I miss the old RPG style.

[Scars Unseen]

Old RPG's, while well made and carefully crafted, are in the process of the conversion to higher powers. In other words, THE DEVELOPERS ARE DOING THEIR BEST TO BRING THEM TO LIGHT WHERE THEY ARE APPEALING.

Take Fallout, It was definitly great, timeless and enjoyable. Then after the whole problem with interplay, Bethesda brought a stimpak to the franchise and brought it to life with Fallout 3, an Oblivion styled world while STILL keeping the traditional formula; huge world, story, V.A.T.S., dark-witty humor (Though not as much as new vegas).

There wasn't much for character, but its pretty damned difficult to write diverse characters when there is the entire world one must focus on first.

If there is one complaint I hate more in most RPG's is that we should take a step back to this:

Or this:

Thats not roleplaying, thats just following a path and using what weapons/powers you want, wait, that sounds like a- Typical Expectation from a First Person Shooter.

People always bring up the old days, as much as nostalgia is great and we should learn from the past, we should NOT be using it as the main way to the future. We wa-NO, NEED, games to advance in order to make them better: RPG's, FPS's, JRPG's whatever the genre.

So complain all you wish, I don't have anything against you. You have your opinions and I have mine, but take a look at what we have now to what we have then:

2012:

2003:

Notice a difference? And before you drop the "No, they're both horribly written games that are bugged to hell" line, THINK about what we have. There is more than meets the eye.

There certainly is. For instance, without today's powerful processors, the following just wouldn't be possible:

 

[Kahunaburger]

-Difficult combat system that explained little to nothing.
-Normal difficulty was too hard for a lot of people

It does boggle my mind that Dragon Age: Origins was too hard for people. It requires you to master exactly one tactic to beat anything in the game (two if you count kiting.)

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

I have to laugh at anyone trying to defend the new action "RPGs" as being complex -or even more laughable, more complex- than the old, proper RPGs. If this is your opinion, you're just plain wrong and it's 99% certain you haven't even played a proper RPG. No doubt some 14 year old will come along now and accuse me of elitism, which is the usual response of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about to someone who does.

 

[scorptatious]

I don't what it is with these nostalgia threads, but they just bug the hell out of me.

OT: Now, I do like a lot of older RPG's as you can tell by my avatar. And while I can somewhat agree with some people's complaints about some of modern day RPG's, I still have fun with them. The Mass Effect games had an engaging story-line with a great cast of characters and RPG aspects.

FFXIII, contrary to popular belief, is a good game with a unique and fast paced combat system, likable characters, awesome bosses, and good music. I can agree however that it's pretty linear with it's level design. But the second half of the game kinda makes up for that.

And from what I've heard, Xenoblade is a really good game. I may actually try it out sometime.

Again, there is no "nostalgia" in sight here. Things have changed and many of us think that change has been for the worse. This is a perfectly reasonable position to take, it has nothing to do with being blinded by nostalgia.

But your opinion of FFXIII suggests that you and I have radically different ideas about what constitutes "good" or "bad", so I guess there's not much point debating it.

Not really. I've read some of your other posts, and I do agree with you on player choice and the ability to form your own character. Games like Demon's Souls and Dark Souls (Which I neglected to mention in my last post) provide this.

I'll admit, FFXIII isn't without it's flaws. Compared to some of the older FF's like say, FFVII, the ability to choose how your characters develop is more limited. Plus the game's story could have been better. All in all though, I still feel the game is good on it's own merits and is given more hate than it deserves.

 

[Warped_Ghost]

-Difficult combat system that explained little to nothing.
-Normal difficulty was too hard for a lot of people

It does boggle my mind that Dragon Age: Origins was too hard for people. It requires you to master exactly one tactic to beat anything in the game (two if you count kiting.)

Did you play on the PC version or a console version?

 

[Kahunaburger]

-Difficult combat system that explained little to nothing.
-Normal difficulty was too hard for a lot of people

It does boggle my mind that Dragon Age: Origins was too hard for people. It requires you to master exactly one tactic to beat anything in the game (two if you count kiting.)

Did you play on the PC version or a console version?

PC - I heard the console version had bad controls, but I'm not sure that increases the difficulty in a game where you can pause and give orders.

 

[CrazyCapnMorgan]

*looks at Legend of Mana*

*looks at Wild ARMs*

*looks at Chrono Trigger*

*looks at Secret of Mana*

I know how you feel, OP. I know how you feel.

Captcha: labour of love.

WTH, captcha?!?!

 

[Warped_Ghost]

-Difficult combat system that explained little to nothing.
-Normal difficulty was too hard for a lot of people

It does boggle my mind that Dragon Age: Origins was too hard for people. It requires you to master exactly one tactic to beat anything in the game (two if you count kiting.)

Did you play on the PC version or a console version?

PC - I heard the console version had bad controls, but I'm not sure that increases the difficulty in a game where you can pause and give orders.

It still kinda did because not only were the controls not the greatest but the view was zoomed in to one character at a time. Even though you could pause time it still took away earlier awareness of situations were you should pause the game.

 

[kortin]

You can't get anywhere by using the same tired formula. Remember that. The old has to be done away to make room for the new.

 

[CAPTCHA]

I have to laugh at anyone trying to defend the new action "RPGs" as being complex -or even more laughable, more complex- than the old, proper RPGs. If this is your opinion, you're just plain wrong and it's 99% certain you haven't even played a proper RPG. No doubt some 14 year old will come along now and accuse me of elitism, which is the usual response of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about to someone who does.

How old are we talking here? I'd say Skyrim was far more complex than Pool of Radiance, even though they are essentially the same game. Also streamlining is not always a bad thing. That's why people prefer a good GUI for their OS over typing in algorithms manually, even if the latter can offer more vesitility. Complexity is a matter of taste and function, not necessarily a requirement for quality.

 

[Vault101]

I do not wear glasses, and stay away from the distorting nostalgia goggles too.

Instead, I like changes, improvements, new ideas and streamlining in places where it fits. I'm not saying older RPG's were nor are bad, but I'm just not jumping into this nostalgic train. Those that tend to have hints of elitism around here and there.

thankyouthankoyuthankouythankyouthankyouthankyou

god...no offence but the nostalga wank is getting too much for me (not saying they dont have a point) but its almost enough to drive me to away...to IGN where they are dumb but happy

ok yeah, I'm being an ass but this shit is all I've been hearing latley

oh and especially when somone who points out how young they are goes off about "todays games"

 

[Vault101]

I don't what it is with these nostalgia threads, but they just bug the hell out of me.

.

I know how you feel...it actually makes me angry for some reason

while I can understand the apeal of all this complex RPG type stuff....I think I'd still take a game Like Mass effect 2 or 3 any day (and come on..ME1 wasnt even that good, admit it)

actiony fun with "talky/cinematic/story" fun

I loved Fallout NV as well

 

[Vault101]

I have to laugh at anyone trying to defend the new action "RPGs" as being complex -or even more laughable, more complex- than the old, proper RPGs. If this is your opinion, you're just plain wrong and it's 99% certain you haven't even played a proper RPG. No doubt some 14 year old will come along now and accuse me of elitism, which is the usual response of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about to someone who does.

I'm 20 and you sound pretty elitist to me

but seriosuly....examples of a "real" RPG?

 

[Vault101]

Without the human/humanoid aspect of your character, you lose so much in terms of story telling. Think of your favorite books, movies, comics....the best stories are those that deal with character developement. You lose that in the "blank slate, giant world" games.

I disliked Skryim/Oblivion for thease very reasons....but I think those have more to do with the games themselfs that a current trend in modern games

hance why I much prefered Fallout 3 and Fallout NV

 

[DeathSwitch109]

While I do miss the old RPG style, action RPG's are still fun. If I had it my way both styles would be equally successful...but we don't live in that kind of world.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

I have to laugh at anyone trying to defend the new action "RPGs" as being complex -or even more laughable, more complex- than the old, proper RPGs. If this is your opinion, you're just plain wrong and it's 99% certain you haven't even played a proper RPG. No doubt some 14 year old will come along now and accuse me of elitism, which is the usual response of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about to someone who does.

How old are we talking here? I'd say Skyrim was far more complex than Pool of Radiance, even though they are essentially the same game. Also streamlining is not always a bad thing. That's why people prefer a good GUI for their OS over typing in algorithms manually, even if the latter can offer more vesitility. Complexity is a matter of taste and function, not necessarily a requirement for quality.

Skyrim more complex than Pool of Radiance? Only in a parallel universe where the rules of logic do not apply could that be true. Just admit your fawning admiration for Skyrim is obscuring your sense of reason. You're already somehow hurt that I've accused less complex games like Skyrim for being lower quality, which I have not done.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Me, too, OP. Me, too. >_<

I do think we'll see a few more in the coming years, though. Quite excited for Ni no Kuni, hoping Level 5 can redeem themselves for White Knight Chronicles.

EDIT: Incidentally, this thread makes me happy. So many awesome RPGs and RPG fans. :'D

 

[Bertylicious]

VTM: Bloodlines and Fallout 2 were very special games. They were funny and they were fun. They were also profoundly flawed which made them rather niche.

Morrowind, Baldurs Gate, all the rest were alright, they were good. Lets not get carried away though.

Let us also not forget the enormous achievements more recent games have made.

 

[Kahunaburger]

-Difficult combat system that explained little to nothing.
-Normal difficulty was too hard for a lot of people

It does boggle my mind that Dragon Age: Origins was too hard for people. It requires you to master exactly one tactic to beat anything in the game (two if you count kiting.)

I think alot of ppl tried to play it like an action rpg (on normal prob) Not pausing, just running around with their character only/mostly, and relying on the scripts for fellow party members. So naturally it's gonna be alot harder like that, then if you were playing with scripts off, commanding everyone on your own, pausing often..

Haha, sadly true. If that Bioware Command and Conquer game was being made by the same Bioware that made Dragon Age: Origins, I would half expect David Gaider to try and design the game so that playing it as a one-unit action game and playing like an RTS were (supposedly) equally viable options. And, of course, to fail miserably and wind up with an easy RTS with a wonky control scheme.

How old are we talking here? I'd say Skyrim was far more complex than Pool of Radiance, even though they are essentially the same game. Also streamlining is not always a bad thing. That's why people prefer a good GUI for their OS over typing in algorithms manually, even if the latter can offer more vesitility. Complexity is a matter of taste and function, not necessarily a requirement for quality.

I wouldn't really call Skyrim that complex (certainly not compared to a gold box game) because the actual level of player involvement is very simplistic. A tight, balanced, challenging experience that requires you to use all your options requires more complex gameplay decisions than a game that gives you a variety of options but never really tests your mastery of them.

Compare:

 

[Kahunaburger]

You can't get anywhere by using the same tired formula.

I agree. That's why I don't get the whole "turn all RPGs into non-threatening action games with familiar control schemes" nonsense.

The old has to be done away to make room for the new.