If DeSantis wins

[tstorm823]

That is remarkable hypocrisy from a man who weighed in on a discussion about what an insurrection might be without offering any useful comment on what it might be, and here we are umpteen comments later with still precisely nothing.

Literally the only substantial argument you have pursued in the last ~8 posts is that you think everyone who disagrees with you is a liar or an idiot. If you've got nothing useful to say - and on current evidence you do not - let that be your epitaph on the topic.

I'm exceptionally more interested in you talking out both sides of your mouth than a technical definition of insurrection. The 14th amendment section dealing with insurrection was clearly aimed at the confederacy, people who seceded from the United States and engaged in warfare against it. Applying it to anything less than that would be setting a brand new legal precedent, one that would be applied to more people in the future, probably against your wishes.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Which are changeable, and are not inherent or definitive of sex. They just correlate.



They literally can. That's what they did. So, you still apparently believe states can't uphold the constitution.



You can. He didn't, which is why when violence unfolded and he was informed it was happening in his name, he didn't object-- he stood by.

They are inherent to sex.

Then why is the case in Maine put on hold awaiting SCOTUS rule on Colorado case?

And the Beastie Boys were telling people to physically fight for their right to party.

Estimates are that ~2000 people illegally invaded the Capitol, and over 1200 have been charged. So that's thousands as an objective fact.

Thousands didn't assault the Capitol. You're gonna argue Siaka Massaquoi that got charged, assaulted the Capitol?

 

[Ag3ma]

Thousands didn't assault the Capitol.

Yes, I know what you are getting at, and it is bullshit.

If you're part of the force, you're part of the fight irrespective of whether you get the opportunity to swing a baton or pull down a barricade.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Yes, I know what you are getting at, and it is bullshit.

If you're part of the force, you're part of the fight irrespective of whether you get the opportunity to swing a baton or pull down a barricade.

Then arrest everyone at a BLM "protest".

 

[Ag3ma]

Then arrest everyone at a BLM "protest".

And that's not quite the same thing either.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

And that's not quite the same thing either.

If any sorta of violence/assault happens at a protest, march, gathering, etc, then everyone has to be arrested according to what you said about January 6th. Then, you have to apply that to everything else. You can't pick and choose.

 

[Ag3ma]

If any sorta of violence/assault happens at a protest, march, gathering, etc, then everyone has to be arrested according to what you said about January 6th. Then, you have to apply that to everything else. You can't pick and choose.

Depends. If you've got a march of 100,000 people and a bunch of 500 split off and trash a bank, I don't think you can prosecute the entire 100,000 for the trashed bank.

If of those 500 who trashed the bank only 100 actually threw bricks at the windows, I think you can make a case to prosecute all 500.

 

[Kwak]

Then arrest everyone at a BLM "protest".

And there it is.

 

[XsjadoBlaydette]

K as someone who was - perhaps obsessively - keeping up with many Maga influencers, communities and accounts for the few years before the capital attack, they were nearly always talking about violence and retribution every fucking damn day. It was commonly predicted something like that would happen eventually, cause they wouldn't shut up about it, actually getting crazier and angrier every new day their wishes were not being as fulfilled as they wanted them to be by trump, and projecting it entirely onto the democrats and what they call "rhinos" selling out to the democrats whilst being fed confirmation bias from the information laundering process we now internationally see as qanon/cult conspiratorial infosystems

Again, it cannot be overstated how omnipresent and intense the brewing anger and thirst for revenge against these Illuminati pedo villains was: it was like a constant knife-edge anticipation that something's going to kick off somewhere, especially in the preceding 2 years, cause, like I said...they openly reveled in violence as their end goal every damn day. Ppl monitoring it all were regularly trying to warn others and authorities with little observable success, I tried also but am just too insignificant and annoying to contribute positively in any meaningful way. From the uncensored 4-8chan freaks to the poorly-moderated main social media wine-mums paranoid about mexican child traffickers kidnapping their own family if they happen to take too long buying some vodka n cigs at the local store, it was crystal clear what motives were getting the most traction and growth, it's literally recorded history on the internet (aside the deleted accounts and whatnot) for anyone to go look whenever they want. But phoenix has no interest in learning, understanding, reading or challenging themselves, they seek only to feed their misplaced pride.

Isn't all bad though, at least I got to see live footage of a maga real-estate mum who flew in on a private jet (working class what now?) talking up a load of aggressive maga vengeance game to her audience as she recorded herself going in to the capitol fray, only to change her tune completely and run off tail betwix legs once the reality of tear gas reached her eyeballs.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Depends. If you've got a march of 100,000 people and a bunch of 500 split off and trash a bank, I don't think you can prosecute the entire 100,000 for the trashed bank.

If of those 500 who trashed the bank only 100 actually threw bricks at the windows, I think you can make a case to prosecute all 500.

If those 500 actually did something that involved trashing the bank, then sure. You have people like Siaka Massaquoi that did nothing getting charged and taken away from their families for no reason. Hence, there wasn't thousands of people assaulting the Capitol.

And there it is.

What is? There's tons of people that committed much worse crimes during BLM that never got charged. Everyone should be charged equally for the crimes they commit. BLM literally took over a portion of a city for nearly a month. If I had to rank which was worse between CHAZ/CHOP or January 6th, it would be the former easily.

K as someone who was - perhaps obsessively - keeping up with many Maga influencers, communities and accounts for the few years before the capital attack, they were nearly always talking about violence and retribution every fucking damn day. It was commonly predicted something like that would happen eventually, cause they wouldn't shut up about it, actually getting crazier and angrier every new day their wishes were not being as fulfilled as they wanted them to be by trump, and projecting it entirely onto the democrats and what they call "rhinos" selling out to the democrats whilst being fed confirmation bias from the information laundering process we now internationally see as qanon/cult conspiratorial infosystems

Again, it cannot be overstated how omnipresent and intense the brewing anger and thirst for revenge against these Illuminati pedo villains was: it was like a constant knife-edge anticipation that something's going to kick off somewhere, especially in the preceding 2 years, cause, like I said...they openly reveled in violence as their end goal every damn day. Ppl monitoring it all were regularly trying to warn others and authorities with little observable success, I tried also but am just too insignificant and annoying to contribute positively in any meaningful way. From the uncensored 4-8chan freaks to the poorly-moderated main social media wine-mums paranoid about mexican child traffickers kidnapping their own family if they happen to take too long buying some vodka n cigs at the local store, it was crystal clear what motives were getting the most traction and growth, it's literally recorded history on the internet (aside the deleted accounts and whatnot) for anyone to go look whenever they want. But phoenix has no interest in learning, understanding, reading or challenging themselves, they seek only to feed their misplaced pride.

And what did they do that was an actual crime? That's what I care about, this isn't Minority Report where you can get arrested for talking/thinking about doing something. What had more total crime/violence committed; January 6th or BLM protests?

 

[Ag3ma]

You have people like Siaka Massaquoi that did nothing getting charged and taken away from their families for no reason. Hence, there wasn't thousands of people assaulting the Capitol.

Siaka Massaquoi entered the Capitol illegally, and so is prosecutable under any circumstance. He and many others who did so exploited the violence of their compatriots to gain entry, and so made themselves complicit in that violence.

 

[Gordon_4]

Siaka Massaquoi entered the Capitol illegally, and so is prosecutable under any circumstance. He and many others who did so exploited the violence of their compatriots to gain entry, and so made themselves complicit in that violence.

Plus even if they didn’t do any actual violence, entering a restricted government building is in and of itself an offence in most places.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Siaka Massaquoi entered the Capitol illegally, and so is prosecutable under any circumstance. He and many others who did so exploited the violence of their compatriots to gain entry, and so made themselves complicit in that violence.

If he did something illegally, then why wasn't he actually convicted of doing anything illegal?

 

[Ag3ma]

If he did something illegally, then why wasn't he actually convicted of doing anything illegal?

Honestly, I couldn't give a shit.

Damned if I know why you think I should have to make your argument for you, doing all the work finding out about random nobodies and predicting what point you're trying to make. That's your job. So either construct a proper explanation and argument or stop bothering me.

 

[Silvanus]

They are inherent to sex.

Odd, then, that it's perfectly possible for people to lack the superficial or visual traits of their biological sex, or to have the ones associated with the opposite sex.

Then why is the case in Maine put on hold awaiting SCOTUS rule on Colorado case?

Because many states have similar legal frameworks-- sometimes identical in respects. So a legal precedence in one state can be relevant in another.

And the Beastie Boys were telling people to physically fight for their right to party.

If people had followed their advice and started actual lethal fights, and then the Beastie Boys had sat back and watched approvingly, then they would indeed be partially responsible.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Honestly, I couldn't give a shit.

Damned if I know why you think I should have to make your argument for you, doing all the work finding out about random nobodies and predicting what point you're trying to make. That's your job. So either construct a proper explanation and argument or stop bothering me.

The point is that because thousands were charged doesn't mean thousands assaulted the Capitol.

Odd, then, that it's perfectly possible for people to lack the superficial or visual traits of their biological sex, or to have the ones associated with the opposite sex.



Because many states have similar legal frameworks-- sometimes identical in respects. So a legal precedence in one state can be relevant in another.



If people had followed their advice and started actual lethal fights, and then the Beastie Boys had sat back and watched approvingly, then they would indeed be partially responsible.

Only in very odd circumstances.

It's not on hold for state precedent in Colorado, it's on hold for federal court to decide and make it federal precedent. Completely different. Just admit when you're wrong.

No they wouldn't, do you not understand how something is determined to actually be a crime?

 

[Ag3ma]

The point is that because thousands were charged doesn't mean thousands assaulted the Capitol.

If you want to argue that fewer than a thousand directly carried out acts of physical violence, I could agree with that.

 

[Silvanus]

Only in very odd circumstances.

Androgyny isn't that uncommon. Though even if it was-- why does rarity matter? Still shows the flaw in insisting that sex = appearance.

It's not on hold for state precedent in Colorado, it's on hold for federal court to decide and make it federal precedent. Completely different. Just admit when you're wrong.

I think you may have forgotten why you originally brought this up. You originally seemed to be saying that States courts can't rule on federal law. If this case is going to get appealed into federal court anyway, what relevance does it have? That just shows that federal court takes precedence over state court, which we all already knew.

No they wouldn't, do you not understand how something is determined to actually be a crime?

Yep: legislation is passed to criminalise an action, then if there are grey areas, courts will set precedent on how to navigate those areas.

So, the Americans already have insurrection and incitement to violence on the statute books. Then there's this apparent "grey area" about whether or not this incident counts. Hence why I want it tried. But... Trump's defenders seemingly don't.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

If you want to argue that fewer than a thousand directly carried out acts of physical violence, I could agree with that.

I don't know the number, but I know it ain't a thousand people. It's just an exaggeration that makes people act like January 6th was worse than it was.

Androgyny isn't that uncommon. Though even if it was-- why does rarity matter? Still shows the flaw in insisting that sex = appearance.



I think you may have forgotten why you originally brought this up. You originally seemed to be saying that States courts can't rule on federal law. If this case is going to get appealed into federal court anyway, what relevance does it have? That just shows that federal court takes precedence over state court, which we all already knew.



Yep: legislation is passed to criminalise an action, then if there are grey areas, courts will set precedent on how to navigate those areas.

So, the Americans already have insurrection and incitement to violence on the statute books. Then there's this apparent "grey area" about whether or not this incident counts. Hence why I want it tried. But... Trump's defenders seemingly don't.

For like the millionth time, I didn't say sex = appearance, I said said people use appearance to figure out sex.

The question of if the 14th amendment bars Trump from being president is a federal question, not a state question. Once the feds determine the answer, states have to apply that ruling.

Beastie Boys wouldn't be charged for anything if people actually started fighting for their right to party.

 

[Ag3ma]

I don't know the number, but I know it ain't a thousand people. It's just an exaggeration that makes people act like January 6th was worse than it was.

How much worse does it need to be than a mob storming the Capitol during the election of the president, having been whipped up by a deliberate campaign of lies?