I shall now say unkind things about Dark Souls.

[The_Waspman]

Oh Dark Souls, what a... unique relationship I have with this game. Now I quite enjoyed Demon's Souls, yeah, it was tough, but it never at any point felt insurmountable. This did. I spent so long in Undead Berg, just shuttling between the bonfire and the Taurus Demon, getting owned, rinse and repeat. Then I left the game alone for ages, and came back to it.

I do appreciate what you're saying though, Zhukov. There are certain area's of the game I really don't like, and they're obviously on the way to boss fights that I have yet to complete. Currently I'm...

Spoiler: Mild Spoilers for area's further in the game

Trying to take down Seath the Scaleless, but the whole Crystal Cave area is boring. I'm sick of slaughtering those four crytal golems, still getting stressed about the invisible paths and then facing those frigging clams at the bottom (yes, I know I can just run past them), only to get pretty much instakilled by his crystal curse thing.

I had the same issue with Tomb of Giants. I can handle it being pitch black, and the dogs looming out of the darkness as I wave my light at them, but at least I managed to kill Nito first time.

I do appreciate, however, that this is a game for people who have a high tolerance for grinding things out. If perseverence and repetition are your thing, then this is your thing. I'll be honest though, There is absolutely no chance I will be playing this again once I complete it. Not even for the trophies, and I'm a huge trophy whore...

 

[Wayneguard]

Get killed by Capra Demon. Respawn. Cross bridge and fight four soldiers. (Yawn.) Go down stairs and fight three dogs. (Stretch.) Fight four thieves. (Wonder how long it's been since you cleaned the bathroom.) Fight three more thieves and two more dogs. (Yawn again.) Get to Capra Demon. (Finally!) Get killed by Capra Demon. Respawn. Cross bridge and fight four soldiers. (Yawn.) Go down stairs and fight three... yeah, you get the point.

Run from Firelink instead; it's much less tedious.

OT: You may think that the basic enemies in the burg are a cakewalk to bait, retaliate, rinse and repeat now but I assure you, the basic enemies don't stay that way for long. All I'll say is... fuck... you... giant skeleton dogs... (and fuck the dark too).

 

[Gottesstrafe]

Eh, I can understand where you're coming from. The game has a high beginner's difficulty curve, and it generally keeps the nuances of its controls to itself. However, once you beat that threshold (for me it was the Gargoyles you fight on top of the Parish), the game actually opens up to you dramatically once you're forced to change tactics and realize what a dumb sh*t (speaking from my own experience, not calling anyone here that) you were in the beginning. For example, in the beginning of the game I rolled a thief, yet played it like a warrior. I kept getting my ass kicked trying to block hits with a shield the size of a calculator watch and I kept running out of energy to dodge when I was using using my knife too much. After brute forcing my way through to the parish, I began cutting back on my combos and dodging more. I used my bow to pick off troublesome enemies and I focused on kiting the rest of them to line up back stabs (followed by the hilarious revelation that I could kick enemies out of their guard or off ledges).

The Capra Demon is just another example of how taking a moment to think strategy and consider your limitations helps in the long run. Because I played a thief, I figured I had no chance trying to tank the guy with suck low gear (rightly so too). I killed the dogs fairly quickly and ran up the stairs while taking potshots at the boss with my bow. After we started going around in circles and I memorized his attack patterns (the occasional knife plant to his face from a ledge helped too), I started getting creative with my attacks and beat him in a war of attrition. And really, that's what the game is supposed to be: a war of attrition.

As for some of the other complaints I've seen thus far:

You can run past enemies. The only enemies you HAVE to kill are bosses, you can simply avoid the rest (they stop following you after a certain distance). If you're too slow to run, just strip down to a sword and shield and streak past them.

There really isn't such a thing as a high level area, just areas where monsters are more unforgiving than most. You can get past the graveyard and all the way to the catacombs if you a) mastered the basics, b) use a holy weapon that kills them permanently, or c) run right past them. One time when I created a new character I did just this. Since I knew where the necromancers and treasure spawned, I bum rushed the important enemies and fled past the rest until I had gotten a hold of the great scythe. After that, the game was essentially a cake walk 3/4's of the way through.

While I would agree that the story is minimalistic, I wouldn't call it non existent. There's actually quite a bit hidden in the flavor texts of item and on loading screens, and the dialogue spoken by side characters and on loading screens. I actually like that aspect, that the game isn't going to go out of it's way to force feed you narrative, that instead you have to take it on your own initiative to find out what's going on. As far as the game is concerned, your only purpose here is to a) beat the final boss or b) die... a lot. It's kind of like an unmarked quest in its own right: Find out what the f*ck is going on around here.

 

[Soxafloppin]

I've never played Dark/Demons' souls but people seem quite afraid to say anything bad about it incase of "ITS CUS ITS TOO HARD FOR YOU NEWB GO PLAY COD" lol.

I hate games with stupid checkpoints though, Ruined Jak II for me.

 

[CarlsonAndPeeters]

Oh and I don't mind the challenge when it's actually fair. The people who say every death is fair are talking out of their collective assholes. Snipers. Anor Londo. Fuck!

This.

When the challenge is fair, this game rocks. Unfortunately, you're only engaged in fair combat about 50% of the time. The rest is just being overpowered, outnumbered, or ambushed such that you can't possibly survive your first time through, and the way to win is usually exploiting path finding and funneling enemies into small passages so you can manage the numbers. Not exciting or thrilling or fair.

I did enjoy Dark Souls but couldn't finish it because around Anor Londo it just got to be too much.

 

[Boommin]

Dark Souls = Castlevania Symphony of the Night in 3d. Your arguments are invalid.

 

[Westaway]

Yeah I really love the design of the game it's kind of fantasy mixed with photorealism and looks great.

Yeah i like how EVERYTHING looks evil. Which fits the story i made up for the game (since i was a bit lost on what as actually happening.)

Am i on the right lines thinking your character is exploring hell? Everything wants to kill you, yet you cant die. And your "hollow". The idea fits i think.

No, you're in Lordran. It's just a place that got fucked up by the bed of choas. There are fully fonctioning kingdoms outside of it.

 

[blutack]

If you are having trouble with the capra-demon instead of complaining about the cannon fodder why don't you ask for help?
lots of us will offer advice.
With that in mind, which weapon are you using?
heavier weapons tend to be harder to use relying on stun-locks and timing, making weak enemies tiresome to deal with.
While you might think specializing your character is a good idea mixing in sorcery can really help ie I am doing a level 10 run of the game and low level magic attacks allowed me to easily defeat most enemies so long as it was one on one.
even if you use a lighter shield don't try to parry on bosses.
There is a gimmick in this fight is you choose to use it where you can use repeated plunging attacks to absolutely destroy it (I wont go into details here its obvious once pointed out).
if you are desperate you can use the drake sword.
honestly half the fun of this game for me is planning how to beat the bosses in new ways with new weapons.
don't let the boss win, don't keep trying the same plan over and over unless you feel that it was your own fault that it didn't work.
it might sound patronizing but changing tactics does work and even if you cant get that to work you can still brute force over-level and steam-roll right over its face.
if you still feel overwhelmed post your general build and load out and I am sure people much better at the game than me will give you specific instructions on how to beat that fight.
I have to concede on the graphics point though. looking forward to the pc release.

 

[Aprilgold]

I agree. I've shown I can do this stuff already, don't make me do it again. I'll lose focus and slip up eventually as I try to find a way to get past faster. Just let me get back to the boss fight.

Thats the point, actually. The game wants perfection time and time again, therefore you have to achieve it. I played Super Meat Boy which was four times harder then Dark Souls or Demon Souls will ever be.

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Honestly, Souls is not that difficult if you just remember what you did the last time. All it is finding the right rhythm to kill the enemy and you essentially beat the game.

 

[daveman247]

Thats the point, actually. The game wants perfection time and time again, therefore you have to achieve it. I played Super Meat Boy which was four times harder then Dark Souls or Demon Souls will ever be.

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Honestly, Souls is not that difficult if you just remember what you did the last time. All it is finding the right rhythm to kill the enemy and you essentially beat the game.

Super meatboy was VERY TOUGH :O

But couldnt you say the same for that game? Just find the right rhythm to beat it?


Super meatboy only JUST avoided being tedious because the levels were about 10 seconds long.

 

[daveman247]

No, you're in Lordran. It's just a place that got fucked up by the bed of choas. There are fully fonctioning kingdoms outside of it.

So i am told. I think the hell idea is better. Or maybe purgatory. Endless death, crazy people, eatting souls. Makes sense

 

[Aprilgold]

Thats the point, actually. The game wants perfection time and time again, therefore you have to achieve it. I played Super Meat Boy which was four times harder then Dark Souls or Demon Souls will ever be.

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Honestly, Souls is not that difficult if you just remember what you did the last time. All it is finding the right rhythm to kill the enemy and you essentially beat the game.

Super meatboy was VERY TOUGH :O

But couldnt you say the same for that game? Just find the right rhythm to beat it?


Super meatboy only JUST avoided being tedious because the levels were about 10 seconds long.

In Meatboy if you missed a jump by a pixel you could very easily be killed. In Dark Souls, you have such a big freaking hole for error that you literally can not fail unless you literally sit there doing nothing.

 

[daveman247]

In Meatboy if you missed a jump by a pixel you could very easily be killed. In Dark Souls, you have such a big freaking hole for error that you literally can not fail unless you literally sit there doing nothing.

Im not saying its not difficult to find the "rhythm". I'm just saying, like dark souls you can just remember what you did last time to beat it as well The challenge is just finding the correct stratergy.

Theres not THAT MUCH room for error. A couple of good hits can kill you.

Not really that comparable actually.

 

[Tib088]

You raise some good points. But I still love the game. I do agree tho it the enimies between boss fights are boring. But it all adds up to make death something that you rly don't want. In most games you die, go back to check point and don't lose much. In dark souls, death carrys real punishment in multiple ways.

 

[kouriichi]

You know, i was in the same place as you at one point. Only a decent chunk earlier.

You know what it tends to be? Finding the class that fits you best. I tried the pyromancer, the thief, and the Wanderer, and i hated them all, and my time playing them. But then i started playing the Knight, and things just felt far better. I didnt like being super mobile, and constantly parrying/dodging to survive. Sure, i still DID dodge and parry, but as a knight, it wasnt as important thanks to my armor and shield choices. I was able to take the hits and retaliate for it.

And while i agree, the graphics arnt good in any regard, they arnt bad. Sorry if not every game is Crysis level :/ But honestly, if one of your main gripes is "Its not pretty to look at", then your looking at it to hard. Sure, some of the textures werent great, but thats only because you choose to stand there, glaring at them for more then a few seconds. Sure, its not the best looking game, but its not like graphics determine how good the game itself is.

Now, let me state the obvious here, Dying is BAD. Terrible. Avoid at all costs. 9/10 of my deaths were to ledges, or my own stupidity. "Oh hey, That Guy at the bottom of the tower looks awesome i wonder if hes friendl-OH GOD NO HES NOT A NICE PERSON!". And thats how i met Havel the Rock, and needed to purchase a new pair of pants at the same time. But that was my own stupidity for thinking that ANYTHING with a weapon larger then me could be friendly. Dying is avoidable. Most times i could have died, i got out and healed by playing smart, and not panicking. Sure, you will get a few cheap deaths were and there (Taurus demon knocked me off the ledge half a dozen times -_-) but honestly, getting back to where you were isnt hard. There are always shortcuts, and you DONT have to fight everything you come across. Most of the time when i have to get through an area, i ignore any enemy that wont block my path, only stopping if one of them lands a lucky hit, because i was derping off.

Its not tedious, because you dont HAVE to fight anything. 9/10 enemies are completely avoidable. Just take your chest piece off and cheese it. Undead Burg? After i cleared it of l00t, never fought there again. Lower Undead Burg? Same story. The Capra demon is a hard fight, but only because he has those dogs. Run up the stairs, and take them out 1v1 before you even think about going after Big Cap. Also, firebombs. They work great on him and the dogs. Toss one, dodge/block, get some distance, rinse, repeat. Hes only hard if you try to parry every attack he does, and fail them all. (I dodge far more then i parry, even as a knight in the heaviest armor i can get my hands on)

Its a fair game. A harsh one, with very little forgiveness, and lots of ledges. But its an easy mountain to climb so long as you take your time, find good footholds, and keep your gear as up to date as you can. Also, dont attack Havel unless your 100% sure he wont land a hit on you. Havel is not very nice, and doesnt take kindly to people in his tower. He will hit you, you will be in pain, and chances are, you will become a puddle. A very meaty puddle.

 

[Project_Xii]

Huh. Loooot of people that don't know how to play Dark Souls in this thread. But I suppose it's nice for them to have somewhere to band together.

I was never bored for single second in Dark Souls. Loved every minute. But then, i didn't suck and die at every enemy. So it basically comes down to:
Are you good at the game? Yes? You will like it.
Are you bad at the game? Yes? You will not like it.
Pretty simple in the end.

 

[Dansen]

You are only at the Capra Demon?
I'd say that you can only truly and completely judge the game when you have beaten Anor Londo, its only by then do you get access to all of the game's features.

The enemies get a lot more interesting than those warriors and pathetic excuse for knights you've been fighting so far.

Also read the flavor text and talk to NPCs all the time, they give a lot of information.

 

[The Wykydtron]

I was gonna let everything you just said pass,... untill you started talking about how much the visuals sucked.

Different strokes, I guess, but I fucking loved the visual design of this game. Everything about it felt weird, twisted, and creepy, which only amplified the sensation of a mad world that simply wants to kill you. It had enough of a knights/castle type fantasy design to feel grounded in reality, but altered to such a degree that it feels totally unique, and above all, fucked up.

The real problem I had with Dark Souls was that ultimately you don't get a sense of gratification from defeating tough monsters and Bosses anymore. You defeat one tough Boss, there'll be a tougher one after him. You defeat that guy, and an even stronger monster takes his place. And after you defeat him... You get my point. You never reach a point were you feel like you've properly achieved anything, because the rabbit hole keeps going deeper and deeper, constantly revealing tougher challenges. This is the main appeal of the game, but in every game you should atleast get a sense that you're gaining some ground.

And the fact that the game lacks a direct narrative and characters means there's no real emotional engagement or drive beyond "Fuck, I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die".

The game simply wore me out, and I stopped short of defeating The Bed of Chaos. Which is a lot more threatening than its name might suggest.

Wait, The Bed Of Chaos is more threatening than it sounds?! Oh fuck me i'm out. You win Sniper Whores! You can keep your sodding Gigabows That Fire Swords! I'm off to play some moar Skullgirls, AKA the only fighting game ever that doesn't make me rage uncontrollably. Or at all really. Quite the feat Devs, quite the feat.

55 hit Valentine combo ftw /singsongvoice

See ya later fuckers!

 

[The Wykydtron]

You are only at the Capra Demon?
I'd say that you can only truly and completely judge the game when you have beaten Anor Londo, its only by then do you get access to all of the game's features.

The enemies get a lot more interesting than those warriors and pathetic excuse for knights you've been fighting so far.

Also read the flavor text and talk to NPCs all the time, they give a lot of information.

Beat Anor Londo? One does not simply "beat" Anor Londo, my good sir.

One must first take an epic pilgrimage past the Obnoxiously Long Lift, across the Bridge of Wastefulness then to the top of the Giant Fuck Off Stairway, get instakilled by those Infernal Sniper Whores fifty times in a row then, as common social etiquette suggests, you snap the disk in two and offer it as a sacrifice to which ever gods you may or may not believe in.

Also, what flavour text? Cuz I am not looking up the Wiki to find out the basic gist of the storyline. And what information are you talking about? They gibber absolute nonsense half the time! Any meaningful comments (if there are any) are swiftly ignored/forgotten since I want to fucking live for more than two seconds and pondering the mysteries of Dark Souls' story and/or characters during gameplay is the fastest way to getting yourself killed for the fifth billionth time.