorry, you're like a vegan complaining about the seasoning in a steakhouse. Like the movies? Good, but the movie character is a different person from the comics character.
(I have the same problem with people who demand diverse comics but don't buy them, choosing instead to only share positive posts about them on Tumblr.)
Don't be the kind of person who complains about the comics he finds bad but doesn't support the comics that are good.
Jokes aside, I find this baffling as well. As someone who does actually visit comic book stores and try to keep up with my favorite characters, I always find it a little annoying when people who can't be bothered to follow any of the books or storylines start screaming about what is and isn't good for the character. I'm not a Captain America reader so I don't have anything invested. I think a lot of it is knee jerk reactions by people who like the movies and base their entire conception of the character around that and don't want it changed or influenced. I can understand that a little bit, but these different version of the character can coexist without the magnetic poles shifting. I mean just look at Batman- You've got Detective, Batman, Batman and Robin, Superman and Batman, The Dark Knight, plus the movies, games, cartoons, shows, etc etc. You didn't see any of this hoopla when
Gordon takes over as Batman in the late New 52 run
just as an example. Obviously that's not as foundation shaking as this but still, it's comics- nothing is permanent.
I will say though, whenever I get a look at a few pages from a Marvel book I'm reminded why I primarily buy DC stuff. In your opinion is Marvel really in as rough shape as a lot of people say? What are some quality books I might want to check out?
I still like Marvel's stuff. Here's what I'd recommend:
Squirrel Girl is a good stand-alone title that you either love or have zero interest in. I love it. It's written by Ryan North, who also makes Dinosaur Comics.
I also love Sam Wilson: Captain America. It's not afraid to get political, and that's a plus in my book. And the jokes range from good to hilarious.
Another great book is Gwenpool, which is about a girl from the real world who goes to the Marvel comics world to work as a mercenary. It doesn't take itself even remotely seriously, and is written by the same guy who writes Dr. McNinja.
Jessica Jones requires you to have read the previous miniseries about her, but if you have, it's quality stuff.
Ms. Marvel got a bit over-hyped because of the entire Muslim thing, but it's still a solid read.
Venom's got his own book again, and it's worth it if you like the character (though be warned, it's another guy in the suit again).
Batman wasn't replaced by a black guy or a lady, like the fervor over Falcon taking over
B) DC sales were tanking at the time, hence Rebirth.
And C)It wasn't revealed that Raz al Ghul reverted the timestream to it's original form, whereupon it was revealed that Batman had joined the league of assassins and was totally down with mass murder all along.
C) It wasn't revealed that Raz al Ghul reverted the timestream to it's original form, whereupon it was revealed that Batman had joined the league of assassins and was totally down with mass murder all along.
This is an excellent analogy and you're right, that would piss people off to no end. That's why I mentioned that obviously my example wasn't close in significance to what's going on with Cap but just to illustrate that big events frequently fly under the radar. Maybe DC will crib a few ideas and make it so that the Joker was the good guy all along and Wonder Woman is a brainwashed agent of the patriarchy.
...You know what, that's a question - who the fuck is this arc for anyway? The only people I've seen praising the move aren't quite whom I'd try to curry as a long-term audience for a hero that punches Nazis, if you catch my drift, so I'm just wondering... who is it for? It's not for newcomers, and it's not for veterans, so... yeah. Is it just Spencer jerking off for a year and a half?
Remember, Marvel's financial woes are due to diversity. Not anything to do with making ComicCap into someone MovieCap (or even Chris Evans) would punch.
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