I'm beginning to hate Valve.

[Chemical Alia]

I can't think of a single studio that would release information about a game before they feel they're ready to. What you have to understand is that their financial success puts them in a position that very few other game studios have, which is to produce games at their own pace/schedule, and to start, rework or even outright cancel games as they see fit. That's a luxury very few other studios even come close to having.

Personally, I don't mind waiting at all. They have high expectations to live up to, there's a console generation transition period right now, and they'll release the game when it's the product they're happy with. And I have no doubt it'll be awesome when they do.

 

[GAunderrated]

There's something seriously wrong with your world view if you think this is a big deal. The worst thing Valve have done is not yet release a video game. What kind of sheltered existence must you lead to be emotional, even hateful, about something like that? Gain some perspective.

You know what might have been worth getting upset over? If you'd put money down five years ago and still had nothing to show for it. That didn't happen. You haven't given Valve any money; they don't owe you anything. You haven't lost out by them not releasing this game.

It's posts like this that really make me wish the escapist had a rep function because you deserve a giant +.

If someone is hating on valve for not releasing a game when all the other big publishers and developers are plotting ways to screw you out of your money with always on DRM, Day1 DLC, and lovely microtransactions then you really do need to gain some perspective.

 

[GAunderrated]

I used to be pro Valve but have just gotten sick of them as of late.

#1 They stopped making the games I like, too many MP focused games and not enough SP games I like. Also I agree that HL3 is a fricking joke, it's one thing to not hype a game, but it's another to keep gamers in dark not knowing what the hell is going on. This blind faith in a delayed game = quaity will backfire in fans faces as when HL3 finally does come out there is going to be alot of massively disappointed ppl who hate the changes made or not made from HL2 gameplay. Time doesn't automatically equal quality when we have had ACM, Duke Nukem Forever and Diablo 3 which had much of the mechanics thrown out in beta. Infact it wouldn't surprise me if the current build of HL3 looks like DNF with a miss mash old old and new content.

#2 Greenlight has made it so I rarely buy indies from Steam nowadays as not a single game I've voted for has made it. Before Greenlight a good varied selection of games made it to steam, but nowadays Steam has grown more into this platform for Johnny come lately indies gamers, In the past it used to be just XBLA timed exclusives like FEZ and Dust but now the same is happening with PC indie game as games are on other PC stores for ages while on Steam the game is stuck on Greenlight. This has prompted me to buy my games from elsewhere rather than sit and twiddle my thumbs wondering if the game I want will win the digital equivalent of the X factor (which won't happen as I have niche tastes and don't give a hoot about trends and gimmicks).

#3 Imo Valve has gotten too big for it's boots and should be whipped into shape, but sadly most PC gamers are so in love with Valve and Steam that most criticism is white knighted or ignored. Yeah Valve "saved" PC gaming but that doesn't mean they're 100% infallible.

#4 Selling "Alpha" builds on Steam is BS

You know you can still love a company but still admit that they are not perfect. Everything isn't black or white where you have to be in one camp or another. So generalizing anyone who likes steam as thinking they are "infallible" is very short sighted.

I love steam but I will freely admit that steam doesn't have to try as hard as they used too (the last x-mas sale proved that) and that they do have some issues.

2. No one is happy with greenlight in its current state. Even the most hardcore fans know that system needs to be reworked. I don't buy that many indie games on steam anymore but I do buy it from their competitors and still play it on steam (amazon, Greenmangaming, indiegala).

4. This is my biggest gripe with steam after The War Z Scam. However, all it did was teach me to research games and not buy them on impulse even if they are indie games that my friends recommend.

 

[already in use]

The next half life game hasnt been announced yet
and valve has no obligation to deliver it in anything but their
own time. Maybe they are tired of making another sequel to their aging
franchise and make a cover based shooter instead, who knows? .
Its not like half like has a story of an epic scope that has to go on to not loose momentum,
just well rounded shooters with some weird vehicles sections in retroperspective.
Half life 3 or whatever is most likely gonna be announced sometime this decade
and then come out shortly after, no use waiting for it to happen.

 

[aguspal]

Valve are just kinda lucky IMO.


They had a strong streak of luck with stuff like Steam. I would like to see them without it.

Either way yes, they are overrated, but they are okey. They make good games, the few they make... Althougt I dont really like the time they take to make them. Its a bit ridiculous at times.

 

[Amir Kondori]

You weren't lied to. They tried the episodic thing and it didn't work out they way they thought it would. If you google you can find a quote where they said they were going to abandon the idea of quicker episodic releases and make Episode three a full length game.
That is why people love Valve, because they are willing to try new things and also willing to admit when those things don't work out and abandon them.
Valve hasn't "lied" about Episode three. Really I just can't believe how pissy people get about this STILL. Go play some other games. Don't buy Valve games. Moaning about it and talking about how they "lied to us gamers" is just petty and does not cast you in a good light.

 

[Amir Kondori]

They're a big, amoral company that cares about the bottom line and nothing else. I'm not really sure why you'd hold them to an inherently higher standard than, say, EA in the first place.

(Not that EA isn't demonstrably a worse company, but they're different quality grades of the same cheese, not different animals altogether.)

I actually have to disagree with you. While they are a company that cares about the bottom line I think a lot of time people confuse private and public companies. Public companies, by their very nature, have to pursue the bottom line. They have a duty to their shareholders to do so and if they do not the board will remove the people in charge and put in others who will maximize profits in whatever legal ways possible.

A private company can decide to give up short term gains if they think it will lead to long term benefits, like customer trust. Valve has demonstrated time and time again that they will give up short term profits to retain customer's trust. They have one of the best support records in the industry, and easily are first among companies of their size. They have had offers to be bought out as well but Gabe Newell as been very vocal about his desire to break up the company before seeing it bought up by a public company.

People love Valve because despite being a private company they have put a high value on consumer trust. That is a very rare thing in today's gaming industry.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

Don't bother OP, a fairly large portion of this forum is convinced that Valve is perfect (or damn close) I know from experience that daring to criticize Valve just results in a valve worship circle jerk.

I'd say if the criticism wasn't completely ridiculous and the thread titles weren't so obviously inciting (which of course is a rarity on the escapist for some unexplained reason) then the threads would go more smoothly.

Yes, you might have people who are convinced Valve is the 2nd coming of Christ. You might get apologists who will try to argue that Steam has always been good.

But when you get people going:

"Why do people hate EA's microtransactions but tolerate Valve's?" (ignoring the fact that the circumstances are pretty damn different)
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.408107-Why-do-People-love-Valve-so-much?page=1
or in this case

"Valve hasn't released their episodic content as scheduled, they lied! Why do they get a free pass but Bioware and Gearbox don't."

It's a bit hard to take seriously. Even for someone who doesn't think Valve's products are the holy grail.

 

[major_chaos]

"Why do people hate EA's microtransactions but tolerate Valve's?"
It's a bit hard to take seriously.

Sure seems like a legit question to me. On of the many things on my Valve hate list is the fact that they get little to no flack for things that would get any other publisher crucified, and if any justification for this is given it normaly boils down to "we trust them" which I find absurd simply because Valve has never done anything that makes me understand why they are so inherently trustworthy.

 

[lacktheknack]

I fail to see how them basically pulling a early-stage Duke Nukem Forever on us (minus the fact that Duke Nukem Forever actually had release dates, whereas Half Life (2: Episode) 3 never did) somehow makes them worth hating in the face of Steam, Portal 2, Team Fortress 2, Aliem Swarm, etc.

Of all the actually valid complaints you could run with, you chose this?

I understand your point perfectly, OP... it's just a really dumb and petty point, and I think you could do with more conflict and/or goals to work for in your life if "taking a long time" causes you to hate a company.

 

[Proverbial Jon]

So tell me, just how do you get an "air of superiority and entitlement" from a company you supposedly hear nothing from? Hmm?

Valve have so many projects on the go at once, they have to maintain Steam (possibly the biggest and most successful online distributor of video games) as well as develop various entries in their various franchises. Half Life is their flag ship title, just give them some time. Quite frankly, as far as I'm concerned, they can be as entitled as they like so long as the game's good when we get it.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip.

You forgot to mention how they openly mock the notion of coming out with HL3 from time to time.

But seriously, I guess I'm not enough of a "hardcore gamer" to bend over and present myself for Valve, to be quite honest the ony Valve games I've ever played are Portals 1 and 2 and L4D 1 and 2. I don't know what all the hub-bub is about this so-called "Half Life" and why it's apparently the sexiest thing since sex. All I know is that like Duke Nukem Forever, people have been waiting forever for the new HL game to come out.

That being said, from my understanding Valve as a company does so many things right - apparently Steam, not Half Life, is actually the sexiest thing since sex - that people are willing to forgive them for not coming out with that fantasy game known as Half Life 3 or Half Lie 2 Episode 7 or whatever it is that people are waiting for. Where as EA seems to be actively trying to piss off its consumer base with every decision it makes (at least they're pulling the Online Passes), Valve seems to do a lot of things to reward customer loyalty, they seem to like keeping their consumer base happy.

Sure, the Half Life deal is, from my understanding, the big 2-ton pink elephant sitting on an opera singer in the corner of the room, but the "good grades" in customer satisfaction due to all the other stuff they offer/do apparently makes up for it.

 

[Overusedname]

There's a moment in Bioshock Infinite I just played WAIT IT'S NOT A SPOILER COME BACK.

*ahem*, anyway, a man getting his shoes shined is raving on and on about how his architect is taking far to long to complete his renovations. "It's been months, and the mongolias arn't even in yet! He's only half done with the pavilion, the statuary hasn't arrived yet,' etc.

And it made me think about the small but loud outcry when Infinite delayed it's release. And the fact that artists and entertainers are always so pressured to complete work that takes a long time to make. Oft by folks that don't fully understand how long it takes to do the task at hand, or that other matters may have come up. I'm not saying I don't question Valve's work ethic from time to time. But they deliver results, they produce quality.

People also defend Miyamoto in a similar way. Pikmin and a REAL new Mario are on there way, but they're meticulously designed in everyway to provide a new, easy to learn and hard to master experience that raises the bar a little more each time.

People don't defend EA the same way because they rush their workers, disrespect the artists, writers and programmers and close studios daily. They don't take their time. Gamers don't defend Bethesda for similar reasons, though at least they can produce results sometimes.

It's a matter of faith. People know that some designers deserve more faith than others.

 

[Vigormortis]

snipped for space considerations

I believe our opinions, at least in regard to the topic at hand, are in alignment.

Game development studios and publishers (at least most of them) have learned that one of the last things you want to do when you start a project, or even when deep into the production of a title, is to openly show it off before it's close to a finalized build. I mean, God forbid you showcase blue trees in an alpha build and change them to orange ones in the final build. Gamers would lose their minds.

Especially in todays gamer culture. If there's one thing we've all learned it's that gamers today not only hype themselves* into unrealistic levels of anticipation and expectation, but they're willing to react harshly if those expectations aren't met. Some going so far as to seek legal action.

[sub]* This is a systemic issue. The industry overhypes the products just as much as the fans do.[/sub]

I've been anticipating the next installment of Half-Life just as long as anyone else. I've been a fan of the series since 1998. Even so, I'll be the first to tell people to just relax, learn some patience, and wait. Valve IS working on the game. That much has become apparent from several statements made by Newell and others in recent years. So everyone chill. The game will release when they're done coding it and are satisfied with it's level of quality. In the mean time, there are thousands of other games to play.

snipped for space considerations

You'll see that a lot in these kinds of threads. Someone will start things off with petty complaints or ludicrous claims based on misinformation or opinion, oft times questioning how anyone could possibly like the company and it's products.

Following that you'll occasionally see a poster come in and defend any-and-everything pertaining to Valve with extreme fervor. However, the majority of the posts will be calm, level-headed responses; responses that often poke holes in the ridiculous arguments and claims being levied by the OP. And, these same responses are made by Valve fans and non-fans alike.

But then, you'll start to see people, like the one you quoted, who come in with more petty complaints, misinformation, and personal attacks on anyone that disagrees with them. These types of posts often greatly (ironically) outnumber the illogical, fervent defense posts.

Somewhere along the way a lot of people around here forgot that differing opinions aren't something to chastise others over.

snipped for space considerations

Even worse, when some people actually do bring genuine, quantifiable, legitimate complaints to the discussion, their posts are quickly lost to the flood of nonsense claims and exaggeration.

For every poster that brings up something like, for example, Steams lack of certain currency conversions, you'll see three or four dozen people whining about Steam's "monopoly" or claiming Valve "hasn't made a game since Half-Life 2".

Come on people! There is plenty to discuss in regards to things Valve needs to fix or address. You really, REALLY don't need to sit around making shit up. It does no one any good.

 

[Frostbite3789]

So I'm a big Valve cautionary, but I think anything more extreme than cautious approval is probably going to far.

The second part of your statement makes the first part of your statement untrue. Sorry to tell you.

 

[Lovely Mixture]

"Why do people hate EA's microtransactions but tolerate Valve's?"
It's a bit hard to take seriously.

Sure seems like a legit question to me. On of the many things on my Valve hate list is the fact that they get little to no flack for things that would get any other publisher crucified, and if any justification for this is given it normaly boils down to "we trust them" which I find absurd simply because Valve has never done anything that makes me understand why they are so inherently trustworthy.

I edited my post for clarification on that issue.

On the other hand, I do think differential treatment of Origin and Steam should be discussed seriously.

 

[Cecilo]

"Why do people hate EA's microtransactions but tolerate Valve's?"
It's a bit hard to take seriously.

Sure seems like a legit question to me. On of the many things on my Valve hate list is the fact that they get little to no flack for things that would get any other publisher crucified, and if any justification for this is given it normaly boils down to "we trust them" which I find absurd simply because Valve has never done anything that makes me understand why they are so inherently trustworthy.

Because they gave me Team Fortress 2 and DOTA 2 for free. They make up that money (That other companies charge me 40-60 dollars for), in micro transactions. Where as EA goes "Okay. here is a 60 dollar game with 20 more dollars of content cut from it that we want you to pay for now" Valve has not done that. They gave me a free game, and an OPTION to buy more content, that if I dont want to pay for. I CAN JUST PLAY TO GET.

Team Fortress and DOTA 2 - Random Drops. So. No. It isn't comparable because I got the base game and the content for free. And I can earn the Micro transaction content FOR FREE. Except Chests. You have to pay for keys.

Beyond that, they give me great sales twice a year. I can save 20-40 dollars on a game I want to buy. If I see a game with a lot of DLC for it. I wait for it to go on sale. Then buy the DLC. They have made purchasing PC Games convenient, and enjoyable. And Sure.. It is DRM. But it isn't inconvenient DRM, it is a DRM that rewards me for using it rather than being a big monster in the corner. Looking over my shoulder and smashing my head into my desk if I dare do something it doesn't like.

And Finally, Yea, a lot of people decryed Origin, some because of the "EA IS SPYING ON US". But I think a lot of people saw it as a "I'm taking my ball and starting my own game over there, and you cant join", when they pulled recently released games from steam, and stuck it on Origin. Steam if nothing else, doesn't do that, they don't force exclusivity on those who use steam.

 

[Lightknight]

I hate the way they give me great deals on great (and not great) games.

It's terrible how now all my games are conveniently located in one location that allows me to install it anywhere in the world without a disk.

My life is so much sadder for having been allowed to enjoy Half Life, Portal, Counter Strike, Left 4 Dead and Team fortress.

It sure makes me hungry angry when I think of all the wonderful games that have been allowed to use the Source engine

Joking aside, you don't hate a company for not putting things out. You begin to forget a company for that. I do really wish that Valve would start releasing more games. But since that's not what they're doing, I'm just happy they're doing so much good for the gaming community. They've certainly revolutionized how I get games.

Sure seems like a legit question to me. On of the many things on my Valve hate list is the fact that they get little to no flack for things that would get any other publisher crucified, and if any justification for this is given it normally boils down to "we trust them" which I find absurd simply because Valve has never done anything that makes me understand why they are so inherently trustworthy.

It isn't that they've never done anything that makes them inherently trustworthy. I mean, we've never had the opportunity so see them roll up to the scene of an armored car crash and then get out to help the guards collect the cash.

No, what it is is that they've had the opportunity, time and again, to do everything that EA has done and more. Instead, they provide a top notch service and do a great job supporting their games and even provide us with the means to mod a lot of their stuff for extended enjoyment. When comparing them to EA it's a no brainer. We see two companies that have had a similar degree of control over the customers who have both taken very different routes (granted, "so far").

Question, do you have a few examples of actions they've taken that other publishers would be crucified for?

 

[Callate]

Amidst all the chest-thumping, I'd like to make one small point:

Activision has around 7,000 employees.

EA has over 9,000. (Not a DBZ reference, just happens to be so.)

Valve? Around 400.

...Yeah.

So, yes, I'd like for them to be more up-front about what they're doing; I'd sure like it if they got something Half-Life related out of the pan. But on the other hand, they're making world-class games and keeping the most popular digital games marketplace cranking 24/7 with a roster that looks like a skeleton crew compared to most of their neighbors; I'm prepared to cut them a little slack.

 

[BrotherRool]

So I'm a big Valve cautionary, but I think anything more extreme than cautious approval is probably going to far.

The second part of your statement makes the first part of your statement untrue. Sorry to tell you.

I think people get so weirdly hyped up about Valve that a small nod of approval really is a big step in the other direction. And considering the quality of games they've produced and the way they manage and pay their staff and especially their relationship to the modding community, steps into the actual negative (except when Steam related) aren't well founded