"I paid for this?": The decline in movie making

[misfit119]

Here's all I hear from discussions like this, "Blah blah blah blah NOSTALGIA blah blah blah". Give modern movies a decade or two and you'll be looking back on the good ones with the same sense of, "movies were better in the 00s". Just as much garbage came out back then too, the only reason you don't know about it is because it was crap and got forgotten.

Nostalgia doesn't go for everyone and yes, there was a lot of crap then too but there was also a log of good and even great, a lot of memorable shit.

Yes but obviously you guys who feel like that are in the distinct minority. There are a lot of us who go see these newer movies and are thoroughly entertained because we're not expecting a brand new age of the classics. With a very few exceptions the classics are classics because they inspired most of the modern generation of movies. If those movies didn't exist nothing else would so most other movies are just pale shadows of the older ones.

And ya know what? Lots of us out there are okay with that. We go to the movies to be entertained and guess what? We are. Avatar - I loved it. It was a great movie because it kept me entertained almost the entire time. Whether it was pretty pictures, action sequences or me just being interested in the N'avi I was kept interested. There's plenty of other movies I like that others would bash but I love. There's also plenty of classics that I find to be totally unbearable so it's a huge matter of taste.

Besides Michael Bay movies. He can burn in hell along with his movies.

But we can sit here and do this for anything. Did you buy a Wii? Then I blame you for supporting the shovelware that's foisted off on the market. Buy a 360? Thanks for showing Microsoft that a laughably high hardware failure rate is perfectly okay. The list goes on and on and it's totally irrelevant. It's a matter of what you're expecting and what you're getting and it's just how things go.

 

[Bat Vader]

So because I paid to see Transformers 1 & 2 than I am partly to blame for the decrease in film-making care and quality? So even though I love the film Synecdoche, New York and think that Charlie Kaufman is an excellent writer that is canceled out because I saw movies you think are bad?

 

[Enkidu88]

Unfortunately I think your seeing the past through some seriously rose-tinted glasses, mate. The past is filled with just as much crap as it is today, just that today it's flashier, computer-graphic assisted crap.

Go watch the Big Sleep (made only 5 years after Citizen Kane) and tell me if you can make any sense of the plot.

Go watch ANYTHING by Ed Wood.

Go watch the Conquerer (featuring John fucking Wayne as the Mongolian leader Ghengis Khan).

So yeah, it's all well and good to say our era is filled with crap but only because we're living in it and have experienced the crap. In another 50 years kids will probably be saying that their era is horrible crap and cite the Shawshank Redemption, American History X, Forrest Gump, The Pianist, so on and so forth.

 

[Naheal]

Good read. Ultimately distracted by Konata, but you had some good points.

 

[One of Many]

I loved Avatar thank you very much and Revenge of the Fallen rocked (but thats because of something else, I wasn't paying too much attention to big chuck of the movie, no further details). I also liked 300 but then again, I like bad movies, like the Maneater Series. On the other hand, I have some really good movies sitting on my selves sent to the really bad ones.

 

[Nazulu]

Yes but obviously you guys who feel like that are in the distinct minority. There are a lot of us who go see these newer movies and are thoroughly entertained because we're not expecting a brand new age of the classics. With a very few exceptions the classics are classics because they inspired most of the modern generation of movies. If those movies didn't exist nothing else would so most other movies are just pale shadows of the older ones.

Brand new age of the classics? I think I know what you mean but I find most movies just generally bad, the way they're made and all. I don't expect something original or amazing work with every movie (even though some would be nice), no bloody way!

And ya know what? Lots of us out there are okay with that. We go to the movies to be entertained and guess what? We are. Avatar - I loved it. It was a great movie because it kept me entertained almost the entire time. Whether it was pretty pictures, action sequences or me just being interested in the N'avi I was kept interested. There's plenty of other movies I like that others would bash but I love. There's also plenty of classics that I find to be totally unbearable so it's a huge matter of taste.

In my previous post I said I disagreed with blaming everyone for down fall in quality. I'm happy you still enjoy movies today but I'm still going to criticise it.

 

[Doug]

Unfortunately, careful production and memorable moments in movie making have been tossed to the side in favor of bigger budgets, bigger names, franchise adaptations, and remake, upon remake, upon remake, upon remakes of remakes. Movies have become less a "performer x audience" relationship and more of a "supplier x consumer" relationship. Turning a perfectly fine industry into a business rather than an outlet of entertainment.

Sorry, I have to disagree with this point...well, partially. Its easy to look at the past of movie making and go "Wow, these are all great", but that is because the bulk of the crappy movies of the past are either no longer remembered because no one cared enough, or just weren't preserved because they lacked cultural impact...

That said, Hollywood has turned film from art to industry and from skill with a limited budget to Big budgets with board, generic appeal, and I do suspect the ratio of crap to quality movies is higher now than back in the days of old.

 

[Do4600]

Timotei... have you even SEEN Citizen Kane? Do you know just how mind-numbingly boring it is? It doesn't even stand up by modern standards.

Most modern film critics say that Citizen Kane far surpasses every movie that has come after it. So I'd say by modern standards it's standing up quite well.

I think the reason you say it's boring is because you've been spoiled by gunfights and cars exploding every six seconds in movies and television today. Your facilities for understanding and appreciating nuance and symbolism are impaired. This film will remain boring to you until you are able to recognize the subtle elements that are being used and appreciate their interaction.

 

[Doug]

Yes this is unfortunately true. I work in the industry, and due to the youtube, some extensive pirating of films, and lack of people going to theaters for anything other than blockbuster films, The industry is only going to keep spiraling downward into a repeat of the same slapstick comedy film with different highly popular actors.

I went to the cinema to see Kick Ass the other week, and I can see why YouTubeing and piracy are rampant... THEY DELIVER A BETTER EXPERIENCE! With pirated video, you don't have 20+ minutes of advertised the cinema are forcing you to watch before you get to see what you paid for, you don't get 'piracy is a crime' adverts insulting you for having the gall to pay for tickets by assuming you are a thief, and you don't have to buy the food and drink from the overpriced stand in the cinema.

That said, I've never pirated a movie, though I have seen 2 or 3 on YouTube (old ones)...and I ended up buying most of them on DVD later on. Including Downfall, which I was surprised to even find in the UK as its a german language film.

 

[Waweegee]

Sorry Bro, I think Trnasformers and it's deformed inbred offspring were pure Ejaculate. And It must be sooo fashionable for people to take Jabs at SAW, but I still hold it well above anything that Stephen King has vomited onto the big screen recently. And you know what makes 300 better than Star Wars? No Deus Ex Machinae. No pulling some convenient plot solving magical power from twixt your cheeks and saving the world. 300 was pure grit. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[cmstewart87]

Yes this is unfortunately true. I work in the industry, and due to the youtube, some extensive pirating of films, and lack of people going to theaters for anything other than blockbuster films, The industry is only going to keep spiraling downward into a repeat of the same slapstick comedy film with different highly popular actors.

I went to the cinema to see Kick Ass the other week, and I can see why YouTubeing and piracy are rampant... THEY DELIVER A BETTER EXPERIENCE! With pirated video, you don't have 20+ minutes of advertised the cinema are forcing you to watch before you get to see what you paid for, you don't get 'piracy is a crime' adverts insulting you for having the gall to pay for tickets by assuming you are a thief, and you don't have to buy the food and drink from the overpriced stand in the cinema.

That said, I've never pirated a movie, though I have seen 2 or 3 on YouTube (old ones)...and I ended up buying most of them on DVD later on. Including Downfall, which I was surprised to even find in the UK as its a german language film.

Foods expensive because the theaters only make money off of the food. the ticket sales go to pay for the rights to show the movie. same goes for advertising, and you can easily walk out of the theater and talk to your friends for 20 minutes if you'd rather not see the ads.

 

[Do4600]

blah blah didn't read your long rant.

Then why are you posting? can't you get suspended for that?

 

[crimsonshrouds]

never watched transformers nor do i really care to do so. liked some of the older cartoons...

actually haven't watched any movies of recent except the xmen origins, dark knight and the hulk that came out in recent years for some weird reason even im not sure of and i am one of the few people who kinda liked it...

and thats about all i have watched except for a few movies i rented but i cant remember those... anyway

im really looking forward to this
i prefer animation anyways anymore for some strange reason.

 

[Danoloto]

Am I wrong in saying the following then?

I go to the movies to be entertained. Now reading you artsy critics, I realise I'm easily pleased, although I still have personal distinctions between good and bad movies. But yes, I enjoy most movies, because I set the bar pretty low. I always go to the cinema with friends, we sit there for an hour and a half, and afterwards have a good laugh about it. My most recent endeavour was Alice in Wonderland. I liked the way it was build up, even though the 'epic battle' left me with something to be desired (like a good ending for instance).

Just to digress for a moment, but why are movies still increasing in average length? I remember the disney movies that spanned little over 60 minutes, and they were great. Now you go to your average action movie, you will be in that seat for two hours at least.

One part of the problem is that I live in Europe. The Netherlands no less. This means that all the non-blockbuster movies (read: Hurt Locker) will never be on our big screens. So most are direct to DVD here, somewhere in the back of a store, easily missed. So apart from having low standards, I'm basicly being fed low standards too.

Bottom line though, is that I enjoy being with friends, and we as a group decide to tackle a movie. If the movie is just average, I still have the comfort of hanging out with people I enjoy hanging out with.
To mo, cinema is just another part of the entertainment business. I refuse to go to any movie that brands itself as a comedy, because it just isn't. But I like an action movie, because the hero will go over the top, and to places I can only imagine.

Feel free to disagree, but for me, movies are little more than entertainment. Some you like, some you don't.

 

[edargh]

You seem to be blinded by nostalgia, your argument against 300 seems to be he says one line (which I myself considered to be a fairly good one) whereas a scene with one space wizard teaching a boy how to use the space magic is a classic.

The movie industry isn't really that bad, you're just getting distracted by all of the movies which aren't being targeted towards your demographic.

 

[Kud]

You got your "Quite frankly, I don't give a damn" quote wrong, it is supposed to be "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn"

Also, I don't think it is right for you to insult all those movies in your OP, I know they aren't as good as some movies, but insulting them isn't going to do any good for the people who do like those movies and don't like hearing people insult them.

Also, what are we supposed to be talking about, I didn't quite catch it...

Geez, I sound like an asshole in this post, sorry about that.

 

[moretimethansense]

I actually found gladiator to be fairly dull and only one line from Gladiator really sticks in my mind. While I think Gladiator was more tasteful, that does not make it better.

I'm not citing Gladiator as flawless, mind you. (The political subplot was dull and made no sense.) And I don't really mean to be as combative as I'm sounding -- obviously I just really really didn't like 300. But in terms of action, I'd set the sequences in Gladiator against anything from 300 any day of the week. I don't think it's even a close contest. And at least the whole film wasn't dull, in the way I found 300 to be.

And in terms of the dialogue, it's obviously a question of personal taste. But when I mentally compare and contrast those two films (I'm leaving Spartacus out of this, because it would embarrass both of them), I find the Spartans delivering dialogue that sounds crafted to be quoted by dorks in their Facebook profiles ("This... is... SPARTA!" "Tonight... we dine... in HELL!"). I can't think of any of it that compares with Maximus' "What we do in life, echoes in eternity" or Proximo's "Ultimately, we are all dead men" speech from Gladiator.

And that voiceover from 300... oh my God... if the rest of the movie weren't so creepy, that would've put it in "so bad, it's good" territory. Remember, kids: the world of the Spartans was hard. Cold. And hard.

That is a form of motivation though. If you hate something you'll work as hard as possible to get rid of them.

I generally dislike the use of ancient history as an excuse for present-day allegories of nationalist douchebaggery and find hate-based politics inherently creepy, resonant of some of the very worst movements of modern history and the present day. Mileage, and awareness of / interest in those issues, varies. But wherever one stands, I also find it profoundly alien and unfaithful to what actually made the Spartans admirable or interesting. 300 is one of the movies where people are IMO better off finding out about the actual history, without Miller's filter.

I will give you that some of the creatures were unrealistic and felt out of place though

Honestly, I could've lived with the silly rhinos. The Immortals as lizard-monsters and the endless slow-mo were dealbreakers for me.

If you think of it as an exaggerated tale told by the narrator as opposed to a literal accounting of events the whole thing makes far more sense

 

[AlphaOmega]

I admit I saw Transformers 2, I did not pay for it myself though. my mate did.

That said plenty good/decent movies still come out.
The problem isn't in the fact that people prefer dumb movies, it is in the fact that intelligence is no longer a perk you should be proud of.
Being less intelligent is hip nowadays and being a nerd is mostly shunned.
That is our problem, go watch Idiocracy; I do not agree with all it says but there is a lot of truth in it.