If button mashing works, is it bad game design?

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Clashero

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Aug 15, 2008
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Well, I normally blame the player for that.
When my friends come over to play Soul Calibur III, I can beat them 90% of the time, or more, because I understand how the system works. I understand that while moves amongs different characters are different, the same commands usually entail a similar attack (for instance, 44A moves are usually spinning attacks, while 33B is very often a launcher). However, sometimes they'll beat by button mashing because I would spend all round trying to pull off a very fancy combo and failing to their almost completely unpredictable attacks.
 

EzraPound

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Jan 26, 2008
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Recently, however, my sister picked up a controller and managed to button mash me to my death in Soul Calibur III.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but button-mashing in the SC series only works consistently if the person fighting against said masher is less than excellent (which has caused many to wrongfully label the title as a 'button-masher'). I mean, it's not like someone's just going to choose Nightmare and beat you if you know how to block responsively, since you can just school them with well-timed, quick moves. If you're having trouble with newbs, though, try using more quick jabs (whoever has the manual knows the exact name for this move) interspersed with blocks and a fast character.
 

Rock Beefchest

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Dec 20, 2008
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I have gotten beaten by my mom repeatedly at Soul Caliber. Many will say it is because I suck. This is probably true but at least i, unlike my mother have played more than a few games in my life. I think it is bad game design when pressing random buttons as quickly as possible can lead to victory thus creating a viable gaming strategy. Although on the other hand, I have played very talented players that are not ever beaten by such tactics. So it only seems the technique is viable against the average player, like myself.
 

TsunamiWombat

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Sep 6, 2008
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That depends how you define bad. Unimaginative and boring? Perhaps. Intuitive and Lucrative? yes.

Dynasty Warrior's proves, Button Mashing + Murder + Funny hats and crazy beards = Profit
 

Bob_F_It

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May 7, 2008
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Button mashing is an infuriatingly effective tactic used by novices. I had a friend (past tense; there were other things annoying about him too) who thought he was awesome because he would button mash with Taki on Soul Calibur 2. And at my weekly social, half of everyone will button mash me to death. It's one hell of a way to reward a player who'd put some effort into learning how to play the way the developers instructed you.

As a semi-advanced player of SC2 I could personally counter a button basher by taking some distance, and then retaliate with long range attacks, guard impacts and large openings from those moves that take half the round to recover from. My friend who was "that guy" would quite invincibly tear players apart with Mitsurugi and look quite cool doing so. I place a "that guy" in higher regard than a masher because the former uses some skill to beat me.

However, I'm guessing that nobody who dispises button mashing actually does so themselves. Try to look at fighting games from their point of view. You don't know anything at all about how to play this fighting game, but you pick up the controls anyway. "FIGHT" shouts the announcer. What do you do? You have to do something. You start pressing the buttons of course. If you didn't get something out of your efforts, you'd be a bit peeved, especially so if you had stuck a coin into an arcade machine. In the case of an arcade machine, there has to be some reward to even just mashing the buttons.
As for console fighters, there isn't that much help for beginners stuck with mashing. I own SC2, which is why I'm good at it, but not 3 or 4. So when I find that most of the moves that I know are gone (this was thinking that Ivy wouldn't have changed drastically, pfft), I now don't know many moves to pull off. And perhaps I am punished for my objecting to mashing, since I can barely survive by the basic triangles of horizontal-vertical-dodge and attack-block-throw.

Looking at it that way, the blame has to lie with the developer and not the masher. The machinics stand there and reward button mashing, and perhaps purposely too. If you don't own a particular fighting game, the only way you're going to progress your skills beyond mashing is to read a guide somewhere, forgetting what you've read by the time you get back to playing again. You don't get a bunch of friends around to learn how to play a game and hone some skills, you just want to play the thing, and then everyone gets stuck in button mashing as the game doesn't really want to tell you how you could play better.

I suppose the reason why console FPS's are so popular is because everyone knows by just looking at the box that the control scheme has been copy-pasted from Halo.

Idea of the year: Show each player a move from the movelist of their chosen character during the loading screen.
 

Say Anything

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Jan 23, 2008
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EzraPound said:
Recently, however, my sister picked up a controller and managed to button mash me to my death in Soul Calibur III.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but button-mashing in the SC series only works consistently if the person fighting against said masher is less than excellent (which has caused many to wrongfully label the title as a 'button-masher'). I mean, it's not like someone's just going to choose Nightmare and beat you if you know how to block responsively, since you can just school them with well-timed, quick moves. If you're having trouble with newbs, though, try using more quick jabs (whoever has the manual knows the exact name for this move) interspersed with blocks and a fast character.
Yeah, I've mentioned before that I'm really not that great at the genre, I play FPS's and RPG's way more. I'm not good at blocking, I just know my character (in SCIII, Voldo, in Tekken 5, Hwoarang/Christie/Eddie) and I like using juggle launchers to get in combos. I'll bet a more defensive tactic, however, would help fighting button mashers.
 

Art Axiv

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Dec 25, 2008
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Bob_F_It said:
Idea of the year: Show each player a move from the movelist of their chosen character during the loading screen.
Believe it or not, but on the anime conventions in UK [ it was JapanEX in 2007, London ]. They presented the currently in-beta exclusive Naruto fighting game for the XBOX360. They put the move list next to the screen, printed with a large font (about 25). 80% didn't saw the list.
 

Woe Is You

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Jul 5, 2008
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Bob_F_It said:
Idea of the year: Show each player a move from the movelist of their chosen character during the loading screen.
Like this? [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgiMrLOdccg]
 

Mizaki

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Dec 4, 2008
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All fighting games have cheap stuff. And I love fighting games anyway. On Soul Calibur, throws are really cheap, on SNK games you can sit and block then spam super attacks, on the Street Fighter games, just use Akuma, etc. There's also Mitsurugi's existance on SCII. But.. people who use cheap characters or button mash are easy to beat if you just do your normal stuff but faster and with more.. mashiness. I've actually beaten button mashers by just intelligently button mashing. It is possible. It's easy and gets you cool points. :D
 

darktheif28

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Nov 11, 2008
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One: most of you people have taken Yahtzee's words heart and...
Two: what about games like golden axe and streets of rage, you need to mash buttons to even get past the first level.

Also, on fighting games if you couldn't mash buttons how would any moves get done, you would just have a game of nothing but special moves.