I think I'm done

[Karnot]

Thanks for all the replies, people have different reasons. However it is nice to see that others also share the same viewpoint as I have.

I wonder though if the staleness has also something to do with MMO's trying to please all crowds. They try to please almost every type of player and you end up with an MMO that does things OK but excells and pretty much nothing. On the other hand to keep servers up,provide patches, make new content and all the other stuff; you will need a decent amount of players.

I keep wondering though if it would work to downscale an mmo (totaly contradictory), and rather then trying to appeal to almost all players, focusing on more specific things. Like for example focus a game completly on pvp or focus on challenging pve.

You would have to cut certain things of and you would get other things in return. The question is would you still categorize it as an mmo? or would it just be an Action RPG with online capabilities? And the big question is, would it attract enough players to keep everything up and running?

Me quitting an MMO has nothing to do with "challenge." You want a challenge, all you have to do is PuG any non-trivial dungeon.

The problems for me come from lack of balance in PvP, lack of interesting content and interaction in PvP, and no, stupid arena constructed matches don't count. PvE endgame is a joke to me.

I can understand your viewpoint, And from reading you're post you seem like an avid PvP player; if I am correct?
I am more of a PvE player which occasionally partakes in PvP just for the heck of it. Personally I play MMO's for the sense of adventure,exploration and the action. However if there is no danger present and I just wade trough mobs, then the sense of adventure is gone to me and I quickly loose interest. And I just like challenging combat.
But different players have different needs and viewpoints .

 

[ErrrorWayz]

Always wanted to get into an MMO, have bounced off WOW a couple of times, gave Wildstar a look, never got anywhere. I don't have the friend base for it (most people I know console game or are, frankly, too busy being adults ) and I don't have the time to invest. All in all, the closest I got was Diablo, which I am aware is not really an MMO, and even that petered out fairly quickly due to time issues and the fact it just seemed fairly easy (probably us messing about).

 

[ErrrorWayz]

Just thought I'd announce my arrival (and complete incompetence) to the forum with a classic first post, double post routine, sorry!

 

[iseko]

I've always felt that we need to get a few AA studios to take a stab at a modernization of more classic MMORPGs, like Ultima or Ragnarok, where it's more just about setting up a huge open world sandbox and let the players make it function. Those have a much smaller comparative scope, meaning they require less money to do, meaning the devs are free to try for more innovation and uniqueness.

With all MMOs attempting to hit the WoW market, it's making budgets for MMOs shoot into the hundreds of millions, which means they're going to play it as safe and formulaic as possible, which doesn't do the genre any favors.

EVE online. Very niche. Problem is getting into it... The more "open world anything is possible" functionality in a game. The more spread sheet like it becomes.

Plus... you know... the leveling system. It is easy enough but it is LITERALLY impossible to catch up with players who have been playing for 10 years... Plus to do anything in that game you need to have played for about 6months to a year. So yea...

 

[Areloch]

I've always felt that we need to get a few AA studios to take a stab at a modernization of more classic MMORPGs, like Ultima or Ragnarok, where it's more just about setting up a huge open world sandbox and let the players make it function. Those have a much smaller comparative scope, meaning they require less money to do, meaning the devs are free to try for more innovation and uniqueness.

With all MMOs attempting to hit the WoW market, it's making budgets for MMOs shoot into the hundreds of millions, which means they're going to play it as safe and formulaic as possible, which doesn't do the genre any favors.

EVE online. Very niche. Problem is getting into it... The more "open world anything is possible" functionality in a game. The more spread sheet like it becomes.

Plus... you know... the leveling system. It is easy enough but it is LITERALLY impossible to catch up with players who have been playing for 10 years... Plus to do anything in that game you need to have played for about 6months to a year. So yea...

Yeah, to be fair EVE is very much that style, but as you said, kinda becomes Spreadsheets online. I do adore reading all the shenanigans-tastic stories that come out of it though. Wish more mmos would follow the broad strokes of it (with less spreadsheets)

 

[Gottesstrafe]

They need to make an action MMO. Imagine Dark Souls gameplay in an MMO. I wish Dragon's Dogma online came to the west, that game looks neat, since it simply seems to be DD...but an MMO, in terms of gameplay atleast.

I also wonder how an action MMO, again with Dark Souls style gameplay, but no levels. Or I guess Chivalry (though I haven't played it myself, if I am wrong). Everyone always says (as you pointed out) that an MMO doesn't start until you reach max level anyways. Why waste people's time? Just an idea that no one will ever have the guts to try I'm guessing.

There's PSO2, a heavily action-oriented MMO that DOESN'T put cooldowns on dodging and blocking (unlike another certain action MMO). You can basically parry enemies and bosses with melee combat or somersault around them in bullet time and keep enemies suspended in the air with twin submachine gun fire at will like Dante. It's a JP only game unfortunately, but you can still download and play it all the same. It's free to play (not pay to win though, most of the real-money items are cosmetics that can be auctioned for game currency) and PvE only, with a large hub-world lobby and randomized dungeon crawl levels (might want to pass on it if you're into exploring a large open world). Group sizes are on the smaller side, with 12 players max to a level and squad sizes of up to 4. It's also got sliders up the wazoo and tons of cosmetic items if character creation is your bag, robot characters essentially became transformers overnight once customization options were added to the cosmetic items.

There's even a collection of English patches [http://psumods.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=206] that's regularly updated as well as a convenient alternate launcher [http://arks-layer.com/index.php] that's good for keeping track of updates, patches and backups so you don't have to re-download the game from a JP server.

 

[barbzilla]

Themepark killed MMO's for me. I like to see worlds designed to be worlds and have the players dropped in to it, as opposed to having each zone be a 'ride' that takes you from level 5-10, 11-15, etc.

This, I miss Star Wars Galaxies (Pre-CU) so much.

OP:\
Terra isn't too bad, but I got bored with it after a bit. The Secret World is very fun if you skip some of the more repetitive quests and just repeat the ones with a good story to them. I am also okay with The Elder Scrolls online to a degree, but it is picking up the boring feeling to it that most of the WoW like games have. Currently I am playing a game called Gloria Victis that is pretty good, but it is in early beta so it isn't very fleshed out yet. Star Citizen also looks like it may have the right stuff to bring about emergent game play. If you aren't familiar with Emergent Game Play, it is basically where the developers create a world and the players create the gameplay. Sort of like the civil war in SWG, the zone control battles and trade systems in EVE online, and the like.

You may just need to find a different type of MMO than the popular brand of boring kill 10 boars for tusks for the umpteenth time.

 

[DoPo]

Just thought I'd announce my arrival (and complete incompetence) to the forum with a classic first post, double post routine, sorry!

Your username matches your arrival Welcome!

 

[ErrrorWayz]

Just thought I'd announce my arrival (and complete incompetence) to the forum with a classic first post, double post routine, sorry!

Your username matches your arrival Welcome!

Score one for nominative determinism!

 

[omega 616]

I'm just not ok with the end game grind, which is weird since the MMO I have sunk the most time and money into is Runescape ... seriously, took a break from it for like 10 years and I still remember my account info (but only got back into it for about 5 months).

The difference is, in RS, you grind and grind and grind then unlock a new thing.... so chop trees for 100 hours and then you get to chop bigger and better trees with bigger and better axes. In other MMO's you run through the game doing side quests and main quests, like a mass effect or fallout, getting bigger and better armour and guns/swords ... then the grind kicks in and your left running the same quests over and over to get loot to make the next time you do it easier and can make future expansions or quests easier ... and why do you do them? To make further future ones easier...

That's where you lost me, I've done the fun bit and now I'm at the boring bit. I think for all it's faults runescape mixes the boring bit in the fun bit ... grind, grind, grind, fun bit, grind, grind, grind, fun bit but it's not always a new item, it might allow to do new mini games or quests.

Probably why I have stuck with runescape more than destiny haha though I am probably alone on this one

 

[MHR]

Me quitting an MMO has nothing to do with "challenge." You want a challenge, all you have to do is PuG any non-trivial dungeon.

The problems for me come from lack of balance in PvP, lack of interesting content and interaction in PvP, and no, stupid arena constructed matches don't count. PvE endgame is a joke to me.

Personally I play MMO's for the sense of adventure,exploration and the action. However if there is no danger present and I just wade trough mobs, then the sense of adventure is gone to me and I quickly loose interest. And I just like challenging combat.
But different players have different needs and viewpoints .

I play for exploration and adventure and action as well, but maps are only so large, right? What gives them the best types of adventure and action is the threat of random encounters or mischief to be had with other players. You're right, if there's no danger present, and it's just stupid mobs patrolling in circles, it does quickly get old. MMOs work best when it's with other players, whether it's PvE dungeons or PvP. In world PvP you get double the interactions. You interact with enemy players as endless content, and allied players to help you fight some off.

Guild Wars removes most of it's PvP potential by having almost the entire game's map space being PvE only, with some WvW instances being very hard to get right. I'll give GW2 a lot of credit though; they did have extensive exploration content. It takes hours and hours to explore and unlock everything there is in the overworld, and then there were secrets like jumping puzzles, and they had extremely rapid in-game holiday and special events being made all the time. But once you've 100%'d the entire map and have the jumping puzzles on farm, all the game has left for the non-PvE player is the flawed World-vs-World map, and that's why I quit.

High-end Eve Online is almost all PvP to my knowledge. You literally cruise around nearly empty space with about just as much content, but the PvP is what gives it life. High stakes battles with constant risk of losing your very expensive ships, teamwork and guilds to help gather resources and control territory, and there are epics to be written of the strife between groups of players and the politics within their companies. It's maintained a very dedicated niche playerbase with this model.

But good world PvP is very hard to get right.

 

[Raddra]

Everyone mentioning Tera probably hasn't played in ages, let me fill you guys in.

Leveling up is easymode babytier streamline and can be done in a few days.

Classes are gender and race locked to the most popular player choices (which is the little girl race, elin), so if you want new content enjoy rolling an annoying loli in short skirts. Almost zero new male content.

Endgame, which is usually the calling card of MMO's, is deserted with the raids being easy and few.

Teras combat is sick, and pretty enjoyable, but I would whole heartedly recommend waiting for a new MMO if you're actually looking to play one. Tera is dead.

I played that game at release and I did enjoy it, but after a while I sort of dropped out.. dipped back in a few months after it went FTP and it was a completely different game. Those creepy loli little girl characters were everywhere and they were ERPing those little girls in general chat and here and there in local chat when I was exploring.

I reported the offenders, but the damage was done: quit out, uninstalled it and haven't even considered playing it again.

 

[BodomBeachChild]

I've always felt that we need to get a few AA studios to take a stab at a modernization of more classic MMORPGs, like Ultima or Ragnarok, where it's more just about setting up a huge open world sandbox and let the players make it function. Those have a much smaller comparative scope, meaning they require less money to do, meaning the devs are free to try for more innovation and uniqueness.

With all MMOs attempting to hit the WoW market, it's making budgets for MMOs shoot into the hundreds of millions, which means they're going to play it as safe and formulaic as possible, which doesn't do the genre any favors.

EVE online. Very niche. Problem is getting into it... The more "open world anything is possible" functionality in a game. The more spread sheet like it becomes.

Plus... you know... the leveling system. It is easy enough but it is LITERALLY impossible to catch up with players who have been playing for 10 years... Plus to do anything in that game you need to have played for about 6months to a year. So yea...

Dude. Not even close. In 6mo is the time you should start feeling comfy getting stuffed accomplished. Within your first week you should be able to start doing a lot. Secondly, it doesn't matter if you can't catch up to vets. I've been playing 5 years. I play with old and new players all the time. The only difference is experience in game. If you've tried it before and never did much I say get back in it.